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Obamacare: The New Terrifying Truth You Must See to Believe

obama-shockedYesterday was like most any other day.  I woke up, let my dog out, made some coffee then opened up my laptop to see what was going on in the world.  And I must tell you, I was completely and utterly “shocked.”

Did you know the HealthCare.gov website isn’t fully working?  Holy crap!  How could I have missed the multiple press conferences; pointless hearings; endless blogs; op-eds; news reports and blowhard outrage about it?  Apparently, for many Americans, HealthCare.gov hasn’t worked correctly since it opened on October 1.

Just—stunning.  I do recall hearing about these issues just over a month ago, but color me shocked that over a month later every major media outlet continues to report the same exact headline, even though the Obama administration said it wouldn’t be until the end of November before the website was going to be working.

I guess we need near constant updates from every major media entity to remind Americans multiple times per day that the HealthCare.gov website still isn’t working.  If Americans weren’t told this news numerous times per day — every day — what would we do?

And even worse, did you hear millions upon millions of Americans are receiving cancellation notices from their insurance companies?  Who cares that for 95% of Americans their insurance plans will remain exactly the same or get better and that millions of Americans have access to health care (some for the first time) thanks to the Affordable Care Act.  Ain’t nobody got time for that!  Five percent of Americans are eventually going to have to purchase more comprehensive health insurance.

It’s a pure travesty.

I’m sure glad there’s a “new” story every night on almost every major network showcasing another American that had their plan cancelled, is paying more—or both.  I guess we should probably hear from the 95% of Americans who haven’t had their insurance cancelled, or the millions who are paying less, but seriously—who cares about them, right?

And here’s some breaking news:  Attention Americans, be aware that politicians often exaggerate and sometimes even lie.

It’s a precedent apparently set by President Obama.  You see, before he failed to mention that only 95% of Americans would be able to keep their current health insurance, no other politician in the history of the United States had ever not been completely honest.

After all the weapons of mass destruction we found in Iraq and how the massive tax cuts passed in the early 2000′s balanced our budget, I guess the American people were spoiled by such political honesty.

I’m simply relieved that that our media has chosen to continually report on the same exact story night after night, otherwise Americans might not be aware of the same exact issues that they were just told about yesterday and will be told again tomorrow.

But if they simply reword the headline, it’s a brand new story, right?

If this article seems absurd, it’s because it was meant to be.  The media coverage of the issues surrounding the Affordable Care Act has been ridiculous.

Where are the stories of the millions of people who are paying less for health insurance?  Where are the people who have successfully purchased health insurance for the first time in their lives?  What about the thousands who’ve gotten coverage through the Medicaid expansions and the millions who won’t have access to health insurance because Republicans have refused to expand Medicaid coverage in their states?

See, none of those are “sexy” stories.  They don’t get the “shock value” that stories about the HealthCare.gov website issues generate.

For me, the coverage of “Obamacare” defines the phrase “beating a dead horse.”  Not that the Affordable Care Act is a dead horse, but that the issues that have plagued the rollout have been reported on plenty of times—for weeks.  The website is being worked on and President Obama has said that he’s extending the deadline for insurance plans to meet the ACA requirements for at least another year.

And don’t even call me biased on this issue.  I’ve been an open critic of the way the rollout of Obamacare has gone thus far.  I’ve called it an absolute embarrassment and a disaster that solely rests on the shoulders of President Obama and his administration.

That being said, the media coverage has massively overblown the issues for the sake of ratings.  Yes, the website’s failures are inexcusable, but the administration has said they’re being addressed and should be mostly fixed by the end of November.  What good does it do to continue pounding on the fact that the website isn’t working (yet) when that situation has been addressed and a plan has been laid out to solve those issues?

The cancellation of insurance policies, however, has been greatly exaggerated.  If I didn’t know any better, I’d believe that the majority of Americans are losing their health insurance.  Which isn’t even remotely factual.

In fact, I’m willing to bet that the refusal by most Republican state legislatures to expand Medicaid coverage has negatively impacted far more Americans than the cancellation of substandard plans has.  But outside of the “liberal media” you don’t hear much about that, do you?

Now I’m not saying as new developments come to light that there shouldn’t be stories written, but 6,340 takes on why the HealthCare.gov issues are inexcusable is far from necessary.  I think just about every American agrees that the website issues are embarrassing—we get it.

And like I said, if these media outlets want to report on the bad, then they should be reporting on the good.  But they’re not.  Because feel good stories don’t drive “hits” and traffic like anger, fear and paranoia do.

Trust me, I’m in this business.  I see the stats and the viewing trends.  Fear, anger and irrational knee-jerk emotions are what many of these sites feed off of.

However, Republicans shouldn’t be celebrating these issues either.  Their numbers aren’t going up.  It isn’t as if they are suddenly the representatives of “mainstream” Americans.  The “trust level” of President Obama and Democrats is simply lower—closer to the level of Republicans.

Besides, it isn’t as if Republicans have been honest about “Obamacare.”  They said it would kill job creation and hurt our economy — it hasn’t.  They said it was a socialized takeover of our health care industry — it isn’t.  Many said it would create death panels and require mandatory microchipping — both completely absurd claims.  President Obama might have exaggerated his claim about a part of the Affordable Care Act, but conservatives have blatantly lied about it for years.

Because trust me, once this all settles down (and it will), the American people will still be well aware of just how ridiculous Republicans really are.

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Allen Clifton is from the Dallas-Fort Worth area and has a degree in Political Science. He is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on both Twitter and Facebook. Have feedback, compliments, criticism or hate mail? You can email him as well.
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  • Dan Q. Public

    While the constant repetition of the ACA faux horror stories may be partially to generate higher ratings, this negative coverage is more likely a reflection of the intentions of the Conservatives that seem to own virtually all of the media.

    • TheStupidItBurns

      You seem to have forgotten to add “Conservatives that own virtually all of the (liberal) media”

      • socialmedic

        Lets call it corporate media, the co-opting of the nations government by corporations, in other words, FASCISM, and bloody corrupt fascist propaganda. When the Republicans decimated the fairness doctrine it was for the explicit purpose of infiltrating the media with incessant right wing propaganda, it was not, as Faux news pretends to present “fair and balanced” information. Well maybe there is a bright side, with so much time on their hands maybe the unemployed will find time to read a book and learn what these terms really man.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Yup, they be corporations. News outlets are now cost centers and they’ll report what the corporate masters tell them to report.

      • Robyn Ryan

        Actually, it’s a reeducation campaign. They use corporate produced propaganda to misinform low-information voters. Our local station ran the Chicken Little stories after a black misinformation campaign about the joys of fracking (NBC). I’m noticing that most ‘news’ is lessons in proper behavior and social expectations.

        Interestingly, our local station is pushing back. They ran the corporate plug for shopping as a pilgrimage, but then gave equal time to a local.warning about guilt spending.

      • strayaway

        The Fairness Doctrine was an attack on the 1st Amendment which says that “Congress shall make no law…abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press…”

        “NO LAW” means that-
        Fox and MSNBC, Rachel and Rush, and third party voices can say and print what they wish. That is “fair and balanced”.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        yep— when U add all of it it is fair and balanced: NOW———— care to edify all of us stoooopid human as to how and why FOX ” news” considers ITSELF to be FAIR AND BALANCED?????

      • strayaway

        I don’t think any the news sources I mentioned are fair and balanced. Listen to a bit of each to get your balance. Don’t stop there. Everything from unions to religious groups to Al Jazeera to RT has insights and news to offer. If we just had one source or the other, we would be like North Korea. I’ve even learned a few things from commenters on this site.

      • Robyn Ryan

        Broadcast channels are licensed by the FCC. because bandwidth is a commonly held asset. Cable began as a way to view television without commercials. Your cable bill supported the ‘no ads’ policy. now we get the same ads a broadcast, and we still pay for access.

      • strayaway

        I don’t have a cable bill but I agree that cable was promoted as being ad free. That was what the cable fee was supposed to be for. It like when throwaway bottle were introduced. They were more expensive but, we were told, it was worth it because we didn’t have to bring bottles back to the store.

      • Jack Hoft

        There is a significant difference between Free Speech, and Free Press, this is why they each got their own amendment. Press is defined differently than Speech, and has different rules.

      • strayaway

        Wrong. ‘Speech’ and ‘press’ are found four words apart in the First Amendment. Congress can’t make any laws, zero, nada, abridging either freedom

      • Jack Hoft

        that may be so yet they still bear individual mention because they are not the same thing. Press, the publication of news and societaly important bullitens, absolutely has to be fact based…the spin is inevitable, but the Facts have to check or you are not press, you are a street preacher with a syndication logo.

      • strayaway

        “Is so”, not “may be so”. They don’t each have there own amendment. “No abridgment” is the constitutional mandate. However, slander, fraud, and other damages can sometimes be addressed in courts. It also makes a difference if one is trying to maintain a reputation for truth or if one is writing for The Onion.

      • Stephen Barlow

        NO! it does NOT! A Republican Florida judge overturned a $400,000 award for FOX firing 2 writers who REFUSED to falsify facts in an assignment. he ruled television as entertainment and the news as the exclusive right of the broadcaster.

      • Stephen Barlow

        So printing that you are a child molesting rapist on the front page AND as the 5 o’clock lead story is “Freedom ofthe Press?”

        I mean you have the right to sue, if you can afford the long costly, publicly reported ‘news’ programming about the trial….

      • Stephen Barlow

        But FCC LAW should ENFORCE HONESTY in reporting.

      • Stephen Barlow

        YEAH!!! liberals like CBS, NBC, ABC and CNN whose PRO REPUBLICAN BIAS is scripted in the show for them. David Gregory, John Stossel, Tom Brokaw, Chris Wallace…

        Those disgraces to journalism who cash checks from the “liberal media”.

  • Viv Arney

    Then there are the 16 (at last count) DDOS attacks hurled at the ACA website likely funded by the GOPerverts that are making things worse and the fact that “Romneycare” and the Medicare Part D both had an even WORSE roll out than the ACA, but that’s not open to Obama Bashing by the FAUX noise and Limbaugh fanatics.

    • Dave

      I’ve only heard about this online….NOTHING has been brought up on any televised coverage that I have seen.

      • Why5ks

        it was brought up at the house hearings and has been reported on CBS and ABC that I’ve seen

    • Reddkl

      The first day the site was up, I told everybody I knew that the gov’t site was under attack. I didn’t hear anything official about it until the 2nd week. It’s sad that people are so misinformed and easily led astray.

    • Stephen Barlow

      When the Republicans in the California Senate do NOT get prosecuted for a fraudulent ACA website… We need a new AG.

  • BlueRick

    You may not like the beating of this ‘dead horse’ as you put it…but until it get’s fixed that’s what you’re gonna hear and read. Obama has permanently tarnished his legacy over this one…and that’s a shame.

    • Kelly Speaks

      Well then, stop waiting for the media to tell you it is working.. Go check it out for yourself!!!

      • BlueRick

        If you’re talking to me…this is not my fight. If you’re talking to ‘just a guy’…then address him directly…I’m done here.

    • An Angry Scotsman

      Really? Tarnished legacy over a website? If that’s the case, then you put a very thin definition on the term “legacy”

      • BlueRick

        Really? Are you that naive? I’m evidently more of a realist than you appear to be. EVERY President has that one (or more) thing that tarnishes his legacy…like it or not…and this is Obama’s … like it or not …and frankly I wish it had never happened….particularly since the problem was really started by Republicans way back during the Clinton administration.

      • An Angry Scotsman

        You call yourself a realist? You don’t have anything of REAL substance to your argument. You’re no different than thousands upon thousands of other people who will post on every negative article about the president, and call the contents of each article “the tarnish of his legacy.” It’s been a label put on everything from Obamacare, Bengazi, Lybia, Acorn, and his dog sh!tting in the garden. If you think you can do a better job then by all means, submit your nomination. I’ll even second you.

      • bluerick

        Hey I don’t like either…I already said that. But you can’t ignore facts and perceptions…or maybe YOU can.

      • An Angry Scotsman

        Who the hell are you?

      • me

        Even further back than that, it’s origins can be found all the way back to Nixon. However, healthcare reform is sorely needed, and this will put the country on the right track to a better payer option, in the future. You have to take the first step before you can walk.

      • strayaway

        Tarnished legacy over related things including the website: website, lying, failure of young healthy people to sign on to finance this thing so far, five million Americans kicked off their polices, average family insurance rates going up 13%.

  • Tony Bartlett

    Obamacare: aka The Patient Rejection and Unaffordable but Who
    Cares Act: It’s the gift that just keeps on giving… to Republicans. No one can say that we didn’t try to warn you. The MSM is late but finally catching up to reality. Too bad we couldn’t figure this out before real people actually started getting hurt.

    • ctchrisf

      reading comprehension is difficult for you isn’t it. It’s ok there is help.

      • Tony Bartlett

        Apparently reading comprehension is hard for MSM and the leftist deniers who got scammed by “The One” Conservatives knew all along that this plan was bogus and spun by all kinds of lies.

      • kso721

        whatever. he’s better than Romney all day long. Romney would have given free reign to all the absurd religious ideologues who are the core of the non-progress in this country. Add Romney’s mythology to the mix and well, welcome to a new level of Idiocracy. At least “the one” understands basic logic over golden tablets “written” by ancient americans prior to any known domestic writing systems.

      • Tony Bartlett

        Yeah and Carter was better than Castro but he still sucked. The same old weak, flawed argument.

      • kso721

        whatever makes ya feel better. 1 golden tablet for you!

      • Why5ks

        I see Tony is admitting that Republicans lie. Since this is the plan they have pushed since the 1980′s. Written by the Heritage Foundation (funded by the Koch Brothers) and enacted by a Republican Governor in Massachusetts, where the law is working very well. The ACA was written by the same man who wrote the Mass. law and even he says that more than 85% of ACA is directly taken from the Mass. law. The only differences are dealing with a national plan, Medicare expansion and the setting up of state exchanges. So tell me exactly when did the Republicans/Conservatives think this plan was a scam? When did the lie about it? Did they lie when they were hawking it for decades? Or did they start to lie about it once a black man was elected President and accepted this plan and got it passed into law?

      • ctchrisf

        There are two things wrong with the ACA, First the website sucks, Yup it’s true.
        2nd it’s not single payer. the 2nd point would make the first point Moot.
        Most real progressives have been pissed at Obama from day one for him using a Republican plan.

        Yup, Obama used a republican plan, Romney used it first. actually to great success in mass. although with similar rocky start.

        NHS in the UK cost half as much as our system, yet covers everyone from birth to death. With much better quality of life.

        Sorry to tell you this country is trying to move forward. Get on the bus or move out.

      • Tony Bartlett

        Well I’m going to resist moving out because unlike you, I don’t believe the UK or any other country compares favorable with the U.S. Sounds like YOU might be a better candidate for a move.

      • ctchrisf

        Maybe your view of this country of it’s fiscal shape is beyond your grasp.
        So. the UK which has much better health insurance for everyone. Don’t take my word look at actual data. Like I said costs half as much as our health care.

        That could save our country in the order of 800 billion.

        we spend 18″ of GDP on healthcare, they spend 8%
        Combine that with our military spending with as you probably know is more then the rest of the world combined. (think it’s actually as much as the next 22 countries.)

        Put those two cost savings together…

        WE could lower taxes for everyone. still have the best military in the world, and maybe the best healthcare.

        Or we can keep taxing the poor, denying preventative healthcare, make the few insured cover the costs of the uninsured. keep our bankruptcy rates high. Give money to the military complex for war, create more terrorists, have a few more 9/11′s katrina’s, sandy’s, growing income disparity, High Crime, disenfranchised population, devolve into a civil war. Rich and their police vs everyone else.

        Your choice, I think most people are aiming for a happier more civilized society, following the scandinavian model.

        Or we can go the Somalia route with no government, he who has biggest gun and family clan makes the rules.

      • Tony Bartlett

        So we go with the UK’s health care system or become Somalia. That’s our two choices? And if I don’t agree with you then I’m not able to grasp something? And of course, most people agree with you because you say so. Just one logical flaw after another. That’s the best you can do? Really? Can’t anyone here make a logical coherent argument about something?

      • ctchrisf

        I didn’t say those are the only two choices, I said those are the two directions.

        I said you might have trouble grasping the situation since you lead me to believe you thought our situation was favorable to other countries.

        most people agree since that was the results of the latest elections.

        Our healthcare system was the seen as most pressing issue of the 2008 election.

        What exactly was your plan ?
        Back to your initial point, what exactly did the right warn us about?
        That the states with republican government where so partisan that they wouldn’t help their citizens get healthcare?
        That the right would try and sabotage any efforts to help people?

        Again how are real people getting hurt? By cancelling substandard insurance plans.

        By lowering insurance costs ?
        By regulating insurance companies?
        by getting an additional 25 million health insurance?

        Yeah again it’s not perfect, after all Republican plan. Think it was newts and heritage foundations Idea

        Where are you not grasping the logic of trying to lower costs and covering more people ?

      • strayaway

        Somalia has been ripped apart by Islamists and foreign intervention. It is now broken into parts administered by foreign countries, Islamic groups, and local warlords filling in the gaps. I know that Somalia is supposed to be a clever example of libertarianism but the reality is that Somalia is a Country shredded by an ongoing war going back to before Clinton has his little disaster there.

      • ctchrisf

        Yeah that is what happens without a stable government.
        Thanks for illustrating my point exactly.

      • strayaway

        When Somalia last had a stable government it was a typical Muslim dictatorship; hardly the Scandinavian model with which you compared current Somalia. Off topic but our recent forays into toppling the governments of Libya and Egypt, and now Syria, all produced instability making them more like Somalia.

      • ctchrisf

        Not sure if that is completely accurate.
        looks like is was a muslim socialist country.
        Which the country seemed like it was doing quiet well. then 1978 then they attacked ethiopia,(I’m guessing CIA involvement) Soviet Union sided with Ethiopia, Somalia was backed by United states. Ethiopia won skirmish, Civil war broke out as result of loss of war. USA kinda left Somalia out to hang in the 80′s, turned into a USA backed military dictatorship.
        The government fell apart. leading to 2nd Civil war in 1991.

        Moral of story, USA should stay out of other peoples business, and this country was run by criminals in the 80′s

    • Kelly Speaks

      Is this the “genius” Michelle Bachmann??

      • Tony Bartlett

        No, this is the genius who knew years ago that Obama was a liar.

      • cjmmjc

        you hollering that Obama is a liar is pathetic at best when you say nothing about other presidents that have lied.
        WMD, Read my lips, I didn’t have sex with that girl, the Contras are freedom fighters lets send them stuff. Oh I’m sorry you probably did say something when the liars were Democrats, but are quiet as a church mouse when it republican lies on te hot seat.
        Pathetic

      • Tony Bartlett

        Your argument is someone else lied? Are any of you libs able to make an intelligent argument with using a logical fallacy?

      • strayaway

        There is no doubt that the President is a liar whether or not other presidents have been liars. Obama’s lies are just bigger and more persistent. “If you like your health insurance plan, you can keep it.”” If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period.””And if you already have health care, then we’re gonna work to lower your premiums by up to $2,500 per family.””I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family’s premium by up to $2,500 a year.”

        There were no ifs, ands. or buts when the President was trying to sell his (un)ACA plan. He lied, period. Then he said he had qualified it; another lie. Then standards were changed so that anyone who had an (un)ACA plan in their carts were considered to have purchased it to fudge the purchase numbers whether or not they ever follow through. Corporations would be fined for similarly cooking the books. Then, multiple navigators were filmed explaining how to lie in order to receive better rates. Sorry, but your attempts to deflect the charges that he lied won’t work. Obama is still a magna cum laude liar. Now he is acting like a dictator to re-legislate the law to allow Americans, to keep their policies until after the the 2014 election to sweep one issue under the rug. Then the “beatings will continue until morale improves”.

      • Buckthesystem

        Actually any policy that was in place before the law was grandfathered in and the only way those plans were cancelled was when the insurance companies decided they could make more money by canceling them. Any policy that did not meet the ACA that was sold after the law would not be able to be kept and those policies should never have been sold knowing they would soon be obsolete, but the ins. co’s just padded their bottom lines for a few more years.

      • strayaway

        The President still lied about everyone being able to keep their policies. Coulda shoulda woulda doesn’t count. A President’s word, on the other hand, is supposed to. Sen. Landrieu, I think, has a bill that might be able to be reconciled with the bill the House just passed to grandfather in those policies. Of course, the President claims he personally changed the law so these canceled policies can be extended until after the 2014 election. A court might disagree.

      • Buckthesystem

        Insurance companies cancel policies all the time, I used to have a good policy years ago with BCBS but they were not making as much money in my area anymore so they pulled out of the area, even though they kept it in the next county, where they still turned a good profit. The insurance companies could, by law keep any of those policies that were in effect before the law was signed but I am sure they see that they can now make more by canceling them and having the people get new ones under the ACA and that’s who should be investigated for the cancelations.

      • strayaway

        Even Michelle Bachman’s husband lost his policy because of new (un)ACA mandates.

      • Buckthesystem

        Good now maybe he can finally get that mental health coverage they both need. That is if she can find the time to actually sign up instead of using her time to find ways of making an ass out of herself.

    • Aloanstar

      Who has gotten hurt?? No one. Did thousands of lives get lost? No. A website simply had glitches and below par insurance companies were exposed for what they are.
      The only bad part about ACA is that it didn’t force all (Republican) states to expand Mediciad. I live in Texas and I would love to able to shop around on the ACA website, but since we have those pesky GOP cockroaches protecting us from the mean old POTUS, we are left out unless we want to pay a lot more. My insurance went up, but it goes up every year….even though I never even go to the doctor, somehow they want to blame the ACA for it this year. I know better, but I am just happy knowing many people who have been denied now getting coverage. When the GOP “warns” about anything, it must be something that a lobbyist or donor doesn’t want, so it must be something that will be good for the people. They never want to do what is best of the American people, just what is good for their corporate backers and their own pockets. We are only in the way.

      • Tony Bartlett

        Can’t make an argument without calling someone a cockroach? What does that say about your argument? Obama lied. Period. Why? Because liberal ideas don’t pass without lies. The plan is not affordable. Not affordable for the middle class and not for the taxpayer but who cares right? And if you do care about things being unaffordable then you are just evil, full of hate, and of course, the old stand by, racist.

      • Aloanstar

        They are cockroaches. I live in Texas, where the districts have been gerrymandered and they have almost impossible to get rid of…just like roaches. It isn’t an insult…just an observation. The plans are affordable in states where the expansion has happened, but to prove it doesn’t work, red states are working overtime to prove it. LOL…yeah, I am “evil and full of hate”……oh yeah….and a “racist”. That is me….wow, you pegged me over wanting everyone to have coverage!! Tony, there is absolutely nothing that Obama could do before 2016 that could push the majority of Americans into the arms of the GOP extreme religious ideology.” No one died when Obama lied” the same can not be said for Bush.

      • Aloanstar

        Besides, how was he to know that some people preferred to keep their substandard insurance policies? I don’t see that as a lie on his part as much as an insurance scam on the insurers part….well, they get to keep it for another year anyway….fixed.

      • Tony Bartlett

        Oh and by the way I live in Illinois where they use the same gerrymandering. But since our state is run by Dems we are broke and about to go bankrupt.

      • Tony Bartlett

        That’s like saying my plan is going to kill you but my fix is to delay killing you for a year. That’s a fix? Only a fix for Dems running for reelection but it won’t work because the law is flawed and its failures will always be blamed on those who created it and supported it.

      • Aloanstar

        Tony, who has died? Where was your outrage when insurance companies cancelled policies and left people to die when they developed an illness and didn’t want to cover them?? People being covered for pre-existing problems or not being able to afford health care isn’t killing anyone. Where was the outrage before the ACA? It has been happening for decades and the GOP didn’t seem to care enough to come up with a plan…still no plan, but they just don’t want Obama to have one either. At least he is addressing a real issue, not just trying to suppress individuals rights every chance he gets, as is the GOP in every state they gerrymander. Change your channel….it isn’t helping you understand the rest of the country and what problems are real to the majority, not just to “liberals”.

      • Tony Bartlett

        Try making an argument in favor of the ACA. You want to debate healthcare and the ACA? I don’t think you do. You keep wanting to tell me how bad someone else is. That is not an argument in favor of the ACA. That is a classic poorly constructed argument utilized frequently by the left and frankly the uneducated. Someone else doing something bad does not excuse Obamacare. Listen to yourself. “Where was your outrage when…” It’s a red flag that you don’t have a logical argument. I don’t argue with people like you. You obviously don’t know how to make an intelligent argument so what’s the point? Anyone else want to give it a try?

      • Why5ks

        You aren’t even smart enough to understand the argument people are making with you. We are not pointing out what someone else did wrong, thus creating a rationale to accept what someone else did wrong. Nice try but dumb. We are addressing your, and the entire right wings, excessive use of hyperbole, exaggeration, and lies to discuss the issues surrounding the ACA. You act with complete distain and out rage over what you call a lie and a non functioning web site. We are merely asking you to justify your level of outrage. You claim that lies from this President are an ultimate evil, yet you refuse to show even a modicum of remorse (never mind distain) for the lies and actions of the previous President. That sir makes everything you say partisan and pointless. It also makes you a tool for the elite power brokers of the Tea Party and GOP leadership, but aren’t smart enough to see that. Then again as I have said elsewhere, unless that is you work for those power brokers and are a paid troll. Or better yet are you one of those FauxNews employees that has up to 100 online identities to spread lies about ACA?

      • lijkeemay

        Tony, Why5 was right you are an arrogant troll who has been dropped one to many times on your head. Go away you bore me!

      • Tony Bartlett

        Well if i’m arrogant it’s from talking to people like you. I mean my father is a liberal but he is smart. He challenges me with coherent arguments. You and folks like you can’t make an intelligent argument to save your life. You just call people names and attack Bush. I’m not the smartest guy in the world but I feel like a genius when I debate people like you.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        that’s because u are a genius,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

      • Tony Bartlett

        I know you are being sarcastic but all the credit goes to my dad. With him I could debate an intelligent liberal, one who loved me and would never call me names. …and I, of course would never call him names. We debate the issues like two intelligent people. From this I learned that good people can have opposing ideas. But look at all the posts here. SMH

      • regressive rightwing trash

        when incontrovertible FACTS are shown as evidence I find that the vast majority of regressive rightwingers will spin them and ignore them and talk more loudly or simply TRYtryTRY to change topic. NO DOUBT democrats are screw-ups and charlatans ( shrpton/jesse jackass/etc) but for my money the rightwing is far more guilty of bullshit–especially the policies ( or LACK of policies) proposed by todays incumbent congressional republicans . I have for years watched the left and center and right wing TV news shows: it is the facts that are usually highly accurate on CNN and msnbc as opposed to FOX “news” ( NOTE– when FOX focuses on NEWS only,,,,they are the best. when they include partisan politics in the dialogue they are as balanced as a pregnant moose) my main infection in when these scumbag Christians on the right include the superstition of a dead jewish carpenter as a viable selection towards “POLICY”. Ever notice that liberals/democrats NEVER say shit like ” jesus told me to run for president” or ” we are a Christian based nation” or ” the founding fathers want us as a Christian people”???? when crybaby rightwingers are SHOWN by US treasury and/or CBO mathematical FACTS that (example) obamas spending is receding dramatically they change to some crap like Benghazi,,,, whoever cannot see through that cellophane smokescreen does indeed deserve to stay in everlasting ignorance

      • Buckthesystem

        Why do I get the picture of you yelling at your father, the man that raised you and has been around at least 18 years longer than you and has experienced more in this world, as you try to convince him that you are smarter than him LOL.

      • Tony Bartlett

        My guess is because that is how many teenagers act at that age. My father didn’t play that and I probably won’t when my kids become teens. This might explain why I typically avoid debating people who don’t know how to have a civil debate. I respect thoughtful dialog but when people go for the name calling and irrational emotional appeals I try to stay above it.

      • Buckthesystem

        I am on medicare and when GB decided that I need to sign up for drug coverage or I will have a penalty I did not whine about it as it was the law and it would benefit a lot of those that could not afford their meds and I am not well off but there are some worse than me.

      • Tony Bartlett

        People expressing their dissatisfaction with something, is whining by your definition?Well this country was founded by whiners in that case.

      • strayaway

        Tony, Many of the posters here are uncomfortable with mentions of the founders and liberty. Mentioning such things here is like flashing a silver cross at vampires. They get all crazy and intone Bush for their shortcomings. Freedom here sort of means having government make one’s decisions and provide things.

      • Buckthesystem

        Freedom to me is a fair playing field for all. Don’t go giving rich people tax breaks or loopholes that are not available to everyone, just because they have the resources to get them. Our country was built on the idea of all men being created equal and having the same chances to survive. Did our founding fathers make mistakes? sure they did, look at slavery, should anyone ever be allowed to own somebody, and that’s why they left a way to make changes to our laws. They knew they were not perfect and things would need to be tweaked along the way. This did not stop them though, they did some very terrible things and through the years cooler and calmer heads worked things out and thats the way things should be today. Meanwhile as everybody is divided and screaming at one another they seem to take their eyes off of the important issues that would help our country grow into the great nation that it is supposed to be.

      • strayaway

        Were it up to me, I would eliminate all corporate subsidies, eliminate the Federal Reserve, and substitute import taxes for income taxes to reduce the privilege of the rich.

      • Buckthesystem

        Not a real comparison of how our country was founded and having health care for everyone but if you must. I guess you believe the boston tea party was a revolt against unfair taxation. It was, but it was against the unfair tax breaks that a large corporation received that enabled them to under sell even the black market tea that was smuggled into the colonies, thus giving them an unfair and monopolistic advantage and helping them from going bankrupt. Now when I see what has happened in our country, where in the past there were a lot of good jobs, good health care that was paid for by those jobs, no longer exists and there are good people losing everything because of an illness that probably could have been managed if they had coverage. I say instead of sitting and doing nothing or trying to fight a program that has been proven to work, Romneycare, why not work to make it succeed and find answers to the problems that would show up in any program of this magnitude instead of shutting down our govt. and costing billions to the economy, or wasting millions on votes to dismantle it instead of working to fix it and actually voting on I don’t know maybe a jobs bill so more people could be working and growing our economy.

      • Mrs_oatmeal

        Here’s an argument , Tony. I live in Massachusetts, the great state of Romneycare! Very similar to the ACA! Put in by a Republican! It works! No one died from lack of healthcare and it is affordable. My brother in Maine just was able to sign up for affordable healthcare in Maine. He hasn’t been able to afford health insurance for 15 years. The right would prefer people with per existing conditions just die. This was their chant at a convention. Sorry, I think that is inhuman. Go with your Republican lies of microchip ping, death panels ( which insurance companies did by pulling coverage).

      • Tony Bartlett

        You didn’t do too bad until you stated that the right wants people to die. That’s an irrational appeal to emotion. Giving an example of one or two people who benefit is a flawed argument. You are saying the fact that some policy helps one or two people makes it a good policy. That is flawed logic. Sorry I’m not going to call you or your political party names. I’m not going down to your level. I’ll just state that your argument is poorly constructed and flawed.

      • Buckthesystem

        Sorry they want the people with no coverage to go to the ER, you don’t go to the ER unless it is the last option hence the word EMERGENCY. You don’t go there to have your blood work done to find out that you have high blood pressure or cholesterol or any other of the silent killer health problems. That’s why it costs $6 for an advil at the hospital because they have to make up the costs of the people that cannot pay them. And when things go bad you will hear everyone scream about it but when things are going good only a few will take the time to spread the word. Just like any big program there might be some problems but those will be worked out soon enough but don’t scrap the program because it is not working as intended for a small portion while it is helping many.

      • Tony Bartlett

        Why do they have to call me names to make that point. You make a good argument for why our health care system needed to be fixed. Most people, even conservatives, believe it or not, don’t want people to go without health care. Conservatives don’t agree with Obama’s plan but that doesn’t make us evil racist cockroaches or whatever other names they call you on this site.

        The $6 Advil doesn’t just come from emergency room visits. In the free market prices are set by things like supply and demand. The government and the insurance companies involvement in the health care market distort normal market forces much like the free flowing student loans make college much more expensive than it has to be. This interference causes prices to increase to a level that the market would not normally bear. Obamacare is not a simple law but the government know best approach has some fatal design flaws. The middle class is and will be hurt by this law. They are being hurt by the employer mandate and the assault on the individual market. A lot of people may think that there is nothing more important than healthcare and I guess you can make some strong arguments in favor of this position but destroying our economy to provide some people with health care is not a reasonable trade off in my opinion.

      • Buckthesystem

        Face the fact that every large program will have problems and not everyone will like the new program but I have faith that the POTUS will look at the problems and find a way to fix the thing that is bothering them so much. If every state would just get on board and let the program run as intended then that would be one less thing to fix.

      • Tony Bartlett

        You still have faith in a President who routinely lied about his signature program? That is admirable I guess but if you are a reasonable person I’m sure you will understand that other reasonable people may not share the faith that you have in the President particularly when it come to the ACA.

      • Buckthesystem

        Well you can sit there and say he lied but the fact remains that if the insurance companies would keep those policies in tact they would not be kicked off, but the insurance companies would not be able to sign up new customers into those policies so they scrapped them. Would you rather the POTUS had written into the law that the insurance companies could not cancel any policies, even if it gave the majority of people a better alternative. I have no doubt that the insurance companies are looking at this as how they can maximize profits while staying within the letter of the law, if they would just do what will help the most people even if it meant a smaller profits they could still survive, but that is the real issue, companies that have to make absurd profits and they don’t care who they squeeze to do it. There will be no death panels or any of the other ridiculous claims that have been coming from the far right, because of this law. Oh and I am sure there is no shortage of advil that would justify $6 a pill, they do it to try and make as much as they can because people are sick and if they can get away with it, would you pay that if you went into the store? no you would go somewhere cheaper, but you really don’t have much choice when you are laid up in a hospital bed now do you. When I was in the hospital I had someone bring me some instead of paying that price. It has nothing to do with supply and demand. What will destroy our economy is letting companies run roughshod without regulation because they need another billion in their bottom line or to pass onto their children so they will never know what it is like to actually have to earn their own way. Bring back the inheritance taxes we used to have and let them have just enough to make their own start in life without having to struggle, but when they have millions handed to them they will have no empathy for anyone and will continue the absurd ways of their greed. I think as far as getting an education should be just like healthcare and no company should get rich off of it. Do they deserve a profit for the service they provide? yes, but it should not put anyone into bankruptcy to have either one. Our great country should be the 1st in the world in both education and healthcare and this would both grow our economy and strengthen our standing in the world as the best.

      • Tony Bartlett

        I wasn’t calling you evil, racist, etc., I was mocking the liberal talking points. You are so into the Dem vs. Rep thing that you can’t even think straight. Your argument like other libs is that he isn’t Bush or Bush did bad things or worst things. That’s not a legitimate argument. I challenge you or any of you libs to make an argument without using a logical fallacy.

      • Why5ks

        So Tony show me where you were outraged over Bush telling lies about WMDs in Iraq, about the Iraq link, about how the tax breaks for the rich was going to increase employment. Please let me see your outrage over those lies that actually led to people being killed and wounded by the thousands. Please also show me your outrage at all the continual lies about the ACA. The truth is Obama didn’t lie, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THE LAW REQUIRING THE INSURANCE COMPANIES TO DROP POLICY HOLDERS. Funny how insurance companies being greedy and self serving is Obama’s fault. What they are doing now isn’t greedy but the way they have ripped off patients with the pseudo policies for years was pure greed. As for your stupidly ridiculous claim about how the middle class can’t afford this, how dumb are you? The ACA has already saved policy holders billions of dollars in premium rebates because they were over charged. The CBO has confirmed the negotiated savings in the ACA has saved Medicare policy holders over $7 billion in reduced drug costs. The billing changes enforced by the ACA has saved Medicare itself billions too. The CBO has said repealing ACA will more than double the budget deficit each year for the foreseeable future. Even the Republicans recognize the savings to the government in ACA being near $700 billion dollars. Instead of using those saving to provide affordable healthcare for millions of Americans they want to create more tax breaks for the richest 1%. Read Paul Ryan’s budgets closely and he tries to hide it but he has included it in every one he has proposed. Every Conservative projection that shows this LAW as busting the budget make 2 very flawed assumptions they know small minded people like you will never question, never mind understand. The first assumption is that all healthcare costs will continue to escalate at the same rate it has for decades. This completely ignores the negotiated savings and lower prices that the law has forced onto the healthcare system. It also ignores that the new law also has stricter enforcement for fraud and corruption in the system. The second assumption is that moving the focus on preventative care from emergency care will not lower costs, even though emergency care can be up to 10 times more expensive. It further refuses to accept we are all ready paying for all the uninsured people who are using the emergency rooms for their general healthcare, which is why we pay $10 to $15 for an aspirin during hospital stays.

      • Tony Bartlett

        Ok, I can see you don’t know what a logical fallacy is. I’ll use your post above to provide some great examples of logical fallacies. Thanks!

      • Why5ks

        @Tony I know exactly what logical fallacy is, I’ve read a bunch of your posts. Not one has any resemblance of truth or reality. I hope you make good money for being a troll. There are only 2 types of things that could make you spout the crap you do. First, you were either dropped on your head frequently when young or you got too close to a mule who decided to let his hoof get up close and personal with your skull. Second would be that you get paid lots of money to sell your soul to say what you say.

      • Tony Bartlett

        Great example of the ad hominem logical fallacy. Still not showing any signs of intelligence though.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        u just got busted—– another small dicked regressive rightwing shitbag on these posts used that exact line,,,so now we know its true: rightwing crybaby white trash using a plethora of aliases to clog up these threads,,,,U are SOOOOOOOOOOO busted little man

      • Tony Bartlett

        Nice how you call me, a Black man, White trash. And you guys call us racist. I am a man of my own words but I will quote others from time to time. But I am also educated so when I do quote someone else I give them credit. More name calling. Just can’t stand up to me with a good coherent argument can you?

      • Why5ks

        A great example of who is exhibiting intelligence can be seen by everyone reading this thread. Everyone of my posts has multiple thumbs up and yours sadly all have multiple thumbs down. Troll on warrior, troll on. You make troll hunting fun, even though you make the targets too easy to hit, because you never refute facts. Continually trying to sound intelligent (and failing) by using randomly select big words isn’t working for you. Especially when you are doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing. Still waiting for you to refute one thing I’ve said, now that would take real intelligence, not the self serving rationalizing type you use.

      • Tony Bartlett

        I’m a Black conservative. I don’t expect “thumbs up” on this leftist site and I have no problem going against the grain. I think for myself. I lead. I don’t follow. I don’t debate with people who name call or don’t seem intelligent.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        arguing with FOX “news” watchers such as tony barflett is akin to tutoring my pet TEGU in hopes he will someday play chopin

      • Tony Bartlett

        They aren’t making argument they are just making noise because that’s all they know how to do. Just like you obviously.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        why do U guys argue with blockheads such as tony barflett?

      • Tony Bartlett

        Another personal attack. Thanks for helping me make my point.

      • strayaway

        “Who has gotten hurt??”

        Five million Americans who have been kicked off their policies, doctors who have been let go, website visitors whose privacy has been compromised, and taxpayers for starters.

      • Aloanstar

        No doctors have been “let go”…I don’t even know (but could guess) where you heard that one.
        Never mind that insurance companies have always “kicked” people off their policies when they have gotten sick and they didn’t want to cover them or that the policies were sub standard to begin with and didn’t meet requirements. The scam insurance was not worth paying for to begin with, but now they can keep it for another year. People have been dying for a very long time because they couldn’t qualify or afford coverage, now they can. I think in the grand scheme of things, more people will benefit. It would be more beneficial if every state got on board, especially the ones that have the highest number of uninsured…which Texas does have the highest number, but refuses to care about those people…they are poor and considered unimportant by Perry, so they don’t need access to health care. No ones privacy has been compromised, because the website does not even ask any health questions….even pre-existing medical conditions are not asked. That is a right wing political and media lie. Taxpayers have always covered the added expense of the uninsured, but if everyone is covered that cost should go down. It is THE LAW, just get over it and except the new age in health care. It doesn’t go far enough, but it is a start in the right direction.

      • strayaway

        Do a Google search for “doctors fired by united healthcare” for starters. How is it that you know better than people who have lost their policies what is good for them; that they are better off without any insurance? Texas has a lot of illegal aliens so of course Texas is going to have a lot of uninsured residents. President Obama “promised” that if passed, the (un)ACA would not cover illegal aliens so Texas will probably continue to have high uninsured rates unless the President breaks another promise.

        Slavery was a law too but bad laws should be overturned. Corporatism is never the right direction.

      • Aloanstar

        LOL….you are comparing the ACA and slavery?? You are “eaten up” with the right wing rhetoric.

        Texas has a very high population of uninsured, because Texas also has a very high population of people living in poverty (due to too many low wage jobs), as does most of the southern states, who are also not expanding Medicaid to give it’s citizen the full benefits of lower costs using the marketplace. Millions of people, including 1.4 millions children, in Texas, can not afford insurance and opt to buy food and a roof over their heads….hoping they don’t get sick or have an accident, which could render them homeless or worse, they just die. They don’t have insurance and you are worried about the people who have subpar insurance, scam insurance, that will be losing it and forcing them to get better insurance on the exchange?

        As far as doctors being fired, ones who are working in the Medicare Advantage network and that is being investigated by the American Medical Association, because what it appears to be is UHC just putting profits above the needs of Seniors. Keep listening to Infowars and Fox though…they only tell the truth…all the time….well, their version of it and whatever their knuckle dragging viewers will fall for.

      • Aloanstar

        LOL….you are comparing the ACA and slavery?? You are “eaten up” with the right wing rhetoric.

        Texas has a very high population of uninsured, because Texas also has a very high population of people living in poverty (due to too many low wage jobs), as does most of the southern states, who are also not expanding Medicaid to give it’s citizen the full benefits of lower costs using the marketplace. Millions of people, including 1.4 millions children, in Texas, can not afford insurance and opt to buy food and a roof over their heads….hoping they don’t get sick or have an accident, which could render them homeless or worse, they just die. They don’t have insurance and you are worried about the people who have subpar insurance, scam insurance, that will be losing it and forcing them to get better insurance on the exchange?

        As far as doctors being fired, ones who are working in the Medicare Advantage network and that is being investigated by the American Medical Association, because what it appears to be is UHC just putting profits above the needs of Seniors. Keep listening to Infowars and Fox though…they only tell the truth…all the time….well, their version of it and whatever their knuckle dragging viewers will fall for.

      • Aloanstar

        And please stop talking to me….you are the part of the bigger problem in this country and you will never see the whole picture. You have zero peripheral vision, you are narrowed to a tunnel view of society and that just isn’t how life should be seen.

      • Aloanstar

        And please stop talking to me….you are the part of the bigger problem in this country and you will never see the whole picture. You have zero peripheral vision, you are narrowed to a tunnel view of society and that just isn’t how life should be seen.

      • strayaway

        Not so much comparing as trying to make the point that bad laws can and should be eradicated.

        Texas cannot give anything with Medicare advantage without taking federal tax dollars from our children but I suppose that is what liberals mean by giving. The federal freebees aren’t guaranteed in perpetuity either so Texas could eventually get stuck covering what the federal government is providing in bribes.

        The UHC was just the first example I Googled. I don’t think you want to make excuses for all the other doctor being let go. I don’t listen to Fox or Infowars. I realize that liberals have to imagine that racism, the Koch Brothers, Rush, Fox News, and especially Bush account for all thoughts outside of Newthink, but that isn’t the case. Bad guess.

      • strayaway

        Not so much comparing as trying to make the point that bad laws can and should be eradicated.

        Texas cannot give anything with Medicare advantage without taking federal tax dollars from our children but I suppose that is what liberals mean by giving. The federal freebees aren’t guaranteed in perpetuity either so Texas could eventually get stuck covering what the federal government is providing in bribes.

        The UHC was just the first example I Googled. I don’t think you want to make excuses for all the other doctor being let go. I don’t listen to Fox or Infowars. I realize that liberals have to imagine that racism, the Koch Brothers, Rush, Fox News, and especially Bush account for all thoughts outside of Newthink, but that isn’t the case. Bad guess.

      • strayaway

        Do a Google search for “doctors fired by united healthcare” for starters. How is it that you know better than people who have lost their policies what is good for them; that they are better off without any insurance? Texas has a lot of illegal aliens so of course Texas is going to have a lot of uninsured residents. President Obama “promised” that if passed, the (un)ACA would not cover illegal aliens so Texas will probably continue to have high uninsured rates unless the President breaks another promise.

        Slavery was a law too but bad laws should be overturned. Corporatism is never the right direction.

  • Sean

    Democrats are terrible at spin. Their supporters are terrible at spin. They all decided to admit he lied and then say he had to.

    The Republicans would have never done that. When faced with people losing their “plans”, a Republican President would have said, “That wasn’t a Health Plan”. He should have never admitted he was wrong, they should have spun it. Everyone on the left should be saying, “No American has lost a Health Care Plan. People have lost a scam masquerading as a health care plan, but nobody has actually lost a plan that covers health care”

    Republicans are much better at this spin.

    • strayaway

      Up to 5,000,000 Americans have been deprived of health plans they did have because of new (un)ACA mandates. I’m not one to get caught up in politics by anecdote but am surprised as the arrogance, callous disregard, and hostility for all these people who have been deprived of their health care insurance. True, their policies didn’t provide sex change operations but at least most were covered for cancer and heart surgeries. Maybe that was all they cared to pay for. That was better than nothing. Now they have nothing thanks to everyone who voted for President Obama. You guys ought to have some respect for the intelligence of others. They can make their own decisions. Even now, everyone in the Country has the option of getting a new (un)ACA policy if we think it is better than our existing policies. Had the old policies just been grandfathered in, the President wouldn’t have come off as such a liar and people would come around to buy better policies to the extent they exist.

      • Sean

        Come on, they were “covered” with a high co-pay or deductible that was essentially the same as having no plan.

        Sure, Cancer and heart surgery are covered on paper, wait until you need one.

        I wouldn’t trade my single-payer system any day of the week for what you guys have.

      • Pipercat

        I had one of those so called, policies; it was filled with exceptions, a non-existent network, a Rx card instead of prescription drug coverage and all the usual suspects. To even get the coverage required me to omit things on technicalities. I just signed up for a gold PPO that has no exceptions, drug coverage, my existing MD in their network and is truly affordable.

      • strayaway

        Thank you for making my points about arrogance, callous disregard, and hostility toward the five million Americans now on the street without insurance. Your conclusion seems to be they are better off with no insurance than with the policies they had. You offered no proof that they received no coverage. Perhaps you aren’t aware that (un)ACA bureaucrats effectively blocked Vermont’s attempt at having an AFFORDABLE single payer plan like those of Canadian provinces. This was accomplished by requiring any State single payer plan to include all the trial lawyers, insurance companies, big-pharma, and bureaucrats feasting off at the (un)ACA health care feed trough.

      • RRuin

        The junk polices are pretty much the same as having no insurance at all.

      • strayaway

        Thank you too for making my points about arrogance, callous disregard, and hostility toward the five million Americans now on the street without insurance. Your conclusion seems to be they are better off with no insurance than with the policies they had. You offered no proof that cancelled policies “are pretty much the same as having no coverage at all”. How do you know more than the purchasers and what gives you the right to second guess them? Extending your logic, when new house building codes are adopted, everyone living in a home that doesn’t meet the newly released guidelines should be made homeless.

      • Lynn

        And where is your proof that those losing their “plans” aren’t being offered better plans that will actually protect them at the same rates they were paying for the junk plans? I have noticed that most people with the plans that are being canceled don’t really understand what their plan did and did not cover and haven’t made any effort to find out what options they have now.

      • strayaway

        I didn’t even suggest that that either new plans offered by their respective insurance companies for higher prices or (un)ACA plans aren’t better. That is for the owners of policies should determine for themselves. I, however, am not so arrogant, reckless, or cruel as to kick them off their policies. Nor do I consider myself as better able to determine than the owners of such policies what is best for them. Having some insurance is better than no insurance though. That’s an easy call.

      • Mary C

        Having ‘some insurance’ being ‘better than none’ is a dubious assumption, at best. If one cannot afford the high deductible, while paying a monthly premium that places a strain on the family budget, is hardly ‘insurance’ at all! It just lines the pockets of the insurance company…period. Junk policies are just that….JUNK!

      • strayaway

        So Bronze plans don’t have high deductibles? Thanks for affirming that you approve of 5M additional Americans without insurance. Not sure those people would agree with you though.

      • Mary C

        My son & DIL (and grandchildren) were the victims of just such ‘junk policy’, which is all they could get/afford, which covered only the DIL & 2 children, still over $350/month, with a $10K deductible. Yeah…that IS ‘worthless’, because at the cost of copays, they couldn’t even afford the $10K/year, so would tend to not go to a doctor. AND, they refused to cover the granddaughter’s ‘pre-existing’ condition (recurring bladder infections), until she remained symptom-free for at least a year! What rubbish!

      • strayaway

        Mary C, I hope they now have an (un)ACA plan run by the same insurance companies. Surely, these companies will now show their virtuosity and provide almost free coverage because they have been blessed by the President. This is going to save taxpayers money too. Need proof? Consider the polished rollout of this product. Today, even a dog named Baxter, in Colorado was enrolled. You will have to do a Google search to get de tails but if even Baxter could enroll, what is holding everyone back?

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        What makes you think they don’t have insurance?

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        AWWWWWW!. And were you that concerned about the FIFTY million with no insurance in the first place?

      • strayaway

        And now, because of the introduction of the (un)ACA, there are almost FIFTY FIVE million with no insurance.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        You know that for sure? No one has tried to get insurance, like that real estate woman in Florida who hadn’t actually looked at what was available.

        Your concern is misplaced.

      • strayaway

        “That woman” in florida? That reminds me of “I did not have sex with that woman” quoting another great Democratic President. He should have added “period” at the end of the sentence to be more emphatic as in “You will be able to keep your insurance period.”

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        No less than Greta Van Susteren skewered “that woman.” Here’s the link:
        http://www DOT mediaite DOT com/tv/fox-news-greta-van-susteren-out-journalisms-cbs-news-on-florida-womans-junk-insurance/

        “I have a copy of your Florida Blue insurance and it’s about $54 a month,” Greta continued, “and now I understand that under Obamacare, it’s going to go up, at least they said that the policy they would offer you under Florida Blue, would be $591; is that correct?”

        Actually, the plan BCBSFL was only one of many plans Dianne has to choose from, 10 of which are cheaper than that $591, and based on her income, she’d only pay around $209 a month, but Greta did cut right to the chase about the quality of her old plan.

        “Your $54 a month policy is a pretty, you know, bare bones policy, “Greta said. “Why do you want to keep that one, except for the price? Maybe you can get something better with a subsidy?”

        “Well, I know it doesn’t cover lengthy hospital stays,” Barrette replied, adding “It’s perfect for what I want. I get co-pays for doctor visits and prescriptions. So it suffices what I need. Also, the price isn’t too bad either.”

        Her $54 plan actually doesn’t have copays for doctor visits and prescriptions. It pays $50 toward covered doctor’s visits, Dianne pays the rest, and
        $15 toward prescriptions, Dianne pays the rest. As for hospitalization, Greta again went where CBS did not, and actually asked about it…”

      • strayaway

        Sounds wonderful and magical. I could also bring up links to people who have to pay more. Just bill the subsidies to our kids or print some money or something to make it work. I was reading this morning that now there is talk that rates will have to go up to make this work. Surprise, surprise.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        What is “wonderful and magical?” You need to understand my daughter lives in a state that didn’t balk and actually did its own exchange rather than relying on a federal exchange. Or does good news make your head explode?

        Better question. are you losing YOUR insurance???

      • strayaway

        “Wonderful and magical” was sarcasm. I was responding to people who believe in Santa. Maybe, I am subsidizing her Christmas Tree presents by subsidizing her costs. See, just like Christmas. Formula: 1) print money 2) give it away 3) bill expenses it to our children 4) repeat.

        No, I’m not losing my insurance. I have a good union provided plan. It’s price creeps up every year. I have my quarrels with my insurance company too. There are threats afloat that my group policy could be replaced with a piece of junk (un)ACA policy to keep workers from demanding too much in their contract negotiation.

      • Navybrat

        You just keep repeating yourself in the hopes that someone as ignorant as you are will agree with you. You are so tedious.

      • strayaway

        Navybrat, Thanks for contributing nothing.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        why do U people argue with this strayaway cretin?

      • Navybrat

        I’ve read of enough of his tripe.. he’s gotten to be boring and I’m out of here!!

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Because he will eventually have a stroke and have to use Obamacare to recover…

      • regressive rightwing trash

        wouldn’t he just PRAY ( SEE: “beg”) for his savior to save him????

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        “In 2011, with Dr. Richter standing by the Governor’s side as he signed the bill, Vermont became the first state to enact a framework and a timetable for a state-level single payer health system. Implementation of the law now waits for the clearance of a number of crucial hurdles, among them a federal waiver of requirements in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act—Obamacare—and the passage of a financing plan that would raise enough new tax revenue to replace what is currently spent on private health insurance premiums.”

        Article from three months ago. Doesn’t look like single-payor has been blocked. You got anything more recent?

        https://www DOT commondreams DOT org/view/2013/08/11-1

      • strayaway

        Did you notice that I capitalized “AFFORDABLE”. What makes Canadian provincial plans affordable is that trial lawyers, bureaucrats, insurance policies, are a thing of the past. Single payer has not been blocked. I never said it was. But where does it say in your article that those costs preventing “affordability” have been eliminated?

      • Ellen P Collingsworth

        Callous disregard for what? The fact that a mass consumer fraud has been eliminated? I think you are the one who is callously disregarding the fact that those people were being robbed every single month by a company that was in no way going to ever pay out for anything. So yes, they are in fact better off without the plan because they are ahead their premiums every month. My close friend who was dropped, along with her spouse and 2 kids from her insurance after she survived cancer has insurance again for the first time in 13 years thanks to ACA. You want to talk about callous disregard, you are callously disregarding her and all of the families like her when you can’t set personal politics aside in favor of facts.

      • strayaway

        Callous as in putting 5M Americans on the street without insurance. Churches used to burn witches to purify them too. Same mentality with a touch of arrogance, knowing what is better for someone else than they do themselves, for good measure.

      • strayaway

        I like anecdotes as a substitute for reasoning. You probably also believe those adds that say “my sister made$400/day at home on her computer.”

        What personal politics? I believe states should have the right to adopt single payer plans, per the 10th Amendment, without federal government stipulations.

      • NOTignorant

        I notice when someone brings up a good opposing point to you, you ignore it. Why don’t you tell us how you’re NOT being callous when you ignore the fact that millions of people were being denied or dropped from their insurance because of a pre-existing condition, or an illness? And the fact that people in this country could lose everything they have because they suddenly have to go to the doctor for something that costs way more than they’ll ever have. Yes, people lost their insurance because of the ACA guidelines, but they have a chance to get something else-something better. Millions of people before the ACA didn’t even have that choice. Their choice was to go broke, or die.

      • strayaway

        I thought you were going to mention a “good point” Instead, you want to know how I feel. You seem easily distracted. If that is the only good thing about the (un)ACA, then why not just can the whole mess and leave that provision in place? Unfortunately, for all the virtue in forcing insurance companies not to drop sick people, the rest of the plan is pretty much a mess and almost five million additional people now have no insurance because insurance companies dropped them. You care more about how I feel than about the 5M Americans you have just stripped all insurance from. Being more about feeling than actions which is one reason your feel good plan is failing. If we kick all the residents out of homes that don’t meet code, “they have a chance to get something else-something better.” If we take all cars away from people whose cars are 10 years old, “they have a chance to get something else-something better.” We don’t let anyone eat cheap food, “they have a chance to get something else-something better.” etc. “Let the beatings continue until morale improves”

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Yeah, I see ads for those plans all the time. A photocopy nailed to a telephone pole. “Affordable Health Insurance! Call 1-800-YER-SKROOD!”

      • strayaway

        The the reality of 5M people without plans all of a sudden weighs heavier than your imaginary anecdote.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        What anecdote? I’ve seen those signs for years. And what about the reality of 50 million who didn’t have insurance before the ACA? That doesn’t bother you?

      • Vj Sleight

        They always have the option to get insurance through the exchanges. They are not going without coverage unless they choose to. And the argument that they can’t afford it doesn’t stand up. For those who truly can’t afford healthcare, the subsidies and the ability to file for a hardship exemption will help them. For those who can’t claim a subsidy (i.e. make too much money), I have no sympathy.

      • strayaway

        Yes they have that option. Just a few clicks on HealthcareDOTcom offers new options. I wish them the best of luck.

      • NOTignorant

        Here’s another time where you do not address a point that would hurt your argument. You’re pathetic. In case you’re wondering what I’m talking about, here’s the exact quote: suburbancuurmudgeon said “And what about the reality of 50 million who didn’t have insurance before the ACA? That doesn’t bother you?”

      • strayaway

        I already answered that in the affirmative. Go up and down the thread and you will find my answer in detail. But what does it matter what I think compared with your complicity in driving another 5M , now almost 55M, off their policies. Everything you do backfires and then you want to blame me for what I think? Funny.

      • DobieOwn

        What you keep LYING about is that these people are “without plans”. They are NOT without plans. THey HAVE insurance. It’s the other 50 MILLION AMERICANS that do NOT have plans that you are not concerned about at all. It is people like the lady’s friend with Cancer… it is people like myself that had a life threatening brain tumor that NO INSURANCE COMPANY IN THE U.S. WOULD TOUCH because they did not have to cover me due to their stupid ass laws. SO, were it not for OBAMACARE and the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan that I was ALLOWED to buy so that I could have the life saving surgery to remove my brain tumor then I would not be here today. So, preach about your 5 MILLION that REALLY DO HAVE INSURANCE COVERAGE like the idiot that you are. And, I hope and PRAY that you never have to face a situation where you do not have insurance to help pay for some lifesaving medical necessity that you otherwise cannot afford. People like you simply like to talk to HEAR THEMSELVES talk. You’re not offering anything to this entire diatribe. All you have done is spew bullshit onto this website without offering ANY TYPE OF RESOLUTION to what the TRUE problem is. Again, the problem is not those 5 million that DO have insurance that you are trying to convince everyone about. Very typical of the Republican imbecile that you are. You complain about everything and say “it’s not going to work” yet everyone else sits and and attest that it is working just as it is supposed to. Get a life and do something besides try and make others miserable. You’re a jerk!

      • strayaway

        Congratulations on getting an (un)ACA policy that meets your needs. However, the reality is that 5M Americans have had their insurance policies terminated. To claim otherwise is nonsense. Even the President has been forced into taking dictatorial action to remedy the law. Perhaps those 5M will all do as well as you. Probably not. From what I read some people get lower rates and some higher rates with (un)ACA policies depending on their economic status. Your post does not indicate that you were kicked off of a policy which you claim isn’t happening. Those five million Americans were responsible enough to purchase policies and they wound up on the street without insurance with you even though they had been responsible enough to buy insurance.

        I won’t argue that every one of those policies was a Cadillac policy or that insurance companies are good guys, Neither can I predict that your new policy offered by one of the same insurance companies won’t have a couple of loopholes either. But most of those 5M policies would have paid out.

        I have offered all sorts of resolutions including states setting up truly affordable single payer state plans, reductions in government costs, tort reform, insurance free doctor visits, and paring down the (un)ACA to just the rule about pre-existing conditions and block granting states whatever the federal government is paying. Claiming otherwise makes you a liar or ignorant assuming your personal story is for real to begin with but I will take your word for that.

        I am not trying to make others miserable. Truth will set you free. Ultimately, our economic system will collapse under the weight of lies, corruption, corporatism, and the expanding autocratic police state that you promote. Then you won’t have government freebees because there will be no way our children will be able to afford providing them. I am trying to head that off. Because when it happens, dollars will be worth less and more government promises will be broken. The ongoing peoples revolution in Venezuela is a case in point although I am optimistic that we can partially right ourselves before we get to that point.

        Anyway, congratulations meanwhile on your good fortune and I hope that some of the 5M Americans will do just as well and that you.

      • Reddkl

        More (un)intelligent Strayaway noise.

      • Vj Sleight

        Not always true that these policies cover cancer and/or heart disease. My friend Beth died last week from ovarian cancer. She was self-employed and had carried an individual policy for years. Once she was diagnosed with cancer, her insurance company found a “loophole” in her policy and they denied all claims for cancer treatment and diagnosis. She spend over $100,000 for her cancer treatment but when it came back, the funds were just not available. Six months after she cancelled that policy she was able to get pre-existing condition insurance through ObamaCARES but I have to wonder if she had had more aggressive treatment during those 6 months, would it have made a difference? ObamaCARES closes those “loopholes”. In the past many insurance companies would rather see you die instead of paying for your treatment and lowering their profits.

      • Lablea

        Why don’t you call MSNBC and tell them your story? People are eating up the lies and need to know the real stories, call Rachel Maddow.

      • Vj Sleight

        It’s not my story to tell. It would be up to her husband, not me.

      • strayaway

        Why don’t you stop being arrogant and just let the owners of those policies decide for themselves. if the (un)ACA policy are more to their liking, they will probably change policies. Instead, you break their legs so they will have to get another policy.

      • strayaway

        You are not supposed to call it Obamacare anymore because it reflects poorly on the President. I read that this morning.

        I’ve read articles about people who have cancer who have been cut off their old policies too. Let’s hope that everyone on one of the new (un)ACA coverage gets Cadillac plan coverage. It’s too early to know.

      • Vj Sleight

        In the future, Obama should be given credit for what has changed the lives of so many. and if you notice I call it ObamaCARES–because he does care what happens to millions of us who have been discriminated against for having the audacity to survive cancer.
        The American Cancer Society supports ACA because of the protections for cancer patients.

      • strayaway

        He should be given credit already for the excellence of his rollout, depriving 4.9M Americans of their policies, increasing the cost of the average US family policy, and lowering the standard of living for the average American every year he has been President. Of course the credit might be bad credits. Maybe the ACA and the Peace Prize committee will still be vindicated.

      • Reddkl

        Okay strayaway – NOBODY was deprived of coverage. The policies that were in place for those 5 million people were a JOKE. I guess it’s hard for you to understand that the health insurance industry was taking money and not providing coverage. That’s exactly what they did. JUNK policies are nothing more than legal fraud. Since you seem to support legal fraud, try staying out of the intelligent conversation.

      • strayaway

        One more example of the self-rightious nature of some progressives who would rather have an additional five million Americans going without insurance. Look at yourself in a mirror and say, “The beatings will continue until morale improves”. Your baloney talking points remind me of the logic of Calvinists who burned witches at the stake to purify their souls. The reason those policies were allowed to expire is that new provisions were required of all policies. Some were good and some were nonsense. If the (un)ACA policies are so good in comparison, people will figure that out and be storming the new website to participate in them.

      • Reddkl

        You keep trying to sound intelligent, but it isn’t working.

      • strayaway

        You keep trying to formulate thoughts but it doesn’t seem to be working.

      • Reddkl

        Strayaway – take a look at your feedback. Oh, you can stop with the attack on me now. But, I suspect you won’t and your color will be glaring for all to see. Facts don’t work with you. Simply because you state “opinion” doesn’t make it fact.

      • strayaway

        Not an “attack”, but more of a response to all your idiotic comments. Now I will address this one. You take pride in conformity. You are an ideal sheep. Stay in you own stupid little flock Reddkl. Your shepherd will always do what is good for you. Keep baaaing. Not everyone cares about getting likes. If i did, I wouldn’t visit you. But when bored, it’s fun to see how the sheeple react to facts and numbers. It’s kind of like touching the Koi Pond App on an I-pad.

      • Reddkl

        Another (un)intelligent response. Peppered with junior high-school, colorful insults. lol

      • strayaway

        Fact: somewhere around 5M Americans have been deprived of healthcare insurance since the advent of a law that was supposed to insure Americans.
        Fact: One video has recorded 23 instances of President Obama saying you could keep your healthcare when he was trying to sell it before such promises turned into lies.

        Shall I continue? Any particular subject?

      • Reddkl

        Don’t bother to continue. It’s irrelevant. There were JUNK policies (I believe I explained this before) that offered NOTHING and don’t come up to the law standards. There are less than 4% of the population involved. Yes, Obama said they could keep their policies UNTIL it turned out they don’t qualify as they are policies that are SUBPAR. Do you get it? Or is it too hard to understand? 96% can keep their policies because they are ACTUAL health insurance coverage. I would have to say that 96% accuracy is a pretty good average, wouldn’t you?

      • strayaway

        You make my points that Obama is a liar and that some Progressives would rather see Americans have no policies than ones without bells and whistles. Not every retired person cares to pay for birth control, keeping 26 year olds on their policies, or wants a sex change operation so they don’t want to pay for such things. Your punishment is to deprive them of the things they bought a policy for. Even Obama, acting as dictator, recently told insurance companies that they could keep those policies in force. I would say a lie is a lie. That if he said Americans could keep those policies than there should have been some mechanism in the law to grandfather those policies in.

      • Reddkl

        You’ve not got the intelligence to KNOW anything about health insurance, actuarial tables, benefits, panel lab testing, radiology, etc. SHUT UP until you learn something, if you’re even capable.

      • strayaway

        You are so far out there that you are even disagreeing with the President who has been trying to switch gears in his own charming dictatorial way and let people keep those policies and set back the implementation of small business policies.

      • Cunnivore

        What does your pussy taste like?

      • Cunnivore

        What does your pussy taste like?

      • Ellen P Collingsworth

        When I was a 20 year old and worked at a fast food joint they offered me one of those “plans” which I paid for for myself and my child out of my pay checks. It covered nothing we ever had, the “prescription discount” was a joke and I had to pay out of pocket for everything. My son got stomach flu and as a baby dehydrated rapidly. I took him to the ER in the middle of the night and 0 was covered by my “plan”. The prescription and dental discounts were off of some hyper-inflated rate so after the “discount” the cost was only slightly more than the cash rate. Those 5,000 people should be grateful their policies are getting canceled because the policies are a blatant rip off. I know I would have been ahead of the game just paying out of pocket care. As it was I paid out of pocket for everything anyway and had $90 per month taken out of my pay checks for nothing. The ACA has identified and eliminated an avenue for consumer fraud. Good job!

      • strayaway

        You must think those people are not smart enough to figure that out for themselves. All they have to do is log on to HealthcareDOTcom to find out. The answer is just a few clicks away.

      • NOTignorant

        Do you believe in seat belt laws? And, yes, this absolutely has to do with this conversation. You will see how after you answer the question.

      • strayaway

        The 10th Amendment allows states the latitude to require seat belts. I usually wear my seat belt.

      • Holly Johnson

        I’m one of those people. Our Anthem plan (pre-ACA) was great and affordable at $377 per month. It had a $10,000 deductible but covered 100% once the deductible was reached. We could go to any hospital in our state as well and see nearly any doctor since most take Anthem.
        My plan was cancelled. Now the cheapest option available to me is $800 per month for another Anthem plan with a $10,000 deductible. And, after the deductible, it only covers 60% of costs until the out-of-pocket max is reached. Sure, it has maternity that I don’t need and mental health services that I’ll never use….but it costs twice as much. I’m basically taking a $400 per month paycut and we don’t qualify for a subsidy because we make more than the 94K cutoff for a family of four.
        Other plans available to me range from $800 at the lowest all the way up to $1,500 per month. The $1,500 per month plan has a $2,000 deductible.

      • Vj Sleight

        Are these policies through the exchange or directly through your insurance company?
        You say your old policy was GREAT–but at $377 for a family of four that was a bare bones policy. As an individual my Blue Cross PPO payment was $450/month with a $9000 out of pocket but after I reached that amount (due to cancer treatment), they found ways to deny my claims due to loopholes.
        Be glad your family is healthy and you didn’t need to find out the hard way that your policy wasn’t as great as you thought.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        I know a woman who was paying $1900/month for her and her daughter. Another couple was paying $1250 for COBRA. We paid $900/month for COBRA until my wife got another job. I’m an independent contractor and I don’t qualify for group policies.

        So, where are you? I want to check out Anthem rates in your area.

      • mjr

        What state are you in? If you went through the exchanges, from your breakdown, you chose a bronze plan, and no bronze plan is costing anyone $800/mo. The most that they were guessing at a silver plan for someone that didn’t qualify for subsidies was $667/mo for a silver plan (which covers at 70% after the deductible is met, then until the oop is met) The ‘guesstimates’ have turned out to have been higher to what the actual premiums ended up being, by the way. All of the above, however, is based on what is available through the exchanges. Anthem was one of the plans that was found to have been sending out those cancellation letters on grandfathered plans that didn’t advise their clients they could ‘shop around’ and are currently being sued. I would definitely look to the exchanges, the highest platinum plan premium I could find was just under $500/mo, no deductible. I’m sure you will be able to find a comparable plan for much less than $800/mo.

      • jedbeetle

        Actually, most of them didn’t cover much. Some of those plans would drop the “insured” a month after a cancer diagnosis.

    • suburbancuurmudgeon

      Republicans are also much better at denial, probably because they lack a conscience.

      • strayaway

        Removing the policies of 5m Americans in pursuit of purity is the gold standard of lacking conscience.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Cry me a river. Not giving a rat’s ass about 50 million uninsured is lacking conscience. What was the Republican plan???

      • strayaway

        It should be to follow the 10th Amendment and let the states set up truly AFFORDABLE single payer plans or whatever they want.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        The states have had 100 years to do so.

      • Stephen Barlow

        UNLESS THEY CAN NOT OR REFUSE! THEN it is the responsibility of the Federal Government to police states that violate citizens.

      • strayaway

        Your junior high school civics teacher should have been fired. Read the 10th amendment.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Amendment X
        The
        powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
        prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively,
        or to the people.

        Seems like a lot of wiggle room there.

      • strayaway

        Find the wording delegating providing health care, running a national health care system, or the like in the Constitution. If you can’t, then states do have a lot of wiggle room. Vote in a state wide single payer plan if you wish.

      • AfricanAtlantian

        They’ve tried that for oh about 60 YEARS, NOW. If the states were going to do something, they would have done it by now. The federal government is practically THROWING MONEY at the states to expand their state-run health plans. At least one state is doing exactly as you thought. They’re taking the federal money and setting up their own single-payer system for their state.

      • strayaway

        The federal government is $17T in debt. It has to print money and bill it to our kids tho throw at anyone. Massachusetts has and other states have more limited policies for poor people. Must I repeat that Vermont was thwarted in the AFFORDABLE aspect of instituting a real single payer plan by (un)ACA bureaucrats? There are generally two goals of health reform; universality and affordability. Both the (un)ACA and the thwarted Vermont single payer plan expand universality. Both fail as being affordable.

      • RyFromCanada

        You know they dont actually PRINT all the money they need to pay bills, right?

      • strayaway

        Yes, i am very aware of that. You know that inflating the money supply will eventually dilute and devalue money don’t you besides having to pay interest on that money? I calculated that if the 120M US taxpayers ever again have to pay just average interest rates of 5.85%, they will have to pay an average of $8,200 each just for the $17T and growing debt. There really won’t be money left over for the military, social security, welfare and other government spending. The options are to print faster, cut services, and/or raise taxes. We know that the first choice is most likely. It worked out so well for a while in the Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe.

      • http://www.the-pet-butler.com Sherrie Roberts

        ha ha…..glad you noticed that. Good catch!

      • strayaway

        Ry, you are soooo clever.Yes, you are aware of figurative language aren’t you?Whether $85B/month is printed and handed to banks as paper or as computer digits, the damage to the monetary supply is the same. More dollars pursuing the same number of goods and services leads to higher prices. So far, the most dramatic effects have been in the prices of stocks, art pieces, expensive homes, and other luxury items as this money has profited the 1% who you seem to champion on this issue.

      • Why5ks

        this printing money is a bogus argument that the Teabillies, Rush, Beck and FauxNews keep spreading. They know it isn’t true, but they also know their followers aren’t likely to investigate the truth. Their reasoning for this myth is that the price of gold is so high. Even though historically after every depression and recession the price of precious metal goes up. The fear factor cause people to seek real assets over paper commodities, makes you wonder why the spokespeople for places like companies that sell gold are continually spreading the fear? Wait, they will point out that it didn’t happen after the Great Depression so that negates the historical argument: WRONG. Worldwide the price of precious metals did rise after the Great Depression, but since ownership of gold had been outlawed in the US the demand was legislatively thwarted. As for the government being $17 trillion in debt, you do realize more than $11 trillion of that is owed to the American people in the form. And the ACA is actually helping reduce the debt, I know that doesn’t play well in Conservative circle but read what the CBO has to say about it. If we stop ObamaCare now it will more than double every annual deficit for the foreseeable future. And if you truly think ACA doesn’t address accessibility and affordability than you have no idea what the ACA really is. Maybe you need to spend time on sites trying to undercut the law and the sites that actually detail what it is offering.

      • strayaway

        I didn’t even mention gold. that is your tangent. I was referring to a larger supply of dollars chasing after a static amount of goods and services. The Law of Supply and Demand says the result till be higher prices, That is what is happening again in the stock market. A bubble is forming. $85B/month has to go somewhere. It goes to the rich to make themselves richer.

        The $11T still has to be repaid. Just because Clinton removed a couple of trillion dollars from Social Security funds doesn’t mean it doesn’t have to re repaid. If Social Security recipients are to ever be paid, someone is going to have to repay what Clinton borrowed to balance his budget and other federal forms of fiscal cannibalism.

        The (un)ACA is not going to reduce the debt. Believe what you want but it’s rollout has not suggested that it will do so. Democrats are already talking about extra taxes because the young people who were supposed to subsidize this thing aren’t signing up. The website cost $600M and doesn’t work. More money will have to be thrown in this hole to make it work but at less than its promised efficiency.

      • Why5ks

        nice try but it was Reagan who stole, sorry borrowed most of the money, from the Social Security Trust Fund. You remember the President who said, “One half the budget will go to domestic spending, one half will go to defense, and the other half will go to pay off the debt.” Funny how a man who ran on a balanced budget platform was never able to do it. Then again, that is how all Republicans since Eisenhower have been. Yes, Reagans huge excesses in spending had to be minimized so he started using the excesses in the SSI Trust Fund to show a somewhat balanced budget.. As for your bubble in the stock market it isn’t caused by excess printing of money as you say. If we were printing excess money the US dollar would be worthless international and there would be uncontrollable inflation domestically. I said Republicans use the high price of gold as one of the arguments to prove we are printing money. But since that isn’t happening too bad. What is causing the stock market bubble is the fact that companies are increasing their profitability by not updating infrastructure and cutting employees. It isn’t being achieved through increased production from increased demand. That is the recipe for disaster.

      • strayaway

        Last time you posted you went of on a rant about gold. this time you want to talk about Reagan. Do you have a problem with staying on topic? I agree that Reagan was a big spender. Obama is worse. So what’s your point? The dollar is becoming worth less internationally against most currencies even though other countries also print money for their own short term purposes. I see higher prices in education, the grocery store, and health insurance costs. Government statistics have been adjusted to not reflect the actual amount of inflation. We don’t have hyper inflation yet if that is what you mean. I’ll stick with the fed induced bubble as my better explanation of why stock prices are climbing. The NASDAQ bubble and the housing bubble were caused by the sam thing.

        The Fed is owned by megabanks. The Fed prints money and hands it to its owner banks that loan it out for interest. It’s a nice racket. The owners of the big banks profit from loaning money they printed. Keep cheer leading for the 1%. Some of it may eventually trickle down to you. Meanwhile, the 1% don’t know what to do with all their money so they invest.

      • melloe

        Actually, in the couple rants, there are a few things you don’t have close to right ( well it is to the right, but not correct )1. Reagan was the worst spender historically, followed closely by Bush Jr. Obama OTOH has been historically one ot the lowest despite the several Trillion dumped on his budgets from spending Bush did not budget such as Medicare part “D” and Iraq /Afghanistan conflict. The there is the starting National debt interest olf about 280 or 90 Billion a year on the 12 trilliion or more he ( Obama ) inherited 2. You are sorta correct that the Fed is handing out Money, ( Mostly Loans )but it is not being printed in most cases. That is not the way it works any more. ( yes I suspect you meant the “printed” figuratively ) 3. And no, nothing is going to trickle down,,,30 plus years have proven that. They will just move it off shore.

      • strayaway

        Calculating inflation at 280% since Reagan, Reagan, perhaps revealing his Democratic roots, increased the debt more over his eight years but Obama should have no trouble surpassing Reagan. Bush raised the federal debt by about $4T over eight years. Obama $7T over just over four years. Are you suggesting shutting down Medicare Part D? If not then why complain? Iraq and Afghanistan are now the Bush/Obama wars. Why are we still in Afghanistan? Obama inherited $10T of debt and contributed an additional $7T. 41%+ of the national debt has occurred under Obama. Trickle down is not something I mentioned or advocated.

        The Fed “prints” money and gives the money to its owner banks for about .25% interest. The owner banks lend it out at about 4%. It’s a nice racket for the owners of those banks and the politicians they buy to keep their game going.Except for about a dozen people in Congress, three of whom are Democrats, I don’t see anyone trying to end the fed. I will have to put parentheses around the word “printed” to prevent some people around here, not you, from thinking themselves too clever.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Here;s how it will reduced the debt. Health care is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest federal budget item, because the Feds are the single largest purchaser of health care. It’s the first step to a single-payor system, which will control prices; otherwise, it’s a free for all with everyone trying to get as much money as they can out of the system.

      • strayaway

        Single payer won’t be affordable if the trial lawyers, insurance company profits, and bureaucrats remain. Who is leading the charge to get rid of the trial lawyers? Don’t count on much happening except more corporatist profits until then.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Thank you for mentioning to whom we actually owe money–ourselves.

      • Stephen Barlow

        That’s what, 70% of the national Debt? in treasuries held in IRA, 401K and pension plans? By insurance companies as collateral and by banks as a legal requirement?

      • Steve

        A $10,000 deductible and $11,400 in yearly premiums. So I’m into it for $21,400 before my insurance picks up a dime…..great plan. From what I have found, this is the norm. What say you?

      • chcurtis

        I say you haven’t actually looked at the plans. Either that, or you make more than a quarter-million a year.

      • ladyr65

        That is what I am finding. I compared apples to apples, the plan I have now with a similar plan in AFA. I would have to pay an additional $445 a month than what I am paying now. Yes, I have actually looked at the plans not only for myself but also for my future Daughter in Law and for her the basic minimum would be $149 a month which means 60% of her total bill would be paid after an astronomical deductible, she earns $26,000 a year so she will not qualify for anything from the state. You know how she is going to resolve it, get married early to go on my son’s insurance plan! So don’t tell me about this wonderful AFA, my family and many like mine are in the same predicament and we are in no way “super rich”, mildly rich or any other type of rich, we are lower-middle class people who work our butts off everyday for everything that we have! Yes, I am angry.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Then I guess you BOTH better sign up for the GOP Health Plan:

        JUST DON’T GET SICK!

      • FD Brian

        My insurance provider offered me 11 new plans, 9 of them were less than the $1,222/month I am currently spending with varying degrees of deductibles and 2 plans that were a little more with deductibles much less than i currently pay.

      • FD Brian

        My insurance provider offered me 11 new plans, 9 of them were less than the $1,222/month I am currently spending with varying degrees of deductibles and 2 plans that were a little more with deductibles much less than i currently pay.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Two days in the hospital and you are off the hook. So get sick but don’t die.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Better off just paying the escape fee of $1700 and sign up for the gloriously universal GOP health Plan:

        JUST DON’T GET SICK PUP!

      • regressive rightwing trash

        to quote the SAINT of the crybaby regressive party RONALD “headrest” REAGAN,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ” there U go again” ( using facts to annoy a white trash regressive repub)

      • Maxine Blanchette

        Thank you so much for explaining this to us we need more of you out there telling it like it is. Because most of these folks are brain wash about the ACA and the GOP’s feed on their fears with false information.

      • JEREMY

        You mean like the fear that the world will end if we don’t start driving hybrids? LMAO

      • Stephen Barlow

        Gold has dropped 35% in the last year or so, which tells you the economy is stable and investments in progress is less risky than selling your jewelry for 1/450th of an ounce of gold.

      • JEREMY

        I’m beginning to think someone here hasn’t read a book since they dropped out of high school. Yes the Federal Reserve prints money. It’s also a privately owned company. The value of the dollar is in fact going down and the value of gold and silver is going up. It’s going up like most Americans Health premiums after Obamacare. Perhaps you could stand to do some actual research as opposed to relying on pathetic websites like this one to get your information.

      • Why5ks

        Jeremy, maybe you should do some reading beyond the screenshots on FauxNews. The value of the dollar has fallen over the past 2 year as compared to the Euro, but compared to non-European currencies it has been rising constantly. Also the price of precious metal did skyrocket during the recession, that is a historically expected reaction to financial troubles. But the gold is down almost 33%, from its all time high, over the past year. If I’m a HS dropout then you must be a kindergarten flunk out. Because all analytical shows that healthcare policies are going up at a slower rate then they have over the past 20 years. Doesn’t matter how often you Teabillies repeat a lie it still doesn’t make it true. As for using pathetic websites, the only news site that I know that has argued in court, and won the case, that they had a right to lie in their reporting is FauxNews. How much more pathetic could a news site be, so I never use them.

      • JEREMY

        I always find it hilarious how you LEFTARDS know more about what Fox News reports than the people you accuse of watching Fox News. Obamacare is a disaster and he knew he was lying when he said “if you like your plan you can keep it.” The value of the dollar has gone down due to hyper inflation. Something people like you know nothing about. Considering the fact that you voted for Obama twice, you’re of no moral authority to attempt to school anyone. Stop living off my taxpayer dollars and read a book. You’re no progressive. Real progressives oppose government intrusion, the irs, among other things regardless of what party implements it. You’re just a cheerleader for the Obama administration.

      • Why5ks

        I find it astronomically comical that all of a sudden that you idiots refer to a quote as a complete disaster. Show me in the law where it says that the insurance companies are required to cancel policies? Which brings me to question where has your outrage been for years as millions of people had policies cancelled for years because they were sick and insurance companies dropped them all in the name of profit. It is amazing that all of the conservative world is in an uproar over 3 to 5 million people who have to get new policies (which most would get cheaper if they would research their options). When they weren’t all that worried about the 50+ million who had no insurance available to them prior to ACA. Also, where is the Republicans concern over the 7 to 10 million people who would be covered by the Medicare expansion, but now still have no insurance coverage. If there is a failure in ACA the Republican obstructionists are just as responsible for it as anyone else. I guess you expected it role out without any glitches, you know just like the Medicare Part D program did…NOT. It is amazing how you accuse me of so much but don’t know me. You also have no clue what a Progressive is, because Progressives are a far more varied group of people than Conservatives are. So considering I have never lived off your taxpayer dollars, I have worked for over 40 years and raised 7 kids without relying on help either. In reality, I am a center right Independent. I’m tired of everyone using hyperbole and lies to mislabel things they don’t agree with. I don’t get much chance to lance the lies of liberals because the moronic TeaPartiers dominate the headlines and the troll networks trying to mislead people like you are doing.

      • Reddkl

        Jeremy – here you go with the name-calling and attacks because someone doesn’t agree with you. Please, please, stop with the junior high-school behavior. Why5ks is right and has stated FACT. Simply because you don’t agree with FACT (a typical conservative behavior) doesn’t make it incorrect.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Truth never plays well with fear mongering liars!!

      • artdude102

        and how much of that chunk is owned- rung up by the good ole boys from the GOP- a HUGE chunk of it.

      • strayaway

        Probably and another big chunk is probably owned by Democrats.

      • http://www.modernwhig.org/ Gene Chaas

        Two goals but three “systemic” pillars, access, cost and quality.

      • Stephen Barlow

        They could have been billing it to the corporations, who take home 70% of the GDP.

        Sorry you math is so faulty. The ACA is affordable to 75% of applicants. if you don’t like your options, get a Union job, move to Sudan, or pay your measly $2000 SHARE of emergency room as office visits those like you without insurance burden the rest of us with.

        Either way, STFU.

      • strayaway

        STFU? Wow, you sound so authoritarian. I like that when you make supporters of the (un)ACA sound so authoritarian. If the (un)ACA is only affordable to 75% of applicants, that is worse than policies prior to the (un)ACA when it was estimated that between 30-50M Americans had no health insurance out of 314M. That was, of course, before the (un)ACA caused 5M Americans to lose their health care coverage.

      • laytonian

        There is NoTHING stopping the states from doing that.
        They never have, they never will.
        They are completely incapable of doing so.

      • strayaway

        Romneycare, Medi-Cal, and a similar range of programs operate in most , if not all, states already. Vermont is putting together a less than affordable single payer plan. So you are wrong that states never have.

      • Reddkl

        Stray – you do realize that Medi-Cal is Medicaid, don’t you?

      • strayaway

        “Medicare is a federally governed health insurance program. Medi-Cal, California’s Medicaid program, is an assistance program governed by the State of California and financed equally by the state and federal governments.” -Californians for Patient Care

        I didn’t realize that the federal government is paying 50% though. That really doesn’t make sense. California should pay closer to 100%. It is a rich state to begin with. Why shift federal tax dollars to DC, let federal bureaucrats take a slice of it, and then ship the remainder back to California?

      • Stephen Barlow

        But a national minimum standard makes sense. Like auto safety requirements because people drive in all 50 states, People move and travel and get sick and injured in more than one jurisdiction.

      • strayaway

        States already recognize each others degrees, licenses, and training to the extent that they choose. Each state however has its own peculiar laws such as how old drivers have to be. It is in each individual state’s interest to cooperate with neighboring state. Sometimes, it in the interest of states to have agreements with only some states in some matter such as setting up mutual in-state tuition or accepting each other’s medical doctor certification. The role of the federal government in sticking its nose into everything is overrated and often unauthorized by the 10th Amendment. Consider Underwriters Laboratory standards which some states adopt.

      • Stephen Barlow

        But they DON’T!!!! They ARE sometimes FORCED to intercede on behalf of citizens when an industry is as egregiously fraudulent as insurance is.

      • strayaway

        I’m not sure who “they” refers to. Assuming you mean the federal government, I disagree. Either that or we have to ignore the Constitution or amend it. States already have governments. I recently used my State’s Office of the Commissioner of Insurance to write a letter to my health care insurance company which was being unreasonable. The letter produced a $99 check from my insurance company. That’s anecdotal and relatively trivial but states have the tools to perform such tasks. Whether or not a particular state government performs well is no different than if the federal government performs well. Both are subject to corruption . The (un)ACA legislation was spearheaded by someone in Senator Baucus’ office who used to be a VP at Wellpoint and has since gone back through the revolving door to some big position at Johnson and Johnson. I’m not sure if insurance companies having a huge hand in writing the (un)ACA is exactly fraudulent but it does seem like a major conflict of interest. Where is the relief from that?

      • Stephen Barlow

        The irrelevance of you anecdote aside,

        SO a SINGLE individual that you know jack about… makes WHAT actual significant difference?

        Could it just actually be that he EARNED a better job through his performance in his previous post?

        Do you have ANY SPECIFIC EVIDENCE, or are you just slandering an anonymous (considering you haven’t named him for Me to research and verify you claims) ex public servant?

        This is why a discussion with you is pointless. you operate under a FACTLESS agenda or GOPartisanship.

        When you can man up some FACTS for an adult conversation… I’ll be glad don a HAZMAT suit and allow your infection to invade My personal space a bit more.

        Until then, accept your grossly ignorant prejudices and continue your baseless, factless rambings at you next KLAN meeting with those who chew the same polluted cud as you do.

      • strayaway

        My anecdote was to point out that state governments do have tools to regulate insurance companies that do work and that like others, I have my fights to pick with insurance companies.

        I don’t know who the “he” is that you mentioned. I didn’t mention sex. Did you presume that anyone competent had to be male? The person I was referring to is Liz Fowler a former Wellpoint VP. I’ll let Sen. Baucus describe her since “FACTS” are a bit deficient at your end. “I wish to single out one person, and that one person is sitting next to me. Her name is Liz Fowler. Liz Fowler is my chief health counsel. Liz Fowler has put my health care team together. Liz Fowler worked for me many years ago, left for the private sector, and then came back when she realized she could be there at the creation of health care reform because she wanted that to be, in a certain sense, her profession lifetime goal. She put together the White Paper last November–2008–the 87-page document which became the basis, the foundation, the blueprint from which almost all health care measures in all bills on both sides of the aisle came.”

        What more prefect example of a revolving door except perhaps all the Goldman-Sachs and Monsanto executives in both the Bush and Obama administrations.

        Face it, your advocacy of big government is the advocacy, in this case, of corporatism. That’s the nice name for economic fascism; the collusion of big government and big business. An insurance VP was brought in to write the outline of the (un)ACA. You could have Googled Liz Fowler’s name yourself instead of producing the” KLAN” insult to cloak your ignorance.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Having the tools and using them for the public (as opposed to corporate) good are two different things. you were selling that minor point so hard, you missed the whole trainload of reality that ran you over.

        Gender is irrelevant, considering your biggest selling point about the anonymous person you alluded to is that they are “corrupt”.

        I don’t advocate big government, that is ALL YOU, inserting your ‘FOX GOSPEL’ agenda onto me. You sh*t your self, you clean yourself up!

        Are you saying that Liz Fowler was UNQUALIFIED? That she SLEPT with Sen Baucus to get her job?
        PLEASE LIST THE EVIDENCE OF HER INCOMPETENCE:

        ____
        ____
        ____

        List THREE instances of incompetence.
        if you have a GENUINE argument, list whom YOU would have chosen in her stead,

        “Liz Fowler worked for me many years ago, left for the private sector, and then came back when she realized she could be there at the creation of health care reform because she wanted that to be, in a certain sense, her profession lifetime goal.”

        Sounds like you are the one suffering from delusions. She LEFT PRIVATE INDUSTRY, to become a public servant for the SECOND TIME…

        DO I think that ANY insurance industry involvement in a plan to solve long standing insurance should be scrutinized as highly suspect? YES!

        Which is why I believed a complete expansion of Medicare down to 45 and Medicaid UP to 250% of poverty would have been a much more comprehensive solution. A) the infrastructure was already successful, all it would have needed was server space and personnel (that’s JOBS because I know Republicans never understood the other word for WORK). B) it would cover those in need and not disrupt those stupid enough to buy useless policies. C) the issues of pre-existing conditions, life-time limits and cancelations for getting sick could very easily been legislated ala carte. (which they should have been 50 years ago)

        So SUCK that Republican Rubber Stamp about ‘big government’ until it squirts in your mouth!

      • strayaway

        You have done some imaginative interpretation and reading comprehension. I only brought up gender because you had wrongly referred to this person as male. You are missing or maybe accepting the concept of the revolving door; of a government bureaucracy run by people from Monsanto, Goldman-Sachs, and the insurance companies. I’m wondering if you even have the concept of the dangers of a revolving door. You seem ok with that. I’m not. Fox is on your side on this one as Fox has never been anti-ccorporatism. Nice try on trying to smear me with Fox though.

        I am certainly not saying Liz Fowler was incompetent. To suggest I did reflects on you reading comprehension. I let Sen. Baucus, in his own words, laud her competency. Nor does attaining high position in major corporations suggest incompetency. She did her job for the insurance companies as well as anyone could have I suppose. I wouldn’t have chosen anyone in her stead, but I would have instead constitutionally (10th Amendment/delegated powers) developed state health care programs such as MA did and Vermont attempted to do. Yes, I realize that Judge Roberts declared the (un)ACA constitutional because the federal government can tax. I don’t, however, think the federal government should be involved at this level and will strive to overturn this turkey in my limited capacity to do so.

        With five million having lost their policies because of the (un)ACA, this turkey isn’t, so far, making many friends for Democrats. At least three new (un)ACA taxes will begin in 2014. The (un)ACA’s only good news is are the un-transparent numbers given by the administration measuring people who have put (un)ACA policies in their carts without, so far, all paying for them. Some of them were forced out of their existing policies and the majority of them are on Medicaid which won’t pay for the (un)ACA. To make the numbers work out better, 14% is being cut from Medicaid, the maximum allowed under this law, and transferred into funding the (un)ACA. Home health care workers are also being cut back forcing people into more expensive care. This is a disaster and Democrats should be made to pay for it.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Wanna tell me all about those ENRON boys Bush set up in the DOE while they were mid-scam?

      • strayaway

        Not particularly. I would like Bush to be occupying a prison cell with Barack Obama for such things; particularly the wars based on lies and other lies.

      • Stephen Barlow

        The actual similarity being that Obama PERSONALLY appointed which criminals with full knowledge and participation in their criminal conspiracy and activities?

      • regressive rightwing trash

        see my above post for an answer

      • Stephen Barlow

        JUST DON’T GET SICK!!!!!

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        I thought it was “If you get sick, die quickly.”

      • Stephen Barlow

        LMAO! it’a always about the 10% at the expense of the 90% with THEM.

      • Jack Hoft

        to keep the money for them selves.

      • Shasta

        Whats not being said is those 5 million who lost their policies because it didnt follow the aca standard, would have received the same and lot more better and cheaper policy under the aca. You people need quit listening to these people who are pretending that they are looking out for you. These are rich people who want to keep at the bottom of the pole.

      • strayaway

        I’m with you. Just a few clicks on HealthcareDOTcom is all they need to get cheaper better coverage with all the bells and whistles they don’t need. You need to stop hurting peole by taking away what they do have and leaving them destitute because of your arrogance.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Who is destitute? Why are these people not getting better plans? Have they even tried? Are they going to hold their breaths and turn blue?

      • strayaway

        Having no health insurance. They wouldn’t have to try to swim if the President hadn’t thrown them overboard.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Who has no health insurance, other than the 50 million who haven’t had it for decades? Show me some actual people.

      • strayaway

        Do you Google search. Does your 50M number include illegal aliens? I remember that when President Obama promised that his plan would not cover illegal aliens, that the number who were supposed to be insured went down about 8M to make the numbers work better. But I’, thining he was talking more about insuring something like 38M and promising everyone else could keep their policies.

      • http://www.the-pet-butler.com Sherrie Roberts

        God, you are so many shades of stupid.

      • strayaway

        You intellect might be so vacuous that it appears so.

      • http://www.the-pet-butler.com Sherrie Roberts

        Do you even KNOW what these plan offer? You are shooting off your mouth like you have reviewed each and every plan offered by each and every state. I’m getting the feeling that your factual input comes from Faux Noise and any other trash you have read online against our President and this ACA. At this point, I think you need to find a medical plan that covers hot air coming out of your mouth, or BS coming out of your rear. Might be pretty expensive, but it would save the rest of us from listening to your hot-air BS.

      • strayaway

        I love it when idiots assume I watch fox news. Sorry to disappoint your faulty presumptions but i seldom watch TV and start my day with BBC news. Your expressed desire for censorship is so very liberal. Economist Friedrich Hayek noted that when the planners’ plans fail, they resort to censorship and punishment.

        Just to shred your belief system a bit more, today I read that Baxter, a dog, was mistakenly enrolled; a password being confused for the intended owner’s name. Computer security experts testified today before Congress that security was so horrible that they recommended waiting a while before going online at HealthcareDOTcom although they didn’t see how it was going to be fixed for a variety of technical reasons. The CEO of Wellpoint, the second largest medical insurer in this Country said that Wellpoint has suspended advertising its new (un)ACA plans for awhile because enrollment was so low. I’m sure that being as informed as you are, you must have come across those stories. I am glad for Baxter of course.

      • http://www.the-pet-butler.com Sherrie Roberts

        Totally agree, Shasta The Law reads that the policies are grandfathered if nothing changes (it has a tic-list). The insurance companies found a way to bilk folks out of MORE money for these junk policies by cancelling and offering others, none of which were equivalent to what the marketplaces are offering for same or less money.

      • jedbeetle

        You just helped prove Sean’s point.

      • RyFromCanada

        removing policies that cover nothing, and policies that insurers use to take money but never provide service isnt really removing much.

      • strayaway

        You have been reading too many Democratic party talking points. It’s true that single young males and retirees weren’t covered by family planning options, insuring 26 year olds on their policies, or having optional sex changes, but maybe they didn’t want to pay extra for things they weren’t ever going to use. Now they have to. So if you want to define that as covering nothing, that is your definition, not the definition of the purchasers. But you obviously know more than they do about what they want and need.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Nope, everyone needs insurance so I don’t end up paying for some idiot young and stupid who gets into a car wreck without health insurance.

      • Robert Castro

        oh my god you are stupid, you are still paying for those people , your rates will go up to cover those who are sick

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        And rates haven’t gone up before the ACA??? Get real. And that is why EVERYONE needs to buy insurance. That’s how it works; the many subsidize the few.

        Year-Premium-% increase

        1999 – $5791 —
        2000 – $6438 11%
        2001 – $7061 9%
        2002 – $8003 13%
        2003 – $9068 13%
        2004 – $9950 9%
        2005 – $10880 9%
        2006 – $11480 5%
        2007 – $12106 5%
        2008 – $12680 4%
        2009 – $13375 5%
        2010 – $13770 2%
        2011 – $15073 12%
        2012 – $15745 4%
        2013 – $16351 4%

      • chcurtis

        The government didn’t remove any policies.
        The insurance companies canceled substandard policies rather than modify them to meet the minimumstandards. Any policies canceled by the insurance companies right now are entirely because the insurance companies a) didn’t believe the ACA would become law (which is why they’ve done nothing in the three years they’ve already known of the changes), b) want to make a policial statement (which is why they are canceling grandfathered policies rather than working to make them meet the standards), and c) they can unilaterally get out from under plans that they think will be unprofitable in the future and blame it on the ACA.

      • strayaway

        I’m ok with your first couple of sentences. Modifying those policies would have meant extra coverage. Extra coverage would mean higher cost to insure additional new requirements. So the insurance companies are offering new policies at higher costs. If those don’t sell, then presumably it is because their former customers bought a policy somewhere else. Chasing away customers to make a political statement is a bit of a stretch I think. Your last sentence makes sense but need not go further than not wanting to waste time and money on anything unprofitable.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        dammnit!! someone PLEASE change strayaways diapers???

      • strayaway

        If only RRT’s logic and use of statistics equaled his/her level of anal fixation.

      • strayaway

        Omama deprived 5M Americans of health insurance, not Republicans.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        No, the insurance companies deprived 5 million Americans of insurance. The standards don’t go into effect until January 1, 2014. THEY are cancelling the plans and being cagey about replacement plans. And you still were never concerned about the 50 million without insurance. Why is that???

      • strayaway

        Democratic talking points baloney. Actually, I am very concerned that whatever number plus the 5M you just added, don’t have insurance. State single payer policies and more health freedom policies from the other direction would cut cost dramatically so more or all could be afford medical care but you elected Obama.

      • TomA

        State single payer policies, like the Medicaid expansion that all Republican states are refusing to accept? And talking point my ass, not only are insurance companies unnecessarily dropping people, they are AUTOMATICALLY enrolling them in over priced policies. But, it must be the ACA’s fault, because insurance companies have nothing but our best interests in mind, right?

      • strayaway

        I think you make a good point about medicaid being sort of a single payer plan. It could be an easy stepping off point for any state that wanted to uses it as a template to have their own single payer plan. You don’t seem to understand, thought, that insurance companies were required to add features not included in their existing plans. Thus, they have to shut them down at the end of the policy year. It would have been so simple to grandfather these policies in instead of turning the President into a liar.

      • Why5ks

        no strayaway what you don’t understand is what those things were was anything but an insurance policy. The Federal Government does have a vested interest through the commerce clause to ensure that things labeled as health insurance are actually meeting a minimum requirement. I guess you missed that in the Supreme Court’s ruling. I think their 10th grade civics teachers were better than yours.

      • strayaway

        Roosevelt’s Supreme Court ruled against a farmer who fed his wheat to his own animals claiming it was a violation of the commerce clause. Liberals can justify anything with either the commerce clause or the general welfare clause which raises the question why we even need the rest of the Constitution since imaginative applications of those two clauses override the rest of it anyway. The Supreme Court also recently ruled that corporations are people. I am sure you are ok with that too. However, the 10th Amendment is much more specific than the commerce clause. Specifics are supposed to outweigh generalities in law. The Supreme Court ruled that the Commerce Clause did not apply to the (un)ACA so you were wrong about that too. However, its invention was that the (un)ACA was constitutional because it was a tax, and Congress has the power to tax.

        One poster here suggested that because Congress could tax, it met 10th Amendment requirements. If that is the justification, it is a recipe for fascism. If the federal government can force people to buy corporate insurance policies, there is nothing stopping the government from forcing Americans to purchase other goods and services. The shakedown has begun. Welcome to the Kleptocracy.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Why is it the state forces you to buy auto insurance to drive and the bank forces you to buy homeowner’s insurance if you want a mortgage and you never complain about that?

      • strayaway

        States are allowed to do so under the 10th Amendment.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Yeah, because the same insurance companies were selling these crap plans to people making them believe they had “insurance.” So now they have to offer standardized plans. Maybe not perfect but better than shtupping unsuspecting people.

      • NOTignorant

        So, why aren’t you addressing the fact that Republican Governors are keeping the Medicaid expansion out of their states?

      • strayaway

        No one asked me to do so but I will for you.The (un)ACA lets each state decide if it wants to run its own system with some federal money promised for several years or if it wants the federal government to do it. That’s the law. Republican governors seem to be concerned that since there isn’t a long term commitment of the federal government to pay for this, that their states might eventually wind up with huge new costs.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        So you might want to read this article about how the Republicans screwed themselves out of a chance to try things in state-run exchanges.

        http://prospect DOT org/article/how-republicans-lost-chance-win-obamacare

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        And you are seriously delusional if you think ANYTHING is going to cut costs. You really think doctors, hospitals, drug companies and medical device companies are going to agree to less money??? Get real.

      • strayaway

        They did in Canada. Doctors don’t get sued there to the same extent so they don’t have to purchase liability insurance. So they can afford to work for a lot less.

      • justthebest

        and can commit malpractice with abandon, as there are few repercussions. Malpractice suits are what keep us relatively safe from incompetent doctors.

      • strayaway

        No. In Canada, if a doctor makes a mistake, he/she is disciplined by other doctors. Since single payer is already paid for, the provincial single payer plan does what it can to fix any such error with a corrective operation or whatever it takes. Are you going to miss high unaffordable rates all the lawsuit fun is taking out of medicine?

      • justthebest

        And, just how many states were providing these policies? hmmm?

      • strayaway

        MA had Romneycare. Wisconsin has Badgercare, Vermont is working on a not very affordable single payer plan. California has Medi-Cal. Without doing research for you, that is what comes to mind. What’s your point, that state Democrat have been lounging about hoping the federal government will do the work?

      • justthebest

        No, that after 30-40 years of this crisis getting worse every year, maybe 3-4 states have made any attempt to do anything at all. And, none of the states you list have actual single-payer systems like most civilized countries.

      • strayaway

        Vermont tried and was allowed half a loaf. I talked to a Blue Cross representative once who told me that Wisconsin once tried to institute a broader health care plan but lobbyists flooded the State capitol and threw enough money around that it was stopped. If a number of Democratic leaning states were to simultaneously try to do the same thing, it would split the lobbyists’ efforts. I’m sure they would all prefer to stay in Washington and finesse their national plan. As Vermont discovered, it is difficult getting the state plan it wished for with washington calling the shots.

      • Stephen Barlow

        It’s their MO for every crime they have perpetrated since the Burglary of the DNC @ Waterloo.

        ‘I am not a crook!’

        “I didn’t know Ollie North sold guns and bought drugs.”

        “We didn’t know that intelligence briefs were NOT just coffee table decorations. We though Laura put them their for creative nuance.”

        “We didn’t know we created faulty intelligence on WMD’s.”

      • laytonian

        “I don’t remember”

        – Ronald Reagan
        97 times, at the Iran-Contra hearings

      • FD Brian

        In Reagan’s defense he probably had the beginnings of Alzheimer disease the last 2 years of his term.

      • Suzanne Longo

        I believe you are right. I also think George H.W. Bush was running the country those last two years. At some point the truth will come out. This an excellent reason why Presidential candidates need a running mate that knows how to run our country in an emergency. No more Sarah Palins.

      • Stephen Barlow

        nancy’s psychic was taking the tough calls.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Which is what the 25th Amendment does to a disabled, non functional President. It removes them from office. but since no majority would vote for the hearings… just like there are not enough Democrats to impeach Ted Cruz, or John Boehner… Nothing happened.

      • FD Brian

        In Reagan’s defense he probably had the beginnings of Alzheimer disease the last 2 years of his term.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Alzheimer’s does that to people. We should have begun impeachment hearings on his failing abilities.

      • SparkyBtheWonderDog

        But, as it later turns out, he did have a ‘reason for not remembering anything’.

      • Stephen Barlow

        YEAH! HE WAS A FUCKING CROOK!!!!

    • Mtman1944

      I agree with Sean, Dems have got to get better with spin, I guess that this comes from not having to lie all the time. The other thing that they have to do is tell Nancy Pelosi to STFU, she sure didn’t help the ACA along when it was being voted on, and the Dems REALLY hosed things up in 2009 when they had a chance to pass single payer instead of trying to get Repubs to vote for the ACA.

    • Mtman1944

      One more thing, Dems need to stop calling it “Obamacare” that was a label created by the tea party candidates in an attempt to tie it to Obama as a socialistic policy. Call it by what it is, PPACA.

      • Jérôme

        Give it a rest! Calling it Obamacare is pretty mainstream at this point, your efforts to butt it out of existence is only proving to make people look at you and think YOU are trying to make a spin on it. It’s Obamacare then, Obamacare now, and will remain Obamacare for future generations that recall on the failed stack of papers that was the PPACA. Like it or not, the bill was dead on arrival because the Republican Party did a decent, albeit quite deceitful, job at killing support for it. Young people are most likely going to refuse the mandate because they either support single-payer or freedom of choice. These laws are either a failed attempt or stepping stone to single-payer, and we need to do what we can when insurance companies begin going bankrupt in the next 10 years.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Uh, it’s not a bill. It’s a law.

      • Jérôme

        I put emphasis on the bill WAS dead on arrival, as in, when it was a bill, the Republicans were campaigning quite hard against with death panels and the like.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        But we like calling it Obamacare because it takes the power away from the Republicans. I’m happy we have “Obamacare!” I’d be happier if we had a single payor.

      • strayaway

        You are behind the curve. Democrats are no longer referring to the (un)ACA as Obamacare because the problems associated with it are dragging the President’s numbers down at this point.

      • http://www.the-pet-butler.com Sherrie Roberts

        They have in many states. After that hilarious video interviewing people who were asked “what do you like better, Obamacare or the Affordable Health Care Act”…answer was overwhelmingly “the ACA”. Can’t get that many shades of stupid if you had an open IQ pallet.

      • Mtman1944

        Yes, so sad, Idiocracy in real life. Even more concerning is that these are the very same folks that benefit from the PPACA, but let fear rule and cloud their view.

    • Suzie

      I don’t want more “spin” on anything from EITHER PARTY. All I want is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Why is that so difficult for the media? I am an honest person, and I want an honest media outlet. If I was rich, I would start my own, and I wouldn’t put my own spin on it, because I was the owner. Have these people never heard that saying: “honesty is the best policy”? Works for me!

    • Stephen Barlow

      LMAO!! @ “that wasn’t a healthplan.”

    • http://www.the-pet-butler.com Sherrie Roberts

      and you want our President to stoop to the depths that GOP goes to to TELL A LIE??? Our President doesn’t lie. Although this whole ridiculous thing has been blown to the moon, he took responsibility for the problems, NOTHING that the GOP would EVER do, just as you stated. This is such a mountain out of a mole-hill. It will work it’s self out, people will sign up, will be thrilled with their new insurance, Shades of Social Security, Medicare, Medicare Part D fighting against implementation by the GOP, they will lose. Sit back and pass the popcorn.

      • strayaway

        “Our President doesn’t lie.”

        Hilarious!

      • Reddkl

        You, Strayaway, are a piece of work!!!

    • artdude102

      Republicans are terrible at everything else. Spin, cheating, BS “pledges”, and lies- they’ve got that down pat. Getting actual work done? Nope. Nada. Zilch.

    • WorkingMan

      Nonsense. Millions of consumers have had plans cancelled–plans that were not junk, plans that worked for them. What hubris to assume they didn’t understand their own coverage! If a few scam plans were the problem, that problem could have been solved by the criminal justice system.
      As for spin, the last few years in politics have been nothing but spin, with the Democrats always having the best PR. Look at the recent “shutdown.” The R-controlled Congress proposed eight different budgets. The D-controlled Senate shot down every one, and yet managed to blame the Republicans for the “crisis.” The tea party was “holding the nation hostage,” the Dems were “standing firm.” The Rs were “extremist zealots,” the Ds were men of principle. The Dems clearly have the advantage in message control; if they can’t make us believe Obamacare is not a damned mess, it’s because it’s a damned mess.

      • moi

        It’s not hubris, it’s an actuality. Try working in healthcare for a month, dealing with insurance verification and these types of policies. You’ll see really quickly how bad these plans really are, and cover diddly. Try being diagnosed with Multiple Myeloma and being prescribed an $8,000 per 28 day supply medication, to find out you have a $2,000 rx max benefit. Tell me where your coming up with the next $6,000 for the current prescription, then the next $88,000 for the remainder of the benefit year, before that $2,000 becomes available, again. Ask anyone with one of these plans that has been diagnosed with a life altering disease and what type of coverage they had for their life sustaining treatments. Those plans are not true insurance. Google the consumer reports article from 2012 regarding hazardous insurance plans if you don’t believe anyone on this board.

      • moi

        edit – ‘you’re coming up..’

      • WorkingMan

        No doubt there are many, many people with inadequate plans. But there are also many whose plans suited their needs perfectly. To judge by their comments here and on the Washington Post and NYT sites, they weren’t suddenly finding out what their plans covered–unlike Nancy Pelosi, they read their plans before they signed them. And as we now know, they are being forced to buy coverage, not because they need it, but to subsidize others who need it. The ACA does nothing to lower costs, it’s just a back door tax, and a very large one, on the middle class.

      • http://evilifiction.blogspot.com/ Pat

        Buying coverage not because you need it but to subsidize those who do… That would be the definition of insurance, there.

        And the thing is, you never know who’s going to be the one who needs it. That’s why insurance exists.

      • WorkingMan

        No, the definition of insurance is paying a premium against the possibility that I might need it. If I am, say 75 years old, there is no possibility of me getting pregnant and therefor no need to be insured for it. I have a diminishing interest in covering the insurance needs of up to 40% of the country, but if you feel differently, then by all means write a check.

    • Diana Dodson

      because republicans are better liars

    • Diana Dodson

      because republicans are better liars

    • Cunnivore

      Because the truth is unacceptable according to republicans

    • Cunnivore

      Because the truth is unacceptable according to republicans

    • Lori

      would have done better?
      Lets see Reagan 8yrs Nothing, Bush 1 4yrs Nothing, Bush 2 8yrs Nothing.
      Tell Me Again How A Republican would make it Better by Pulling their usual Lies and passing the buck.
      The Affordable Care Act was modeled after the still working MA plan introduced by Romney, So instead of heading an anti-ACA Campaign Why didn’t he share in the development of it?
      He knew all the bugs and problems that might have come up and he would have shared in the pride of showing THE World that Our country won’t be divided to conquer.

    • Lori

      would have done better?
      Lets see Reagan 8yrs Nothing, Bush 1 4yrs Nothing, Bush 2 8yrs Nothing.
      Tell Me Again How A Republican would make it Better by Pulling their usual Lies and passing the buck.
      The Affordable Care Act was modeled after the still working MA plan introduced by Romney, So instead of heading an anti-ACA Campaign Why didn’t he share in the development of it?
      He knew all the bugs and problems that might have come up and he would have shared in the pride of showing THE World that Our country won’t be divided to conquer.

    • Stephen Barlow

      Maybe because the Dems are usually more honest at their core.

  • Pat

    This just in: Generalissimo Fransisco Franco of Spain is still dead.

    • regressive rightwing trash

      im chevy chase,,,,,,,and youre not :)

  • Kelly Speaks

    EXACTLY how I feel about the coverage.. Better yet, people need to stop listening to the media because they are the ones who are biased against the program… Best part, the website IS working.. I signed up last week… But no one is willing to get check that part out.. They just want to keep drumming up this nonsense.. Why?? Because Republicans are DESPERATE to find something wrong with the President, that they can use against the Democrats in the 2014 elections…

  • Lablea

    Exactly how do we know that the system wasn’t designed to fail by some hack? I know that it would be impossible to admit because the system would be even scarier to put your info in. Could there be a massive robo center that is continuously signing on that jams the site? When you have money and smart people, couldn’t someone have designed these glitches? I haven’t heard the question asked, is it because we don’t want to give them credit? They controlled which states signed up to do their own sites. Why couldn’t they have done this?

    • Reddkl

      There have been several articles about DDOS (signing onto a site to crash/overload it). I believe one article stated 16 confirmed attacks. Sadly, very few papers picked the information up and ran it.

  • socialmedic

    There are a few Republican policies that are STILL not working: supply-sided economics, decimation of antitrust laws and the fairness doctrine, de-regulation, return to religion, War in the middle east, record low tax cuts for the wealthiest, discrimination against women, gays, the disabled, the poor the elderly and the inform … yes lets talk about bad and weigh Republican BAD against a faulty website.

    • Betty Caron

      socialmedic, I’d give you two thumbs up for this if I could.

      • Stephen Barlow

        I gotta ask… LOL.. up where?

    • Stephen Barlow

      YAH HOO!!! GO cowboy!

  • estfar

    The introduction of something quite new to a system that has never had this new something before, experiences some kind of of issue, it is the way we know what to do to make it work better. The introduction of the automobile, the introduction of computers and now the introduction of the Affordable Care Act, they all had their bugs, but eventually when fixed they worked beautifully. We are humans and we are dealing with machines and the web, two things that each of us has had problems with. But oh, I forgot Pres. Obama is held to a different and higher bar of accomplishment. He is not allowed to experience average human frailties. Of course Republicans would like to forget their biggest failure – Bush and the disaster of decisions they made that nearly brought the country down. They refuse to acknowledge that this President they like to criticize so much, stopped the fast descent into oblivion after the economic disaster of 2008. All these Monday night quarterbacks who appeared after the fact are back in their armchairs doing the same thing over again, calling plays they know are bogus. The shame of it all is that they will want to take credit when the bugs are fixed and the site is working for all Americans and people start to see the benefits on their own mental well being and their families health — watch Teapublicans begin to reference that big thinker Romney and try to take full credit for the Act they tried to crash and burn.

  • Mary

    Media won’t change its behavior until it has no audience. I send my message by not clicking, reading or viewing. You can’t count me if I’m not there to be counted.

  • Nancy Alderton

    Allen, Great commentary as always. Perhaps you can do an article on Governor Scott Walker of WI and what a tool he is. He refused the expansion to Medicaid in WI, and has lowered the poverty line for eligibility for Badger Care, and 77,000 more people in WI will lose health care thanks to him. He is out to screw the people of WI and it should be made public.
    Thanks for all of your great insight.

  • Neoconsaredicks

    It was pointed out on the news by governor Deval Patrick of Massachusetts, that the Romneycare rollout was replete with snags….however, EVERYBODY HELPED to make it work…and it is now “Wildly popular” with 98% of the people having affordable health care……unlike with Obamacare..where we have the entire right wing ROOTING FOR FAILURE….what a bunch of assholes !!

    • BURNTFUR

      Just here to remind people that it’s not “Romneycare.” It wasn’t his idea, and it was well on its way to becoming reality before he took office. It just took effect while he was Governor.

  • Dave

    Thank you for putting that out there. I’m so sick of the Rapepublicans saying how concerned they are for the people losing their policies when they have ZERO to offer instead or hurt people more by not accepting the Medicaid expansion…..also is cutting the SNAP program showing how much they care about people? The media is FAR from being left leaning….they are all attacking the president on this one.

  • melloe

    In a year or so, the Republicans won’t be calling it Obamacare, and will claim they were for it all along. Governors will lose their jobs, or embrace it, and Tea baggers will be looking for a new lie while they scrub their wed sites of reference to Obamacare. Pundites make it sound like they said Republicans would lose their jobs over the ACA all along. And Obama accomplishments will be in the thousands

    • ElliotCares

      Look guys–I’m sure your post intended to highlight what you perceive to be media bias against Obamacare or against the president in general, but you miss the point. You “progressives” are taking away our freedom to care for ourselves and to care for others. Your whole health care plan is simply a coercive grab for power, power that will be used to strengthen the government’s grip on our lives. You have taken the best health care system in the world, based on free markets for free people, and you are in the process of demolishing it and replacing it with a typical socialist system where the government allows you to live and takes the choices and joy out of life. You may think, “oh!–but it’s democracy–don’t you believe in democracy? –It’s not democracy when a special interest group takes your livelihood, your health care, and your freedom away. No government should have that right–it’s just the age-old concept of “might makes right”, flying in the face of two hundred years of enlightened, rights-preserving, freedom-protecting, government.

      • ElliotCares

        I am not a “insert your political label here”. I just want the freedom to run my own life. Your “progressive” agenda is to take away my freedom to run my own life. A good way to determine the nature of people’s motives is to see whether they want to use others as slaves or sacrificial animals or whether they just want the freedom to live their lives. I just want the freedom to live my life. I want limited government, individual responsibility, and low taxes. You want my labor and whatever wealth I have accumulated. You are, in reality, just thugs who want to live off of others. I am, in reality, just someone who wants to go off to a corner with others who believe in freedom and be left to produce wealth and seek joy. You believe that I don’t really know what I want and you seek to restrict my ability to trade, to own, to act. Shame on you and we will fight for our freedom against your (tired, historically bankrupt) nth wave of marxist autocracy. You want to turn us into North Korea or Nazi Germany (yes–the Nazis were the National Socialist Workers Party). You want to the government to have all the power. I get it. Just stop calling yourselves “progressive” or “liberal” because we are the liberals. We believe in freedom…..you are trying to take it away.

      • Sean

        You talk about freedom.

        I’ll tell you about freedom. I get up, I go to work, I come home, I pay my mortgage.

        When I get sick, I go to the hospital. I get better, I don’t get a bill. My taxes are my insurance. I pick my doctor and I have never had the government make a health decision for me. I can go to any doctor in my province that I want to.

        Yes, my “official” taxes are higher than yours, but if you compare them to your taxes plus your insurance bill, mine are lower.

        So I pay less for a health care system that protects more people for less money.

        I will never lose my house because I need to sell it to pay a medical bill. Never.

        I am free buddy.

      • Mr Mike

        The only freedom you have lost under Obamacare is the freedom to get ripped off by the insurance companies. Are you really that stupid?!? Obamacare regulates the insurance companies, not doctors or patients. Read any consumer protection information, like from Consumer Reports, and they will tell you that these policies that are being cancelled are WORTHLESS, and the people who have them are throwing their money away. They have been saying this for years. And if you think these people are losing their freedom because the government says they can no longer buy a worthless product, then I have some oceanfront property in Kansas you might be interested in.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        because of those tornados that waterfront Kansas property is now owned =by FOX “news” anchor sean “puffdaddy” hannity

      • moi

        See, this is your problem, it’s all about ‘me, me, me, me’ and throwing a hissy fit, because you’re not getting your way. About what? Not sure. The truth is you’re refusal to get insurance affects the whole population, not just ‘you, you, you.’ You’re denying the rest of the population the freedom from having to cover your expenses if you end up in the er and can’t afford the bill for it and the ambulance ride or when you may go to the md but don’t pay your bill. The thing is, you are given a choice – 1) get enrolled with insurance; 2) don’t enroll and pay the yearly mandate. Either way, this will keep any expenses you may incur from falling into the laps of the rest of the populace. Get it? Got it? Good.

  • kateMA

    The rollout was embarrassing for those of us who have fought our own local battles to those who oppose the ACA. But what’s occurred to me is that the GOP has made every conceivable, and inconceivable, attempt to derail the enormous efforts of an administration who is ultimately trying to improve the quality with which we Americans treat our fellow Americans, and made absolutely no attempt to step in and assist in the perfecting of the program. This, to me, is passive sabotage at its best. Their constant “look at the shiny keys” side show has prevented an effort that is selfless in nature and in some cases, likely an added economic benefit to the entire country. There are smart Republicans. Republicans with money, resources and clout who could have stepped in and had their names on a policy that SUCCEEDED, rather they took the position of keeping their names off of a policy that they were hoping would fail. To me, this is not a failure of our Administration or our President. It’s a somewhat filmy exercise in political volleyball where the bullies are not getting what they want, therefor they will stomp their feet, thrash their hips around in protest until it all goes away. And the media will quietly let the success absorb into the atmosphere, never mentioning the progress. It’s not going to fail.

  • rasslor56

    “the American people will still be well aware of just how ridiculous Republicans really are.” If that were true, it would have happened already—but some Americans are STUPID.

  • bpless

    I believe the media is responsible for our last recession. They were constantly harping on the bad economy and scaring people. And, of coarse, when people become afraid for their jobs, they stop spending and start saving their money. Eventually, businesses must lay off people because people aren’t spending money on goods and services. People must spend money in order to have jobs. The media is a powerful tool and can be used to destroy as well as to inform. People hear something often enough, they believe it. I can’t believe that people can’t understand that with a huge undertaking such as Obamacare, there will be problems getting it up and running. This is humans that designed this system not magicians. They can’t foresee every problem. That’s not to say they didn’t make mistakes, I’m sure they did. But a program as large as this will take time to work all the bugs out. It’s not magical, it’s life.

  • Joice

    My BCBS and Medicare has NOT changed

  • http://www.SaidSo.com Mitchell T. Harter

    My Doctor has moved out of the area!!! The President said I could keep him!!! Do I get a travel voucher or something so I can go see him? How does that work exactly? Do I get time off work? I guess we have to scrap this whole shooting match huh?

  • glebec

    The stories of success require actual reporting; i.e. WORK!

  • Jeremy

    Nobody needs obamacare, its a crock of shit. and no im not republican

  • BURNTFUR

    Did you know that because the ACA website isn’t functioning that means it’s proof the ACA itself doesn’t actually work!? That’s what I hear all day from republicans. Such a superb grasp of logic, how can it not be true?

  • MovieJay

    The thing about this constant ragging on Obama is that it’s like watching something out of the Twilight Zone. One President apologizes for a glitchy website while the one before him wears a proud smile on his face when he admits he’d do Iraq all over again exactly the way he did it the first time. No apologies.

  • DDP

    The part of this that puzzles me most by people who see the ACA as Armageddon, is that they actually asking the president to impose more regulation on insurance companies to keep sub standard policies. I have yet to see a Republican in a public forum suggest one thing of the ACA that would save tax payer money. They actually want more insurance options that fit silly requirements. I watched them grill Sibllious and it was easy to see that most of them had not gotten past the first conversation in 2010 and wanted to suddenly have it now. Not one suggestion would make the ACA cost less. Every suggestion was going to cost more.

    To now tell insurance companies to go back and rewrite policies that illuminate coverage to satisfy some particular view of minority of people will translate to a higher premium not a smaller one because the will have to now manage a subset of policies. Why is everyone acting like turtles on their back. We put more effort into buying a car than most do with their medical insurance policy. I would wager that most have not clue what is even in their policy now. If you don’t want an abortion as a man don’t get one. Why care now what is in your policy? Guess what, it is a free market, want a certain doctor, go find out which insurance he accepts and move. That is how I have always done it.

    I agree with the author that something was way off with the implementation of the website, but I think the Republicans activity during the last three years did not lend to creating a better product. His final point is the one I agree with the most. The Republican leaders have lied about it for year; from whose compromise this really was, to wasting countless dollars trying to repeal a law now enforced by our supreme court. Where is the media in this one…

  • suburbancuurmudgeon

    My daughter is 27 and lives in Michigan. She got a Silver HMO plan with a $1500 deductible and a $30 co-pay for $103/month with dental for an additional $12/month. Before the ACA she would have paid $600. She is a massage therapist working as an independent contractor.

    But no one would ever report THAT.

    • Pipercat

      I chose a gold PPO plan for 511 per month. Fabulous plan with a 20 dollar copay and I’m quite a bit older (cough); but as a filer of a schedule C, the subsidies should get my out of pocket for premiums down to less than fifty per month. Make sure your daughter checks out the link on the website that calculates the credits (It’s a link to a Kaiser health site). She might be able to get an even better plan for less!

  • Lawrencect

    stupid is as stupid does, never confuse people with the facts – the premise for the ACA is just and righteous – the actual implementation is corrupt, incompetent and hurts the very people that were supposed to be helped. What is a politician? By definition a corrupt, narcissistic liar, who cares only about enriching themselves individual. If their mouth is moving they are lying.

  • Dumped and doubled

    I suppose if you we’re forced to pay 2.5 times more for your health plan you might sing a different tune. My health care shouldn’t be equal to a mortgage payment. Affordable care act for some crippling expense for others. The problems with this program are real for mor people than you think!

    • Mtman1944

      Lynn, if your car insurance went up by 2.5 times, would you keep it anyway because you liked your agent? Maybe you would, I wouldn’t. My point is, use your State’s’ exchange to find a new policy that is in line with your needs and is affordable. Yes it really is that simple.

  • Edward Cotton Sr.

    Jeramiah Wright all over again….Drama Drama Drama!!!

  • yaah2012

    Can you link me to some of your articles that condemn the media for overreporting things that make the Republicans look bad? ……………………….. Still waiting

  • regressive rightwing trash

    simple————OHSO SIMPLE!!!! the regressive white trash crybabies at FOX “news” is shellacking this ( because they have nothing else) to TRYtryTRY to setup any hope of attacking democrats in the 2014 election. as soon as the ACA is rolling and performing FOX “news” will revert to the “oldies” station they are– playing older “HITS” such as ” Benghazi”……”fast and furious”…..”obamas spending” ( which is really receding)….”attack on Christmas” ( who really cares anyway)…..”nanny state”………..and the hits just keep on A’coming!!! stay tuned for your favorite crybaby regressive white scumbag ‘song’!!!

  • Tami

    Must first let you know Mr. Clifton I love to read your articles! So much truth and said so well! Thank You! I also agree that much to much has been reported about the website not working. I wonder however, why are people not talking about the websites that are working. I’m from Colorado and our website is up and running. Is this true in other states? Why not report on that? Why is that no one seems to be saying use your state website? Just wondering. Keep up the great work it is greatly appreciated!

  • Ann

    I have found the Republicans and Media so off base about issues. They make crisis after crisis over nothing. I feel like I live in a continuous skit of Saturday Night live. I am tired of saying I can’t believe this. Now here is some good news. I am from Colorado and was able to get on Connect Health Care Colorado in less than a minute. I found health insurance at half the price of my current with more coverage. It will start Jan. 1, 2014. It was easy and the AFA has saved my husband and I $400 a month. We had good coverage before but better coverage now. We don’t get any subsidies because our income is too high, but I am pre existing and this works out great for us. Now this is something the media should talk about, the good of this program.

  • Renate M. Raffeck

    Just received yet another mailing today regarding the ACA…marked urgent….A STRAW POLE to explain the negative impacts of the ACA and the urgency to repeal and defund it?????????? This makes at least the fifth such mailing over the past year. Just imagine the amount of money involved for these mailings. Just think if all that money would have been used to make any improvements and to implement this much needed Health Care Act. Where are the priorities of this Congress…..Oh, I forgot…to stop President Obama from being successful at anything :( at the expense of the American people..

  • Judy Easley

    It’s my understanding you can also sign up by phone. I’d be surprised if the website DID work correctly, with the number of hits it’s getting. This is just more of the same old shit.

  • Larry Thedishguy Blake

    Oh no, the website isn’t working 100% correct! Brace yourself, the apocalypse is about to happen!

  • whatsmynameagain?

    forcing people to buy health insurance isn’t much of an incentive for insurance companies to keep prices low

    • Buckthesystem

      But having more customers means more competition for those customers thus better prices, and to all those young people that feel they are healthy and don’t need it, an accident or serious illness could strike anyone at any time.

  • Angel Rivera

    Rupert Murdock could care less about the truth and the fact that his papers in Britain broke every rule to get stories tells me that there it does not matter how low you can get…

  • rpbrooksbank

    Politicians lie and boys will be boys. So, we are just supposed to accept their lies and move on? Get rid of the Obamatax now!

  • sweet medicine

    just keep telling yourself its great…its not for me. my premiums double. OPT OuT

  • WyRaven

    For the record, I got into the website just fine yesterday and got all set up. My monthly premiums are $0. Considering the fact that I don’t get sick, my deductible and out of pocket is fairly high at $750 and $1000 respectively, but that is still better than nothing.

  • Doug Crum

    Forget the 5% unless you happen to be one of them, Jon. I bet it would not be as funny,,, sorry I forgot money is no object for you and..

  • Bryan DiMicelli

    The obnoxious thing about it is the site actually works relatively well as of over a week ago. I went through it to see what my options were out of curiosity.

    I had one error were I had to back track a few pages, but it was relatively hassle free in comparison to opening week.

    And yes, pricing was extremely reasonable. I will likely buy off the market in the first quarter of 2014.

  • lebaby

    When oh when oh when are we going to start tracking down and holding these subversives accountable for the evil that they do? I would support Obama droning the bastards that do this stuff. People with cancer and other diseases need healthcare. Just when is enough going to be enough?????

    • strayaway

      Then why has the (un)ACA kicked an additional 5M off of their policies. It was supposed to do the opposite and provide policies but instead it has taken more than it has given.

  • notanamericanapologist

    How come he did not include any success stories in his story and why the vague references to the Bush years why not hearken back to Jimmy Carter or Clinton years of lies or is it going to be Bush’s fault forever and never Obama’s doings.

  • Sherry

    And this too shall pass in time. Medicare’s start had it’s fury of ups and downs when LBJ signed into to law in 1965.

    • Grand_Old_Partier

      Apples and onions, sweetie.

  • http://www.modernwhig.org/ Gene Chaas

    Both parties get a “FAIL” grade. Time to move on and find true leaders, not shills.

  • ecosutra

    My company, based in California, employs 600. We used to insure about 250 of our employees. The rest opted out. The company paid 50% of their premiums for about $750,000/yr.

    Under obamacare, none can opt out without penalty, and the rates are double or triple, depending upon the plan. Our 750k for 250 employees is going to $2 million per year for 600 employees.

    By mandate, we have to pay 91.5% of the premium or more up from the 50% we used to pay.

    Our employees share of the premium goes from $7/week for the cheapest plan to $30/week. 95% of my employees were on that plan. Remember, we used to pay 50% now we pay 91.5% and the premiums still go up that much!!

    The cheapest plan now has a deductible of $6350! Before it was $150. Employees making $9 to $10/hr, have to pay $30/wk and have a $6350 deductible!!! What!!!!

    They can’t afford that to be sure. Obamacare will kill their propensity to seek medical care. More money for less care? How does that help them?

    Here is the craziest part. Employees who qualify for mediCAL (the California version of Medicare), which is most of my employees, will automatically be enrolled in the Federal SNAP program. They cannot opt out. They cannot decline. They will be automatically enrolled in the Federal food stamp program based upon their level of Obamacare qualification. Remember, these people work full time, living in a small town in California. They are not seeking assistance. It all seems like a joke. How can this be the new system?

    Pelosi, pass the bill to find out what’s in it? Surprise! You’ve annihilated the working class.
    Q.E.D.

  • ecosutra

    My company, based in California, employs 600. We used to insure about 250 of our employees. The rest opted out. The company paid 50% of their premiums for about $750,000/yr.

    Under obamacare, none can opt out without penalty, and the rates are double or triple, depending upon the plan. Our 750k for 250 employees is going to $2 million per year for 600 employees.

    By mandate, we have to pay 91.5% of the premium or more up from the 50% we used to pay.

    Our employees share of the premium goes from $7/week for the cheapest plan to $30/week. 95% of my employees were on that plan. Remember, we used to pay 50% now we pay 91.5% and the premiums still go up that much!!

    The cheapest plan now has a deductible of $6350! Before it was $150. Employees making $9 to $10/hr, have to pay $30/wk and have a $6350 deductible!!! What!!!!

    They can’t afford that to be sure. Obamacare will kill their propensity to seek medical care. More money for less care? How does that help them?

    Here is the craziest part. Employees who qualify for mediCAL (the California version of Medicare), which is most of my employees, will automatically be enrolled in the Federal SNAP program. They cannot opt out. They cannot decline. They will be automatically enrolled in the Federal food stamp program based upon their level of Obamacare qualification. Remember, these people work full time, living in a small town in California. They are not seeking assistance. It all seems like a joke. How can this be the new system?

    Pelosi, pass the bill to find out what’s in it? Surprise! You’ve annihilated the working class.
    Q.E.D.

  • Lori

    Really Great article. Sound bites/titles are the only thing people see then they tune out or don’t finish reading the whole story. Then they want to complain and comment and even vote Completely Uninformed.When I see it I copy paste the end of the article Along with the Comment/Share of the article. I know we live in a fast paced world But when It is Important PLEASE finish the story, Can You watch to the end a 4 minute utube video of falling animals?

  • Lori

    Really Great article. Sound bites/titles are the only thing people see then they tune out or don’t finish reading the whole story. Then they want to complain and comment and even vote Completely Uninformed.When I see it I copy paste the end of the article Along with the Comment/Share of the article. I know we live in a fast paced world But when It is Important PLEASE finish the story, Can You watch to the end a 4 minute utube video of falling animals?

  • Dmitri Mosolov

    I wonder where the 95% magical number came from… Source plx!

  • ken

    There are and were issues with American healthcare. . Giving the industry to the government to mange is a mistake. Government is force , power and control.. not altruistc compassion and love.

  • Grand_Old_Partier

    LMAO!!! Spin this anyway you want but Obamacare is a disaster. It’s killing jobs. it’s killing incomes, and it’s gonna relegate Democrats and liberalism to the ash heap of history.

    Obama lied, Pelosi lied, Reid lied, Democrats lied, the media lied (but I repeat myself here), you all—LIED. You should change your party symbol to a pig so you are better suited to wallow in the gigantic sty that you’ve created.

  • qu1rk10n3

    I’m sorry but I am so sick of reading or hearing a “liberal” journalist keep referring to the presidents mispeaking as a lie. There is a difference. Another thing that I take issue with is how so many people excuse away the medias reasons for spreading & repeating republicans bs when it comes to anything this administration does, as “they’re just too lazy to do any investigating,” or “its more profitable,” instead of saying what’s really going on; the media & republicans are one in the same, so they are only repeating scripts handed down by their corporate I wn right-wing masters. This ia why you can watch one network, switch in the middle & never miss a beat bc they all use the same script. They have one goal & one goal only & that is to destroy this President at all cost! While they are doing so they put out the LIE that the media is liberal.The sooner you the real liberals start calling it what it is the better, until then you are part of the problem! There is no liberal media, regan made sure of that!

  • Susanna from Brussels

    The website has been massively hacked so it wouldn’t function

  • Andrew Klossner

    “I guess we should probably hear from the 95% of Americans who haven’t had their insurance cancelled, or the millions who are paying less, but seriously—who cares about them, right?”

    - Proof please… it would be nice to be able to combat some of the s$%@ that is being tossed around with some facts, remember we aren’t Republicans, we can’t just make stuff up to fit our argument.

  • Robb Thompson

    AS SNL used to say “and Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead”

  • Colin

    To be fair, I heard several pieces on NPR over the last week or so about the positive aspects of the rollout, including anecdotes of people whose bad policies were cancelled and now have better ones, as well as one just this morning on the one part of the rollout that is going smoothly and efficiently, namely the expansion of Medicaid.

  • MLR

    The Rs have no idea how ridiculous they sound. Take Kentucky for instance. The rollout is going pretty good in that state and yet you have their senators screaming “repeal obamacare”. It almost seems to me as if they are in a “obamacare bubble” and have convinced themselves that the ACA is a disaster and everyone hates it. But they have no clue as to what’s really going on on the ground. So when the website finally gets fixed and more people are able to sign up and get affordable healthcare that they will be the last to notice or care for that matter. But i’d like to see how they’re going to explain to their constituents that they still want to repeal the law. That’s why I’m keeping an eye on Kentucky.

  • Scott MacKenzie

    It’s true. My Mom is here for Thanksgiving and I humored her by putting on FOX because she likes it. We watched two non-stop hours of Obamacare is the end of the world. Truly. That’s all they talked about. And when it’s all said and done and everyone is signed up and insured, their viewers would never go back and question how foolish all the fearmongering was. It’s stunning. And they never offer an alternative health plan. Never.

  • anonymous

    Obamacare = just a huge scam, that only benefits the insurance giants, to cause higher job layoffs.

    • Taleisin

      It doesn’t benefit people who before could not afford health care?
      Really?????

  • Sandra B.

    Ummm, the author needs to do better research, and by that I don’t mean by *listening to any mainstream media*. Yawn, this is yet another waste of poor intel uniformed reading time. Sorry!

  • shady

    Pointless article that perpetuates the problem you’re talking about.