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I Have A Message For Those Who Claim The Confederate Flag Represents Their Heritage

only-confederate-flag-that-matteredI’ve lived in the South my whole life, Texas to be exact. To say the South is like an entirely different country in some aspects is exactly right. As a progressive living in this state, sometimes I really don’t feel like I’m on the same planet, let alone in the same country as many of the conservatives I encounter. The ignorance I’ve come across living here is often so absurd that I almost feel as if these people are willfully and pridefully ignorant. Especially in today’s world. With Google at most of our fingertips and an endless supply of information at our disposal, how can so many people be so incredibly stupid?


Which brings me to my point; my message to those who seem to proudly boast that the Confederate flag is a symbol of “Southern pride” and “Southern heritage.” I really feel the need to address those people directly.

I’ve met many of you. The “proud Southerner” who sees the Confederate flag as a symbol of your roots, your “heritage” as many of you call it. You live in a state of denial that’s almost unparalleled. Do you know why you’ve been allowed to live in denial for so long? Do you know why, in many areas of the South, the Confederate flag is still seen as a symbol of “pride”? Because it took nearly a century after the Confederacy lost the Civil War before African-Americans in many of those states were finally given equal rights. Even long after the Confederacy was defeated and disgraced, many still held on to the racism that fueled it.

It was just over 50 years ago that we still had segregation, bans on interracial marriage and even water fountains from which African-Americans weren’t allowed to drink. That’s why that flag remained a symbol of “pride” – because it was still tied to the generations of your “heritage” linked to slavery, oppression and pure hate.

There wasn’t any need to be ashamed of this flag by which every American should rightfully be embarrassed. Your “heritage” wasn’t ashamed of the racism, intolerance and hate it perpetuated for a century. If anything, your “heritage” embraced it.

Oh, I know what you’re thinking, “The Confederate flag wasn’t about slavery, but states’ rights!”

To those who claim that, have you ever read some of these declarations of secession by the Confederate states? Here’s a clip from Texas:

She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery–the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits–a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.

Yes, that’s part of the Texas Ordinance of Secession from 1861 declaring that African-Americans were essentially property owned by the superior white race. But please, by all means, tell me again how the Confederacy was about “states’ rights” and not slavery or racism.


Oh, but it’s your heritage, right? If the Confederate flag is a symbol of your “heritage” then you should be downright ashamed of that heritage.

But that’s the sad part – millions in the South aren’t. You embrace that hate and ignorance, and you lie to yourself about what that vile flag means by telling yourself it was just about an opposition to an overreaching federal government.

That’s bullshit, and I think deep down you know. Of course, cognitive dissonance is difficult to overcome. Those of you who don’t believe the Confederate flag represents racism have clearly created some delusional reality where you’ve ignored the racism, bigotry, intolerance and hate that’s followed your “heritage” and was represented by that flag by telling yourselves that it’s a “symbol of Southern pride.”

I’m a Southerner and that flag damn sure doesn’t represent me or my heritage. The only flag I honor is the only flag an American should honor, and that’s the flag of the United States of America. You know, the one the Confederacy declared war against in an effort to continue to own other human beings as property.

Here’s a rule: You can’t claim to be a proud, patriotic American while you honor the flag of the largest treasonous uprising against this country in our history.

So, do you still want to claim the Confederate flag is just a symbol of your “Southern roots”? Well you need to realize those roots are rotted. They’re tainted and symbolic of a period in our nation’s history of which we should all be ashamed.

Just like Germany is horrified by the period of their history where Nazis rose to power, so too should every American be ashamed of a time when white supremacists flew a flag over 13 of our states in one of the darkest moments in our nation’s history.



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Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on both Twitter and Facebook. Have feedback, inquiries, criticism or hate mail? You can email him as well.

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  • Creeayshun Sighuntist

    The confederate flag is the flag for the losers of the Civil War. What is the last flag the southern states flew? You guessed it, the white flag. Get over your thinly veiled racism you nitwits…..

  • Ellen H.

    I’ve never gotten the “Southern Pride” thing. I’ve always lived in the Midwest, but I don’t really feel any Midwestern Pride. I’ve read several secessionist documents and ALL of them mention the right to own slaves as the main reason for seceding. So you can say it’s about states’ rights all you want. Just have the guts to say it was about a states’ rights to own slaves.

    • Flossie

      Less than 2% of whites in America ever owned slaves.

      • Talkingtree

        As with everything now and then, it was the powerful wealthy minority that dictated what was best for a country or state is what just so happened to be what suited their interests . . . .no surprise there.
        They did however do a great job of getting poor non slave owning whites in the South to see the inferiority of blacks and fear of direct competition in their niche of the market should they be free. Many of them were all to happy to engage in the oppression of blacks after the war. Racism can’t be reduced to, well, most southern whites didn’t own slaves so they had no strong opinions one way or the other.

      • John

        over 30% of free blacks owned slaves, including white slaves too. Little info that doesnt get shared in school.

      • Beau

        Exactly. The media and the liberals suppress ANYthing that does not support their argument. They’re more delusional than any persons they’ve ever badmouthed. No one person’s experiences nor mass hysteria should be grounds for oppressing millions via bad legislation(s). This micro-managing headlines thru stupid and irresponsible law-making has GOT to stop. Not everyone has to love everyone or the same things. It’s what makes us different and what makes us a free country. Respect it.

      • Liza Yellowbird

        Exactly. And this IS mass hysteria fixated on a flag, as if that will change anything. What b.s.!

      • Mabel Annette Graham

        Amen.

      • Like I GiveAShitake

        Yeah because the CONservative media arguments are always 100% right.
        -_-

      • Corbin

        Just as the leftist one is 100% correct?

      • Jake Peters

        False statistic

      • Patrick McAlexander

        Thank you John! Finally someone sets the record straight! In fact, the very first slave owner in America was black.

      • Matt Mtz

        So… because some black people owned other blacks as slaves that makes it okay? That means the white slave owners were justified in their attempt to maintain slavery?

      • Proud Southerner

        I didn’t say it was okay. Slavery is not and never was and never will be OK. I’m saying this flag does not represent only whites that had slaves like most people on here are suggesting. I’m just glad someone informed the uninformed a fact.

      • Matt Mtz

        “Does not represent only whites that had slaves”

        I fully agree with that. However, that statement strongly implies you agree it DOES represent slave owners (black and white) or slave ownership. Is that correct?

      • Proud Southerner

        No. I want people to know that slavery does not discriminate. It is widely perceived that slavery was just whites enslaving blacks. The Confederate flag is no more a symbol of hatred than the American flag if one is to solely base it on slavery alone. Remember the North had slaves also. It is just unfortunate that hate groups such as the KKK and white supremacists “use” this flag as their flag of choice. It disgraces the flag and makes me sad.

      • Matt Mtz

        I actually laughed out loud when I read that “slavery does not discriminate”. I believe you over estimate the importance of the fact that there were black slave owners. It’s somewhat amusing. No one really cares that there were black slave owners. It makes no difference to any of the issues our country still experiences regarding racism (overt or otherwise). What really matters is that the SLAVES were black. You may be able to pull some information out of your hat that shows some white slaves existed, but again that would be irrelevant. What is relevant is that all the laws that were racial in nature, they were against blacks. Blacks had to go to different schools, drink from different water fountains, etc. There were no black majority states that imposed similar laws against whites.

      • qu4ttro

        An excellent point.

      • Mabel Annette Graham

        Not all slaves were black the Irish were indentured slaves and many other nationalities , let’s get over it and get on with our lives. It is the past , .Slaves were freed over 100 years ago, segregation ended over 50 years ago . Stop play the race cards and let’s work on getting our country straightened out and more jobs , decent wages and healthcare and take care of our veterans and sick and our senior citizens. Love not hate for the future of The United States of America. Long may she prosper.

      • Matt Mtz

        Indentured servitude, although nearly a complete form of economic slavery, was NOT slavery. Children of indentured servants were not bought and sold like cattle. Indentured servants were not forced, at risk of death, to mate with specific slaves that owners considered most likely to produce healthy, strong workers. Although many (possibly most) indentured servants died while still in servitude, due to harsh working conditions and poor living conditions, others managed to work off their servitude and become free, as per the contract they made. While some slave owners freed some slaves at their own descretion, slaves did not have the opportunity to work off their debt or servitude. They were property from birth to death.

      • Brenda Turner

        But they (the slaves) were freed right? Also as slaves they were an investment, indentured servants were not they worked till they paid their debts or died.

      • Like I GiveAShitake

        So the hell what they were freed in the land that claims ‘all men are created equal’. Go talk to Solomon Northup about that. That didn’t matter much when they still were slaves to a system dead set on keeping them oppressed refusing them work, and if they did find work it was work that couldn’t even support a goldfish.

      • strayaway

        I’m not disagreeing but indentured servitude is still legal and encouraged but by different names. Military enlistment contracts (Federal indentured servants)and H-2A worker (corporate indentured servants) contracts have many of the same features of less then civilian citizenship rights and a limited time frame in return for various benefits.

      • Matt Mtz

        You are completely wrong. In order to be an investment, a person does not have to be entirely owned. The lender loans money to the individual become an indentured servant. The lender gets lots of cheap labor out of the indentured servant. That is an investment.

      • Andycane

        And what about the Genocide of the Native Americans under the American Flag?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        change the subject much? Is this the line you teabaggers are going with today??

      • Andycane

        I think it’s important to remind people that their flag has also been dipped in blood. Few remember the Native Americans plight, they are too busy whining about the color of their own skin.You predictably label me as a tea bagger, which is really funny… I spent the last two days reading everything I could get my hands on about slavery in the South and the civil war, and low and behold a black man who had read over 18 books well documented books on the subject was the one who really opened my eyes about black and white slavery in the South, and the origins of slavery around the world. We would need to trash more than the confederate flag my friend. It was the predominantly Democrat KKK who really put the stick to this flag. No one seems to thinks of the innocent families living in Southern communities who have to deal with the unrest stirred up by arm chair activists… Remember the side which wins always rewrites History to suit themselves…

      • Like I GiveAShitake

        “…let’s get over it and get on with our lives”

        Remember that when the next 9/11 anniversary rolls around. -_-

      • Blue

        “Get over it” said the person with nothing to get over.

      • Mabel Annette Graham

        Yes I can say get over it and get on with our lives. My ancestors were shanty Irish,German and English. They owned no slaves, they were small farmers and sharecroppers. They fought the union yankies because they tried to take over and force their believes on the south. Don’t forget the north owned slaves too. So it was not over slavery it was over money and Cotten. The south at that time was richer than the north. Lincoln owned slaves alsoand did not free them until after the war. The war was over politics and money. And if you blame all the hate on the Cofederate flag and take it down you should take down the American flag because of the atrocities Sherman committed under it. After the war was over by burning his wthru Georg

      • Blue

        The Confederacy seceded over slavery. Period.

        Same comment regarding getting over it: You have nothing to get over. Your recent ancestors were not slaves, nor were they persecuted by the KKK, nor were they the victims of Jim Crow laws, redlining, lynching, or voter supression.

        Slavery was illegal in most Northern states by the time of he war.

        I do not “blame all of the hate on the Confederate flag”.

        At some point, it would be so cool if the defenders of “heritage” could become aware of the heritage that it represents to black Americans and realize they have the greater claim by far.

      • Mabel Annette Graham

        My ancestors have been here since before the Revolutionery war. They fought in that war and the Civil war. My great great great grandfather was a General in the Civil war but did not own slaves. My family were small farmers and sharecroppers. They fought for their states right to succeed from a nation that want to take over the south for their money and crops of cotton and grains that the north wanted but did not want to pay for. Rmember the north had slaves too even Lincoln and did not free them until after the war. So the war was not about slavery but politics and money. And if you take down the stars and bars you should take down the stars and strips because of the attocities committed under it against the American Indians and by Sherman when he marched through Georgia and burned raped and pillaged from Atlanta to Savannah

      • Blue

        The leaders of the Confederacy wanted secession to protect the institution of slavery. Whatever the average soldier believed, he was sent to war, he did not initiate it, and it does not bear on this discussion. The South seceded to protect slavery, and the leaders knew that this meant war.

        The South seceded over slavery. If you will study history, you will find that nations do not allow sections of themselves to secede without a fight. Somehow many apologists for the South have decided that the Union was just being unfair or rude or something by refusing to let part of America secede. Learn some real history!

        I’m not taking down any flag. But I see no reason for the flag of treason in defense of slavery to be flown at any government building.

      • Solarflare The Magnificent

        Yeah and you 13% of the population are responsible for 75+% of the violent crime in this country and the way you people are murdering each other we may not have to put up with your whining much longer!

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        what does that have to do with a racist flag?

      • Brenda Turner

        Why would the subject of white slaves be irrelevant, because you say so?

      • Matt Mtz

        I have already explained this. Name a state controlled by blacks that implemented laws against whites that were in effect nearly 100 years after the civil war

      • Andycane

        Ruling blacks have and are repressing their own kind in Africa today. All races are capable of atrocities.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        We live in the United States and this country makes decisions on how it treats people regardless of other countries atrocities.

      • Andycane

        True, just as the United States flew the stars and stripes proudly while decimating the entire Native American population of this great continent… Manifest Destiny anyone?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        I agree, a total horseshit move that we as a nation haven’t fully reconciled yet. I am close friends with a number of native americans, and one of my roommates in college 20+ years ago is one. But, we can take things one step at a time. This is not justification to turn a blind eye to the racist loser flag. Don’t change the subject in an attempt to minimize the hate behind that garbage flag.

      • Andycane

        I spent the last two days reading everything I could get my hands on about slavery in the South and the civil war, and low and behold a black man who had read over 18 books well documented books on the subject was the one who really opened my eyes about black and white slavery in the South, and the origins of slavery around the world. We would need to trash more than the confederate flag my friend. It was the predominantly Democrat KKK who really put the stick to this flag. No one seems to thinks of the innocent families living in Southern communities who have to deal with the unrest stirred up by arm chair activists. Remember the side which wins always rewrites History to suit themselves…

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        just because you read everything on the internet the last two days, this doesn’t mean know everything, or ANYTHING. You very easily could have been reading outright lies and were likely reading right wing revisionist history exclusively. Ingesting more of that will not help you do anything more than justify racist tendencies. Seriously, you are way off base here and going down the rabbit hole, and sadly you believe what you’ve read so far.

      • Andycane

        Contrary to what you say, I spend a large percentage of my time researching history and news (political, environmental, economic, medical etc.) from both the right and the left, and of course the middle, where I find the most open and fair minded individuals reside.

        I wish more people had endeavored to inform themselves about the South, the Civil War, and the history of slavery (which has been around for a very long time) before they were so easily drawn into a left wing media frenzy, which has engendered even more hatred and endangered innocent people, without ‘actively’ solving a thing.

        Anyone can accuse ANYONE of reading “revisionist” history, but the fact remains the large percentage of information available does not bear you out.

        I suggest you do a thorough investigation as I did, and am still doing, and even search for “Republicans started the KKK”, and see what you find. Far from what you say. It is the Democrats who are the darlings of the main stream media today, and if there were currently anyway for them to completely suppress this information they would, because the establishment Republicans are largely cowards, and arse kissers. The bottom line is anyone so invested in one party or one point of view will never seek to unveil the truth.

        “American history is what it is – including the good, the bad, and the downright ugly. Attempting to censor and ban symbols that are reminiscent of that history will do nothing to change it, nor will such actions influence the present or the future.”

        Lily Dane, The Daily Sheeple

        This frenzy of seeking to eradicate, the confederate flag as a symbol of hatred, by the destruction and elimination of said flag, films, books, merchandise etc. is a bigoted, ignorant, and futile attempt at complete control, reminiscent of all fascist leaders.
        “A hundred years before the advent of Hitler, the German-Jewish poet, Heinrich Heine, had declared “Wherever books are burned, human beings are destined to be burned too”

        We are no better than Isis when we champion the destruction and desecration, of national and historical monuments (such as we are currently witnessing today) because they offend our comprehension of the truth, which can only and always be limited, simply because we are all, only human.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Sigh….if it is the democrats who are really the racists and so fervently anti black, why don’t black people agree with you? Since you have some time on your hands, do a quick search on when the two parties switched on their basic stances. For someone who claims to have a handle on US political history, you know very little….. Regardless of who started it, the KKK of TODAY and the recent past (last 60 years) is made up almost entirely of conservative republicans. I don’t know who you think you are trying to kid or convince, but you are a total wealth of mis-information.

        Love the ISIS correlations too….yeah well done….lay off the right wing rag sites….smh

      • Andycane

        I gather in your book it’s ok to denounce the confederate flag’s deep historical roots, but not the historical roots of the Democrats. I don’t believe that all Democrats or Republicans are against blacks, not then or now. I again suggest that you “google yourself”, The history is there for all to see. As for the present, that too will soon be part of history, and suppressing it will do nothing to change it. As for the blacks there’s a lot of informed blacks, check out
        Please Stop Helping Us: How Liberals Make It Harder for Blacks to Succeed Hardcover – June 17, 2014by Jason L. Riley (Author) who do agree with me. where have you been? Only on left wing sites? Accusing someone of being racist because their beliefs are different is just another form of bigotry. As for the Isis thing that is simply a correlation that I made. I have not read it anywhere, not on the right or the left sites I frequent.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        You can also google “the earth is flat” and find numerous resources to back it up. Confirmation bias is an easy thing these days. You can find anything you want, as crazy as it is, to back up literally any claim you make. I am not at all swayed or impressed and neither are the majority of African Americans, and the majority of people who live in the US, to include GOP politicians.

      • Andycane

        Are you possibly a troll? I see instead of engaging in intelligent discourse, you are hell bent on insulting anyone who disagree with you. Good Day Sir…

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        for the life of me, I can’t figure out why you come to a liberal site. Don’t let the door hit you on the ass. buh bye

      • Andycane

        For the life of me I cannot figure out why you come to any site, right, left or in between… Salut!

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Take your false equivalencies and treasonous flag apologies somewhere else. Again, bye

      • Andycane

        Take your false equivalencies and treasonous flag apologies somewhere else. Again, bye…

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        so the US flag is now a treasonous flag to you. Be sure to tell your friends.

      • Andycane

        so the US flag is now a treasonous flag to you. Be sure to tell your friends

      • Alan

        Maybe he’s trying to avoid that confirmation bias you were speaking of, hmm? Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t, it seems.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        No he’s not. He is a right wing troll who comes here to repeat Rush Limbaugh’s thoughts.

      • Blue

        Exactly. Why do black people vote for Democrats [ranging from 88 to 93 percent in the last four presidential elections] if Republicans are their real buddies?

      • Republicae

        By the way Matt, did you know that Jim Crow Laws only existed in the Northern States during the 1800s, they were rare or non-existent in the South during that period.

      • Matt Mtz

        More irrelevant bits of historical trivia. Slavery was a legal institution in this country for many years. When change finally came only some states decided to secede and to fight in order to maintain the institution of slavery. Who owned slaves and what laws existed where is completely irrelevant to the argument that many people see the Confederate flag, justifiably, as a symbol of hate, slavery, and oppression. Yes, there are people that disagree with that, but only because they choose to look at history in a very limited view. They view the civil war as a war that was justified (the south was justified). They will argue all day that it was purely about States’ rights. Then they ignore the rights that were being fought over.

      • Corbin

        Slavery was legal when the South seceded, and until the Emancipation two years into the war, there was no intent to end slavery. Even the emancipation only ended slavery in the states that had seceded, it was meant to help stir turmoil in the South. Lincoln was also advised at the time not to do it, for fear the Union Army would mutiny, since up to then, they had been told the war was to “Preserve the Union”, and there had been no intent up to then to free the slaves. The states that seceded, did so of their own free will, and the legal opinion of the time held that there was no legality against secession. We fought because we were invaded by an Army bent on subjugating us by force. Outsiders have their view of the Battle Flag, we have ours. If you ever live to see a military force enter your town, sack and burn it to the ground, like Sherman did to Columbia SC after the city had been surrendered and declared an open city, you may have a different perspective of one who has been on the short end of that stick.

      • Blue

        The Confederacy [not you, you weren’t alive] seceded to preserve slavery. The states of the Confederacy were invaded because they seceded.

        The battle flag was revived in the 50s and 60s with the express purpose of rebelling against the civil rights movement for racial equality.

        For you to complain about the short end of the stick is truly incredible. Slaves were people being bought, sold, worked to death, tortured, and raped without any recourse.

      • Flossie

        No matter how many times you say
        “the south seceded to preserve slavery and the south was invaded because they seceded”.
        …doesn’t change the fact that the Civil War was NOT over slavery.
        The war was over secession.

      • Blue

        Yeah, I’ve been saying all along that Lincoln went to war over secession. The South seceded over slavery, and Lincoln took the Union to war was secession. Not sure if you know who you’re arguing with. Possibly yourself?

        Can you possibly find me some examples of nations who allowed parts of their nation to separate without any sort of conflict?

      • Flossie

        The media, if you listen to them, will tell you the Civil War comes down to race and slavery and a lot of people believe that it does.

        Two sides are formed – if you favor the Confederacy, you are racist and blind to the plight of black America. – if you favor abolishing Confederate History and take down the flag, you are a free thinker willing to bury the past. It’s rare to find any common ground.

        If you know history, you know the South had solid, legal, moral and economic reasons for secession which had nothing to do with slavery. The war wasn’t about the two sides North or South fighting to run the government as in the English or Roman civil wars. The South attempted a peaceful secession, no different from the original American pleas from Britain. If the original ideal of federalism & constitutionalism had survived to 1860, the South would not have needed to secede.

        The Northern tariff loomed for over 3 decades; it was imposed to benefit Northern industrial interests by subsidizing their production through high prices and public works. It had the effect of forcing the South to pay more for goods and disproportionately taxing it to support the central government. It also interfered with trading relations with the rest of the world.

        So…. the South was being looted to pay for the North’s industrial policy. The battle over the tariff began in 1828, with the “tariff of abomination.” Thirty years later, the South was paying 87 percent of federal tariff revenue while having their livelihoods threatened by protectionist legislation, it become impossible for the two regions to be governed under the same regime. The South as a region was being reduced to a slave status, with the federal government as its master.

        Lincoln promised not to interfere with slavery, but he did pledge to “collect the duties and imposts”: he was the leading advocate of the tariff and public works policy, which is why his election prompted the South to secede.

        The Republican Platform of 1860 called for a high protective tariff that was anathema to the South.

        The Confederate Constitution is a duplicate of the original Constitution, with several improvements. It guarantees free trade, restricts legislative power in crucial ways, abolishes public works, and attempts to rein in the executive. No, it didn’t abolish slavery but neither did the original Constitution (in fact, the original protected property rights in slaves).

      • Blue

        Actually, the media is more likely to promote the shit you recite above than to talk about the real reason for secession-slavery.
        The proof is in their own words. There’s no morality to any of it. They wanted to keep slaves. Any economic “advantages” were the result of wage theft from black people.

      • Flossie

        You choose to be racist and that is on you.

      • Blue

        A good bit of this is cut and pasted from this link and posted without giving a source: http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Constitution_Issues/genesis_civil_war.htm

        The author is Lew Rockwell. He continuously refers to the issues surrounding the war without ever pointing out that black people were slaves. The focus is only on his belief that polices were unfair to the South and manages to be completely blind to his own immorality in defending treason to protect slavery.

      • Flossie

        I think you provided the wrong link.
        Please show where it was cut & pasted from.
        Lew Rockwell is an American libertarian author and editor but, I didn’t copy and paste his article, if that is what you are trying to say.
        A lot of the above information is history and easily researched or googled.
        Do you really think it is necessary to “point out black people were slaves in America”? Is there anyone on earth that doesn’t know that? It is possible to write an Article without “slave shaming” if that is what you mean.

      • Blue

        I said it right out loud. There wasn’t any trying to it. You cut and pasted the comment about the moral and economic reasons for slavery directly from his article.

        Researched, yes. But you cut and pasted and gave no link.

        Slave owners should be shamed. Who on earth defends the feelings of dead slave owners? No, it’s not possible to talk about this topic realistically without dealing with the topic of slavery. I know that many try, but it’s just more dishonesty.

      • Flossie

        There is a difference between cut and pasting and article and a comment, with quotations, from the article.
        I didn’t copy and paste his article.

        I have never defended slavery.
        It is part of the history of this country. (key word history)
        It cannot be erased.
        No one today owns slaves AND no one living today EVER owned slaves.
        You are not a slave and NO ONE living is a slave.
        Get over it.

      • Blue

        There were no quotations and no source provided. You posted as if those were your words. I highlighted a phrase and Google took me straight to the source.

        You are defending the position of the south. To say that’s not defending slavery is to split hairs.

        As I keep pointing out, it’s incredibly easy for you to order folks to get over it, not as easy for the descendants of slaves to follow your directions. Slavery is the original sin of this nation. We are not over it yet. Deal with it.

      • Blue
      • Flossie

        I think this link can help you. Good luck.

      • Flossie

        Problem solved …it now has a link.

      • Blue

        Nice apology! LOL

      • Flossie

        Thank you…lol.

      • Blue

        “If you favor Confederate symbols, it means you are a white person unsympathetic to the plight of blacks in America. If you favor abolishing Confederate History Month and taking down the flag, you are an enlightened thinker willing to bury the past so we can look forward to a bright future under progressive leadership.”

        That is plagarized.

        “It takes Northern war propaganda at face value without considering that the South had solid legal, moral, and economic reasons for secession which had nothing to do with slavery.”

        More than four words in a series = plagarism.

        To write anything about the Civil War without addressing slavery is idiotic. It’s not “slave shaming” a phrase that makes no sense on any leve-it’s looking at the primary reason for the war. Only slavery apologists will even attempt something so dumb.

      • Flossie

        You said I cut and pasted the article…..and this was not the article.

      • Blue

        As I have stated, the same misleading article is at many sites.

      • Flossie

        You keep saying it is a misleading article but, never state what is misleading about it.
        You never explain what you say and proceed to personally attack people to deflect from explaining.

      • Blue

        I wouldn’t call pointing out serial plagiarism as a personal attack.

        I’ve explained what I say over and over. Sometimes you misread the simplest things imaginable and accuse me random stuff, so I try to keep my posts short.

        From the article:

        “It takes Northern war propaganda at face value without considering that the South had solid legal, moral, and economic reasons for secession which had nothing to do with slavery.”

        That is a large and stinking pile of shit. The war was over slavery, based on the words of those who seceded. I’m going to link to these direct quotes once again.

        http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

        From the link:

        “The meaning of the Confederate flag is best discerned in the words of those who bore it.”

        Lew Rockwell’s version came after the Confederacy lost.

        No one can claim that any “moral” argument can follow from or be related to chattel slavery. Please notice that Rockwell never attempts to explain what he means by a “moral” argument for secession.

        “The South as a region was being reduced to a slave status, with the federal government as its master.”

        Look at what he’s done there. He’s actually invoked slavery to describe the south’s position in the nation, in order to let them off of the hook for possessing humans. He’s introducing the odious idea that slave owners had it rough, too! They were slaves! Even though to invoke tax policies that southerners didn’t like to humans being bought, sold, raped, tortured, chained, having their families split up, and having no agency at all in their own lives is laughable on its face.

        “The South attempted a peaceful secession from federal control, an ambition no different from the original American plea for independence from Britain.”

        Which led to our Revolutionary War. I mean even his biggest fans must find this one tough to swallow!

      • Flossie

        “I wouldn’t call pointing out serial plagiarism as a personal attack”

        Links were added and yet you still mention it in every post.
        Problem solved. Let it go.
        It becomes a personal attack with your snarky rudeness and name calling.

        “I’ve explained what I say over and over. Sometimes you misread the simplest things imaginable and accuse me random stuff…..”
        It’s not necessary to explain “over and over”, that’s when it becomes confusing, say it once and let it go.

        “… so I try to keep my posts short.”
        The above post is certainly not short.

        You had to go through your links/rant speech again (yawn) to get to your real comment.

        The South did not secede by surprise.
        Lincoln wasn’t on the ballot in 10 southern states, once elected, did the Union think it would just go away?
        Slavery was a legal institution and practiced in all slave states.

        In 1858 there were 15 slave states and 2 slave territories.
        In 1861 there were 15 slave states and 2 slave territories.

        Nowhere in his articles does Rockwell say slave owners had it rougher than the slaves.

        It wasn’t just “tax policies that Southerners didn’t like”.
        (you try to minimize reality while accusing Rockwell of doing the same)
        The South was strangled from tax tariffs to fund the North’s industrial growth with no benefits to the South.

        If you were to tell the citizens in 15 Southern States today that ALL their Tax Revenue will be going to NY and NJ to build up their infrastructure, economy and help their citizen, but NOTHING will be spent on their states, what do you think would happen?
        (slavery doesn’t exist today, but do you think the Southern states would object?)

        The South did attempt a peaceful secession from federal control.
        They were being robbed by the Union.

      • Blue

        I had to make numerous posts before you’d accept that you were busted. I have 1) pointed out you were doing it and 2) responded to your comments about it. You don’t bring it up again or do it again, the problem is solved.

        No, that post is certainly not short. If they’re short, you complain that I didn’t put every thought I had in them, if they’re long you complain about their length. LOL

        You wanted specifics, I gave them to you.

        Rockwell compares slave owners to slaves. I didn’t say that he said that slave owners had it worse. Just his making the comparison is sufficiently odious.

        The South seceded, they had to be expecting a fight over it. This “oh they just wanted to go peacefully” nonsense is lame.

        White southerners profitted by stealing the labor of other human beings, but you want to talk about white southerners’ complaints about their tax rates? How can anyone stand to make that argument in defense of secession? It’s grotesque.

      • Flossie

        Well said.

      • Flossie

        In your own words “you believe the South was fighting a War to maintain the institution of slavery, but WHO owned slaves and WHERE the laws existed was irrelevant”.
        Does that make sense?

      • Matt Mtz

        Yes. It makes perfect sense. It is irrelevant if there were discriminatory laws in the North. It is irrelevant who owned slaves and where. What is relevant is who fought to maintain the status quo. No one here is arguing that slavery was not considered acceptable throughout the country when the civil war started. What matters is some people were willing to let go of that institution and make changes, others were not.

      • Flossie

        The North’s goal in the beginning was the preservation of the Union, not emancipation.
        Shall I repeat that? – the PRESERVATION of the Union.
        The North and South were very different in nature and wanted different things from their government. So, basically the issue was not the existence of slavery, but the extension of it.

        Lincoln did not receive a majority of the popular vote, he did gain a majority in the Electoral College. He won the election by carrying the Northern states, Calif and Oregon. He failed to receive ONE single electoral vote in the South, where in TEN states he was not even on the ballot.
        After his election – South Carolina and then one by one, six other
        states—Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, and
        Texas—also left the Union, calling their new country the
        Confederate States of America.

        The South funded the Union’s government and the Union could not let it go. Cotton produced in the American South earned more money than
        all other U.S. exports combined. So… the Union was fine as long as slaves funded their government, but when the states seceded then the North had a problem with it.
        Example: The North held THEIR slaves for over a year after the War.

        Historians have said the Civil War was the
        unfinished business of the Revolution and
        the Constitution, and yet today that business
        is still incomplete.

      • Matt Mtz

        The popular vote in Presidential elections is irrelevant. The electoral college is what matters, and rightfully so. I live in a State that would be irrelevant if not for the electoral collage. It was written into the Constitution for a reason.

        With everything you have said, which I already knew, why did the southern statest include slavery in their secession declarations?

      • Flossie

        Slavery was a legal institution at the time.
        Lincoln wasn’t on the ballot in 10 southern states, therefore they had no vote…electoral or popular.

      • Matt Mtz

        If there were other presidential candidates on their ballots, then they DID have a vote.

        If you are going to make a claim that somehow 10 states were excluded from the presidential election where Lincoln won his presidency, then say it. Its on you to back it up. I am not a history professor. I admit their are many historical details that I am not aware of. I will research any evidence you propose, but I will not do the research for you

      • John Cocktosen

        Two Christian ministers who own an Idaho wedding chapel were told they had to either perform same-sex weddings or face jail time and up to a thousand dollar fine according to a lawsuit filed Friday in a federal court. Maybe I’m not so ignorant, Captain Superior.

      • Flossie

        Okay then.

      • Matt Mtz

        They own a what? Oh, that’s right, a BUSINESS!! If these ministers simply had their own church, non-profit and tax exempt, they could choose which couples they wanted to perform ceremonies without being forced to comply with anti-discrimination laws.

        Do you get it now? Is it too hard to comprehend.

        Business=must comply with discrimination laws.

        Church= Not for profit=freedom of religion.

      • John Cocktosen

        The church’s tax exemptness (I realize that’s not a real word) is under attack as we speak. I’m not gonna argue with you. I’m too tired from working 13 hour days doing construction to provide for my family. My predictions will come to fruition. And when they do you’ll be happy and I won’t. There is no freedom of religion here anymore. Nor is there freedom of speech. Unless you wanna risk your livelihood speaking your mind and then getting attacked by the likes of you who say you’re for these freedoms but really you’re only for them if they don’t offend your particular sense of values. Can’t anyone just live the way they wanna live and leave everybody else alone?!? What a concept! You go wave your rainbow flag and burn the American flag and I’ll leave you alone. But you can’t leave me alone. You want to tell me what’s best for me and how I’m wrong. I’ve already got the government doing that. I don’t need you to pile on.

      • Matt Mtz

        “Can’t anyone just live the way they wanna live and leave everybody else alone?!”

        That is a wonderful idea. That is exactly what the LGBT community has been asking for all these years. Now they finally are on equal legal ground with the rest of us.

        Look, the entire subject of tax exempt status was brought up during the Supreme Court arguments. Back when it was illegal for a white person to marry a black person, the court had to force it to become legal. At the time, the popular vote would have continued with the ban on such marriages. Sometimes freedoms are about protecting the minority rather than allowing the majority to control everything. Anyway, when the court ruled it was unconstitutional to ban interracial marriages, some religious institutions lost their tax exempt status due to not allowing interracial marriages to be performed at their churches. That is far different from priests or ministers being prosecuted and thrown in jail (as some have predicted). Churches are free to choose which couples they allow to marry based on their religious beliefs, but when those beliefs conflict with the legal protections of minority groups (protected classes), then the government no longer had to honor tax exempt status. The churches can continue discriminating and pay their taxes. No big deal.

        I mostly got riled up because people seem to confuse a business with a church. I mentioned the tax exempt status because that means they have been recognized as a church. Even without tax exempt status, I believe they can be classified as a religious institution or church (I need to do more research to find out).

      • John Cocktosen

        Well admittedly you seem to be more educated than me. I’m a Libertarian. I’m anti big government, fiscally conservative, pro pot (I love pot) pro gay marriage, pro guns, pro capitalism, blah blah. I don’t need to tell a smart guy like you what a libertarian is. Look, two of my best friends are lesbians who reside in Boston and once a year I spend more $ than I should to go visit them. If I still had a Facebook account you could see me at the Boston Pride Parade waving a rainbow flag. I know these people want to live their lives and be left alone. But so do I. I’m a white male, registered republican (I’ve been meaning to change that to independent) who served in the Army. I love America and I love our history. I am what everyone seems to be trying to eradicate. But I leave everybody alone to do their own thing. Why can’t people extend the same deal to me??

      • Blue

        Because black people in the south were slaves. Duh.

      • Texasproud

        You can take away all the flags you want no matter what they mean or stand for and hid history but is that really going to stop racism…

      • Matt Mtz

        I agree wholeheartedly. Removing the Confederate flag from state buildings in South Carolina (and other places), is NOT about stopping racism. It is about a state flying a symbol that IS about slavery and oppression to many people (not all people).

      • Andycane

        Again, what about The American flag which presided over the Genocide of and entire continent of Native Americans?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        but, it’s a start.

      • Blue

        You can stop waving a symbol of white supremacy in the face of non-white people. If you’d realize for five seconds that this isn’t about YOU, that would be awesome.

      • Texasproud

        You see the flag as racism I don’t I’m entitled to my opinion my great grandfather fought and died for the south he was a farmer and fought for his home the same way Americans would do today we would fly the American flag high even if we lost or won. It can be argued that the war was fought over slavery but it was not. Lincoln would not let the south go because of economic crash the south were agriculturist and the north were industry as with today it is always about money if the south went there separate way the north would crash and Lincoln was not about to have that so he invaded the south and we fought proud. Slavery was all around in the north,South, all around the world and I admit I think it was wrong no person should serve another person unless willing to do so on their free will but that was not what the south was fighting for they got invaded and fought back only after the north won did the north try to interoperate the flag to a symbol of slavery.

      • Blue

        So your heritage matters, but not the heritage of black Americans?

      • Kenneth Bomhan

        Mat your right about the water fountains, and such and segregation but it was in the North too and it was under the Federal Government that could have over turned the Jim Crow Laws way before they did. At this was done under the US Flag Officially for North and South. There is more Racism in the North today than the South. And again the most used flag for the KKK is the American Flag.

      • Andycane

        And the KKK was predominantly Democrat.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        please check when the parties switched….. man, your ignorance is overwhelming. Tell me again why so few African Americans are in the GOP again? And what party is the party of David Duke? And why did Strom Thurmond switch parties? Please elaborate….

      • Andycane

        Indeed there was a switch, as the “Democrats were the conservatives of the mid to late 19th century and Republicans were the liberals. The South was solidly Democratic and the KKK was formed by disaffected confederates who would rather have died than support the party of Lincoln.”

        http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/grant-kkk/ http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfmfuseaction=pages.DYKKKKTerroristArmoftheDemocratParty. These are only two of many articles. In my opinion, both parties are now tainted by a greater percentage of power hungry, and warmongering individuals. The welfare state was created to make the blacks a dependent people, to control and bring them to their knees. And there are certainly intelligent blacks who agree.
        And even if you believe it was not created for that purpose, it certainly hasn’t helped most of them to be the strong and dignified people they once were.

      • Blue

        “There are certainly intelligent blacks who agree [with me]”.

        Hilarious.

        Black people were initially left out of the welfare state. Blacks were and are strong and dignified people, but being left out of assistance programs did not make them stronger or more dignified. It made them poorer and more vulnerable.

      • Andycane

        I don’t believe welfare dynasties make any race stronger and more dignified. And I will say again there are certainly blacks who agree, and who publish books on the subject if you care to research . Trying to paint me as a racist will not make it so.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        It’s hilarious you think all black people are on welfare. What is it like to be such a total dumbass? Is that you again Cliven Bundy?

      • Andycane

        It’s hilarious you think (that I think) all black people are on welfare. What is it like to be such a total dumbass? Is that you again Cliven Bundy?

        R

      • Blue

        You’re doing the painting yourself. I’m just observing. When you put “intelligent” into the your sentence, you outed yourself.

      • Andycane

        I have found that it is predictable for progressives to assume that anyone who disagrees with them is on the right, (and therefore a possible racist) , just as it is predictable for those on the right to assume anyone who holds an opinion that is contrary to theirs is a left winged socialist, but I don’t identify with any party. In fact I find the right /left thing as tiresome as these forums where few can discuss without being rude, or acting as if they hold the keys to the universe. They and only they… I did not mean that the blacks who may hold opinions contrary to mine were necessarily less intelligent, only that there were intelligent individuals who are also black and who also share my opinions.

      • Blue

        Thanks for the clarification. I’m sure you can see my point considering your wording.

      • Andycane

        You are most welcome. I try to make my points comprehensive, but it can be difficult, especially when one is in the heat of the debate.

      • Blue

        Welcome to 2015. The KKK stopped being predominately Democractic party members or voters 50 years ago.

      • Andycane

        50 years is a drop in the bucket. I gather it is not permissible to discuss the history of the Confederate flag, only it’s present?

      • Blue

        Who’s trying to stop you from discussing anything at all?

      • Andycane

        The recent hysteria about the Confederate flag is not limited to the last 50 years, nor is my discussion of the KKK and it’s party members. Welcome to 2015?

      • Blue

        Never said otherwise. But your comment about Democrats was misleading. I updated you.

      • Andycane

        Thanks, it is helpful to see how one comes across to others, that way one can endeavor to express oneself more clearly.

      • Texasproud
      • Blue

        This ignores history. Yes, our country had legal slavery, yes our country committed genocide against native tribes, yes, Jim Crow and red-lining were legal. But our country also passed the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. This is an attempt to improve ourselves and make up for what we’ve done in the past. The Confederate flag is solely about the Civil War, and was revived as an act of rebellion against the Civil Rights Act. Therefore, it’s primarily a symbol of hatred, unlike the Stars and Stripes.

      • Alan

        Opposition to the Civil Rights Act, at least for myself, is not based on hatred or a desire to have businesses engage in racial discrimination; it’s based on my view that if someone owns property, that means they have sole discretion over the way in which it should be used, and that includes using it in an ignorant way. Honestly, the CRA is not cramming us full of morality, do you think? If you admit that legislation cannot improve the moral constitution of the people, then the effect is that these bigots will stay in business instead of being boycotted for their racism and going out of business. Why do you want to give your money to racists, or gay haters, or any other such types? Give them the rope they need to hang themselves.

      • Blue

        You miss the point. The purpose of the CRA is to allow ANYONE to travel freely in the across the nation. The point was NEVER to improve anyone’s morals. I do not give a rat’s ass about some pizza place owner’s morals. I care about people being able to go about their daily lives, even if they are black! Or female! Or gay! Or wearing a turban or yarmulke! That is freedom. Being free from the a business owner’s imposition of his own morality on me.

        Black people in particular had their movements restricted by discrimination.

        Imagine yourself traveling across the country and not being able to find a restaurant so you could have a hot meal or a hotel so you could get a shower. That would mean no family vacations or business trips, obviously. That means you are not free in your own nation. Not free to travel, not free to have certain careers like traveling salesman, just plain not free.

        Think of the lunch counter sit-ins. It’s a perfect example. If you’re white, sit right down. If you’re black, bring a sack lunch, OR pay the same price for the food but pick it up at the back door and eat in the alley. That is not freedom.

      • Alan

        I don’t think “freedom” to other people’s property is right; it doesn’t even make sense logically. Either someone owns their property or they don’t, and they just get to use it so long as others are happy with the way they use it. THAT is not freedom. So if the government wants to make sure people have the freedom to travel like that, then the proper course of action is to use taxes to build and operate facilities that afford those necessities of travel; the proper course is NOT to infringe upon the people’s basic right of property.

        I’m not saying that’s even the best solution, just one that doesn’t involve the government doing the very opposite of what it’s supposed to do, which is to protect people’s rights. Even better solutions could be devised, if we would refuse to abandon our principles for the sake of a merely more convenient solution. You ever heard the saying “It’s amazing what you can accomplish when you don’t view failure as an option”? It’s true.

      • Blue

        There’s at least a couple of reasons you can’t wrap your mind around the concept.

        I think one is that you identify with the property owner’s property rights rather than the black person’s liberty. You see property as the ultimate in freedom. I see it as human liberty. The freedom to move freely in the country for work or leisure, to meet their own goals in life, any goals that they could achieve. Without waiting for the government to build a series of comparable accommodations everywhere in sight. That’s the principle you abandon when you put property over all.

        Another is that you think everything can be solved by the marketplace. Even Adam Smith didn’t think that the marketplace could solve every problem.

        MLK didn’t accept failure, the result was the Civil Rights Act. The CRA protects freedom, it doesn’t take it away. And I think he’d get a good laugh at the idea that it was convenient to get it. KWIM?

      • Alan

        “If you’re white, sit right down. If you’re black, bring a sack lunch, OR
        pay the same price for the food but pick it up at the back door and eat
        in the alley. That is not freedom.”

        Actually, if those are the rules set by the (admittedly shitty) owner of that business, then yes, it IS freedom. I don’t personally agree with those rules and would not frequent such a business, but guess what?… Real freedom means we’re going to see people doing things we don’t find agreeable. If you don’t like that, and your preferred response is to deny them their freedom, then at least be honest with yourself; don’t take up arms against the exercise of freedom while believing you’re really for it.

      • Blue

        Actually, that is NOT freedom. It is NOT FREEDOM for the black person trying to function in society. The black person trying to travel found that he/she could not find a place to eat or sleep or shower. Therefore, their freedom to move around in society is severely restricted. They cannot go on vacation in certain areas. They cannot have certain careers.

        If you prefer that black people be denied the basic ability to move freely around the country and to pursue the job of their choice, at least admit that you prefer that their freedom be granted or denied at anyone’s random whim. Don’t pretend you support freedom while actively supporting tyranny.

      • Alan

        Blue, if you can’t take me at my word, that I don’t support the treatment of black people in this way, then we’re done talking. I’m not going to waste my time with someone who doesn’t have the basic decency of taking me at my word, not having any evidence to the contrary. I am not someone who supports having government pay for much of ANYTHING, and yet if it were so difficult for certain people to travel and there aren’t private establishments enough to provide for all who are traveling, then I would support the use of taxes to pay for facilities to enable that travel. I do agree with you that people should be free to travel, so stop trying to put words in my mouth and accuse me of wanting some situation to which I have already proposed a solution.

        Furthermore, I’d like to note that it’s not on me or anyone in particular to come up with a solution; it’s on all of us, and if we remain committed to the principles of freedom, people will come up with solutions. You don’t get to propose some difficult “what if” scenario, and then say, “Oh, you don’t have an answer off the top of your head? Well, you lose your rights!” The proper course of action is to find solutions which respect *everyone’s* rights.

        We have freedom of travel because there are public places which are accepted as commonly owned and administered by the government. I don’t hear you complaining that the people can’t get where they’re going because blacks aren’t allowed on the road, right? No, it’s because there might not be friendly private establishments where they’re going. So why is the solution to take over the private establishments, rather than have government maintain these basic requirements, as it maintains roads?

        Rights all come down to ownership. I have a right to do what I want with my own property. The very fact of our personal liberty comes from the fact that we own ourselves. Our rights in tangible property come from the fact that we trade portions of our life and freedom in attaining it. To steal or limit others’ use of their property simply because you don’t agree with how they’re using it, is tantamount to stealing that portion of their life they traded in acquiring it.

      • Blue

        Oh, the shoe on the other foot pinches, does it? You can question my belief in freedom, but I cannot question yours.

        I don’t care about your personal feelings, the topic is institutional racism, not you as a person.

        Rights do not come down to ownership. They come down to human freedom. The freedom to do, to go, to believe, to achieve.

        To propose that the government build and run alternative restaurants and hotels and stores all over the nation is not only cumbersome, it fails the concept of capitalism pretty completely. You have people who are shut out of the marketplace. They can’t pick and choose the restaurant they like, they are forced to take the government option. They can’t decide that showers at one hotel are too cold and pick another hotel with hotter showers, they can only go to the government option. They can’t go to a private university, they have to choose the government option.

        The idea that the private establishments have been “taken over” is false. They’ve been told that part of doing business is allowing equal access to all. Other parts of doing business are complying with health and safety laws and employment laws. None of that is taking over their business.

        To restrict the movement of others is the denial of a fundamental right. This is what you favor. You put property rights [and property is often inherited-less often by those who don’t have access to all the choices our society provides] ahead of human rights.

      • Blue

        A trivial fact. The larger truth is that slavery was a system promoted by rich white men, that the south was a place of on-going terrorism for anyone with black skin, and that those black slave owners were at risk of being enslaved themselves.

      • donny dunlap

        You should think of using a better word than terrorism. The definition of terrorism is the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. White men weren’t terrorist in their own country. As for the black slave owners being enslaved themselves please resort to my post above.

      • Blue

        Yes, white men were terrorists in their own country against black people in order to maintain slavery.

      • Flossie

        Who freed the slaves? White men.

      • Blue

        Yes, other white men. What is your point?

        In the South, only white people had freedom. Even freed black people could be caught and put into slavery. Black skin meant it was OK to terrorize you.

      • Flossie

        “other white men”…..a man is a white man period.

      • Blue

        And that means what? What is the point of the comment in the first place?

      • Flossie

        Yeah….what was the point of your comment in the first place?

        “Yes, white men were terrorists in their own country against black people in order to maintain slavery”.

        White Terrorist is the new politically correct term for racist, since the Charleston shootings.

      • Blue

        You’re off the rails here. A person can be a racist and not a terrorist and vice versa.

        The poster I was responding to said that Roof was not a terrorist, but Roof meets the definition of terrorist quite well.

      • Flossie

        I was addressing the comment you made calling white slave owners terrorists:
        “Yes, white men were terrorists in their own country against black people in order to maintain slavery.”

        What about the black slave owners?

        I ask “who freed the slaves”
        you responded “the other white men”.

        You were talking about white slave owners, not Roof.

      • Blue

        It wasn’t just white slave OWNERS. It was many people acting in collusion to keep slaves in slavery through terrorism.

        You said white men freed the slaves. Not sure what your beef is here.

      • Flossie

        Back peddle….
        Your exact words were:
        “Yes, white men were terrorists in their own country against black people in order to maintain slavery”

        NOW it wasn’t just white slave owners. It was many people…..
        I said white men freed the slaves because they did, so ALL white men must not be terrorists as you insinuated.
        But everything you say has TWO meanings so when you get called out …..you scan slip out the back door.

      • Blue

        That is just kind of dumb. I never insinuated any such thing, and I certainly can’t put every thought into every post.

      • Flossie

        Nice Apology….LOL.

      • Blue

        I never insinutated that all white men were terrorists. You claim is just kind of dumb and you cannot possibly back it up.

        To claim that by first mentioning white slave owners, and then pointing out that nons-slave owners were complicit in defending and enforcing slavery is “slipping out the back door”, or that I have “two meanings” to what I say makes zero sense. Surely you are aware that slave owners employed white people to force slaves to work, and that other white members of the community would ask to see a slave’s letter of permission to be off of their owners property [gag], and that the local law enforcement would help to find and capture escaped slaves.

      • Flossie

        You went from “white men were terrorists in their own country against black people in order to maintain slavery”
        to
        “it wasn’t just white slave OWNERS. It was many people acting in collusion to keep slaves in slavery through terrorism.

        to
        “I never insinuated that all white men were terrorists”

        I think you can see the room for misinterpretation.

        Slavery in any form is wrong, but as long as we teach our children racism, we will always be a slave to it.

      • Blue

        Honestly, no snark, I cannot see the room for misinterpretation. You would have to go into reading it with such a bias against anyone who saw things differently than you that you read what you wanted to read.

        The idea that I was saying in any of that “all white men were terrorists” is just not a reasonable interpretation. The idea that I was saying that only slave owners were terrorists makes no sense, either, as everyone knows that there were overseers and law enforcement participating in keeping slaves captive.

      • Flossie

        Misinterpretation duly noted.

      • soctal

        check yourself.

      • Flossie

        check yoself.

      • soctal

        “white men were terrorists in their own country against black people in order to maintain slavery”

        Actually its fairly accurate. white slave holders and non slave holders did indeed practice a culture of fear and terror to keep black people in fear. Were ALL whites doing this, no. But enough to make it a correct term.

        You like to say “Africans sold their own into slavery”, you dont use any qualifiers or percentages when you say that.

      • soctal

        “so ALL white men must not be terrorists as you insinuated. ”
        This is your classic strawman argument. Who said All white men were terrorists??? NO ONE. Come on, do better than that.

      • Flossie

        Quote: “Yes, white men were terrorists in their own country against black people in order to maintain slavery.”

        Strawman argument?….. lol….. that’s what you say when you lose an argument…..lol….so you surrender?

      • soctal

        “What about the black slave owners?” What about them?

      • Flossie

        Why weren’t black slave owners terrorists?

      • gman8336

        Of the few slaves that were “owned” by Blacks, many were purchased to protect them and some were more like employees referred to as indentured servants

      • Flossie

        Did you write that with a straight face?…..

      • Nihilist000

        This statement shows your neo-nazi white supremacist solidarity right up front. Thank you for screaming white pride neo nazi klansmen pigshit.

      • Flossie

        Your ignorance of history, slavery and the South is apparent.
        Please go “study up” TROLL or sit this one out.

      • Rebe Lee

        30,000 free Southern blacks owned slaves. Indian Tribes were free and owned slaves. Keep trying though…

      • Blue

        Pointless trivia. Stop trying.

      • Rebe Lee

        How is it pointless trivia? You said only whites in the South were free. That just isn’t correct.

      • Blue

        Yes, only whites were free because black people had to carry proof of their free status. That free status could be disputed, and that black person could be put into slavery.

        That some black people or Native Americans owned slaves is pointless trivia. Black people and Native Americans didn’t set up the system of laws that enslaved black people, and they didn’t have equal rights.

      • Flossie

        It’s pointless? only when it doesn’t fit into your argument.. you lose.

      • Blue

        It’s trivia. Pointless trivia. Why? Because neither black men who owned slaves or Native Americans who owned slaves created the system. That system was created by rich white men who invented white supremacy to justify slavery.

        The discussion is about institutional racism.

      • Flossie

        Technically …. African Tribal leaders created the system.
        Had they not sold rival tribe members to slavers, then we wouldn’t have any African slaves.

      • Blue

        That is possibly true. However: Again, I’m talking about institutional racism.

      • Flossie

        The root of all slavery goes back to it’s beginning in Africa.
        Technically… African Tribal leaders created the system by selling their human commodity.

        You are trying to blaming the system on “rich white men” and spitting out excuses to absolve everyone else.
        It doesn’t work that way.

      • Blue

        I’m stating facts, and facts always work.

        Rich white men bought people from African tribal leaders, and created a truly horrible system here in America.

        Your concern for these long dead men is misplaced and illogical. They need neither excuses nor blame. This is about what living Americans need.

      • Flossie

        Stating what facts? Please show your links for your facts.
        What concern? I didn’t deny slavery existed and I do not defend it,
        but I do deny anyone living today is responsible for it.

      • Blue

        Here are some links that tell about slavery and the “Black Codes” in the post-civil war era.

        http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactivities/presentations/timeline/expref/slavery/

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Codes_(United_States)

        You talked about me blaming people for slavery as if they needed your defense. Of course those involved are to blame. Who else could possibly be blamed?

        Why on earth are you bothering to say that no one living today is responsible for slavery. Of course not. That’s the point I was making.

      • Flossie

        I ask for links to the “facts” you spoke about regarding your statements that:

        “Rich white men bought people from African tribal leaders, and created a truly horrible system here in America.
        They need neither excuses nor blame.
        This is about what living Americans need.”
        (what do living Americans need?)
        and
        “The system was created by rich white men who invented white supremacy to justify slavery.”

        You advised the above statements were fact and I ask you to provide links to the facts.

        Instead you provided links to information on “Black Codes”.
        You must have read my previous post to “The Angry Turtle” where I spoke of the Black Codes, because you hadn’t mentioned it before.

        You really need to study history.
        You shouldn’t lack the courage to learn the truth regarding ALL the ugliness of the past. You can’t replace historical facts. It is what it is. To say that today’s black children live in terror due to slavery is complete BS and if you want to be wealthy…..then go out and earn it.

      • Blue

        You said: I ask for links to the “facts” you spoke about regarding your statements that:

        “Rich white men bought people from African tribal leaders, and created a truly horrible system here in America.
        They need neither excuses nor blame.
        This is about what living Americans need.”
        (what do living Americans need?)
        and
        “The system was created by rich white men who invented white supremacy to justify slavery.”

        You advised the above statements were fact and I ask you to provide links to the facts.

        Instead you provided links to information on “Black Codes”.
        You must have read my previous post to “The Angry Turtle” where I spoke of the Black Codes, because you hadn’t mentioned it before.

        Me: Please keep in mind that other people have read. We don’t all sit around waiting for you to tell us about things.

        Also, I can’t tell you everything I know in every post.

        I linked you to information about what reality was like at the time of slavery and after slavery.

        You: You really need to study history.
        You shouldn’t lack the courage to learn the truth regarding ALL the ugliness of the past. You can’t replace historical facts. It is what it is.

        Me: That’s what I KEEP TELLING YOU. You can face the facts. You don’t have to defend any rich white men who lived centuries or decades ago. Just admit that they did something wrong. It’s not my fault. It’s not your fault. But it did happen and like other historical events, it influences us today.

        You: To say that today’s black children live in terror due to slavery is complete BS and if you want to be wealthy…..then go out and earn it.

        Me: You really are just such a goober. I did not say that today’s black children lived in terror due to slavery. You are just making stuff up. Google straw man, and try to avoid this common error in logic.

      • Jenkem Jones

        Actually kidnapping of free men was rare. Twelve years a slave is fiction. It was written by several friends, one of whom was a free man that claimed to have visited the South. He was not kidnapped or ever a slave.

      • Blue
      • Tommy Day

        That I’d the most Un educated post I’ve seen…the civil war was not about slavery u dumbass..
        it was the southern states succeeding from america.. read ur dam book again..Yankee generals had slaves!!! are u saying our national flag is tainted also.. this is America we have the right to wave what ever flag we want.. if ur offended move to where ur not offended.
        As far as segregation goes..all races seem to segregate them selves..look at the million man march.. we fought as a country for civil rights and to segregate ur self is very racist in my opinion. Be an american…there is no place called Africa america…Mexican america…Latin america…show them to me on a map. Doesn’t exist!! Be an American or get the hell out…

      • Flossie

        You seem confused Tommy Day.
        What the hell are you talking about u dumbass?

      • RealVoiceOfReason

        Resorting to name calling….you have lost.

      • Flossie

        Quick to Judge…. you have lost.
        Look at the first line in Tommy Day’s comment.

      • soctal

        He is also wrong in the first line.

      • Flossie

        yawn….

      • soctal

        The 13th amendment made the American flag a flag of free people. Something that cant be said for the Confederate flags. Fly your flags on your private property, they dont belong on state grounds.

      • Rebe Lee

        Google Lincoln’s own proposed 13th Amendment, then repeat yourself like you still believe what you said.

      • gman8336

        Slavery was a major issue related to the Civil War.

      • soctal

        There were 180,000 black Union soldiers in the Civil War that fought to free their people as well.

      • Rebe Lee

        What? They joined because they were given freedom in exchange for it. Lest you forget, the North had slaves too.

      • Steven Bradley

        Terror is what one feels everyday when they live in a society that judges ones value by the color of their skin and has the history of the United States in dealing with racial issues. My earliest memories recall that terror. The terror grew as I overheard the adults recounting acts of terrorism perpetrated in the recent past.

        As for this statement, “The definition of terrorism is the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.” The political aim was keeping slavery as the foundation of economy in the region through the practice of subjugating other human beings. Stealing their dignity, liberty, and labor to build your safe and secure world that you of white complexion benefit from.

      • Blue

        I thought it was understood that keeping black people as slaves would be a political aim.

        The South functioned as a terror state to keep slaves from escaping or revolting.

      • Jenkem Jones

        No, actually most slaves where quite loyal to their masters. Many of them took their masters last name and continued to work as employees or share croppers at plantations and farms where they were previously slaves.

      • Blue

        And you believe that is a sign of loyalty? You are remarkably gullible.

      • Jenkem Jones

        I bet you are loyal to whoever pays you.

      • Blue

        Interesting comment. Were you referring to the fact that slaves were not paid, therefore, unlikely to have any loyalty to those who stole their labor?

      • Heylottylotty

        You need to read “Uncle Tom’s Cabin”.

      • Flossie

        You are remarkably racist.

      • Blue

        You are remarkably random.

      • Flossie

        The North did not welcome the freed slaves.
        Check your history.

      • Blue

        I never said that they did.

      • Flossie

        You did say :
        “The South functioned as a terror state to keep slaves from escaping or revolting”.

        So once free….why did they stay?

      • Blue

        Because of the Black Codes that you claim to know so much about.

      • Flossie

        Please point out the statement I made “claiming to know so much about Black Codes”.

      • Blue

        You’ve got memory loss, too? That does explain a lot.

        Yesterday, you claimed that I must have gotten my information about the Black Codes from you, because I’d never mentioned it until after you did.

      • Flossie

        You make all these bravado statements and claims, but when it comes time to back it up or provide links, you change the subject and deflect your reasoning to another topic.
        That does explain a lot.

        If you quote facts….you should be able to back it up.

        So you learned something, it’s okay to admit that.

      • Blue

        Well, no. I don’t. You keep demanding links but you won’t explain what you want backed up. Which tells me that you’re just spinning.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        are you really still here defending slavery and its symbols?

      • Flossie

        I never defended slavery and am not defending it now Blue.

      • Flossie

        Yep. It’s easier to just make snide comments when you are too ignorant about a subject to actually talk about it.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        “Yep”, you are here defending slavery. Gotcha.

      • Flossie

        Is that all you got commie?

      • Heylottylotty

        Here’s something brought to my attention. When the Progressive trolls “attack” they respond to fact with emotion. Then when emotion is shared, they attack with fact (real or imagined). It is a method to confuse the person(s) trying to “help” them understand; we need to understand they don’t want to. They want to complete their agenda, get paid as shills, and punch the time clock.

      • Blue

        Got that backward.

      • Heylottylotty

        No, keeping them on today’s Democrat “Plantation” is a political aim.

        The South used slaves as a Legal (by Fed. Law) way to have cheap labor on the farms when there were not enough other races to do the work. The North used slaves as well in factories and mills, and mines but this fact seems to have disappeared when Lincoln declared war.

        There are still records of “slaves” share cropping and owning homes as well as going to war to protect the South from the War of Northern Aggression.

      • Blue

        Those talking points make no sense whatsoever.

      • Heylottylotty

        If you refer to your own post, mine were in response to your “talking points”.

        There was no reason to “keeping black people…” for political purposes. There were only two others.
        One: it was legal in the U.S. at that time, and
        Two: workers, like managers, and equipment are overhead. decrease the cost of overhead and (any business knows) the net profit increases.

        The South had already begun discussions toward abolishing slavery when the War of Northern Aggression was declared by Pres. Lincoln. As anyone knows about history, slavery was not a major “industry” and owners were fewer than 3% of the farmers throughout the Confederate states.

      • Blue

        You are reciting ridiculous talking points. To repeatedly point out that slavery was legal is idiotic. So what? They were still people. Not machinery.

        The 3% stat is widely cited and totally wrong. It was actually 25% to 33%.

        The south was trying to expand slavery. Not abolish it.

      • Edward Barham

        BTW, the South was in the process of abolishing slavery when the North INVADED! Had the North not INVADED, slavery would have ended sooner. And the last states to abolish slavery were NORTHERN STATES, not Southern ones.

      • Blue

        The south was doing no such thing.

      • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

        AMEN!

      • soctal

        Total RUBBISH! They wanted not only to preserve it, but expand it west and export it into South America. The constitutions of the Confedaracy makes that clear.

        Georgia was the last state to ratify the 13th amendment. on December 6, 1865.

      • Flossie

        60 to 70% of the approximately 13 million slaves who survived the voyage to ended up in Brazil or the sugar colonies of the Caribbean. Only 6% arrived in America. America didn’t expand slavery to South America.

      • Don knows better

        Actually that would be Delaware. They were the last state to ratify the 13th amendment in 1901. They rejected it in 1865. So please go slap your history teacher and pick up a book that wasn’t written by unionist or federalist.

      • Flossie

        NJ ratified in 1866.

      • Heylottylotty

        The secession clauses in some of the Confed. states have the right to own slaves BECAUSE it was a Federal law of the U.S. (not just the South). Secession was never about giving up rights nor was it about changing them. It was about the forced inequality that the Federal Government pushed with taxation, basically forcing the South in to slavery for the gov’t. Take a moment out of the ranting and really consider what, if anything, slavery has to do with the U.S. over the past 150 years. The prejudice in our history has become the whipping post the North has STILL tried to flog the South with. Is it jealousy? Do people still put headstones to honor the dead? Should all of them be removed by doziers and crushed? Those people surely in their lifetime have disrespected or wronged someone. So, wiping out their memory is the solution?

      • Flossie

        “Racism” is what one feels everyday when they live in a society that judges ones value by the color of their skin, not “Terror”.
        Terrorism and Racism does not have the same meaning.

      • Steven Bradley

        No, it is terror I feel when I am surrounded by racists. Terror is the feeling one has when confronted with racism.

      • Flossie

        Slavery has existed all over the world for thousands of years, it wasn’t born in the United States and it played a minuscule part in slavery according to World History. It sounds like your “terror and racism” was taught through the adults in your early life and that shaped your views on slavery, terror and your self worth. Children are born a clean slate and unfortunately racism and hate are passed down through generations. Did you know American slaves weren’t stolen? They were bought by slavers along the African coast, from local tribesmen. Did you know slavery still exist in some parts of that country today?

      • Helton Twila

        Your parents messed you up,sad. You will never open your eyes and learn that not all white people are horrible,just like not all black people are horrible,you were not a slave,I wasn”t a slave owner..get your parents teaching out of your head and think for yourself,geeze and stop with the whiney “I was repressed” bullcrap….Thank God the Jewish people don”t go on and on about what happened to them,and they have more reason then you do.You were terrified when you were a child …give me a dam break.

      • Flossie

        lmao…

      • Nihilist000

        your denial of other people’s experience beyond your incest-ridden, booze-sodden klan family stump and the sheer nazi-like arrogance you display when dismissing their experiences just shows that you’re a piece of shit white trash white supremacist. The only world view that matters it the one you get from the daily stormer and you will never give anyone any respect for their alternative positions, so why should you get any respect you neo-nazi piece of shit? Fucking white trash like you are shit scum racist assholes and you would own slaves if you could or join the police if you didn’t have all those DUI’s, fuckhead. fuck off back to daily stormer or faux news nazi prick.

      • Georgio

        The definition of terrorism is the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. Just like The attack on Iraq.

      • Darnel L. Williams

        Their own country???? How is that?

      • Daniela Gibson

        there were also white slaves they were called indentured servants but they were bought and sold and owned too.

      • Blue

        And you’re going to be ridiculous enough to claim that indentured servants were the same as slavery as practiced in the south before the Civil War? Seriously, you’re going to make me explain the difference to you?

      • Steven Bradley

        Which in actuality was a legal agreement of delayed repayment for product or service of a limited duration. Indentured servitude is nothing like generational slavery.

      • soctal

        Yes, in the 17 and 18th century

      • Edward Barham

        Of course, not a single word that you just said was actually true. And most of this article is not true. Just because this guy read Yankee history doesn’t mean he understands the South. Similarly, just because he was born in Texas doesn’t mean he understands it. I was born in MS, and I would be happy to compare academic prowess with this idiot socialist any time he wants. Lack of understanding on his part DOES NOT translate to ignorance on the part of Southerners. And we understand freedom, which apparently this moron does not! Please move to a Yankee state and quit poisoning the good people of the South with your socialist toxins!

      • Blue

        Not a single word is true, you say, but you don’t even attempt to rebut a single word.

        You understand freedom for you, but not freedom for all. You are a true son of the white supremacist slaveholders, congratulations.

      • Flossie

        Just so you know. Slavery has been abolished in the Americas.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Still in full denial of what the Civil War was about I see. I sure do admire your committment to your psychosis.

      • Flossie

        I know exactly what the Civil War was about.
        Just so you know… the Civil War is over too.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        whew! That’s good. Maybe white, racist, southerners will stop rallying around that silly treason flag then

      • Flossie

        So you think all the White Southerners are racist? Isn’t that a racist remark and aren’t you just as racist to assume if you are white and live in the South, then you must be racist? I know a few Yankees must be racist.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        no, not ALL southerners are idiot, racists who cling to that flag, hence I said “white, racist, southerners”. Get it? Or should I draw you a picture….

      • Flossie

        Yes ….draw me a picture.

      • RealVoiceOfReason

        Just southerners? There were a number of Northern States that were aligned with the Confederacy; Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, etc.. Or are you just spewing what you think you know as history? But I am sure you will blame you lack of education on whitey not giving you a chance at an education.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        For the sake of staying on the topic of this flag, it is predominantly southern states that claim this POS flag represents “heritage” (they leave out the part of heritage of slavery). Any northerner who flies that flag is immediately seen for what they are, a racist. Do you at all wonder why the KKK has adopted that flag as its symbol? Do you wonder why only redneck pieces of trash,, like you, are the only ones who showed up to support that symbol of hatred? There were, and still are bigots everywhere, and they mark themselves with that flag.

        Please tell us again what the Civil War was all about……I can’t wait to hear some more revisionist history from one more redneck teabagging douche….

      • Blue

        Aligned with the Confederacy? States that didn’t secede were “aligned with the Confederacy” in what way?

      • RealVoiceOfReason

        Well, now that the flag is gone, what will be the next target? Treason is the American way, ask the brits. Now, how many Confederate soldiers owned slaves? All of them? I am interested in what your answer is.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        I can see you’ve gotten your feelings hurt for some strange reason. I promise, you will be ok without that symbol of hate.

        And since you think treason is ok, do you think it would be ok for a group of traitorous southerners to attack Fort Bragg today because of the flag?

        I don’t care how many owned slaves, but I’m sure very few. They fought for a white person’s right to own slaves, which there is no dispute.

      • soctal

        How many American soldiers who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan own oil fields?

      • JaNay

        How many American soldiers who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan were Southern? You should google. You can thank them later.

      • Bill-D

        Funny how there are Americans and then there are African-Americans. Now, like Moochel, suddenly they are PROUD to be an American.. Their liberal handlers, and politicians who are going to use them for votes, threw them a bone. They say you can’t buy love, but you can rent a bunch of whores for an few hours. After the voting is over, it will be back to the slums.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        I would wager you know what it’s like to rent a “bunch of whores”, am I right? Does your family know you are into human trafficking?

        You should really lay off of Rush Limbaugh’s talking points for a while and come up with a thought of your own for once. Your drunken rambling makes absolutely zero sense.

      • Bill-D

        Put down the 40 and get off the crack pipe before you burn those big lips. African Studies major? Sad freak.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        racist much? Oh THAT’S right…..racist and proud southerner are the same thing. Got it

      • Bill-D

        No, not a racist. Just a bigot. I prefer White people. Just as you prefer Black people. To hear your hatred and assumptions about White Southerners shows that you too have a preference.
        The Blacks have used “racist” until it really has no more shock value. Especially since Blacks will march and protest for criminals. Failures and losers, all.
        I will say that all the lives and treasure that was wasted in the Civil War, was just that, a waste. A very poor, sad return on investment.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        I’d say most were shocked at what that racist Dylan Roof did. Weren’t you at least a little shocked at what racism will drive nutjobs like you to do? And what do you think that “investment” in the civil war was for? And in your optimum outcome, we would still have slavery since that is all the southern states actaully stated that they wanted to preserve. Is that really what you want? Wait, don’t answer, I already know what people like you think…… And do you think “blacks” only march for criminals? Is that all you see on Fox “News” these days? You lead a very sad existence. you should unplug for a while and go out into the real world and talk to people. It’s not so bad.

      • Bill-D

        I have seen enough Blacks rioting, burning over criminals. The Civil War may have been prevented if there had been no slavery. No Blacks as slaves on the American soil. Can you imagine (no you can not, because you would not be here) an America with no Blacks? Crime would be almost non-existent. The treasure would have trillions of dollars (spend on programs to give the lazy and ill-fit a leg up) and cities that are centers for civilization, and not a haven for the violent trash animals.
        Pull your head out of Al, Jessie, and the Big zero. See the truth and quit with the childish chants and slogans. Get a job, pay taxes and support your own kind. You may even try to raise you own children. For one of the worthless 13%, you flap your gums a lot. Clean up your own back yard..

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        All liquored up on budweiser I see….hahahah… Why wouldn’t I be here again? You have got to be the biggest fucking dumb shit racist I’ve seen in a while. LOL Thanks for proving what everyone thinks about conservatards. You are a prime example of why nobody should ever try to reason with mouth-breathing repubes or ever compromise with them on ANY policy decision. Seriously, do everyone a favor and go play in traffic you POS. smh…I have never seen a dumber post. Thanks.

      • JaNay

        Budweiser is beer….just saying.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        BTW, what time did the klan rally end tonight? Also, you should probably check in with storm front before someone misses you.

      • Bill-D

        Hey Chimp, give it a rest. You are a perfect example of the “modern” Nog. Get some sleep, there will be a protest somewhere tonight for some worthless Black slug. Need to get alert to riot, burn, and run from the po-po.
        How much you have left on the EBT? I’ll bet you are down to licking wrappers today.
        Anyway, have a good day, NOT.
        Eat shite and expire.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        What are you talking about? And what is a “nog”? It looks like you have OD’d on right wing crackery at this point and hatred of Americans has just blinded you. What is it like to live every day with this deep hatred of America and its people?

      • Bill-D

        I have no hatred for my fellow Americans. We work, pay taxes, try to raise our families in peace and security, and are good neighbors. I do not care for the hyphens. They are rude, loud, violent, and trashy. They are NOT Americans. They are the trash that pulls us back and holds us back. They are a race of takers, and will always be. No city where they are a majority has prospered. It is NOT about poverty. It is about the low IQ, violence, laziness, and destruction that is in the Black DNA. Do NOT EVER confuse Americans with the hyphenated trash. I have wasted enough time on you. I will be cutting my grass today; keeping the neighborhood looking nice, and the property values up. You will be on your porch drinking and “yoing” with your homies. Enjoy taking and faking.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        OK, so I’m trying to follow your logic here…. so if you aren’t white, you are automatically stupid, which means if you ARE white you are smart. So what happened to you? How did you end up on the short end of the gene pool? Poor breading? Meth? Fetal alcohol syndrome? What happened to you? And what race are you, because you obviously have a below average IQ. There is zero doubt about that. It’s obvious that you also have more than one significant personality disorders as well. Were you dropped on your head as child? Do you have a couple of unexplained scars on your head, probably on the back? And if you are mowing your own lawn, you obviously don’t have a lot of money, so what happened? Are you lazy, or just poorly educated? You obviously are a member of the working poor (at best), if you actually work at all. Either way, you are a drain on our society and my tax dollars. It must be hard for you to keep your trailer park looking nice. Try to prop up the spare tires in the front yard before you mow….Maybe your place will make the $30K range if you keep it up. (only rednecks….LOL….mowing to keep up property values…LOL) smh

      • Bill-D

        You have nothing, Nog. The ramblings of idiot. Nothing new? Did your ole mammy eat paint chips and pass the brain-dead on to you? Enough. Communicating with trash is always a mistake. Good luck tonight in the ‘hood. Hope you get mugged. Nogs shoot each other all the time. Hope one of your bros puts you down.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        try not to shoot up a school in the future and please stop raping your sister you stupid fucking hayseed. Hope you got your lawn mowed and didn’t run over your own feet. You may need those three toes later you inbred. And get a better job please. At least since you are white you know you should have a better opportunity than someone of another race, but somehow you still have a shitty job….must suck to be you knowing that you are the dumbest person in your trailer park. Don’t worry, you are being judged by those of us who have money. You are white trash. Period. And you shout it with every move you make. Taker.

      • Bill-D

        You Black POS. Enough of you. I’ll bet Father’s Day for you is a very confusing. Not real sure which of the many who tapped your ragged a (ssed) mammy is your old man. Now, its bad enough that my taxes go to support you, your mammy and her 17 baby daddies, and your whole loser family, but I will not waste anymore time with you. You are truly a waste; low IQ and passed through the system.
        You can’t live where I live. They won’t let you in, Shite skin. Stay in that cesspool nest where your kind belongs.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        HAHAHAA……you repubes are all the same. Don’t worry, I wouldn’t live in a redneck trailer park in some POS hick town. Make sure to get a head start on tomorrow’s hangover. You will be glad you did.

      • Bill-D

        Sucks to be you. Glad I’m not Black :)
        Get back on that broom, Rastus, you missed a spot.

      • JaNay

        This comment just makes you sound ignorant.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        really…..how do you figure. Are you reading the dipshit posts I am replying to? If not, stfu

      • JaNay

        It’s a public forum, anyone can read your dipshit posts.
        If you don’t like it…..stfu.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        ok, so I see that you side with racists, so go fuck your ugly self with a baseball bat you kunt. And keep it real while you are it.

      • JaNay

        ooooooo…. the big dum a$$ thing can talk……
        Ask your mommy if she’s finished with your bat, but remember to wipe off before you use it……..you lose troll…Bye.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        buh bye

      • JaNay

        Your comment regarding “a bunch of whores” WAS ignorant and that certainly doesn’t make me a racist to call you out you POS Troll.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        you didn’t read what I replied to. Mr Flossie,, your friend was the person referring to a bunch of whores, which is why I mentioned that in the first place. Try to keep up if you are going to dig into this. You are being ignorant for not underrstanding the context of my post. smh

      • JaNay

        Creation, I read what you replied to. This is a public news forum and posters often reply to comments of other posters. It doesn’t mean they are friends or Rush Limbaugh advocates, which is one of your overused expressions. Discuss the topic and stop with all the ignorant rants at people who don’t agree with you, because it does make you look like you are covering up for a lack of knowledge on the topic.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        hahahahaha….ok, sure…. The topic has been discussed. Sorry that you are late to the party. This horse is has been beaten to death.

      • soctal

        Its amazing that fools can wave seditious flags around and question if somebody else is “PROUD to be an American”. Such a bunch of crazy goofy hypocrites.

      • Flossie

        Perhaps you should check the stats on how many “Southerners” volunteer in the armed forces to protect you, your country and your freedoms. You will quickly realize how asinine your “treason” statements sound.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        perhaps you should check if I volunteered to protect YOUR freedoms before you make an asinine comment like that. FYI, I’m retired Army and my wife is active duty. Go play in traffic kid.

      • Flossie

        Maybe in the Afghan Army.
        No current or retired military would ever talk about America or Americans such as you have in your previous comments.
        TRY AGAIN.
        Not buying it.
        You are just as shady as the rest of your alias screen name hooligans.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        I don’t give two shits if you buy anything because you are an un-Amercian piece of trash. Your hatred of Americans consumes you. You are welcome for what myself and my family have given you, you racist piece of shit.

      • Flossie

        Are you mad bro?
        One can always tell when the truth nerve gets struck.
        Please show me where I spoke of hatred for America or Americans.
        I won’t hold my breath.

        You and your family didn’t give me sheet.
        I don’t sit around whining about what the government is gonna give me, I earned it myself.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        no really, clowns like you crack me up. It’s sad, just how stupid our society has become, but you are a classic example. You have earned nothing. You are clearly an online college student who hasn’t earned a thing in her life. It’s sad, but you are the type of person we as a country have to pay for later.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        anyway, care to address your serious lack of understanding on who has served this country and who hasn’t? You, obviously are just a taker. Go away and earn something for once in your pathetic life.

      • Flossie

        lol…..you just proved my point.
        You never served this country.
        People who serve this country would never speak like you do, with a total lack of respect for others.
        It’s okay ….. perfectly normal for impostors to lash out when busted.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        ? You make no sense. I have no respect for traitors to this country. And that is exactly what you are.

      • Flossie

        What country are you from?

      • RealVoiceOfReason

        And you only see your issues, not anyone else’s. It is a time for revenge isn’t it? It’s ok, you don’t have to say it, but we all know it.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        ok, what is YOUR issue? What are you seeking revenge for again?

      • Blue

        Based on this post, your nickname is very poorly chosen.

      • Flossie

        So true.

      • soctal

        Quit your goofy rattling and post some links for your claims that have some degree of credibility.

      • JaNay

        Amen.

      • RealVoiceOfReason

        Slavery was part of every culture in the world since the beginning of time and of every color. This is were African Americans are self absorbed as no one, in their minds, has ever suffered as they have. It isn’t about moving forward. This is a time for revenge in many of their minds.

      • Blue

        This seems to be the latest talking point-that other places in the world had slavery, too. Of course, to compare ancient Egypt to America in 1861 is ridiculous, an absolute fig leaf of an argument, wrong on so many levels.

        The suffering of black Americans goes well beyond slavery. After slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, segregation, redlining, stop-and-frisk…slavery was only the beginning. To know that is to be aware. For you to call it self-absorbed makes me wonder if you’re a bit narcissistic, and the harping on revenge seems like projection.

      • soctal

        Who are you talking to? I have seen this argument time and again, It makes a claim on the mindset of African Americans that I have yet to see in a real study or survey, its just widely proclaimed by racist bigots as an accusation, as a diversion. It doesnt work.

      • Flossie

        Do you realize the North held slaves too?

      • Blue

        Yes, at one time many states held slaves, and then some of them stopped. Others went to war so that they could continue to have slaves.

      • Flossie

        lame…………”some of them stopped”… so it’s okay now. Really?

      • Blue

        So it’s better to keep doing evil than to do evil and then repent? Really?

      • Flossie

        There are no living slaves or slave owners in America today.

      • Blue

        And yet there’s still institutional racism, thus our discussion.

      • Flossie

        That term was first introduced by “Black Power Activists” during the civil rights era.
        The highly contested concept has re-emerged today in the political arena whenever an excuse is needed to replace personal accountability.
        Institutional racism is unequal access to goods, services, and opportunities in society due to one’s race.

        Affirmative action protects that right.

      • Blue

        I’m glad to see you read the Wikipedia article on institutional racism, but you need to get past the first paragraph.

        Look down at what our government did to black citizens in the later part of the article.

        Theft of labor by slave owners, laws that forced free blacks to work as sharecroppers, Jim Crow laws, redlining, segregation-those actions robbed black Americans of wealth.

        Now check this out:

        http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/09/study-black-man-and-white-felon-same-chances-for-hire/

        I’ve got more, lots more, but digest that first.

      • JaNay

        Not trying to be ugly or but in – but it is in the past and black America needs to get over it. There is nothing stopping them now.
        A lot of White Americans have no wealth – who robbed them?

      • Blue

        Except it’s not in the past. It’s in the present. Not only is institutional racism still “stopping” black people, that past racism robbed their forebears of wealth and thus robbed them.

        There was not a legal system set up to enslave white people, no legal system to prevent them from working, or eating, or living in certain areas, no government programs like this:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

        You’re asking why there wasn’t an equal outcome for all. I’m pointing out that black Americans lacked equal opportunity. Your question is skewed.

      • JaNay

        My statement was that “slavery is in the past”.
        Yes… America has issues with racism and those issues need to be addressed. The first step is to stop teaching it to our children and stop pushing the America owes black people agenda.
        The government is not responsible for our support, education, housing, education, cell phones, happiness, etc.
        We are responsible for ourselves.
        If you can’t feed your children …. don’t have them concept.

        If you sell drugs, kill people, commit robbery…. you will go to Jail.
        It’s not because you are black…. it’s because you broke the law.

      • Flossie

        I read many articles regarding institutional racism, including, but not limited to Wikipedia. There are a lot of definitions, but all are basically the same.

        Our original discussion was racism and you blaming the “rich white man” for slavery in America. When you backed yourself into a corner by refusing to acknowledge any collateral responsibility, you turned to institutional racism.

        You are not alone in confusing racism with institutional racism.

        Institutional Racism involves polices, practices, and procedures of “institutions” that have a negative effect on minorities accessing goods, services, and opportunities.
        Racism (systemic) is an individual value system in society that supports discrimination.

        These may be current issues that need to be discussed, however, they have nothing to do with sharecropping, stolen black wealth, etc.
        Slavery was abolished and nobody owes anyone anything.

      • Blue

        You said: I read many articles regarding institutional racism, including, but not limited to Wikipedia. There are a lot of definitions, but all are basically the same.

        Me: You skimmed them for the parts you liked, and ignored the parts I pointed out to you.

        You said: Our original discussion was racism and you blaming the “rich white man” for slavery in America. When you backed yourself into a corner by refusing to acknowledge any collateral responsibility, you turned to institutional racism.

        Me: This makes no sense. You’re denying that rich white men created slavery in America and then benefited from it? This is why I told you that you didn’t need to defend them, they are dead. They do not care.

        Institutional racism has been the topic from the beginning. This is why I keep telling you that your recitations of factoids are meaningless trivia. Get it now?

        I saved the funniest part for last: You claim I wouldn’t claim collateral responsibility. What does that even mean?

        You said: You are not alone in confusing racism with institutional racism.

        Institutional Racism involves polices, practices, and procedures of “institutions” that have a negative effect on minorities accessing goods, services, and opportunities.
        Racism (systemic) is an individual value system in society that supports discrimination.

        Me: Except I didn’t confuse the two.

        You said: “These may be current issues that need to be discussed, however, they have nothing to do with sharecropping, stolen black wealth, etc.
        Slavery was abolished and nobody owes anyone anything.”

        Me: I haven’t addressed what anybody owes anybody, actually. Must of this response seems to be against some imaginary foe you’re having an argument with instead of what I have actually said.

        We can talk about what might or might not be owed if you could ever move away from repeating trivia, defending the long dead for their indefensible acts, and setting up straw men.

      • Flossie

        Let me get this straight – Are you saying I am suppose to read what you tell me to read and change my opinion to think like you?
        It doesn’t work like that.
        I ask you for links to the facts you kept talking about. You know….the facts about “rich white men”.

        I didn’t deny anything. I didn’t defend slavery or slave owners and I reminded you all slave owners and slaves were deceased.

        Slavery has been the topic from the beginning and of course your hatred for Rich White men, Southerners and your claim of terrorism for slaves in the South.

        Collateral responsibility is your argument that ONLY rich white men are to blame for slavery in America. You said black slave owners, slavers and the Africans who sold slaves were NOT to blame.

        Institutional Racism/Racism (systemic) : You did seem to confuse the two in your comments. That is my opinion.

        You have said multiple times that black Americans’ wages and wealth were stolen. You have also said multiple times America owes them for their stolen wealth.

        If you think you are misunderstood, then say what you are trying to say and quit tap dancing around it.

        The floor is all yours……clear up any misunderstandings.

      • Blue

        You said: Let me get this straight – Are you saying I am suppose to read what you tell me to read and change my opinion to think like you?
        It doesn’t work like that.

        Me: You’re supposed to be aware of facts and logic, at least.

        You said: I ask you for links to the facts you kept talking about. You know….the facts about “rich white men”.

        Me: You mean you want me to prove that slavery was promoted by rich white men? Seriously?

        I would honestly think that was something even you would accept. What is your doubt here? Which part of that needs verification? Rich, white, or men? That slavery was desired by the rich white men of the South who went to war over it, you doubt this and want it verified?

        You said: I didn’t deny anything. I didn’t defend slavery or slave owners and I reminded you all slave owners and slaves were deceased.

        You keep defending them by trying to deflect blame on African tribal leaders, or you deflecting the issue to racism in the north. You do this over and over, and then you demand that black people get over something that you’re clearly not reconciled to.

        The impacts of slavery are felt today. In order to justify chattel slavery, it was necessary to promote the concept of white supremacy. We see the effects of that today.

        You said: Slavery has been the topic from the beginning and of course your hatred for Rich White men, Southerners and your claim of terrorism for slaves in the South.

        Me: And once again, you’re putting words in my mouth.

        I don’t hate slaveholders, they are dead. I just don’t defend them. They don’t need hate and they don’t need defending.

        I don’t hate rich white men, or Southerners, either.

        You won’t find me expressing anything like hatred for slaveholders or Southerners in a single post.

        As for my claim of terrorism for slaves in the south, that is not debatable. If someone whips you when you don’t follow orders, if they can buy and sell your children for any reason, if they can have sex with your child or wife, if you cannot leave your owner without a letter of permission, if your owner can send you to someone to be whipped, if you can be beaten for reading a book or going to church, that is living under a terrorist state.

        You said: Collateral responsibility is your argument that ONLY rich white men are to blame for slavery in America. You said black slave owners, slavers and the Africans who sold slaves were NOT to blame.

        Me: You lie like a rug. I did not say that.

        You: Institutional Racism/Racism (systemic) : You did seem to confuse the two in your comments. That is my opinion.

        Me: At least this comment is plausible.

        You said: You have said multiple times that black Americans’ wages and wealth were stolen.

        Me: And you cannot argue against that and claim to be rational.

        You said: You have also said multiple times America owes them for their stolen wealth.

        Me: I have said that America owes them for their stolen wealth? No, I haven’t.

        You said: If you think you are misunderstood, then say what you are trying to say and quit tap dancing around it.

        The floor is all yours……clear up any misunderstandings

        Me: Clear up misunderstandings? That’s not possible. You invent words and put them in my mouth, set up straw men, defend the indefensible and then claim that you aren’t, and you won’t accept an excellent source simply because you don’t like the findings. You WANT to misunderstand, or you aren’t capable of understanding.

      • Flossie

        I am not going to repeat all your uncredible ramblings, but I can say this.

        My comments reflect that I am aware of facts and logic and I post links to back it up.

        You stated the following was fact:
        “The system of slavery was created by rich white men who invented white supremacy to justify it.”
        and then provided links to information on “Black Codes” which have nothing to do with your comment.

        “that slavery was promoted by rich white men”
        (was NOT your original comment)

        -Slavery being “created” is much different than “promoted”.-
        You keep changing the version of what you are saying when you can’t back it up. Not Credible and dishonest.

        I never defended slavery or slave owners.
        No one living today was ever a slave or slave owner.
        It’s called reality.

        I never promoted White Supremacy.
        A nut job comes along and shoots up a church.
        It is what it is.
        I remember seeing groups of black teens playing the knock out game in NY (attacking whites only).
        Racism works BOTH ways.

        You did say slavery in the South was terrorism and slave owners were terrorists.
        Africa was selling slaves to slavers 40 years before America was even discovered, but you feel like no one is responsible but the rich white men in the South. I disagree.

        It may be an ugly fact, but slaves are bought and sold for their labor so there are no wages; slaves had no wealth and if they did it was stolen in Africa.
        There are a lot of poor white people… who stole their wealth?

        Please show:
        1. what words I invented.
        2. where I created straw men.
        3. defended slavery.
        4. your sources. (I must have missed them)

      • Blue

        I have told you about each time that you put words in my mouth, that you set up straw men, that you defended slavery, and I’ve asked you to clarify what exactly you wanted me to back up for sources. You can’t ask me to point it out each time and also ask you to say it again to you now.

        In this current post, you misquote me, apparently out of sheer ignorance, but possibly out of sheer cussedness.

        For example:

        You said: You did say slavery in the South was terrorism and slave owners were terrorists.

        No, I said that slavery was defended by a system of terrorism. Do you do this on purpose or can you just not read?

        You said: Africa was selling slaves to slavers 40 years before America was even discovered,

        Me: What.The.Hell. are you talking about? 40 years before America was discovered? Where is this from? What are you talking about?

        You said: but you feel like no one is responsible but the rich white men in the South. I disagree.

        Again, you lie like a rug. You have to know that I did not say that and that you are lying.

        You bizarrely claim that my using the word “created” in one post and “promoted” in another is some sort of a dodge. Both can be true. What is wrong with you that you do not understand this?

        The fact that there were no wages proves that the labor was stolen. Again, you are not applying basic reasoning skills and rely on some ridiculous legalistic explanation to argue against what is inarguable. Black people were cheated of the fruits of their labor.

        Both black people and white people can be racist, but white people hold the majority of all power in this nation.That is the point that is sailing over your head.

        I provided you a link to the Black Codes at a time when it did back up what I was saying. I’m sorry that you did not grasp how it applied. You keep demanding sources but you avoid explaining what it is that you want backed up, which tells me that you know you’re being ridiculous.

        Try to be worth my time. At least try.

      • Flossie

        Typical ….you make all these broad claims and statements with no content to back them up.

        No. you have not told me of any specific time that I put words in your mouth and you can’t, because I cut and paste your statements and those are your words.

        Straw men are imaginary and I don’t talk about imaginary things.
        Again, I never and DO NOT defend slavery.

        Your typical response is to make all these open statements so you don’t have to back up what you say. You do it to everyone on the forum. so I don’t take it personal.

        I ask ONE time for ONE link to verify your claim that the following statement was FACT (if you can’t prove it is fact – then it’s your personal opinion and a misrepresentation to say it is fact).
        Your statement word for word (because I cut and pasted):

        “The system of slavery was created by rich white men who invented white supremacy to justify it.”

        A cut and pasted statement cannot be “misquoted”.
        (it is your sheer ignorance to pretend you didn’t say it)
        You said slavery was terrorism… even another poster suggested you use another word.
        If you want to change your statement then do so, but don’t act like you never said it. When I misstate something, I own it. It’s not a crime to make a mistake.

        Created and promoted are two different words with two different meanings. You did not simply use them in two different post.
        You used the word “created” and when I called you out on it – you claimed to have used the word “promoted”.
        Again, own it.

        Again… as ugly as it is … a slave is owned and they do not receive wages. Therefore, you cannot steal something that is not there.
        You keep referring myself and other posters to articles by the snake charmer Ta-Nehisi Coates (who writes of slaves’ wage theft and reparations). He is a renowned racist raised with a Black Panther father.
        I can only assume your views are in line with his, but just so we don’t get it twisted, no one puts words in your mouth and nothing flies over anyone’s head. You can clear this up by advising if this is an accurate assumption? Do you agree with views of Ta-Nehisi Coates?

        You made the statement: “Both black people and white people can be racist, but white people hold the majority of all power in this nation”.
        Is this a problem for you?

        I don’t need links to “Black Codes” that I mentioned to you.
        I requested links to the statements you made as “facts” regarding the basis for the creation of “white supremacy”.

      • Flossie

        It was a system promoted by many, including Africans where slavery still exist today in some areas. The reality – it’s a system that doesn’t exist today. Get over it.

      • Blue

        But the repercussions of it do. That’s just reality.

      • Flossie

        As an excuse for failure. That’s just reality.

      • Blue

        Well, no.

        That events have repercussions is observable reality. Even you can’t pretend otherwise.

        That someone is us using an event to make excuses is an opinion.

        I gave you the link to the study showing that white ex-convicts were more likely to get a call back for a job interview than black men with no criminal record. I was hoping you’d read it.

      • Flossie

        I prefer unbiased articles, studies and opinions.

      • Blue

        Great, then you’ll love this one.

      • Flossie

        Why so eager to share links of ex-cons when you still haven’t shared links of “your facts” you are trying to ignore.
        Deflection at it’s finest.

      • Blue

        That shoe would be on your foot.

      • Flossie

        When a poster declares something to be “a fact” and can’t post the link to back it up, it’s BS and you lose all credibility.
        You Lose.

      • Blue

        When a poster demands that something be proven and can’t even begin to explain what it is that she wants to be proven, she’s spinning.

      • Anthony Apimpnamedbizmark Henr

        The flag represents those who had slaves and the ignorant thwats who were convinced that freed slaves would take their jobs, their women and their social standing… that makes them all racist and oppressive.

      • Rebe Lee

        The flag represents when the South seceded and Lincoln, who was asked why he wouldn’t just let the South go quietly, stated he couldn’t because, who, then, would pay for the Gov’t?…So the war began and the South fought back. Lincoln, and the Congress, did not declare the war to be about slavery until a year in when support started waning. If the war had not happened the South still would have freed the slaves before the North (‘still,’ as in, that is actually what happened), but the North would rightfully, and correctly, be the ones seen as the racists who clung on to slavery. But the North won, so they got to whitewash what really happened. Fact is, the South started freeing slaves and started integration in 1859 after making note of the Russians freeing their servants. General Lee, the one that flag is most associated with, was anti-slavery and freed the slaves he inherited. Only 4.8% of Southerners owned slaves. 13,000 of those slave owners were free blacks. 3000 of the men who fought in the war FOR the South were black. Overall, only 1.5% of white Americans, nationwide, owned slaves. The North ONLY owned less because of industrialization. That doesn’t mean they weren’t fond of slavery. No official Confederate flag, and no unofficial battle flag of the Confederacy, such as this one, was ever flown on a ship transporting slaves. In fact, no Confederate ship transported slaves. That honor goes to the North. The Emancipation Proclamation was to free slaves in the SOUTH only. It did NOT apply to the North, and, in fact, the last of Northern slaves were not freed until 1901, including yankee Gen.Grant’s slaves, among most of the other yankee Generals. And if that isn’t all enough, President Lincoln, Mr.Sympathizer with the slaves, didn’t want free blacks roaming around here..He was in the process of arranging to ship their newly freed asses to Central America, which didn’t end slavery till well after the US did. Only thing that stopped his plan in it’s tracks- his assassination.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        LOL…..probably one of the funniest and poorly worded versions of revisionist history I’ve seen today. Congrats!

      • Rebe Lee

        Poorly worded? Said by the one with bad grammar. Plenty of documentation exists to back each of my statements. Accept it, don’t, I really don’t care.

      • Friode28

        When Lincoln “freed the slaves,” he only freed those in the Southern controlled areas.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        would you say that the southerners treated those former slaves as equals, and have since then?

      • Flossie

        Would you say the northerners treated their former slaves as equals, and have since then?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        It’s a pretty clear that the northern states were better a place for African Americans than the southern states for the better part of a Century and a half, but nobody has been perfect. Perfection is not attainable when trying to remedy those attrocities. At least the northern states tried, which is something the south was unwilling to do, which is why the north kicked your asses.

        If the north was worse, which I’m sure you will contend, why did the southern slaves flee to the north and why wasn’t there an exodus of northern slaves running to the south? Did the liberal media brainwash them? LOL

      • Flossie

        You have no idea what you are talking about.
        Study the history of the Civil War and then you can get into the conversation.

      • Rebe Lee

        Thank you Flossie, my head was aching when the one asked for sources, like really? What the hell are they teaching kids in school these days, this is basic knowledge.

        Creeayshun- Southern slaves going North were freed. But slaves already in the North were not freed, no matter if they stayed put or fled South, so there was no point to them fleeing.

        Here is what a historian said-

        To dismiss the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of hate is to surrender to willful historical ignorance. To many, that flag signaled progress. The first Jew was elected to national office under that banner, as was the first Roman Catholic. For the first time, American Indians were seated in Congress. And while slavery remained legal in the United States for the duration of the war, a number of prominent Confederates freed their slaves…and adopted a Constitution that banned any further importation of slaves from Africa.

        I’ll add to his statement that in 1868, the first black man was elected to office, as mayor, in Louisiana. 20 years before any state outside the South would elect a black man, in 1888 in California. It’s not until 1966 that the North would finally elect a black gentleman, in Ohio.

        Mississippi was the first state to seat a black Senator, in 1870. The North would not elect their first black gentlemen to the Senate until 1967 in Massachusetts. It wasn’t until 1993 that the Democratic party finally elected their first to Senate, a woman in Illinois. Between 1870 and 1897, the South elected 27 black Congressmen before the North finally elected their first in 1929, in Illinois.

      • Flossie

        You were correct and someone asking for sources of basic American history was just stupid.

      • Blue

        Yes, Mississippi seated a black Senator, and Mississippi and the rest of the South started a campaign of voting rights suppression as a result. Big picture.

      • Rebe Lee

        Correction- The wealthy Democrats started a campaign. Not “the rest of” the South. Republicans remained against it the campaign, and the poor didn’t really participate nor care. And their campaign failed, obviously. Or else blacks wouldn’t have continued to win despite the campaign.

      • Blue

        On what planet? On what planet did the poor not care? Did black people continue to win office? Did the campaign to keep black people from voting fail? WTH are you talking about?

        White people got upset at black people getting to vote. For a black person to vote was to take their lives in their hands, up until the Voting Rights Act.

      • Rebe Lee

        1868 (exact date not given)
        1868 (exact date not given)
        1869 (exact date not given)
        23 February 1870
        May 1870
        12 December 1870
        16 January 1871
        4 March 1871
        4 March 1871
        4 March 1871
        3 March 1873
        4 March 1873
        4 March 1873
        4 March 1873
        4 March 1873
        4 March 1875
        4 March 1875
        4 March 1875
        4 March 1875
        4 March 1875
        4 March 1875
        4 March 1877
        29 April 1882
        18 July 1882
        4 March 1883
        18 March 1884
        4 March 1889
        23 September 1890
        24 September 1890
        4 March 1893
        4 June 1896
        4 March 1897

        Goes on to state over 1500 blacks held office between 1865 and 1901 (when the North finally ended their slavery). The above is a partial list for the South only. These were the most notable Southern office positions held, primarily for Congress and the Senate and is fairly spread out throughout the entire period.

      • Blue

        I have no idea of your source for black office holders.

        I do know that black people were murdered over voting, and that the fear of white people was that black officer holders would treat them like they’d been treated.

        Here’s one for you about voter suppression tactics.

        http://www.umich.edu/~lawrace/disenfranchise1.htm

      • Rebe Lee

        And again..I didn’t claim there was no racism. Stop acting like I did. My point is the North was just as racist, if not moreso and that the war was over money not race, stop acting like I said something different from that.
        And you can google a list of black Congress members and Senators very easily. As well as other black office holders. Info doesn’t need to be sourced if it’s stupid easy to google it.

      • Blue

        Since the South held black people and their descendants in slavery in perpetuity, and used terrorism to enfore that slavery, I feel perfectly confident in saying that the South was MORE racist. Which is not the same as saying that the North wasn’t racist.

        Yes, you need to provide sources for your claims. Several folks are going to slavery apologetic sites and gathering info. That’s ONE of the reasons you should provide a source.

      • Rebe Lee

        wiki fucking pedia. They provide a very clinically arranged list (as in hate-mongering has nothing to do with it, it’s just a fact based list). 2 seconds googling it and you would have found the same shit I did. So NO I don’t need to source something like that.

        And since the NORTH also held black people and their descendant in slavery in perpetuity, and used terrorisn to enforce that slavery, even beyond the war until 1901, and the NORTH’s Emancipation Proclaimation ONLY applied to the South so the NORTH could continue on their slavery up there, then going by your own arguement, I feel perfectly confident in saying the North was MORE racist.

      • Blue

        You are mistaken. YOU need to source YOUR shit. Always. Getting angry won’t change that simple expectation.

        You keep saying “the North” had slaves, but slavery was outlawed in “the North” by the time of the Civil War. So are you speaking of Kentucky and Missouri, “slave” states that did not secede? A yes or no question.

      • Rebe Lee

        You are actually claiming slavery ended in the North first. Wow…….I’m done done done. troll.

      • Blue

        You are actually dodging like a sonofabitch. Too bad, I’d love to see your sources for this revisionist history.

      • Blue

        I’m looking at the original post, and I don’t see “Wikipedia”. Later you finally said “Wikifuckingpedia” with no link.

        I am asking again if you mean Kentucky and Missouri when you claim that slavery ended later in the North. Yes or no. Then we can go on from there.

      • Blue

        And you keep saying it didn’t, but you’re quite coy about it, which tells me even you know your claim is some Grade A bullshit.

        Re the list of black people holding office: You posted some years, no offices, no names. You initially did not give a source, then later you got pissed off and said Wikepedia, still no link. Again, it’s your job to back up a claim. Not the rest of the world’s.

      • John Doe

        ALL THE DAMN DEMOCRATS,NEED TO GO TO AFRICA WITH THE NEGRO,S

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        again…..hahahahah….this is great comedy you’ve got coming out right now. Keep it up! LOL

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        And just an FYI, the civil war is over, loooong ago. Get over it. LOL Are you really still fighting it?

      • Flossie

        Dipshitsky.

      • John Doe

        THAY CAN STILL GO BACK TO AFRICA,WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER BROUGHT THEM OVER HERE TO START WITH,WE ONLY WANTED SOME GOOD FARM EQUIPMENT,

      • Friode28

        I wonder if Yankees have ever treated any minority as equals.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        WTH?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Are you familiar with the ‘underground railroad’? Do you have any concept of where ‘it’ started vs where it ended? And do you have a clue why? You can thank the ancestors of us ‘Yankees’ because we and they never abandoned the United States of America like the treasonous southerners did.

        I wonder if southerners know just how stupid they are, or if they only compare themselves to other southerners….

      • Friode28

        Racist much?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        LOL….OK,, so go ahead and look up what the underground railroand was. smh

      • Friode28

        Without help from some Southerners, the Underground Railroad would not have worked. So then as now, all Southerners were not in support of slavery. You say all Southerners are in the racist category for what they think the Stars and Bars stand for. It is a national problem and to not see it as that is absurd. Some of the worst atrocities happened in the non racist North, like mass lynchings in Minnesota. Why are riots not exclusive to the Southern States? The South elected representatives long before the North and still do. If the problem was so easy it would be gone by now.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        you are right, there were and are bad northerners and some decent southerners, but those decent southerners aren’t the same people draping that rebel flag all over every vehicle they own and carrying it around today.

        BTW, Minnesota isn’t proud of that time in their history, unlike the southern states. That is the problem. Do you understand the difference here or am I talking to a wall.

        As someone who has lived all over the US, including the south, and abroad for the past 20 or more years on active duty, I still don’t see what ‘southern pride’ is or the need to worship that silly flag. I lived in KY and GA for 6 years and have visited every state in this country except AK. Southern pride is bullshit and that flag which is the topic of conversation is bullshit and unnecessary unless it is used to point out atrocities. It’s place is in a museum to teach children about the bad times in our history and the things we did wrong as a nation.

        You are right, there is no easy solution to this, but that flag IS part of the problem and moving on from it IS part of the solution.

      • Flossie

        I always wondered why people retire and move North?…..oh wait…

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        So warm weather and depressed housing market is what the treason flag stands for? In the voice of the most interesting man in the world, “I don’t always lose a argument, but when I do, I change the subject.”

      • Flossie

        You use insults to cover up your ignorance and you think it is working.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Are you still going through the mental gymnatiscs of pretending the Civil War wasn’t about slavery?

      • Flossie

        Lincoln himself said it wasn’t.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        To quote the POS American politician from Georgia and Vice President of the Confederate States of America during the American Civil War, Alexander H. Stephens, the war was about slavery:

        “Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.”

        I’ll take his word for it, not yours.

      • Flossie

        You are one big contradiction …. you been whining all over this forum about the “treasonous, lying, loser, POS Southerners” AND now you want to take a Southerner’s word on why the war started….bahahaha.

        What’s wrong with the word of your man, Lincoln?
        As usual you just quote and rely on the one who suits your version of events.

        A quote from YOUR man Lincoln (you know …. the one who declared the war):

        Lincoln wrote to Horace Greeley on August 22, 1862: “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it . . .”

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        You were saying this wasn’t about slavery, well Alexander Stephens disagreed with you. Again, I will take his words at face value.

        More from the VP of the confederate states in his cornerstone speech: “They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails.”

        “With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place.”

        This is what you are defending. This is why that war was fought in the eyes of southerners.

      • Flossie

        You need to research these things before you cut and paste.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        I will take Alexander Stephens’ words at face value. No matter how you twist yourself up as a southerner to make yourself feel better, his words are clear and unambiguous.

      • Flossie

        Stephens was born into a time in history wherein slavery was legal and a normal way of life.
        As much as that may be wrong today; it was normal life at that time.

        We can’t change it.
        If that was an option, I am sure the holocaust would be high on the list.

        It is impossible to change history, which is what so many are trying to do today. Live in today and respect history for what it was and what we learned from it.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        OK, so you finally admit the Civil War was about slavery. Was it really that hard? LOL… and way to throw in a holocaust reference….go right back to the right wing playbook even if it makes no sense. Nice!

      • Flossie

        No it wasn’t about slavery. Mr. Stephens did not declare war, Lincoln did.
        If history could be changed, the holocaust would be high on my list. No hidden meaning.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        LOL….listen to yourself here…..LOL You are cracking me up.

      • John Doe

        DONT SPEW YOUR NEED TO RUN DOWN THE CONFEDERATE FLAG,BECAUSE YOU WANT OR ARE A NEGRO,GET YOU SOME WATERMELON & SHUT THE FUCQ UP YOU ASSHOLE

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Well, I’m glad to see you are up front with your lack of IQ and racism. Thank you for verifying what we all think the GOP consists of, people just like you. Idiot.

      • Flossie

        Look y’all ….a “rude” and “know it all” Yankee who thinks he is special.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        y’all? Is English your first language?

      • Flossie

        Southern sarcasm.

      • Jenkem Jones

        No, but they do treat Muslim immigrants as their new ‘betters’.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        stormfront misses you

      • John Doe

        HELL YES,THOSE JUNGLE BUNNY,S IS STILL GETTING TREATED BETTER,THAN THAY DESERVE

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        ….

      • Jenkem Jones

        Actually he freed no one. The Union forces didn’t free anyone in the areas in their control and the Emancipation Proclamation was for territory he felt was in ‘rebellion’. It was intended to cause a slave rebellion that never happened.

      • John Doe

        LINCOLN got what HE DESERVED

      • Flossie

        What part of it is incorrect? or are you just talking out your arse as usual with no real substance to offer.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        The Confederate flag is directly tied to the Confederate cause, and the Confederate cause was white supremacy. Period. Those young men who fought and died were fighting for a treasonous group of states who wanted to continue the proud tradition of white supremacy. Fly the US flag and be proud for once.

      • Flossie

        The flag in question is not “The Confederate Flag”.
        If you are going to discuss a topic, at least try and know the basics.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        hahaha….yeah sure…hahaha

      • Flossie

        troll.

      • Blue

        100 % correct. “They always find a working boy to do the fighting” Elvis Costello. Whatever the beliefs and motivations of the average soldier, those who wanted the war were wealthy slave owners.

      • Flossie

        100% wrong. The wealthy Northern slave owners wanted the war to force the South to continue funding their government.

      • Blue

        The South seceded, Flossie. They knew secession meant war.

        Are you aware that there were slave owning and non-slave owning states in the United States at the time? You keep saying “Northern slave owners” like you think that people in New Hampshire and Pennsylvania owned slaves.

      • Flossie

        Sorry… I meant to write “Wealthy Northerners” – I stand corrected.
        I do know the union tried to admit an equal balance of “free states and slave states” to keep a balance.

      • Blue

        But “wealthy Northerners” didn’t own slaves either, so you haven’t corrected your statement. Kentucky and Missouri were “slave states”. Slavery was declared illegal in most Northern states at by the time of the Civil War.

      • Flossie

        Thanks to a loophole, about a million individuals were still legally slaves after the EP (there were about four million slaves in captivity at the time; it declared three million of them free). The loophole was that the proclamation only applied to states and territories “in rebellion against the United States.” In short, if you were a slave in Delaware, Kentucky or even the recently-captured Confederate territories of New Orleans or Tennessee … sorry, but your freedom-princess was in another castle. According to you a slave owner is a slave owner…..
        Before the Civil war areas in the North had higher rates of slaveholding than the South: A comparison of 1703 tax records shows that 3% of taxpayers in Boston were slaveholders, 7% of those in Philadelphia, and 42% of those in New York City.

      • Blue

        When you copy and paste, you need to give a link.

      • Flossie

        Same to you.

      • Blue

        I do.

        You don’t.

      • Flossie

        why?

      • Blue

        It makes you a plagarist. I highlighted a phrase from each of your paragraphs above. The first paragraph is word for word plagarized.

        Here’s your source.

        http://www.cracked.com/article_19223_6-civil-war-myths-everyone-believes-that-are-total-b.s..html

        Your second paragraph is found in the comments here:

        http://www.winknews.com/2015/06/24/controversy-continues-over-robert-e-lee-portrait/

        Apparently the only sentence that is yours is this:

        According to you a slave owner is a slave owner…..

        Those cut and pastes are way too long to be called anything other than plagarism.

      • Blue

        The beginning of this post is cut and pasted from Cracked.

        http://www.cracked.com/article_19223_6-civil-war-myths-everyone-believes-that-are-total-b.s..html

        I recognized the wording from my reading the day before, when I was trying to figure out where Rebe Lee was getting her “slavery lasted longer in the North than the South” claim that she refuses to explain, elaborate on, or in any way prove.

        Beginning with “Before the Civil War” is cut and pasted from this link:

        http://www.ushistory.org/presidentshouse/history/slavery-gw-oney.htm

        You apparently think that this cut and paste rebuts this remark of mine:

        “Whatever the beliefs and motivations of the average soldier, those who wanted the war were wealthy slave owners.”

        And of course, citing stats from 1703 doesn’t even address the topic let alone prove the claim.

        I guess the statement “According to you, a slave owner is a slave owner” is yours, but I never said anything like that. I can’t even tell what that means.

      • Flossie

        Are you aware that anyone can look this up, just like you.
        I am not trying to hide anything, if I misstated or misrepresented …..it would be easy enough to check.

        http://www.cracked.com/article
        I have never been one to provide an endless display of links, because it is SO EASY to look it up yourself.
        All you need to do is paste it into your browser and it will come up.
        It is sort of like asking someone to do YOUR research so you can sit back and slam it.

        http://www.ushistory.org
        is a great resource with a plethora of information and very easily researched, as you have pointed out. What makes you think no one else to can do it and I have said many times research US History.

        You said:
        “You apparently think that this cut and paste rebuts this remark of mine”:

        Yes I do. Because you have stated many times that wealthy Northerners didn’t own slaves and slavery was illegal in most northern states by the civil war.
        You EXCUSE the North from owning slaves because they declared slavery illegal in MOST of their states before the Civil War?
        Thus my statement: “A slave owner is a slave owner”.

        AND the following is one big contradiction:
        You said:
        But “wealthy Northerners” didn’t own slaves either, so you haven’t corrected your statement. Kentucky and Missouri were “slave states”. Slavery was declared illegal in most Northern states at by the time of the Civil War.

        Wealthy Northerners DID OWN SLAVES.

        You said:
        “And of course, citing stats from 1703 doesn’t even address the topic let alone prove the claim.”

        It proves wealthy northerners were slave owners and provided the slaves to the South.

      • Blue

        It’s called plagrarism. You cut and pasted the words without quotation marks or giving your source. That is not research, it’s intellectual theft. This is something that is taught in middle school English. In high school, you’d get an F for this kind of stuff. In college, you could be expelled. Don’t blame me for your mistakes. Post a link.

        I don’t “excuse” the north for owning slaves. I am speaking of the state of legality at the time of the Civil War and after. Therefore, talking about 1703 is not relevant.

        You might try slowing down and at least trying to understand what others are saying.

      • Flossie

        You ask for facts. I provided facts. History is fact.
        the facts I provided are located at multiple sites.
        Let’s agree to disagree and end the conversation.
        Good luck to you.

      • Blue

        I asked for facts. You provided opinion primarily, disguised as your own writing, but in reality the writing of others without attribution. It’s called plagiarism, which you presumable learned about in middle school at the latest. People need to argue in good faith, without stealing someone else’s words.

      • Flossie

        You got facts. Linked facts.
        Your argument is weak ….so you have to deflect somehow right.
        Good tactic.

      • Blue

        Pointing out plagiarism isn’t a deflection. You cannot pass other’s work off as your own.

      • Blue

        That would be the southern states wanting to keep the numbers equal, so that non-slave states would not abolish slavery throughout the country. The non-slave states would not have been at all concerned about an imbalance.

      • Flossie

        do your research.

      • Blue

        Do yours. Please.

        The nonslave states would have been happy to have predominance.

      • Flossie

        In the years leading up to the Missouri Compromise of 1820, tensions began to rise between pro-slavery and anti-slavery factions within the U.S. Congress and across the country. They reached a boiling point after Missouri’s 1819 request for admission to the Union as a slave state, which threatened to upset the delicate balance between slave states and free states. To keep the peace, Congress orchestrated a two-part compromise, granting Missouri’s request but also admitting Maine as a free state. It also passed an amendment that drew an imaginary line across the former Louisiana Territory, establishing a boundary between free and slave regions that remained the law of the land until it was negated by the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854.

        http://www.history.com/topics/missouri-compromise

      • Blue

        Thanks for posting the source. The free states would have been glad to have predominance. I can’t imagine how you can disagree with that.

      • Flossie

        Depending on which side you were on at the time.
        Either one would have wanted predominance.
        But, just to be clear, the US Congress wanted it as well, NOT just the south as you previously stated.

      • Blue

        I’m sure they’d have both liked predominance. The Congress didn’t have a unified desire.

      • Flossie

        Prove it.

      • Blue

        Prove that the Congress, which was made up of men from every state, didn’t all have the same wishes? Isn’t that not only obvious, but what you said above?

      • Flossie

        I am talking about the Congress having a desire for Free States and Slave States to be equal (not each individual person in Congress).
        The US Congress acts collectively as a whole.

      • Blue

        OK, that makes sense.

      • Jenkem Jones

        I can tell that you went to public school.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Having a bad week? Poor fella…..

      • Barbara Nannery

        Dear Heart– the U.S. flag flew over slave ships too! And for everyone on here— read true history. The “hated flag” was designed and used by the soldiers to differentiate themselves from the Union side so they wouldn’t fire on their own troops, which they had done! I assure you, every enemy outside our nation is sitting back watching all of us fools tearing our country apart. We will cease to exist if we continue on this path.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Barabara, this isn’t about the US flag! This is about the treason flag of the southern states. Southerners should get over their failed attempt at tearing this nation apart and learn something from it. That rebel flag is a symbol of racism and a very dark time in our history. Deal with it. And the fools trying to tear this country apart are people like you who won’t get over the civil war and still whine about secession because a black man is your President. Put that hatred away and be pround of the US.

        BTW, the US won’t cease to exist if we burn that silly rag of a rebel flag.

      • Blue

        I was told just today by an overpriveledged idiot that Obama is only half-black, not black! He’s only black when it’s convenient, he said, as if Obama sometimes tried to claim he was white.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        these righties will say anything to change the subject from their defense of overt racism.

      • Blue

        Then take down the flag of treason and slavery and stop defending it.

      • John Doe

        this idot is talking shit,you need to live in africa, the AIDS infested shit hole,

      • SandyS

        Cite your sources, please. Citing statistics and “facts” without them is meaningless, easily disregarded, unbelievable, and thoroughly unconvincing.

      • Flossie

        Did you have history in school? It’s all in there.

        The South funded the government.
        The North did not free their slaves until over a year after the war.
        (Emancipation Proclamation was to free slaves in the SOUTH only)

        The flag was the Northern Virginia battle flag most associated with Robert E. Lee, who thought slavery was a sin AND freed all of his inherited slaves.

        All slave ships belonged to the North.

        Check it out…. American History 101.

      • Blue

        The southern states seceded because they wanted to keep black people enslaved.

        http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

      • Flossie

        Your link is to an article by Ta-Nehisi Coates, a writer and blogger whose genre is racism, politics and culture.

        His father, William Coates was a former Black Panther.

        What did you think he was going to say?

        Slavery was not the cause of The Civil War.
        Lincoln’s Proclamation was for the South ONLY to free their slaves. The North held slaves over a year after the Civil War.
        Lincoln also wanted to deport all freed slaves to British Colonies in South America where slavery still existed.

        As deplorable as it was, slavery was a common practice all over the world at that time in history, the southern states played a very small part of that history.

      • Blue

        So you’re going to go full-on denial in the face of reality?

        Coates is QUOTING the leaders from the south who led the secession. It doesn’t matter that you’re an apologist for or that’s he’s anti-slavery. They said what they said. The South seceded over slavery. Period.

        Slavery was the cause of the war.

        “Slavery in the north” is a distortion of the facts. The states of Kentucky and Missouri didn’t secede, and Lincoln didn’t include them in the proclamation. That is not “the North”. That is two slave holding states continuing slavery. Lincoln did not include them because he was afraid he would have more states in rebellion-OVER SLAVERY.

        Slavery was not a “common practice” in nations comparable to the United States.

        You would do well to look to other sources instead of buying this revisionist history lock stock and barrel. The quotes from the leaders of the Confederacy prove that the South seceded over slavery. Lincoln declared war over secession.

      • Flossie

        History is history… you can’t just switch it around to make your argument sound better.
        Coates article included excerpts from the “Secession Documents”; he didn’t quote them. His views on racism and reparations have always appeared somewhat skewed with “victimization”.

        I don’t apologize for slavery in any way, as I stated previously – “American slavery was deplorable and a stain on our history”.

        Slavery was a “common practice” all over the world.
        A Dutch ship actually brought the first slaves to America and slavery existed in Europe, South America, Asia and Africa.

        Why is the “slavery in the North” a distortion?
        By distortion, do you mean it was less deplorable?
        Northerners owned and used slaves just as the South and slavery continued in the North over a year after the southern slaves were freed. So why are YOU apologizing for the North?

        Bingo! Lincoln declared war over secession, not slavery.
        I think you just made my point.

        The North’s goal in the beginning was the preservation of the Union, not emancipation.
        The North and South were very different in nature and wanted different things from their government. So, basically the issue was not the existence of slavery, but the extension of it.

        Lincoln was elected by the Electoral College.
        Immediately after his election – South Carolina and then one by one, six other states—Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, and Texas—left the Union, calling their new country the
        Confederate States of America.

        The South funded the Union’s government and basically slavery was fine with the North as long as it funded the government, but when the states seceded then the North had a problem with it.

      • Blue

        Coates’ view is from “victimization”? You not only criticize someone for seeing the slaves as victims, you put the words “victimization” in quotation marks? What is wrong with you? You can’t even admit that slaves are correctly seen as victims?

        You have to look at more sources than just those that apologize for slavery and glorify the South.

        History is history. You can’t just deny direct quotations, in context, to further your argument.

      • Flossie

        I have previously said slavery was deplorable and a stain on American history, so don’t try and twist what I said.
        Coates didn’t live in the time of slavery, he is a modern day journalist who portrays today’s African American citizens as victims.
        So….recap….when I referred to Coates’ victimization of African Americans – I meant in “today’s society”.
        Get it?

      • Blue

        When I talk about what you actually say, you get mad and claim I’m twisting it. And then you go on as if you perfectly understand the past, but somehow a person who’s spent years studying the history of the Civil War as incapable of understanding it.

        Of course, black Americans were victimized then and are still victimized today.

      • SandyS

        If someone can’t back their statements up with reality, they are fallacy. Remember, burden of proof lies with whoever is making the claim.

        The statements lacking proof are:

        1) The South started freeing slaves and started integration in
        1859 after making note of the Russians freeing their servants.
        2) General
        Lee, was anti-slavery.
        3) 4.8% of Southerners owned slaves.

        4) 13,000 slave owners were free blacks. (That IS a damn good way to keep families of slaves together, smart if true!)
        5) 3000 men who
        fought in the war as Confederates were black.
        6) 1.5% of white
        Americans, nationwide, owned slaves.
        7) The North owned fewer slaves than the south because
        of industrialization (which might be one reason, certainly not the ONLY reason).

        Take your time! I will gladly concede that these are facts once you cite your sources. It can be one source for all 7. Please, don’t point me to a blog that does not cite their sources, either.

      • Flossie

        You will need to direct your comment to the one who made those statements. The statements I made are basic American History and easily researched or I will be happy to provide links.

        1) I never mentioned the Russians in any of my statements.

        2) My statement was “The flag was the Northern Virginia battle flag most associated with Robert E. Lee, who thought slavery was a sin AND freed all of his inherited slaves”.

        Lee officially freed the slaves on December 29, 1862.
        http://www.nps.gov/

        3) 4) 5) 6) and 7) are not my statements.

      • Blue

        The leaders of the South, in their own words, said that they seceded from the Union over slavery.

        http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

      • Rebe Lee

        I didn’t say there weren’t people in favor of continuing slavery in the South, that would be stupid. The South wasn’t as industrialized and slavery accounted for a large part of the economy, even tho only 4.8% of Southerners owned slaves. But the South didn’t wage the war, the North did. And Lincoln’s response on why he wouldn’t let the South go quietly was because of money. The South, and it’s slaves, paid for the union’s economy. Hence why Lincoln had no interest in freeing the slaves in the South as a purpose of the war, because that would hurt the economy too. Lincoln was a supremacist, he had no empathy for the black slaves, that’s not why he waged the war.

      • Blue

        The south seceded to defend slavery. Beginning and end of the reason. No other reason. The south had very little industry, period, and the slave owners wanted to keep slavery legal so that they could stay rich.

        Lincoln waged the war to preserve the Union. Your version of history is warped. I believe this is because you don’t ever pause to identify with anyone other than a white southerner.

      • Rebe Lee

        I’m Gypsy. And an immigrant. My people survived a lot more slavery, over 1000 years, put together. Plus the Soviet Union and the Holocaust and the current declared apartheid in Europe, but you go ahead and keep making assumptions about me.
        Point is, it was about money for both sides. I stated that, including in my response to you, so how you figure I warped history is beyond me. We’re both saying the same thing. We’re just wording it different.

      • Blue

        I absolutely will go on making assumptions based on your writing. I’ve found it’s a pretty good way to determine where someone is coming from.

      • Rebe Lee

        Apparently not, cos you assumed I’m white (us Gypsies originate from India), have long standing heritage here (I came to America when I was 4), and am trying to claim the war was about anything other than money on both sides. So far you’re really batting 1000 (←sarcasm)

      • Blue

        I didn’t assume you were white or native born. I stated, correctly, that you cannot seem to identify with anyone other than white southerners.

        As for the part about “trying to claim that the war was about anything other than money on both sides”, what are you saying? That you believe that, or that you don’t?

      • Rebe Lee

        Well you’re wrong cos it was mostly whites that enslaved Gypsies, so why would I identify with them.

        I’m saying I know the war was about money. Both sides stated as much. I never argued against that. Within the very first sentence of my first post- “…Lincoln, who was asked why he wouldn’t just let the South go quietly, stated he couldn’t because, who, then, would pay for the Gov’t?” I said right from the start it was about money. People need to learn how to read. smh

      • Blue

        I know you said it was about money on both sides. I disagreed, repeatedly, with you. You are mistaken. The south seceded over slavery. The north fought over secession.

        I don’t know why you are identifying with the slave owners, only that you are not seeing slaves as people, but as a commodity.

      • Flossie

        Just so we are clear… you believe the Civil War was all about slavery,
        even though slavery continued in the North and the rest of the country long after the war.

      • Blue

        Please, please, pay attention. The SOUTH seceded over the slavery issue. The SOUTH. Do you understand those words? The SOUTH seceded over slavery.

      • Flossie

        You didn’t answer the question.
        Slavery continued in the NORTH. The NORTH. Do you understand those words. The NORTH continued the practice of slavery after the war.

      • Blue

        I answered the question. Please reread. The South seceded over slavery. The Union went to war over secession.

        Please source your claims and explain them. Two “slave states” did not secede: Kentucky and Missouri. Lincoln didn’t include them in the Emanicpation Proclamation because he was afraid he would provoke them into secession. Slavery was illegal in most of “the North” at the time of the Civil War.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_and_free_states

      • soctal

        NO IT DID NOT! Read the damn Constitution.

      • Flossie

        The Emancipation Proclamation ended slavery in the states that rebelled. Slavery was still legal in Maryland and New Jersey. Maryland voted it illegal in 1864 and New Jersey was forced by the federal government to abolish it in 1867.

      • Rebe Lee

        Nobody is arguing against that, you dinlo gadjo..omg…..smdh

      • Blue

        Sure they are, you aren’t paying attention. I’m hearing over and over and over that the war was about $$$, and that “the North” had slaves. Too late to go to insults, it’s all over the page now.

      • Rebe Lee

        Not one fucking person has said the South’s secession didn’t lead to the war. Not one fucking person said there wasn’t racism in the South. We stated the reason for the secession, the reason for not wanting to give up slavery expansion, and the reason the Union fought to prevent the secession is all rooted in money.

      • Blue

        One fucking person after another fucking person has said all kinds of shit.

        The reason for the secession was to defend slavery.

        Again, I’m asking to you show me some examples of nations who allowed entire sections to secede without a fight. This is not some unique happenstance.

        “All rooted in money” is just plain lame. As if the North was just so greedy. Yes, I would say that Northerners didn’t want to compete with an area that had free labor. Duh.

        There was also an abolisitionist movement in this country. This is more complex than you grasp.

      • Flossie

        I answered that for you already.

      • Blue

        You gave me some examples of nations that had large portions of territory secede and the nation just allowed that? I don’t recall you doing that, and your settings prevent me from reviewing your other posts here in case I missed it.

        The defenders of treason in defense of slavery act as if Lincoln could have just blown off secession and let the South secede, which would have been pretty unusual as far as I know. Parts of a nation attempting to secede are met by force.

      • Flossie

        The war wasn’t about the two sides North or South fighting to run the government as in the English or Roman civil wars. The South attempted a peaceful secession, no different from the original American pleas from Britain.

      • Blue

        And here’s where you cut and pasted that from:

        http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Constitution_Issues/genesis_civil_war.htm

        “Even the name “Civil War” is misleading, since the war wasn’t about two sides fighting to run the central government as in the English or Roman civil wars. The South attempted a peaceful secession from federal control, an ambition no different from the original American plea for independence from Britain.”

      • soctal

        The South fired on Fort Sumter. They had an army. For peaceful protesting, look up Ghandi.

      • Flossie

        They fired on the fort to keep it from being replenished and armed by the North. I don’t think anyone is denying the South fired upon Fort Sumter. Do you really think that was the reason for the Civil War?

        The North forced the South to pay more for goods and disproportionately taxing it to support the Union government. The South was being looted to pay for the North’s policies. The South was paying 87 percent of federal tariff revenue. The South as a region was being reduced to a slave status with the federal government as its master.

      • Flossie

        No.
        Lincoln promised not to interfere with slavery, but he did pledge to “collect the duties and imposts”: he was the leading advocate of the tariff and public works policy, which is why his election prompted the South to secede.

        The Republican Platform of 1860 called for a high protective tariff that was anathema to the South.

        The Confederate Constitution is a duplicate of the original Constitution, with several improvements. It guarantees free trade, restricts legislative power in crucial ways, abolishes public works, and attempts to rein in the executive. No, it didn’t abolish slavery but neither did the original Constitution (in fact, the original protected property rights in slaves).

      • Blue

        No to what???? Just a random no to start out with????

        Of course the Constitution of the Confederacy didn’t abolish slavery, slavery was the entire reason for the formation of the Confederacy.

      • Flossie

        No. The South did not secede because of slavery.
        The ORIGINAL Constitution of the United States protected property rights in slaves and was carried over to the Constitution of the Confederacy. I didn’t think I needed to spoon feed you.

      • Blue

        Yes, the South seceded over slavery. You are simply, totally wrong. The words of the leaders of the secession prove it.

        http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

      • Blue

        http://www.plpow.com/WhyTheWarWasStarted.htm

        Rockwell’s words:

        “But why 1860? Lincoln promised not to interfere with slavery, but he did pledge to “collect the duties and imposts”: he was the leading advocate of the tariff and public works policy, which is why his election prompted the South to secede.”

        Your post:

        Lincoln promised not to interfere with slavery, but he did pledge to “collect the duties and imposts”: he was the leading advocate of the tariff and public works policy, which is why his election prompted the South to secede.

        https://www.lewrockwell.com/2000/05/lew-rockwell/genesis-of-the-civil-war/

        Rockwell’s words:

        “It is a duplicate of the original Constitution, with several improvements. It guarantees free trade, restricts legislative power in crucial ways, abolishes public works, and attempts to rein in the executive. No, it didn’t abolish slavery but neither did the original Constitution (in fact, the original protected property rights in slaves).”

        Your post:

        “The Confederate Constitution is a duplicate of the original Constitution, with several improvements. It guarantees free trade, restricts legislative power in crucial ways, abolishes public works, and attempts to rein in the executive. No, it didn’t abolish slavery but neither did the original Constitution (in fact, the original protected property rights in slaves).”

        The same article can be found on several websites. But it’s all the same article, and you aren’t Lew Rockwell.

        https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=plagiarism

      • Flossie
      • Blue

        As I have tried to point out to you, that ridiculous essay is all over the internet at various sites.

      • soctal

        The 13th amendment, which was ratified in December 1865, made chattel slavery illegal in the US. You have repeated that same crap over and over again, maybe you are not familiar with the constitution.

      • Flossie

        When was slavery abolished in New Jersey?


        Edit

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      • Rebe Lee

        So when you say it was about slavery, you actually mean to say it was about racism, like some others meant it in previous comments above. Which would be incorrect. Slavery was about money. Keeping the union together was about money. The war was about money. And stop with the underhanded attack on my character, I don’t identify with slave owners, that’s just stupid. Slaves /were/ a commodity back then. You’re thinking with the mindset of people today. People didn’t have that mindset back then..or else black people wouldn’t have owned slaves too. To disregard that fact is ignorant.

      • Blue

        Can you read at all? My words are simple and clear. The South seceded over slavery. Lincoln declared war over the secession. Step 1: The South secedes over the issue of slavery. Step 2. Lincoln takes the Union to war over secession.

        The concept of race was to used to justify white supremacy by slave owners.

        Your understanding of the mindset of people then is overly simplistic, just like your understand of why Lincoln took the nation to war. You are terribly uninformed if you think that everyone shared in the idea that black people were nothing more than a commodity.

        You have taken a single out of context quote from Lincoln and taken it for your entire understanding of Lincoln’s motivations. You need to further your research.

        I am unconcerned about your character. You are identifying with the perspective of the slave owners and their sympathizers.

        And while you’re studying up, maybe you can give me some examples of nations that allowed secession without going to war. Are you picking up what I’m saying here? Have you studied history?

      • Rebe Lee

        One more time, real slow like…Slavery as a whole, was a money thing. One more time, I did NOT say there wasn’t racism, but the original purpose, and the general purpose throughout it, of starting to bring slaves here was because of money. Lincoln didn’t want slavery to expand any further because he was a supremacist who wanted less blacks here, less chance of them mixing with whites. He stated as much. No I won’t source it, look it up for your fucking self. It’s not exactly a secret. The South didn’t want to give up their gravy train, so they seceded. Lincoln couldn’t let the union split up because the South funded the North. MONEY is the root behind all of it. If you can’t grasp this very simple concept, then I’m done, cos you’ll be too stupid for words. Stating the war was waged over money sources does not mean I am identifying with slave owners. That’s just plain stupid. I’m not going to ever look at the past with a bleeding heart, that’s pointless, they’re dead, they don’t give a flying fuck how I feel.

      • Blue

        One more time-try for the first time!

        You’re refining your argument as you go, and pretending that it’s someone else’s fault they aren’t able to guess what you’ll say next. You won’t source anything because it’s all from some lame apologist website.

        Your perspective consistently fails on the level of seeing slaves as real people. I have no idea if you’re a racist in real life, only that you’re steeped in revisionist history.

        Your views on Lincoln seem to be based on half a dozen sentences you’re reading on the fly. This is not as simple as you think.

      • Rebe Lee

        I’ve consistently said the same thing the whole way thru. Even you said I was continuing to repeat the same thing over and over. I see now you are just a troll. I’m done.

      • Blue

        Whatever helps you deal.

      • Flossie

        The Northern tariff loomed for over 3 decades; it was imposed to benefit Northern industrial interests by subsidizing their production through high prices and public works. It had the effect of forcing the South to pay more for goods and disproportionately taxing it to support the central government. It also interfered with trading relations with the rest of the world.

        So…. the South was being looted to pay for the North’s industrial policy. The battle over the tariff began in 1828, with the “tariff of abomination.” Thirty years later, the South was paying 87 percent of federal tariff revenue while having their livelihoods threatened by protectionist legislation, it become impossible for the two regions to be governed under the same regime. The South as a region was being reduced to a slave status, with the federal government as its master.

        Lincoln promised not to interfere with slavery, but he did pledge to “collect the duties and imposts”: he was the leading advocate of the tariff and public works policy, which is why his election prompted the South to secede.

        The Republican Platform of 1860 called for a high protective tariff that was anathema to the South.

        The Confederate Constitution is a duplicate of the original Constitution, with several improvements. It guarantees free trade, restricts legislative power in crucial ways, abolishes public works, and attempts to rein in the executive. No, it didn’t abolish slavery but neither did the original Constitution (in fact, the original protected property rights in slaves).

      • John Doe

        i will just fly the confederate flag,like i always have,& the ones,that do not like it,can kiss my cracker ass,

      • John Doe

        if it is not white, it is not right, i do not care what all of you think the rest is ROACHS

      • Blue

        Uh, no. I did not say that it was about money for the Union. Lincoln declared war to preserve the Union. The South seceded to preserve slavery. You cannot seem to wrap your mind around the fact that slaves were people. Not economic units.

      • Flossie

        The North held slaves long after the Civil War.
        Why were the Northern slaves not included in Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation?

      • Blue

        Because Lincoln was afraid that the border states that did not secede would join the South. The SOUTH seceded over the issue of slavery. Lincoln and the Congress declared war over the secession.

      • Flossie

        Whaaaaaat? They declared war over the secession and not slavery.
        When did you change your mind?

      • Blue

        I never changed it. You just finally managed to read what I’m saying and understand it.

      • Flossie

        I was being sarcastic with humor… my bad.

      • Blue

        That doesn’t make a lot of sense.

      • Flossie

        People tend to get hostile and/or insulting when you don’t agree.
        I try to move away from that whenever possible.

      • soctal

        Apparently your dont understand CAUSE and EFFECT.
        CAUSE: Slavery
        EFFECT: Secession —> Civil War.

      • Flossie

        The North forced the South to pay more for goods and disproportionately taxing it to support the Union government. The South was being looted to pay for the North’s policies. The South was paying 87 PERCENT of federal tariff revenue for 3 DECADES. The South as a region was being reduced to a slave status with the federal government as its master.

      • Flossie

        Apparently you don’t understand SARCASM and HUMOR.

      • Flossie

        Your link is to an article by Ta-Nehisi Coates, a writer and blogger whose genre is racism, politics and culture.

        His father, William Coates was a former Black Panther.

        What did you think he was going to say?

      • Blue

        I hate to break it to you, but these are quotes from the men themselves. You can make dumb accusations about Coates all you like, but since these are direct quotes, it doesn’t matter that you’re a neo-Confederate or that Coates is a distinguished scholar of black history. Neither of your backgrounds changes what the men who led the secession ACTUALLY SAID. Please stop fighting reality. These are quotes.

      • JaNay

        I hate to break to you…..but they are excerpts from the documents, not quotes. Slavery was legal when the documents were written.

      • Blue

        Yes, that’s called a QUOTE. I QUOTED from the link. An excerpt from a document is a QUOTE.

        http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quote?s=t

        And yes, slavery was legal when the documents were written. What on earth is the reason you stated something so obvious?

      • JaNay

        No. You provided a link for an Article by Ta-Nehisi Coates.
        The author inserted “excerpts” of the actual written secession documents. See the following definition:

        An excerpt comes from a written source, but a quote isn’t necessarily from a written source (e.g. you could quote something someone said).

        The reason I mentioned slavery was legal when the documents were written is because the language, words and world was different at that time in history. Therefore, you can’t take a document written hundreds of years ago and apply it to today’s standards.
        At the time the secession documents were written – racism was common practice, slavery was legal and mixing of the classes was frowned upon. (people were not to marry beneath their class)

        Half the country was unhappy with the government and political choices, secession was not a surprise to the government.

      • Blue

        Again: Excerpts from documents are quotes, too. You might want to read your own definition, focusing on the words “isn’t necessarily”.

        That the times were different is beside the point. I’m not taking today’s values and applying them to that time. Coates provides the proof that the war was over slavery.

        “Half the country” is an exaggeration. Some in the south were unhappy that slavery was threatened. Some, not all.

      • JaNay

        He actually inserted a “copy” of the document, he didn’t quote.
        Let’s compromise and you call it a quote, it’s not worth the argument.

        Coates didn’t provide proof of anything. He inserted a copy of “some” excerpts of the secession documents into his article.
        The Civil War was a bit more complex.
        It’s okay to not understand it.

        If you want to stick your head in the sand and think slavery was the only issue involved in the Civil War, you go right ahead.
        To deny that government and political issues existed at the time of secession is just a refusal to accept reality in order to push your agenda that America “owes” something to descendants of slavery. America will never move forward as long as that attitude is taught to your children.

      • Blue

        It’s a quote. Read the dictionary.

        I’ve lived in the South almost all of my 60 years, I’ve studied the Civil War, and the cause of the Civil War was slavery. Coates provided the proof in the linked article.

        The “other issues” got mentioned once the war was over.

      • JaNay

        I was willing to let it go, but…
        a quote is a statement that has been made by someone else.

        an excerpt is a passage or extract (meaning more than one line) from a larger body of work…such as a newspaper/book/novel/document.
        Coates inserted excerpts of the secession documents that were useful to his argument. He did not quote the author.
        I have no problem with you calling it a quote.

        If slavery was the cause then why did the Emancipation Proclamation only free the slaves in the South? The laws in the North then forbade entry, travel, work or residence by slaves.
        So…. who was freed?

        The 1860 Republican Convention promised to protect slavery everywhere it existed. Lincoln offered a constitutional amendment protecting slavery forever.
        An 1862 resolution stated the war’s aim was to “preserve the Union, not free the slave”.

      • Blue

        A quote is also an excerpt from a written passage. Read your own definition. You’re willing to let it go only if I concede to your pedantry.
        ; )

        The South seceded over slavery. Logically, you can’t blame Lincoln’s later action on the Confederacy’s original action of secession. The Confederacy initiated the Civil War by seceding over the issue of slavery.

      • JaNay

        We will agree to disagree. ;=)

        Bless your heart.

      • Blue

        You poor thing.

      • Joe

        Absolute nonsense! You can talk all day long about who is right and who is wrong but in the end nobody will gain ground in either direction. Do you really think the soldiers of the confederate army gave a shit about slavery? Most of them fought because they were simply bored and thought it would be over in a month. Lincoln himself stated that he was not fighting to free the slaves but to instead preserve the union. Either way, let’s look at the return rate of released blacks from prisons! Let’s look at the black prison population vs the white prison population! Let’s look at blacks vs whites on welfare! Should we keep going? Take any black dominated city in the US and look at current photos as well as photos before the black plague took over, they speak for themselves! Harrisburg was gorgeous 50 years ago, its a shit hole now, wonder why?? They spread like a virus, consume and destroy everything and then spread to a new area and repeat the process!

      • Flossie

        You can talk all day long because it’s a “disqus” forum.
        We agree on the war being fought to preserve the Union, but do you really think the confederate soldiers were fighting because they were bored?

      • Blue

        Let’s look at the history of race in this nation, including economic theft of wages, family, and life through slavery, an institution that lasted longer than it’s been banned in this country. Then look at decades of Jim Crow, the KKK, lynching, red-lining, and segregation and the economic theft of those practices. And then look at policies like stop and frisk that impact brown men more than any other group. After you look at that, we can talk.

      • Flossie

        There are other countries in the world.
        Go try one out, because it’s obvious you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

      • Blue

        Oh, nonsense. It’s much better to confront the world as it is instead of twisting your mind into a pretzel. Only reality will fix this problem.

      • Flossie

        You are correct, but most don’t want to face reality. Instead they choose to have a pissing contest to see who is the most victimized victim.

        This may surprise you but there are MANY families who live in poverty; Poverty does not discriminate.
        Native Americans haven’t had it easy either – they were the FIRST VICTIMS of America. They were all but exterminated (genocide).
        White man’s treatment of Native Americans was also deplorable.
        Do they whine, groan, moan, loot, kill each other and play the race card? Do you hear them blame history for their mistakes? Do they want a free ride at every turn? Is their past an excuse for all their mistakes?

        NO.

        This country has had enough slave blaming and race baiting.
        Either be part of the solution or don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

      • Blue

        You’re making me laugh, pitting black Americans and native Americans against each other like that. Both groups are organized [in your view they both “play the race card”], neither needs you to educate them. And both would laugh to see you claim that poverty does not discriminate. There are poor people of all ethnicities, but any educated person knows that more brown people live in poverty than white people.

        Slave blaming is a ridiculous term. What are you trying to say?

      • Flossie

        Pitting one against the other….is that what you hear?
        Or could I possibly have been using the Native Americans as an example?

        I never said Native Americans play the race card.

        More brown people live in poverty? Really.

        Slave blaming is what you are hearing every time “breaking news” happens with brown people. Whether it is a shooting, a riot, looting, etc. it is all blamed on slavery/white privilege/racism.

      • Blue

        Of course it’s what I hear, it’s what you’re doing! Your using one as the example of bad and the other as good-pitting them against each other. Good minority and bad minority.

        I never said either group “played the race card”. I said both were organized.

        You announced to me with a lot of snark that some people of all races lived in poverty. But when I point out that it’s disproportionately brown people, somehow that’s obvious?

        I hear “slave blaming” everytime a brown person commits an act of violence? The hell I do, that’s simply false.

      • Flossie

        You are the spokesman for Native Americans too?
        Why did you go back and change your comment after my reply? DISHONESTY is not a good value.

        Your comment:
        “I never said either group “played the race card”. I said both were organized.”
        HERE IS YOUR BACK DOOR EXIT AGAIN.
        Because “organized” can mean so many different things right?

        Poverty comes in all colors, just admit it. It’s not a pissing contest.
        Poor white people exist. Trust me.

      • Blue

        I probably edited it without looking at what you said. And I already said that anyone from any group can be poor, so your attack seems ridiculous.

        Of course organized means many different things-but you seem unaware that native Americans have any organization at all. Your comments about them made it clear that you see them as a “good minority”, and black people as a “bad minority”. You aren’t aware that organize, “complain”, and educate the public about their history.

        It’s very common for Civil War apologists to eventually move to that kind of critique of black people. As if black people were subjected to slavery, Jim Crow, lynching, the KKK, job discrimnation, stop and frisk, red-lining, and segregation, they were supposed to be nice about what that does to living black people today.

      • Flossie

        Nice Apology… LOL.
        You didn’t say: “anyone from any group can be poor” – you said black people were worse than any other race with regard to poverty and still being mistreated today.

        I am well aware that Native Americans work very hard to retain and teach their heritage. You rarely hear them complain about what they don’t have or blame everyone else for it. If you choose to call them the “good minority” = those are your words, not mine.

        Black Americans have been given every opportunity and SOME have pissed it away. There are black doctors, lawyers, professors, entertainers, etc. and they all worked hard to get there. The ones who didn’t complain they haven’t been given enough. It’s the white man’s fault if they sell drugs or loot and steal.

        Affirmative Action and hate crime laws do not apply to White Americans. White America has to pay for college and if they can’t afford it, they have less opportunity for generations. You can attack them for being white and no laws protect them.
        Theft of labor or lack of labor?
        Desegregation was demanded and received.
        Affirmative Action was demanded and received.

      • Blue

        I don’t owe you any apology. You owe one. If you actually want me to drop the stuff about your plagiarism, you’ll drop this.

        Here’s a list of corrections to your claims:

        #1-Yes, I did say that anyone from any group could be poor. It’s right here, I cut and pasted it from a previous post. You missed it somehow. An exact quote:

        “There are poor people of all ethnicities, but any educated person knows that more brown people live in poverty than white people.”

        # 2-Your continuing attempts to make Native Americans the “good minority” and black Americans the “bad minority” are problematic to put it diplomatically. You are mistaken about both Native American activism and Native American social problems.

        YOU are calling Native Americans the “good minority”, not I. You praise them and criticize black Americans.

        #3 Hate crime laws do apply to white Americans.

        http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jewish-center-shootings/snapshot-hate-crime-america-numbers-n81521

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

        I have no idea what you’re talking about with the college costs part of your post. Are you under some delusion that only black people can get student grants and loans? You are totally mistaken.

        Theft of labor-slavery. You can’t really call it anything else.

      • Blue
      • Flossie

        A) “I don’t owe you any apology. You owe one. If you actually want me to drop the stuff about your plagiarism, you’ll drop this”.

        I get the feeling you wouldn’t apologize for anything you did wrong.

        So I don’t expect it. It takes character.

        #1- The white poverty rate does run much lower than the black rate, just under 10 percent, one-third of the black rate. But the white poor outnumber the black poor considerably, 19 to 7.8 million. White people make up 42 percent of America’s poor, black people about 28 percent. The basic numbers don’t change when we look at people living in extreme poverty, in households making less than 50 percent of the meager poverty line. Of the 20 million people who live at this alarming level of want and deprivation, about 42 percent are white, 27 percent black. http://inequality.org/poverty-matter-black-white

        Your Comment:
        “There are poor people of all ethnicities, but any educated person knows that more brown people live in poverty than white people.”

        # 2- Your comment: “Native Americans the “good minority” and black Americans the “bad minority” are problematic”.

        you call “complaining” and I believe also “whining”.

        YOU are calling Native Americans the “good minority”, not I. You praise them and criticize black Americans.

        #3 Hate crime laws do apply to white Americans.

        http://www.nbcnews.com/storyli

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

        I have no idea what you’re talking about with the college costs part of your post. Are you under some delusion that only black people can get student grants and loans? You are totally mistaken.

        Theft of labor-slavery. You can’t really call it anything else.

      • Blue

        I didn’t really care so much if you apologized for your plagiarism, but I did expect you to drop it once I busted you.

        You said:
        #1- The white poverty rate does run much lower than the black rate, just under 10 percent, one-third of the black rate. But the white poor outnumber the black poor considerably, 19 to 7.8 million. White people make up 42 percent of America’s poor, black people about 28 percent. The basic numbers don’t change when we look at people living in extreme poverty, in households making less than 50 percent of the meager poverty line. Of the 20 million people who live at this alarming level of want and deprivation, about 42 percent are white, 27 percent black. http://inequality.org/poverty-

        I’m sorry, I did need to clarify that I meant percentage-wise. That is my mistake.

        Your comment:

        My comment was that Native Americans do not complain, whine and moan about it. I don’t see them on the news everyday, do you?

        My response:

        Can you clarify what you’re complaining about here with this good Native American/bad black people crap? Yes, Native Americans are organized, yes they “complain”, yes they get federal assistance of various kinds, yes, they have very high rates of poverty and addiction. Where do you live? You’re going to hear the most about the ethnicities in your area.

        Your comment:

        White race is NOT a protected class and hate crimes cannot be charged toward a person committing a hate crime upon a white person. Look up Eric Holder and protected class.

        My response:

        You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. You need to follow the links I gave you.

        You don’t have to be a member of a protected class in order to have a hate crime against you prosecuted.

        http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jewish-center-shootings/snapshot-hate-crime-america-numbers-n81521

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

        Go to the link and look at the table for the word “white”.

        https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2012/topic-pages/victims/victims_final

        “22.0 percent were victims of an anti-white bias.”

        Those are FBI statistics.

        Your comment:

        White people get loans. Minorities get grants.

        My response:

        You seriously believe this? Do you actually mean this literally? Because like your beliefs about hate crimes, this is totally wrong and easy to disprove.

        Your comment:

        #5 Theft of labor-slavery. You can’t really call it anything else.
        It was called slavery and still is.

        My response:

        You are being silly. Yes, slavery is theft of labor. Are you familiar with the concept of definitions?

      • Flossie

        If you will look – you will SEE LINKS on the COMMENTS.
        So that would not be considered plagiarism.

        YOU got caught changing your original comments to fit your back tracking responses and now mention (even in this one) plagiarism in every comment. Show some character and don’t mention it again, because I am not going to.

        Your Comment:
        #1- I’m sorry, I did need to clarify that I meant percentage-wise. That is my mistake.
        Response:
        My response was in percentages.
        ….of the 20 million people who live at this alarming level of want and deprivation, about 42 percent are white, 27 percent black. http://inequality.org/poverty-

        Your comment:
        Can you clarify what you’re complaining about here with this good Native American/bad black people crap? Yes, Native Americans are organized, yes they “complain”, yes they get federal assistance of various kinds, yes, they have very high rates of poverty and addiction. Where do you live? You’re going to hear the most about the ethnicities in your area.

        Response:
        I think you are confused….. I NEVER said “good/bad” people/race.
        YOU said that. I did say Native Americans don’t complain and aren’t on the news everyday regarding history.

        Your Comment:
        You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. You need to follow the links I gave you.

        Response:

        the link is Holder’s actual testimony.
        (You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink)

        Your comment:
        You seriously believe this? Do you actually mean this literally? Because like your beliefs about hate crimes, this is totally wrong and easy to disprove.

        Response:
        You can disprove Affirmative Action?

        Your Comment:
        You are being silly. Yes, slavery is theft of labor. Are you familiar with the concept of definitions?
        Response:
        Slaves weren’t available “only for hire”, which is a requirement for theft of labor.

      • Blue

        Yes, after you were caught, you admitted it. Congratulations! I would gladly drop it if you do, but you won’t, so here we are.

        I am assuming I went back and edited a comment for clarity-I’m not even sure which comment or what changes I made, I only know that I do go back and edit myself because I’m compulsive that way. If you drop it, I will. If you don’t, I won’t.

        YOU got caught changing your original comments to fit your back tracking responses and now mention (even in this one) plagiarism in every comment. Show some character and don’t mention it again, because I am not going to.

        Your Comment:
        #1- I’m sorry, I did need to clarify that I meant percentage-wise. That is my mistake.
        Response:
        My response was in percentages.
        ….of the 20 million people who live at this alarming level of want and deprivation, about 42 percent are white, 27 percent black.http://inequality.org/poverty-

        Uh, yeah, I’m saying I made a mistake, and that I should have been more clear.

        Your comment:
        Response:
        I think you are confused….. I NEVER said “good/bad” people/race.
        YOU said that. I did say Native Americans don’t complain and aren’t on the news everyday regarding history.

        My response:

        You have a reading and/or writing comprehension issue. When you praise one entire group and criticize another, that is a good/bad comparison.

        Your comment:

        the link is Holder’s actual testimony.
        (You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink)

        My response:

        I gave you FBI statistics on hate crimes committed against whites. You have no way around this. I am leading you to water. You will not drink it.

        Again, here are stats from 95 to 12, Holder was AG for a good bit of that time, and you can see that whites are listed.

        http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jewish-center-shootings/snapshot-hate-crime-america-numbers-n81521

        You can disprove Affirmative Action?

        I didn’t address Affirmative Action, as you certainly know. I told you that grants and loans are not race or ethnicity-based. Black people, white people, Asian, Latino, all can apply for student aid. If you think that white people get loans and black people get grants, you are wrong.

        Your comment:
        Slaves weren’t available “only for hire”, which is a requirement for theft of labor.

        My response:

        Required by who? This makes no sense.

      • Blue

        Yes, after you were caught, you went back and put links in the comments. After you were caught you first denied you were stealing from others, then you told me not to steal, then you finally admitted it. Now you keep complaining about it. I have told you at least twice, if you drop it I will, if you don’t, I won’t.

        I did not go back and alter a comment to trip you up. I still don’t know exactly what comment you mean. I do often edit myself after I post, and I think you are just grasping at straws for some way to attack me.

        Regarding percentages, I said that I made a mistake. I put it in small easy to understand words and I said I was sorry. Why are you going on about it now?

        Regarding Hate Crimes against Whites, I am leading you to water. You will not drink.

        Again, here are the stats for 2008 to 20012. Holder was AG for most of that. Hate crimes against whites were prosecuted. This is reality.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

        Regarding affirmative action, you know perfectly well that I addressed student grants and loans. Not affirmative action. You apparently have realized that when you said that whites got loans and blacks got grants, you were wrong.

        You are praising Native Americans as a group and criticizing black Americans as a group. Praise is comparable to good and criticism is comparable to bad. You really need help with a dictionary.

        As for this:

        “Slaves weren’t available “only for hire”, which is a requirement for theft of labor”

        Really, tell me more. Who “requires” it and what is their authority? LOL

      • Flossie

        I didn’t steal or deny stealing. You’re just mad because I’m right and you’re wrong.
        You are the “someone who complained”…..lol
        (So, don’t distort the truth by saying “someone complained” say “I complained”)
        Get over it.
        It’s squashed.

        We agree you were wrong about the black poverty statement.
        It’s squashed.

        Hate Crimes against someone of the White race is not a chargeable offense
        because the white race is NOT a “Protected Class”.
        Unless you can provide an example of a minority being CHARGED WITH A HATE CRIME against a white person. (Not an assault, mugging, shooting, robbery or other crime.)

        (transcript of Holder’s testimony)
        Based on Holder’s testimony, it is clear that the law would not protect white victims who were attacked because of their race by racial minorities. Holder’s testimony explicitly excluded prosecution of the gay activist who attacks a Christian minister or priest because of his sermon on homosexuality, but the legislation protects the gay activist when he is attacked. This is a dangerous development to our laws and our nation. One of the most fundamental principles in the founding of this nation was that all are created equal. Lawlessness ensues when the law is perceived as a weapon against certain groups for the benefit of other groups. It is not enough to simply point to a bundle of statistics or history, or to Matthew Sheppard, to justify unfairness in the law.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/

        Your link is incorrect.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

        I did not praise Native Americans – I simply said “they don’t complain”.

        Theft Labor.
        Legal definition requires it.

      • Blue

        Flossie 22 minutes ago

        Flossie: I didn’t steal or deny stealing. You’re just mad because I’m right and you’re wrong.

        Blue: Not on this planet. On this planet, you stole, you denied, you accused me of stealing too, and then you complained over and over and over again.

        Flossie: You are the “someone who complained”…..lol
        (So, don’t distort the truth by saying “someone complained” say “I complained”)”

        Blue: You have a real problem understanding what you read. As in any sort of abstractions go over your head. Yes, I was the one who complained. Duh.

        Flossie: “Get over it.
        It’s squashed.”

        Blue: All you have to do is drop it, and it’s over.

        Flossie: We agree you were wrong about the black poverty statement.
        It’s squashed.

        Blue: As I said, I did not word it correctly at all and I am sorry that I made that mistake. Percentage wise, more brown people are in poverty than white. But anyone from any ethnic background can be poor.

        Flossie: Hate Crimes against someone of the White race is not a chargeable offense
        because the white race is NOT a “Protected Class”.
        Unless you can provide an example of a minority being CHARGED WITH A HATE CRIME against a white person. (Not an assault, mugging, shooting, robbery or other crime.)

        Blue: I did. I provided you with FBI statistics.

        Flossie: (transcript of Holder’s testimony)
        Based on Holder’s testimony, it is clear that the law would not protect white victims who were attacked because of their race by racial minorities. Holder’s testimony explicitly excluded prosecution of the gay activist who attacks a Christian minister or priest because of his sermon on homosexuality, but the legislation protects the gay activist when he is attacked. This is a dangerous development to our laws and our nation. One of the most fundamental principles in the founding of this nation was that all are created equal. Lawlessness ensues when the law is perceived as a weapon against certain groups for the benefit of other groups. It is not enough to simply point to a bundle of statistics or history, or to Matthew Sheppard, to justify unfairness in the law.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/

        Your link is incorrect.”

        Blue: That is not a transcript of Holder’s testimony. It’s someone’s idiotic Free Republic interpretation of Holder’s testimony.

        My link is to FBI stats. I’ve given those to you twice. You do not know what you are talking about.

        Here’s another link:

        https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2012/tables-and-data-declarations/1tabledatadecpdf/table_1_incidents_offenses_victims_and_known_offenders_by_bias_motivation_2012.xls

        As you can see, Anti-white is listed. In 2012, there were 657 incidents of anti-white hate crime.

        A “protected class” refers to anti-discrimination laws. Not to hate crimes.

        Flossie said: I did not praise Native Americans – I simply said “they don’t complain”.

        Blue said: You cannot be for real. Yes, saying that they don’t complain is praise. Again, the dictionary is suggested to you. [By me, since you don’t get any sort of figurative language.]

        Google Native American Protests and look at the “complaints”. LOL

        Flossie said: Theft Labor.
        Legal definition requires it.

        Blue said: Uh, no. Slaves were not giving their labor. It was taken by force. That is theft.

      • Flossie

        I am not going to waste any more time on your absolute nonsense.
        I know what I said and what I did.
        1. It’s a word for word transcript of his testimony. There is a video of his testimony online. Google it. You have to be in a protected class before a “hate crime” can be committed on you. That is the law. Research it.
        2. I haven’t seen the Native American protests, riots or looting on CNN or any other media, but obviously you have. (and that is what i referred to – in the media)
        3. The legal definition of “labor theft” includes the theft of a Hireable Worker’s labor. Slavery was legal in America and slaves were not “hireable”.

      • Blue

        Again, you are mixing up anti-discrimination law and hate crimes law. They are not the same. I gave you FBI crimes statistics for anti-white bias hate crimes. It’s there in black and white.

        1. AG Eric Holder did not go before Congress and say “Based on Holder’s testimony, it is clear that the law would not protect white victims who were attacked because of their race by racial minorities.” That is ridiculous. This is not a transcript. It is some idiotic’s interpretation of Holder’s testimony.

        2. You might look up Native American reaction to the Washington football team’s name. You might also look up and see how many Native Americans draw various federal benefits, and how many suffer from substance abuse problems. You can make them “better” in your own mind, but I’m telling you that is a classic white supremacist strategy.

        3. This makes zero sense. The fact that the abomination of chattel slavery was legal does not mean that slave owners didn’t steal the slave’s labor.

      • Flossie

        AGAIN, my comment was pretty cut and dry.
        You like to make EVERY COMMENT a pissing contest.
        NO, I AM NOT MIXING UP anything.

        1. Caucasians/Whites are not a protected class. It has nothing to do with anti anything. They are NOT a protected class.
        Eric Holder’s testimony is online. I gave you the link.
        You don’t have to believe the transcript….you can watch him say it.

        2. My comment said “Native Americans” are not in the media EVERYDAY moaning, whining, protesting, looting, shooting, burning their neighborhoods and blaming the cops, the flag and everything else for their own behavior. The fact they protested a football team name hardly qualifies.
        Native Americans chose desegregation, unlike “Brown Americans”, therefore Federal benefits will not be treated the same.
        NO ONE said they were “better” and of course they have social problems just like everyone else.

        There you go pulling the race/white supremacist card.
        Do I looked shocked?….I rest my case.

        3. It’s legislation…I don’t make the laws.

      • Blue

        1. Flossie, regardless of how angry or resentful you get, you can’t change the facts. Hate crime laws apply to whites. I showed you the FBI website with the numbers of anti-white hate crimes. How can your mind reject such evidence that isn’t open to anyone’s interpretation is just amazing. FBI stats. Anti-white bias. Right there in print, year after year.

        http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/hate-crime-laws-protection.html

        “Yes, hate crime laws protect everyone from bias crimes. Hate crime laws prohibit committing a crime against a person because of the person’s race, religion (including atheism), ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation. Because everyone has a race, religion, ethnicity, gender, and sexual orientation, hate crime laws protect everyone. For general information on hate crimes, see Hate Crimes: Laws and Penalties.”

        I know that on Rush Limbaugh and Free Republic, etc, this is what they have said but they are either mistaken or lying.

        However, hate crime laws protect everyone who is targeted for a crime motivated by bias, not just people who are members of a minority group. For example, every year, there are hate crimes motivated by anti-white bias, just as there are hate crimes motivated by bias against African Americans. Since everyone has a race, national origin, and so on, everyone is protected under hate crime laws when they are victimized because of their race or national origin. For more information, see Is Everyone Protected by Hate Crime Laws?

        http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/hate-crimes-laws-and-penalties.htm

        Please feel free to show me/quote me which part of Holder’s testimony you think says that hate crimes laws do not protect white people. Holder is presented with several scenarios and asked by Senator Sessions if those could be prosecuted, and Sessions seems pretty confused by his answers. So does your poster from Free Republic.

        2. Singling out one minority as better than another is a white supremacist tactic. You may not realize that, after all, you didn’t even accept at first that you were setting up one minority for praise and another for criticism. Yelling “race card” is not like playing the “Get out of Jail Free” card in Monopoly. It’s still an attempt to label groups as better and worse.

        3. We aren’t prosecuting anybody, you are trying to act as if we are. Slavery was theft of labor. It’s a perfectly simple sentence. If you can define it some other way, go for it.

      • Flossie

        1. Blue, Anger / resentment? You flatter yourself. I don’t waste all that on a comment forum. LOL. I put certain words in caps to hopefully help you comprehend my point. It didn’t work. You totally skipped over my point and went into your lecture….again.

      • Blue

        Your post makes zero sense. I tried to phrase it as politely as I could. I don’t skip over any of your “points”, I address them.

        I keep giving you the link to FBI statistics, you keep insisting that a misinterpretation of Holder’s testimony trumps years of FBI stats. Holder responds to some hypothetical situations posed by Sessions. What Holder says is then put through some kind of wingnut translator and turned into “whites aren’t protected by hate crimes laws”. It’s false, it’s dumb, and it’s damaging to the nation.

      • Flossie

        You can’t misinterpret a video. Anyone can try and put “their” spin on the testimony with misinterpretation, but it is what it is.

        FBI crime statistics had nothing to do with my comment.

        Are you are saying “protected class” does not exist?
        If it doesn’t exist, why is “protected class” included in legislation?

        In United States Federal anti-discrimination law, a protected class is a characteristic of a person which cannot be targeted for discrimination. The following characteristics are considered “Protected Classes” by Federal law: Race – Civil Rights Act of 1964. Color – Civil Rights Act of 1964.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class

      • Blue

        The FBI is arresting people for anti-white hate crimes. Those people are being prosecuted. If there are no anti-white hate crimes, then how do you explain the FBI stats to yourself? How do you explain these? Look at these links where anti-white hate crimes are reported.

        http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/07/08/police-will-seek-hate-crime-charges-fountain-square-attack/29867779/

        http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/30/anti-white-hate-crime-being-investigated-in-cincinnati/

        http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20150226/sugar-hill/social-services-worker-makes-anti-white-slurs-bashes-womans-head-nypd

        http://defund.com/fck-white-people-hate-crime-suspect-blames-friends-for-anti-white-attacks/

        Protected classes refer to anti-discrimination laws. You are mixing up anti-discrimination laws with hate crimes laws. Hate crimes are CRIMES like assault and murder. The Civil Rights Act refers to discrimination.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class

        Can some one misinterpret a video? Obviously they can. If you’ve got a quote from Holder that you are relying on, cut it from the transcript and post.

      • Flossie

        For reporting purposes, it does not matter whether or not the perpetrators of the crime were ever charged with a hate crime, it just matters if it was reported as one.
        http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jewish-center-shootings

        I think the above excerpt makes my point:
        Even in the FBI Statistics, perpetrators may have NEVER been charged with a “hate crime”. You can be charged with assault, etc. brought on by hate, but NOT be charged with a “hate crime”. It’s a SEPARATE CHARGE.

        One of YOUR own links is a good example of this:
        http://defund.com/fck-white-people-hate-crime-suspect-blames-friends-for-anti-white-attacks/
        “Ross is charged with assault, criminal possession of a weapon, and reckless endangerment. Because of the alleged racial statements, the incident is being treated as a hate crime”.
        (it was treated as a hate crime, BUT he wasn’t charged with one)

        I remember when the “knockout Game” attacks were all over the news. Most of the attacks involved black men targeting white victims and none of the attacks triggered Federal charges or Federal involvement by the Justice Dept. After many of these attacks were reported in the media. The news broke that US AG Holder had indicted an attacker in one of these assaults and he was being charged with a “hate crime”. The following day it was revealed that the person charged with the hate crime was the ONLY known instance among about 100 cases in which the attacker was white and the victim was black.
        Why was this attack charged as a hate crime?
        The Hate-Crime statute was applied in this singular case.

        Hate crime statutes were in place for years before the first non-white was charged under the statute. The brown community exploded in outrage, complaining that it is illegal for a brown American to commit a hate crime due to protected class status.

        The US has a legal double-standard on this type of crime and the crime reporting. There is no better example of this behavior than after the Trayvon Martin shooting. There are too many to list, but here is a sampling of a few black on white crimes the mainstream media did not report on.
        February 27, the day after the Martin shooting, 2 black males in Detroit abducted and killed a white couple who was found bound, shot and burned beyond recognition in an alley.
        February 28, in Kansas City, MO, two black teens attacked a 13-year-old white boy on his front porch, they poured gasoline on him and set him on fire saying “You get what you deserve white boy!”
        March 14, a 20-year-old black man broke into the home of Bob and Nancy Straight in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He raped the 85-year-old Mrs. Straight and beat her to death. He shot 90-year-old Mr. Straight in the face with a pellet gun and broke his jaw and ribs. He died several days later. He stole $200, a TV set and a Dodge Neon.
        April 1, in Jackson, Mississippi, a 31-year-old black man broke into a house to rob it, found a white woman inside and forced her to lie on the floor with a blanket over her head as he shot her in the of the head, execution-style.
        April 5, in Tunica, Mississippi, a 34-year-old black man checked into a hotel with his pregnant 25-year-old white girlfriend and their one-year-old child. The next day the woman was found dead on the floor mutilated as was the one-year-old child.
        April 15, in Las Vegas, a 22-year-old black man raped a 38-year-old white woman and her 10-year-old daughter. He then killed them with a hammer.
        There were also a number of flash mob attacks across the country where anywhere from half a dozen to as many as a hundred blacks gang up on innocent people and beat them senseless. In at least 12 cases, the anti whites cited revenge for the shooting of Martin.

      • Blue

        Flossie said:For reporting purposes, it does not matter whether or not the perpetrators of the crime were ever charged with a hate crime, it just matters if it was reported as one.

        Blue said: Well, no. You can’t CHARGE someone with something unless it’s a CRIME. As you clearly now realize, “anti-white” bias can result in hate crimes charges for an offender.

        Because we are talking about intent, it must be clear that the reason for the crime was bias. Therefore, many incidents where the race, gender, or religion of the offender differs from that of the victim are not classified as hate crimes.

        That is what Holder was saying, and what Rush and his ilk did not understand, or pretended not to understand.

      • Flossie

        Typical ….you totally ignore anything that comes close to you being wrong and totally magnify anything that comes close to you being correct. You just can’t seem to make ONE comment without a snarky insult to finish it off.

        The FBI’s statistics include crimes that were reported as hate crimes… it doesn’t always mean that the person was CHARGED with a hate crime, the person may have been charged with assault. I know you understand that, you just aren’t willing to admit it.

        Just like the example you gave…..the person wasn’t actually charged with a hate crime.

      • Blue

        There’s nothing to ignore, this is a slam dunk. You simply were wrong. It happens to everyone. Instead of admitting that you were mistaken, you move the goal posts.

        As you can see from the FBI stats, anti-white bias is a part of the hate crime law. Is it POSSIBLE that sometimes someone is CHARGED but not CONVICTED? Well, DUH, YES. That is the case with every single arrest. Not everyone who is arrested is convicted. The fact remains that hate crimes laws cover everyone. White, black, Asian, Latino, Sikh, Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Baptist, atheist, gay, or straight.

        The bias must be proven in court as a part of the crime. That’s what Holder was trying to get across to Sessions.

      • Flossie

        I just assumed you read the Hate Crime Statute (previous link provided) I am providing another link for you to do so…hopefully you will believe this one, it is the U S Department of Justice.

        I wasn’t talking about being charged and not convicted – I was talking about NOT being charged at all. Obviously if you are never charged with the ADDITIONAL hate crime statute, you will not be convicted. I just assumed you would understand that concept.

        I also assumed you understood the Hate Crime Statute is a separate and additional charge, not to be confused with the anti-bias charge you keep discussing.

        http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/crm/matthewshepard.php

        Also, on the above link at the U S Department of Justice, you will notice the following additional links:

        1.) “Remarks by the President at Reception Commemorating the Enactment of the Hate Crimes Prevention Act”

        2.) “Testimony of Attorney General Eric H. Holder, Jr. before the Senate Judiciary Committee (PDF)” – pay close attention to his explanation of protected class.

      • Blue

        The FBI statistic show that people are charged with hate crimes related to anti-white bias.

        I have given you links to years that fell after 2009.

        Pay close attention to this:

        1. Hate crimes laws apply to everyone, including white victims.

        2. If you have a quote from Holder that says that white people are not protected, post it.

      • soctal

        Talk about playing the victim, you kind loves playing the victim, all the while you castigate black people for doing so. You cant even stay on topic long enough to start whining.

      • Flossie

        Soctal likes to make these broad sweeping statements to wag your finger at anyone who dares speak of reality. I assume you meant “your kind” ….. and just who is my kind?
        I didn’t have a topic …. I was responding to the previous comment from your brother Blue. If you are going to follow along, you should read the words.

      • JaNay

        I read some of his political articles and although he hides it very well, his racism lives just beneath the surface.

      • Texasproud

        What you speak is actually true…

      • Mark Deviney

        lincoln along with sherman and grant are war criminals. if american soldiers did what they did, burn entire towns, pillage,murder[civilians,women and children] in the middle east wars today , they’d be tried as war criminals. i refuse to carry a $5 bill today.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        yet you look past southern war criminals…. What does it feel like to hate your country so much? Especially since you know nobody that was there, or impacted in the least and you were at least 100 years from ever being an itch in your daddy’s pants. Your blind hatred is baffling…..

      • Steven Bradley

        Are you a Civil War apologist?

      • Flossie

        The irony of all the flag uproar is that this was not the Confederate Flag. This was the “Northern Virginia Battle Flag” most associated with Robert E. Lee, who considered slavery to be a sin.
        Lee freed all of his inherited Custis’ slaves; his wife and her mother worked tirelessly to liberate slaves and abolish slavery; his wife and daughter successfully set up an illegal school for slaves on the Arlington plantation.

        In his own words:
        In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. Robert E. Lee, to Mary Anna Lee, December 27, 1856

      • JaNay

        You give the flag too much power.

      • soctal

        Its a distinction without difference. First of all, you are assuming that most black people, at least the ones who enter these conversations dont know about black people owning slaves.
        This is a false assumption.
        We know more that you do, remember that. You like to say it assuming that somehow that stops the discussion or changes it somehow…
        It doesnt.
        Free blacks were 3% of the upper South and 1% of the lower South, of that, 30% of that 3 and 1 percent owned slaves, and of those, an unknown percentages were free blacks who owned family members who because of the fucked up laws down south, could not free family members-I would not count those.

        There were free blacks who owned slaves for purely exploitive reasons like white slave owners, but they would have been less than 1percent of the total population in the upper South and less than a third of a percent in the lower South. Also groups like the Cherokee owned slaves, there were said to be blacks who walked the trail of tears in chains.
        These kind of black slave owners are comparable to French collaborators in Vinchy France, traitors to their country and their race, fighting to keep their own people enslaved. They should have been executed after the war.
        All of that merely shows that white South including a few percent of black people and the cherokee fought to keep 95 percent of black people enslaved, all symbolized by the da*n flags.

      • Brenda Turner

        They should not bear the full brunt of criticism from ya’ll. The South was setting free slaves way before the North did.

      • Matt Mtz

        Again, irrelevant. The Confederate States fought in order to maintain the institution of slavery. White slaves, black slave owners, Lincoln owning slaves, etc… all of that does not change that.

      • Flossie

        As wrong as it was, slavery was legal at that time in history and a common practice all over the world.

        The human race has made mistakes for centuries.

        In Mauritania slavery was only made a punishable offense in 2007.
        Where was the condemnation and outrage for slavery in our modern times?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        The north isn’t celebrating racism and slavery with the use of the rebel surrender flag like the south STILL is, “ya’ll”.

      • Flossie

        It was the Northern Virginia Battle flag mostly associated with Robert E. Lee who freed all of his inherited slaves because he felt slavery was a sin, but don’t let the facts get in your way.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        keep searching, eventually you will find something to make yourself feel better.

      • Republicae

        No, slavery was not ok, either in the South or in the North, not only did blacks and whites own slaves, but also there were thousands of Native Americans living in the South and border States that owned slaves. Slavery was not simply a white institution. Ulysses S. Grant owned slaves and didn’t free them until after the war when forced to by the 13th Amendment. William Tecumseh Sherman owned slaves. In fact many of the Union leaders owned slaves. Lincoln inherited slaves from his father in law and also conveniently used slave labor to finish the Capitol Dome.

      • Matt Mtz

        You will receive no argument from me regarding what you have just said. Although I did not look it up and I do not know the history off the top of my head, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that all of it is true.

      • RealVoiceOfReason

        No, I think that what most people are realizing is that everyone had a hand in it, so stop blaming one side and mental issue on a flag.

      • Matt Mtz

        You don’t get it. This isn’t about who owned slaves, who condoned it, or who started slavery. This about who fought to preserve slavery when society started to realize slavery was wrong.

      • qu4ttro

        The slaves they were sold were sold to them by fellow blacks… Just another point to add to the discussion.

      • Anthony Apimpnamedbizmark Henr

        Let me share some real history unlike slavery that was practice in Europe, slavery in Africa was a way of integrating conquered people into a new society. So when one takes over an area, because there was not killing on the scale as in Europe, the population was kept as slaves to be reintegrated into the conquerors’ or sold as slaves so they become someone else problem.
        Many slaves even rose to high positions in the empire of their
        conquerors and there are three cases where former slaves were made kings
        of their own satellite states.
        Had they known that slavery was different from the way where they practice it I doubt the slave trade would have continued.

      • Rebe Lee

        The Barbary slave trade had fuck all to do with integration, and the slaves that the Spanish bought for the Atlantic slave trade was the result of tribal rivalry..But you keep pretending blacks owning slaves was less disgusting than when whites did it.

      • Sillycibin

        Who cares what blacks did? The South owned slaves, it was wrong, they wouldn’t stop, they got their ass kicked, the North won, the Union flag flies over this country, and the confederate flag can go in the dust bin of failed ideologies.

      • Rebe Lee

        If American slavery can still be held over white people’s heads, than Berbery slavery can still be held over black people’s heads. You can’t have it both ways. Both groups owned masses of slaves of another race. But only one is still being shamed for it.

        The North owned slaves too. Until 40 years after the end of Southern slavery. Pick up a history book some time. The war was mostly over the 40% tariffs the North was enforcing on the South. The war was over money. At the point the South seceded, they were paying 70% of the Union’s taxes. The North was acting like a dictator. Even Northern states were trying, or at least threatnening, to secede from the Union long before the South did it. The Union was being held together by a thread at that point.
        The North still hates us vehemently. The ignorance and hatred I’ve heard from Northerners who have never even been to the South, and base their opinions on horseshit and stereotypes, is ridiculous. If the North hasn’t gotten over it, why should we..
        Lastly, wiping out any traces of a particular history is just plain stupid. It accomplishes absolutely nothing.

      • Dee

        Correct me if I’m wrong but …The tariff’s were put in place to protect the american economy. Cheap products and labor abroad are STILL to this day, killing our economy!! A tariff is a tax on imports!! Duh! The south used a lot of importsimports (Not very smart) including slave trade! Which they wanted so they could have free labor! The rest of the country was NOT importing as much so OBVIOUSLY the Federal governments income came mostly from the southern states. Talk about smoke and mirrors! The Confederacy is nothing but a bunch of greedy white supremacists who turned against their own freak’n country. Don’ t just ban the flag, burn it! And for the record … We don’t hate the south. We hate the Confederates fight centuries ago to uphold slavery.

      • Rebe Lee

        You are, in fact, wrong. Tariffs predated the secession.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_1833
        Which nullifies the majority of your arguement. Especially since many Northern states were also threatening the same, even before the South did. But, you know, history…pesky little thing.

        The Union transported slaves. No slave was transported on a Southern ship. While the Confederacy was seating the first Native Americans in their Congress, Lincoln was slaughtering them in their sleep in a land grab, and holding an address at the White House for free blacks to tell them he doesn’t like them and wants to send them all back to Africa.
        And for the record, maybe you don’t, but many yankees do vehemently hate the South and all white Southerners.

      • Flossie

        The South funded the Union Government for over 30 years before secession. The tariffs were the reason the south seceded.
        Yankee denial.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        are you retarded? Seriously. Be honest.

      • Flossie

        You shouldn’t be in this conversation if you don’t know history.

        Charles Adams states in his book For Good and Evil: The Impact of Taxes on the Course of Civilization, “…the South paid about three-quarters of all federal taxes, most of which were spent in the North.”

        1828 and 1832, Congress passed tariffs to benefit northern interests.
        John C. Calhoun declared the Federal Tariff Law unjust.
        President Andrew Jackson vowed to militarily force the payment of the tariffs.

        Just so we are clear….. you think the south had no problem with these tariffs?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        I can’t say it any clearer. YOU ARE RETARDED. If you believe anything you took the time to type, there is no hope for you. Go shoot yourself. Thanks in advance.

      • Flossie

        lol….you don’t believe history? Maybe that’s your problem.
        Again, you just shot yourself in the foot military man.
        Retired Army would NEVER tell someone to “go shoot yourself”.
        Busted again.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        I just did tell someone to “go shoot yourself”. So, you are wrong.

      • Flossie

        If I was wrong you wouldn’t be so mad.
        Hey…. have you been to the Creeayshun Museum?

      • Nihilist000

        you nazi pigs are fully cognizant of the fact that the transportation of slaves to the US was outlawed in in 1808 by Congress and you klanpigs continued to smuggle black slaves in the south anyways. you fucking worthless neo-nazi stormfronter historical revisionist racist trolls are perfect republican poster boys though so continue posting.

      • Flossie

        The tariff was import AND export. The South paid 87% of taxes for the Union Government for 30 years. The South funded the industrialization of the North and no tax was spent for betterment of the South. The South was reduced to slave state status by the North.
        The North had no problem with slavery until the South got tired of funding the Union’s government and the North.
        For the record…. the North were the greedy hypocrites that first introduced slavery to the South and maintained slavery long after the Emancipation Proclamation. When did NJ abolish slavery?

      • JaNay

        The Southern States paid heavy IMPORT and EXPORT Tariffs imposed by the Union Government.
        The South pretty much built the North by funding it’s industrialization.
        How does that make them greedy?

      • Freda Channell Lyons

        Rene give it up. The people who agree with the moron who wrote this drivel is obviously research challenged and too stupid to look anything up for themselves. They are just parroting what they’ve heard others say. They are as dumb as a can of corn.

      • Nihilist000

        this, “north owned slaves 40 years after the end of southern slavery” neo-nazi historical revisionism exposes you as a klansmen bigot fuckhead.

      • Shane Bush

        “The South owned slaves, it was wrong,” And so did the north.But of course all we hear about is the southern slave owners.You do know that slavery has been around for thousands of years?Is enslaving any race of people ok?Does it matter what race they are?I would have to say no.But the fact is that in american schools they only slavery that is taught is black slavery.I find this interesting considering the Irish were slaves long before blacks.

      • Sillycibin

        Yeah, the some areas of the North allowed the owning of slaves. Not all, and there was a powerful abolitionist movement sweeping through the north leading up to the civil war that was outlawing slavery in more and more areas. The southern elite saw it and didn’t like it. Didn’t like the underground railroad neither.

      • gingerail

        Maybe because it is more recent…there are people still alive who were directly related to those that were affected by slavery.
        I am Irish but no one in my family has mentioned that any of our relatives were slaves…but many black Americans have slave histories. If there was a flag that flew and represented the slavery of the Irish, it would not be welcomed and protected by me.

      • Read the lost history of the Irish slaves

      • Brandon Johnson

        I am not a hateful person, I am just telling you the facts of that case. Since I was banned from the site for my views, I have to find where else you posted to reply. He pulled her out of the car because she was going to be under arrest for not complying with a police order. Then she did all the other stuff which changed what he was arresting her for. He’s not going to pile on charges when resisting and assault mean you didn’t comply. Yes, there are unfortunately many people who feel like you, but most don’t. He is at fault for asking her what was wrong, seriously? She didn’t have to step outside the car to sign the warning, she had already refused to sign it several times. Everything the cop did was by the book except for not explaining why he was pulling her out. Im sorry you feel the was you do, but it doesn’t change the facts.

      • Boyd Timothy Babcock

        They did not exactly kick ass, Granada was an ass kicking, The north lost a lot of men, 360,000 men were lost in the war on the North, the south won many battles. They won the first and the last battle. Put this with the fact that they had a much smaller pool of men to draw from then the north and not much in the way of industrial infrastructure they were an agrarian culture. Idiots like you know nothing of your history and past, you reduce things down to a 3 second sound bite that is the extent of your attention span. When you actually learn history the truth is much more blurred then your ridiculous north good south bad leftist rant. Its shows you to be the unintelligent emotional idiot that most of the left is.

      • Sillycibin

        Sorry, South bad, very bad,. Slavery is one of the greatest evils of human history. Yeah, I know, most southerners who fought didn’t own slaves. And most Nazis who fought never killed a jew. Still fought for a pretty shitty side.

      • Boyd Timothy Babcock

        First off the First flag that slavery was under was the American flag. Second your trying to create a demon where non exists and third your trying to fight a war that ended over 150 years ago. You libtards are not happy unless your chaining yourself to some tree or protesting something. Your lives are so boring that you have to find some reason to live by protest. Get a life you idiot.

      • Barry Lawton

        Correction, the first flag/flags were the Spanish, the British, and the Netherlands. Slavery was a profit industry before we fought for our independence. Under the Articles of Confederation slavery was permitted but each state was given the power to decide if it were for or against slave holding. In 1781 when the Constitution was ratified the argument over slavery became more and more heated culminating in the comprise of 1858. From this point on the Southern states, thought their rights to hold and own slaves was being taken away. South Carolina took it upon themselves to file secession documents and try and capture a Union fort off the coast and fired the first shot on Fort Sumpter.

      • Truth Offends Liars

        Karl Marx (The father of Communism) Congratulated Abraham Lincoln For Pretending The Civil War Was About Slavery

        Karl Marx to Abraham Lincoln:

        We congratulate the American people upon your re-election by a large majority. If resistance to the Slave Power was the reserved watchword of your first election, the triumphant war cry of your re-election is Death to Slavery”

        The Communist & Socialists guided Lincoln into the “Civil war”, which was just a Communist/Socialist Revolution that the southerners were fighting against.

        Deal with THAT Republicans “Conservatives”.

      • Sillycibin

        Wow, I’m leftist? You don’t even know me dumbass. I’m libertarian mostly. Hate unions, hate government intrusion. But please don’t try and call me leftist because I’m intelligent, rational, and stand up against historical revisionism with selective cherry picking and embelishment of the past.

      • Truth Offends Liars

        “libertarian mostly. Hate unions, hate government intrusion”

        LOL both sides are owned by the Federal AKA ZOG Government Rothschild etc….Abe WAS a socialist, and a Rothschild. Democracy is an illusion for the sheep.

      • Joann Lear

        Idiots like us are taught History in class on a daily basis for school from 3rd thru high school. So history is a subject well learned here. It’s idiots like YOU THAT THINK THEY KNOW OUR HISTORY! LINCOLN DIDN’T WANT THE U S DIVIDED SO HE STARTED THE WAR . MY FAMILY WERE DIRT POOR FARMERS. NO SLAVES DID OUR OWN WORK. We just did not allow a Yankee to come along and take what was ours so yes we fought and died. Not for slavery but for what was ours not Lincolns or his armys.

      • U must be speaking of the “SECOND WAR OF INDEPENDENCE”?

      • Truth Offends Liars

        Abe was a Socialist, and a Rothschild. His buddy Karl Marx the father of communism even wrote him a letter thanking him for killing our southern ancestors, and blaming it on slavery etc.

      • Dustin Henry

        No. It’s idiots like you for believing the lies you were taught in school. Do your research. If you insist on continuing this baseless slandering of my ancestors, I’ll send you so much literature on the truth that it’ll make your head spin. If you still haven’t seen the truth after that, then you’re nothing but a stubborn mule with a thick skull.

      • The south did well until the union soldiers were ORDERED to rape and murder women and children while burning their homes! The north would have never believed this story would be told world wide!

      • Mathew Hastings

        Thank you, these kids are way to damn ignorant.

      • Truth Offends Liars

        The north also owned slaves, and now has enslaved all of America. END THE FED!

      • Arthur Facteau

        That war was about Federal overreach, learn your history.

      • Darla

        Not very bright are you? Only an uneducated person like yourself would come back with an idle sentence in retaliation to the topic. Try learning your history and actually posting some facts…

      • Dustin Henry

        Failed ideology of a country ran by the people instead of an opressive government. More atrocities have been committed under the American flag than will ever be committed under the Confederate flag. Also, 95% of slaves were owned by the north. Also, the flag that flew high and proud over the slave ships? If you guessed the American flag then you are correct. Also, the war started over a 47% tax on all southern goods. Get your facts straight before slandering my heritage.

      • JJ truth

        Like the drug trade, African slavery was fueled by a massive, unsatiable demand in Europe & the Americas. African tribal slavery was also used as a way for a conquering tribe to boost its numbers & strength. Some of the warring tribes made truces & combined royal bloodlines as peace treaties. African or Native American tribes having disputes which lead to tribal wars doesn’t justify mass industrial slavery. European demand for African slavery was stripping an entire continent of its people. The drop in the bucket which represented African tribal slavery pales in comparison to the mass industrialized European enslavement of Africans. Europe used African blacks to build its cities, dams, roads, tame its rivers and clear its forests, planting & harvesting its crops. European slavery robbed Africans of their languages, cultural identities, their families and names. Europeans bred enslaved Africans akin horses, sheep & cattle creating genetic diseases & mutations in them and their descendants. There is no comparison between African tribal slavery vs. mass European African enslavement. Besides when tribal leaders refused to give whites the land & the slaves they demanded. They too were overpowered, shot dead and their tribes enslaved by force. Once European learned the routes they built forts, and took African slaves & lands force w/o the permission of African tribal lords. Like Native Americans, African tribal leaders ordered European whites from African lands wars broke out and many were slaughtered or enslaved as African colonies.

      • Rebe Lee

        Nice revising of history there…The Barbary slave trade enslaved over 1.5 million whites alone, not including the number of other races they enslvaed, including other Africans. It had nothing to do with tribal warfare, the slaves were used for sex and labor just like the Atlantic slave trade. And was wide spread, taking slaves from any region in the world they travelled to. They did everything that was done during the Atlantic slave trade. Whats more, about 375k slaves were sent to what is now the United States. Most were sent elsewhere in the world.

      • Rebe Lee

        Also, the slaves were bought, not conquered. Whites didn’t go into Africa and strip the continent of it’s people and enslave everyone..They’d go make trade deals to purchase already enslaved blacks (enslaved before whites came there looking for slaves..in fact Portugal went there to grow sugar, and hire cheap labor, but no one wanted the job, only then did they purchase slaves from Africans, for the labor). Oh and Native Americans…..also bought/owned slaves. Lots of them. For labor. Not some convoluted idea of trying to free them.

      • Nihilist000

        As Leopold’s Ghost clearly lines out, the evidence that you white nazi pigs kidnapped blacks is overwhelming, the black slave-seller you so like to puff up, the King of the Congo, Affonso, wrote a letter to King Joao of Portugal begging his Portuguese white traders to stop kidnapping his people because only white nazi pigs like you defined slavery as a permanent condition that stems from skin color instead of the temporary institution of forced labor captured in war that it was for every other race that practiced it, so you had no regard for fair trade or any other bullshit like that with blacks. So you pigs did, in fact, kidnap blacks from Africa because you define black people as being inferior to whites, you maybe traded at first, but this is not how you got most of them by any measure. Stop puffing up black complicity in the white theft of black bodies in Africa you neo-nazi klansmen shithead historical revisionist pig.

      • soctal

        white folks NEVER get that part! lol. They ONLY get BLACKS SOLD EACH OTHER INTO SLAVERY. One of the few things they care to know about Africa…smh.
        No matter though

      • Flossie

        African tribal leaders sold rival tribe members into slavery.
        Trying to excuse that by saying “if they had just known they would have been treated badly by the mean old white slavers, they wouldn’t have done it”, is just stupid. They sold them to slavers…. they didn’t care what happened to them. Black folks never get that part.
        It is what it is. No excuses.

      • Sillycibin

        What does that have to do with the Confederate flag and southern slaver? Slavery evil, period.

      • Flossie

        It was a response to the previous comment.
        “That black tribal leaders would have never sold each other to white slavers.”

      • Nihilist000

        your neo-nazi historical revisionism is apparent. Black leaders in Africa sold black slaves at the outset for an extremely limited time until your white pig ancestors starting kidnapping them and bypassing the black leaders altogether. Your racist neo-nazi revisionist attempts to pin slavery on black people when there’s evidence that you pigs engaged in kidnapping early on from King Affonso’s letter to King Joao begging him to call off his slave traders from kidnapping his people all the way back into the 16th century. you rotted white shitheads are neo-nazi pigfucking inbred sister/mother/grandmother fucking pieces of white trash.

      • Flossie

        You have made 17 comments under this screen name race baiting Troll. Trolls aren’t educated enough to have an intelligent conversation, that’s why they TROLL around baiting arguments.

        You need to read the thread of conversation before you speak and show your ignorance.
        White slave traders never entered into the interior of Africa to kidnap slaves, due to fear of disease, getting lost, etc.

      • RealVoiceOfReason

        Yeah, that doesn’t matter at all when your own ancestors thought so little of their own kind to sell them to Whitey. Doesn’t matter.

      • Nihilist000

        That you’re a libertarian, obv., exposes libertarianism as the racist piece of shit koch astroturf neo-nazi revisionist movement that it is. From your holocaust denial issues in Reason magazine to the current neo-nazi historical distortion that blacks sold blacks into slavery because of ethniciy, this is of course false because white nazi pigs like you established slavery as a a permanent condition based on race, while it was a temporary condition based on being captured in war for every other race that practiced it. This is, of course, extremely evident in King Affonso’s (the black slave-seller you nazis like to puff up) letter to King Joao of Portugal begging his white-just-like-you “traders” to stop kidnapping his people, which was a daily occurence, quite a stupendous feat when you consider they had to sail there using Renaissance ages crap ships.

      • Flossie

        African tribal leaders sold rival tribe members into slavery.
        Trying to excuse that by saying “if they had just known they would have been treated badly by the mean old white slavers, they wouldn’t have done it”, is just stupid. They sold them to slavers…. they didn’t care what happened to them. It is what it is. No excuses.

      • RealVoiceOfReason

        LOL!!! that is the proof that I need. People will make up anything to support their agenda. This is me laughing at you!!! I guess we had to kill the Indians to fertilize the ground before they could farm!! They integrated them into the soil!!! LOL!!!!

      • Darnel L. Williams

        Moses was born as a slave and was raised to be a king was he not? There were a few peeps in the Bible that were slaves before then Kings later… so I don’t think that part is made up..

      • Arthur Facteau

        Oh, horse pucky! Tribes were at war, hated each other, and kept those the managed to take in battle as slaves, used them as commodities, treated them like shit, worked them to death, and never gave a rats about them, they were the enemy. Get it right.

      • FACT

      • Republicae

        He also owned white slaves

      • Texasproud

        Yes his name was Anthony Johnson the first slave owner and yes he was black

      • Anthony Apimpnamedbizmark Henr

        He set the record straight alright…. So, what happened to blacks over the years to cause them to descend to the bottom of the social barrel … I mean from having white and black slaves to nothing

      • Flossie

        I am sure it is someone else’s fault right?

      • tjtull

        Set the record straight about what? Because you say a black owned slaves makes it…what, exactly? Right or still wrong…still worth fighting to abolish? Your argument is a distraction.

      • Proud Southerner

        I’m sorry I distracted you. In an earlier post I said slavery was not, is not and never will be ok. No other human being should ever enslave another. My point is the Confederate flag is not just about WHITE enslaving blacks like so many people are brainwashed into thinking. Should the Confederate flag fly in front of a government building? No. Should one be able to fly it on their property? Yes.

      • KD

        Do you even know how racist and stupid you sound? I doubt it, but I seriously wish you could know that most of the people reading your insane post are thinking “holy shit this asshole is a racist prick”.

      • Proud Southerner

        I suppose you’ve not seen my other posts. They clearly show I’m against ALL racism. Hate is clearly a destructive emotion. Human beings are equal in my eyes. I absolutely abhor racial vomiting from any human being. There is no room in this world for hate and racism but it is here nonetheless. I do not associate this flag with hate or racism. But merely a symbol or flag of the south. I do not believe slavery was, is and never will be OK and should NEVER be tolerated no matter what country is practicing it. I am trying to let people know that yes while it is true that slavery was an issue in the war, slavery alone was NOT the primary reason this war was fought. Hence, the Confederate battle flag was not a symbol of slavery (or hate as so many people have been brainwashed to believe) but it was primarily used on the battlefield for distinction of Southern forces. If people look at this flag and think it symbolises hate/racism then they need to see the American flag the same way. It flew over slavery LONG before the Southern Cross was even conceived. AND long after the war was over. I get many vicious, obscenity filled knee jerk attacks for my views on this historic flag. These childful obscene attacks not only display undisciplined emotions but also exhibit immaturity and leaves serious doubt to the validity of the information delivered to the recipient. I have found this to be very prevalent on this abundantly Liberal discussion platform. Although the Conservative sites are guilty of this too but to a lesser degree. I agree this flag should not fly on government property since it no longer represents any form of the United States government. It should be continually allowed to be displayed on private property though without violent consequences. I will, along with many many of my brethren, proudly fly or display this flag with respect to my Southern roots.

      • JJ truth

        Racist, revisionist history = insanity and clap trap which is more rubbish from white racists.

      • melissapruntykemp

        Do you know why? I bet you
        don’t since you left this comment as though it absolved whites of their murder. Blacks actively bought as many slaves as they could and left them listed as slaves on rolls to protect them from real slavery. They bought as many relatives and friends as possible. What they didn’t do was work them till they dropped dead in the fields, whip, flay, boil and rape them. Nor did they shackle them in torture devises or hang them upside down or cut off their penises to let them bleed out, nor did they cut babies out of their pregnant slaves’ stomachs. That’s what white people did. Try reading. It’s fundamental.

      • Brenda Turner

        You know what I abhor the idea of slavery of any human, any race and all have been slaves at one time or another in history, “to the winner goes the spoils”. The types of crimes you listed happen outside of slavery also. And many slaves were considered part of the families they served and were treated well. Some stayed with their families after being freed. But this doesn’t feed into the hysteria, so don’t mention it, it might add balance to the craziness.

      • Anthony Apimpnamedbizmark Henr

        Their families… how nice… could that family member sit with them at the dinner table…if they were so well treated I guess those niggers were ungrateful to want their freedom… damn ungrateful

      • Corbin

        Oh my God, how silly!! Slaves were a big investment, and served to reap crops and do the heavy lifting on plantations and large farms. If what you say is true, the slaveowners would have lost their investments in the slaves, by murdering and crippling them, as well as damaging their own farms and crops since they had mutilated and murdered their own field workers. I’m not saying there were not abuses or cruelty, or that slavery was morally right, but you make it sound like slaves were bought and sold just to torture and beat and rape. That is just hysterical over the top hyperbole.

      • Kathie McQueen

        My husbands 6th Great Grandfather was sent to America and sold as a slave on August 20, 1716. We are white. He was sold in Baltimore, Maryland. My problem is more that they are trying to erase History. What will be next? Will they decided to burn our books? Will they abolish our American Flag? It is all ready to the point we can not say a prayer in school but if your Muslim you have all the rights. Obama said in his book that he would bring us to our knees and he is running out of time. God help us.

      • Brenda Turner

        Oh no Kathie this can’t be right, what will happen to the only whites owned blacks argument. Oh well if they don’t want to hear it they won’t listen anyway. Sorry about what happened to your ancestor and all other slaves.

      • Devon Gronka

        First of all, where does this statistic come from? You can’t just throw numbers around.

        Second of all; whether there were black slave owners is irrelevant (and I know there were). What is relevant is that it was the decision of a European colonial court, in the case of Anthony Johnson and John Casor, that decided that Africans were not entitled to the same rights as Europeans, and could therefore be kept as property. It was white people who made the whole awful system legal, and it was black people who were oppressed by it; legally only black people could be denied their rights and kept as slaves. White people were indentured servants, which meant they were kept for 7 years and then freed, and were born free people. The son of a black person, on the other hand, was born a captive and would most likely go to his grave as one.

        All of this about black people owning slaves supposedly justifying slavery is about like saying “the holocaust was ok because a couple of Jewish people made money by smuggling people out.” It’s a ridiculous stance that doesn’t even begin to address the horrible atrocities committed.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        well said

      • Danielle Woods

        Most free blacks who “owned” slaves only did so on paper. It was the only way to secure the freedom of their relatives.

      • Anthony Apimpnamedbizmark Henr

        so 2 per cent of whites owned slaves but 30% free black own slaves…. this one is funny

      • soctal

        Free blacks were 3percent of the population in the upper south and ! percent of the population in the lower south.. that is 30 percent of 3 and 1 percent resprectively and of that percentage, were blacks that owned family members and had to keep them slaves because of the twisted laws in many southern states that would say blacks freed after these laws couldnt stay in their home states. Thank god the Confederacy Lost!

      • Darnel L. Williams

        Prove this little bit of info… where did you get that information?

      • KD

        Made up bullshit? I think so.

        Moreover, it shows how desperate you are. Logic 101: asserting an unrelated fact has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING on the validity of an argument.

        It doesn’t matter if Jesus owned slaves, it has no bearing on whether slave ownership is moral or not.

        So yeah, your a total moron.

      • Sillycibin

        What does that actually have to do with anything being discussed here? Such a terrible tactic. Just polluting discussion with odd facts not germane to the issue. Whether blacks ever owned slaves or not has nothing to do with the fact that Southern states allowed the owning of slaves and they rebelled when that right was threatened. And so a war between states ensued, North versus South. Again, what does a black person owning a slave have to do with the greater fact that ALL slavery by anyone is wrong and the war was fought over slavery?

      • Boyd Timothy Babcock

        This is the Truth you speak, the left is so dumbed down that they need things in 3 second sound bites to fit their emotional based thinking.

      • gman8336

        It is a complicated issue to gather information about but a small number of slaves were reportedly “owned” by Blacks to protect them. There are reports of some free Blacks that had servant that were classified as slaves. This was a different situation.

      • JJ truth

        Time for your meds and the straight jacket. This discussion has been too much for you. Good riddance to rubbish (meaning your post is utter rubbish). Bye, bye.

      • Nihilist000

        the neo-nazi level of revisionism your expressing is a good crystallization of republicanism. There were never white slaves, you neo-nazi klansmen shithead.

      • Flossie

        My comment was in response to Ellen H.’s previous comment stating:
        “I’ve read several secessionist documents and ALL of them mention the right to own slaves as the main reason for seceding”.
        My comment was meant to put the number of slave owners into perspective. There was no intent to minimize slavery or racism.
        Slavery was an accepted practice all over the world at that time in history. America did not invent slavery – it was merely a participant for a short period of time.

      • Talkingtree

        Yes, I understood that . . ..I was just putting in perspective how the wealthy minority are often the ones calling the shots for everyone and convincing them it’s in their best interest.

      • Flossie

        It’s the same around the world. England is a grand example as well.

      • Corbin

        Well, a large Army invading your state bent on forcing you to do something will convince you its in your best interests to take up arms and repel the boarders, despite the politics.

      • Republicae

        The Confederate Battle Flag is of far less concern to me than the growing “Cultural Revolution” that seeks to wipe away our history by calling for the removal of monuments, renaming parks, removing all things Confederate. It is truly sad that so many associate the Confederacy alone with racism and yet they are completely ignorant with the ardent racism and sheer hatred of the North against the black race during that period and the Union Leadership, including Lincoln.

        If our Confederate history is being destroyed because of such ignorance of history then they need to be aware that perhaps they should look at every thing Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant, William Tecumseh Sherman and numerous others of whom many were slave owners, white supremacists and haters of blacks. Shall they also call for the dismantling of the Lincoln Memorial because Lincoln was not only a racist, but a radical who sought to totally cleanse this country of the entire black race both free and bond. Few know that Lincoln awarded one of his friends, Hinton Rowan Helper, with a Consulate position for his help with his election. Hinton Helper, in his book, admired by Lincoln, entitled The Negro in Negroland, called for the complete extermination of the black race, or as he and Lincoln referred them as mongrels, a vulgar and inferior race.

        Few know that when asked what was to become of the slaves after they were freed he said: “let them pig-root or perish”, yes that was the attitude of the man that so many hold on high esteem for being The Great Emancipator, and yet when you read his writings you find a truly horrible person who had such a guttural hatred for the black race that he wanted to wipe them from the shores of this country. On the other hand few know that Jefferson Davis opposed Lincoln’s plan for deportation and wanted those held in slavery to be prepared for freedom and to become a part of society.

        Few know that after the war, that the South suffered horribly, with nearly 25% of the Southern black race perishing from starvation and disease…where were their “liberators” then, fortunately both black and white Southerners stood by each other and helped each other through that horrible time.

        Without doubt, even fewer know that Nathan Bedford Forest, yes the man that started the original Ku Klux Klan of which originally there were also Black Chapters, after the war not only sought to have those former slaves stay in the South and become a part of Southern Society, but also sought and lobbied immigrants from Africa to come to the South settle.

        So many are so ignorant of history that they are herded into a mentality that rarely will consider the truth that has been hidden from them by omission of facts

      • Ulrike Weber

        I would like to know how a person hanging from a tree can still be a part of the Southern Society? Too bad Mr. Forest isn’t here to explain it…

      • Corbin

        Articulately said, but I am afraid that accurate facts in this atmosphere are essentially pearls before swine with the glut of historical ignorance displayed in so many places in recent days. It is almost as though there is some dull pride in having a complete lack of knowledge of US history in general, and the US Civil War in particular.

      • Vincent Mcelroy

        The main thing you are missing is, after the war Southerners were treated worse than the slaves were by the North!
        The Northern Army destroyed all of the Homes and businesses of the South that they could! They were mercenaries! not soldiers! They starved women and children made them watch while they burned their homes, raped pillaged and murdered! Don’t act like the North were heroes for freeing the slaves, it was all about money, nothing more!

      • Mr.Conservative

        I live in a small county in North Carolina and in this county there were 101 slave owners and they just so happen to be black There were white owners also but idiots won’t except that there were lack owners as well.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        so do you see a lot of black people harkening back to those days when people owned any person as a piece of property? You are a total lunatic attempting to justify your racist views. We get it. Go crawl back under your rock

      • John

        30% of free blacks in American owned slaves, including white and black slaves. How about you get out from under your rock you uneducated moron.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        what percentage of slaves were white? You racists will go to any length to make yourself feel good about hating black people.

      • Mr.Conservative

        First listen and listen good I don’t have to justify my racist views. You see the word racist doesn’t mean a thing you liberal SOBs have used it so much it is meaningless. If you really care about the people that were slaves and blacks why do you support the party that keep these people as slaves. The liberal democrats are still keeping most of them and also whites as slaves but today they don’t make them work the fields to keep the in power today all they have to do is vote democratic to keep them in power and you being a liberal you are one of todays owners. Don’t it make you feel great to be one of todays slave owners? I know what’s bouncing around between those big ears of yours (democrats don’t own slaves) yes they do with all the freebies. What do the democratic candidate offer the poor people nothing they scare them (The republicans will kill S/S they’re going to take your food stamps they going to take your medicare) this is the crap liberals offer the people.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        you are such a complete idiot, I don’t even care to start with you. Slaves? That word doesn’t mean what you think it means. Good luck with your mental gymnastics….douche

      • Solarflare The Magnificent

        Mr. Dipshitsky get a real name and show your picture you coward!

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        You are just one more racist shit-stain. Go back to Glenn Beck or Rush and get your ‘money shot’. BTW, nice photo…HAHA…and nice cat, you old racist douche bag. Go shout at kids walking by your house you old coot, but please don’t start shooting up any schools or churches like I’m sure you have an urge to do.

      • Solarflare The Magnificent

        That is not a cat you fucking dumbass turdface punk, go fuck your self. It is hollow shit like you that is killing the planet, you retard!

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        did it really take you two months to come up with that response? Hahahaha…Fucking nitwit….

      • Corbin

        And your rant of insults and vapid nothingness add less than zero to whatever it was you were trying to say. Try to make a point, and leave out the insults, and maybe someone would take you seriously rather than just some guy bent on attacking people for the fun of it.

      • Republicae

        If our Confederate history is being destroyed because of such ignorance of history then they need to be aware that perhaps they should look at every thing Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant, William Tecumseh Sherman and numerous others of whom many were slave owners, white supremacists and haters of blacks. Shall they also call for the dismantling of the Lincoln Memorial because Lincoln was not only a racist, but a radical who sought to totally cleanse this country of the entire black race both free and bond. Few know that Lincoln awarded one of his friends, Hinton Rowan Helper, with a Consulate position for his help with his election. Hinton Helper, in his book, admired by Lincoln, entitled The Negro in Negroland, called for the complete extermination of the black race, or as he and Lincoln referred them as mongrels, a vulgar and inferior race.

        Few know that when asked what was to become of the slaves after they were freed he said: “let them pig-root or perish”, yes that was the attitude of the man that so many hold on high esteem for being The Great Emancipator, and yet when you read his writings you find a truly horrible person who had such a guttural hatred for the black race that he wanted to wipe them from the shores of this country. On the other hand few know that Jefferson Davis opposed Lincoln’s plan for deportation and wanted those held in slavery to be prepared for freedom and to become a part of society.

        Few know that after the war, that the South suffered horribly, with nearly 25% of the Southern black race perishing from starvation and disease…where were their “liberators” then, fortunately both black and white Southerners stood by each other and helped each other through that horrible time.

        Without doubt, even fewer know that Nathan Bedford Forest, yes the man that started the original Ku Klux Klan of which originally there were also Black Chapters, after the war not only sought to have those former slaves stay in the South and become a part of Southern Society, but also sought and lobbied immigrants from Africa to come to the South settle.

        So many are so ignorant of history that they are herded into a mentality that rarely will consider the truth that has been hidden from them by omission of facts.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Are you really sitting here attempting to justify racism and terrorist acts in 2015 with that? Or maybe just hoping to change the subject and divert attention again? You know what? If you want to start judging Lincoln and everyone else while looking through a 21st century interpretation without also including his and the country’s evolution on the matter, let’s do it. There were a lot of horrific things done back then, but luckily we are slowing moving past those idiotic and hateful times. Southerners are just painfully slow (in more than one way) to embrace the 21st century, and this is about as good of a time as any to force some reality into their perspectives.

        To this racist loser flag you are here to defend; surely you know that the confederate/loser flag only started flying over the capital in SC in 1962, in opposition to the CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. That’s right, the ONLY reason it was ever raised was to serve as a symbol of opposition to civil rights…… let that sink in. Why is there even an argument that this thing shouldn’t be taken down and burned? It’s 2015 my man, whether you like it or not.

      • Flossie

        I didn’t read an attempt to justify racism, slavery or terrorist acts.
        You are a typical self absorbed hypocrite. Throwing out accusations of diversion and judging others and then you collectively insult and judge Southerners as being painfully slow (in more ways than one).
        Hypocrite much?
        The comments made about Lincoln were correct. It doesn’t make them any less correct because it doesn’t fit into your skewed view of the world. The Northern Virginia Battle flag has become the “new” racism bandwagon. This flag was a small part of history. Lincoln was also a part of history. You can’t delete the parts YOU want.

        That flag was relevant in a time in history……you can’t rewrite it. At the time slavery was an accepted practice all over the world. America Southerners didn’t invent slavery. In fact, whites were the first people to stop slavery in modern times, whereas slavery STILL continues in Africa to this day. In Mauritania slavery was only made a punishable offense in 2007.

        It only takes basic knowledge of history to understand the concept.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        my skewed view of the world? And I don’t think you understand what ‘hypocrisy’ means. Look it up please. The losers of the war were traitors to the United States of America. And they lost. Read the articles of confederation again champ. This flag in question was only relevant because it was erected in SC in 1962 as a symbol of South Carolina’s disagreement with the Civil Rights movement underway. The racists in charge in 1962 hated African Americans so much and were overtly in favor of segregation, that they started flying this treasonous flag again which points only to a racist world view. It had and still has nothing to do with ‘pride or heritage’ except to those who do not understand it’s history and have been fed a revisionist version of what this flag stands for. Why would you be proud of getting your ass kicked? They LOST. Again, how slow can you be? Maybe this was the beginning of the ‘everyone’s a winner’ generation. What don’t you painfully ignorant people understand? Or maybe you think its a symbol of “states rights” like some idiots pretend? Yeah, a states right to enslave black people…that is all it stands for.

        And what happens in Africa doesn’t absolve South Carolina and rednecks in my country from terrorism here. Why don’t you go move Africa if you love slavery and its symbols so much.

        Seriously, how much BS is being fed to you in these backwoods classrooms and racist parents? A flag that pays homage to losers and racists is not something for children to look up to and this idiotic kid in SC listened a little to closely to people like you, Rush, Beck and Fox. Stop with your mental gymnastics and come to grips with the mistakes of the past and get over them instead of idolizing or minimizing them.

      • Flossie

        By all definitions your are a hypocrite.
        As wrong as it was, slavery was legal at that time in history and a common practice all over the world.
        The Southern states funded the government and the North did not want to lose their southern backing.
        Much like today’s government…. it’s all about funding the “haves” by using the “have nots”.

        The human race has made mistakes for centuries.
        In Mauritania slavery was only made a punishable offense in 2007.
        Where was the condemnation and outrage for slavery in our modern times?

        You say: “the flag in question was only relevant because it was erected in SC in 1962 as a symbol of South Carolina’s disagreement with the Civil Rights movement underway”.

        The FLAG was a compromise to a “African American Monument” erected on the same state grounds. It depicts Jim Crow and all the shaming of slavery. Look it up. Since this was made in the same deal – shouldn’t this monument be removed as well?

        African Americans were offered the same deal as Native Americans.
        Land dedicated to them with their own schools, etc. in order to protect their “heritage” and “history”.
        They refused, because they wanted to be “equal” and marched for desegregation and equal rights.
        They got it and even more, including affirmative action, free education, free housing, the list goes on.
        It will never be enough.

        So who got their ass kicked? Who really LOST?

        And you say “a states right to enslave black people”….
        African Americans made the choice of “desegregation”.

        Why don’t YOU move to Africa? You can battle slavery all day long… where it STILL exists.

        In your own words: “stop with your mental gymnastics and come to grips with the mistakes of the past and get over them instead of idolizing or minimizing them.”

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Should the monument be removed? In a word, No. Move on.

        Who really lost? The treasonous southern states lost. They REALLY lost. What are you being fed on your right wing rag sites and from Rush Limbaugh? LOL

        What is so bad about the desire for equality? It sure sounds like you would have preferred to round everyone up who doesn’t look like you, and place them on a reservation of sorts in the middle of nowhere so you wouldn’t have to see them, share water fountains and pools, or go to school with them. The decision was made, go ahead and start dealing with it, and tell your right wing nut job friends to do the same.

        And by, “it will never be enough”, you are implying what? Care to make another sweeping generalization about an entire race of people?

        And please, we are talking about the USA and the people who live HERE. Stop rambling.

      • Flossie

        “Should the monument be removed?” – In a word, Yes.
        They should both be removed or both remain.
        If not, a lot of tax payer dollars is going to be wasted to remove them both.

        “Who really lost?” – We all did. I don’t get information from any site or Rush who…lol? It’s history…straight out of the past. You should read about it before making stupid comments.

        “What is so bad about the desire for equality?” –
        Everyone is equal and should be treated as such.
        Native Americans preserved their history and heritage by maintaining a separate school, leadership and governmental system on their lands. They can attend public schools if they choose to do so and many do.
        It is not a matter of “rounding everyone up”, it is a matter of preserving a way of life, history, heritage and customs for the generations to come.

        “u would have preferred to round everyone up who doesn’t look like you” – This happened with public housing and the creation of the American Ghettos. Your left wing nut jobs created that.

        “it will never be enough” – We can take down every flag in america; fire every police officer; sue every government entity and it will not change a thing as long as racism is taught to our young.

        “And please, we are talking about the USA and the people who live HERE” – YOU are the one who suggested moving to Africa… not me.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Lady, you are the one who continues to bring up other countries where slavery had recently been or is legal, not me. Seriously, do you get paid to make these moronic comments? You seem to be of the mindset of appeasing these racist rednecks for some reason, and I can’t fathom why. Take all the monuments down because some racist flag should be removed and boxed up? Really? If you can’t have your way, I guess you just want to take your ball and go home, huh? Is that what you children are all about today? Scorched earth strategy. If you can’t win, nobody wins, right? If the south loses, we all lose, right? Get over your silly obsession and grandiose ideas of what your heritiage is, because it really isn’t anything to be proud of, no matter what you read on the internet today.

        I also love your victim blaming strategy. Another very good one….you are and total loon and complete asshole. Go back to breitbart and ramble on there, douche.

      • Flossie

        Mr. Dipshitsky, that is exactly why you are a hypocrite, you are complaining about the history of slavery, BUT want everyone to get over their heritage…..lol.
        You are offended by the flag and slavery on your terms and by the bits and pieces you choose.
        If I am moronic… then don’t respond.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        did you say something? If so, I missed it.

      • Flossie

        Okay ….you can have the last word now…..lmao.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        as it should be.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        I have a question for you, oh defender of freedom for racists. If this flag represents only heritage and inclusiveness and a proud southern history, why don’t you EVER see a black person wearing it or honoring it? Correct me if I’m wrong, but there ARE African Americans in the south right? A lot. Why isn’t it a symbol of pride for them? White racist wear it and put it all over their vehicles, why don’t black southerners?

      • Corbin

        Yes, since the Confederate flag existed no where in the South between 1865 and 1962. Get a grip. You knock him by accusing him of looking at Lincoln through the prism of 21st Century thinking, while you do the same thing to the Southerners of the time as well. You are only here to sling invective and knock a history you have shown yourself to be painfully unaware of. If you are an example of the “enlightened modern fellow” I will happily remain a “racist bigot loser”. You are just embarrassing yourself here, and are sadly too unaware to see it.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        seriously, you don’t understand the issue at hand here due to your right wing bliinders. Why do you insist on replying to all of my posts with idiotic comments? Get a grip asshat.

      • Flossie

        You skipped history class a lot didn’t you?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        No.

      • Rick Derris

        I think it’s funny that you’re so racist that you claim that a bunch of slave owners were black, but don’t care that 100% of the slaves were black.

      • Mr.Conservative

        Rick I don’t give a damn what some idiot finds funny and it’s no claim it’s a fact that there were 101 black owners in Onslow county NC. As for calling me racist that s#!t don’t work with me you see I don’t give a damn if you call me a racist it’s not going to shut me up. There’s nothing I can do about what happen 200 years ago and personally I could care less. I never said slavery was right but there have been slaves of every color. If you really care about slaves from 200 years ago why aren’t
        you caring about the black and white slaves of the democratic party in 2015 it’s the same thing they are bought and paid for.

      • Liza Yellowbird

        Agreed. Blacks enslaved their own people when they had the opportunity.

      • Daniel McCrea

        According to us flags.org and confederate flags.org the “Southern Cross” was NOT the flag that represented the confederacy or the slavery that was the basis for cessation. THAT flag was the “Stars and Bars”. The standard was a circle of seven stars on a blue background. The field contained three stripes of red, white, and red. The stars represented the original seven confederate states.

        The Southern Cross was a battle flag. Not much time to consider slavery in battle. I am not sure about this but I think the Southern Cross became widely representative as racist when the KKK adopted it in the 1950s.

        If a person from the south claims to fly that flag as part of their heritage I am not going to question or admonish them. I am going to believe them. It’s not a question of naievety it’s a matter of respect. However, I don’t think I would fly a flag that held two meanings to the public if one was offensive. Again partly out of respect but more honestly cuz I’m chicken.

        Racism, slavery, classes are signs of the times. I don’t think we should think that way TODAY. But it was the overwhelming norm back in the day. Prior to the Civil War, 1854, the California Supreme Court found that a man could not be executed based upon the testimony of Chinese witnesses because they were “sub-human”. During his presidency Teddy Roosevelt believed the Japanese were “our Pacific Negroes”. He is on Mt. Rushmore!

        If you are racist shame on you! If you judge our ancestors by today’s morals shame on you too!

      • Flossie

        Look at you being all logical and owning it.
        Very Impressive.
        Careful now….some on here find that hard to understand.

      • Rick Derris

        I know you don’t care if you’re called a racist. That’s because you have the same mentality as Dylann Roof. I hope your daddy never buys you a gun.

      • Flossie

        I hope your mother takes the computer back.

      • Rick Derris

        Speaking of moms, why won’t yours leave my house?

      • Solarflare The Magnificent

        You do not have a house a–hole you live in a bunkhouse with the rest of them!

      • Corbin

        Really guy? Yo momma jokes? That’s it? I’m sorry I called you pathetic, you’re way beyond that.

      • Rick Derris

        Is that the best you could do?

      • Like I GiveAShitake

        Or materials for a bomb.

      • Mr.Conservative

        Rick first I didn’t fight in that war second I don’t mind being called a racist because being called one don’t make me one. Third I am a lot older than you and I have owned four gun for a very long time and none have killed anyone…yet. I do not approve of what Roof did but the flag did nothing in that church.

      • Rick Derris

        Of course you’re racist. That’s why you keep trying to whitewash history by blaming everything on black people.

      • Corbin

        Is insult all you have? Nothing meaningful or substantive? Pathetic.

      • Corbin

        You’re doing well, I’ve been fighting these dummies on here and on Breitbart for the last week, but the basically stupid and the historically bankrupt run very deep on here. Keep up the good fight.

      • Solarflare The Magnificent

        How do you know 100%? Were you there? Go back to sleep.

      • Rick Derris

        “Were you there?”

        I guess that means you can’t comment on any event that happened more than eight years ago.

      • Brenda Turner

        You are wrong.

      • Republicae

        No, they were not, throughout the 1600s and 1700s there were white slaves in this country. In Africa, there were over 1.5 million white slaves held by Africans.

      • Rick Derris

        The Irish slave trade is a myth. While some were forced into indentured servitude as punishment for crime, all except the most violent offenders were freed after a few years when their punishment had expired. Comparing it to the chattel slavery of black people is dishonest at best.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        LOL……you can’t be serious….LOL…Cleetus, are you reading Glenn Becks books again?

      • Corbin

        What a sad little man you must be. Do you get picked on a lot, so you come on here to vent your hurt feelings on people who you normally wouldn’t even look in the eye in person?

      • Corbin

        Not true. Google: indentured servitude. It was very common in the years before the War.

      • Rick Derris

        And it wasn’t chattel slavery. Next!

      • Liza Yellowbird

        There were also Cherokee slave owners. The Cherokee did their best to assimilate and even became successful and wealthy land owners, who owned slaves. And those same Cherokee were driven out on the Trail of Tears. Where’s the uproar over that? These Cherokee thought having slaves was the thing to do, and frankly, having slaves was a common thing among Native tribes. Not en masse, as on Plantations, but kidnapping members of other tribes and enslaving them was common practice.

      • Flossie

        America was stolen from Native Americans.

      • Corbin

        If it bothers you, buy a house and some land and give it to the Native American of your choice.

      • Flossie

        It appears you are the one bothered.

      • Anthony Apimpnamedbizmark Henr

        The reason why black had “slaves” was to ensure that they were not worked to death and tortured for minor infractions. They had to keep them on the books as slaves because his freedom papers didn’t matter he could be kidnapped and resold and his ‘freedom’ papers torn up. So having the false sense that they were slaves was one way to cheat the system.

      • Donnie Goodson

        The word slave comes from “slav” which were the first slaves of the world. The “Slavs” were (and are) European, very white and were taken by Muslims for labor.

      • Nicole Marie Henry

        If you’re statistic is correct do you have a rough estimate of how many slaves that 2% “owned”. NOW if you ask a black American citizen today how that 2% makes him/her feel about their heritage. What do you think they would say? Oh 2% pffft it’s only 2 out of every hundred white people pffft. Or why did 2% somehow get away with “owning a entire race of black American slaves? Why? Because MANY white people..way more than 2% believed this kind of behavior was ok… hence the fight to own another human. The right they were fighting for was to own humans. That is the heritage and it’s a discusting heritage at best.

      • Flossie

        The point of mentioning the statistic was to point out the percentage of slave owners in America compared to the rest of the world. This response was to a comment about not getting the “Southern Pride” thing of owning slaves. “Southern” is a culture and although slavery was a HISTORICAL part of it, slavery does not define the South. Slavery existed AND was legal all over the world at that time in history, even in the North and Midwest. Only the South is recognized and condemned and remembered for it. It is as if everyone else feels better because they can blame it on someone else and not feel any guilt.
        (Every colony in the New World was a slave colony. French Canada, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Cuba, Brazil. All of their systems were built upon slavery.)
        slavenorth.com
        The South did not fight simply to keep slaves.
        The Northern tariff existed for over 3 DECADES; it subsidized Northern industry and the Union Government and forced, by disproportionately taxing the South, to fund the central government. The South was being looted to pay for the North’s policies & Government. The battle began in 1828, with the “tariff of abomination” and thirty years later the South was paying 87 percent of federal tariff revenue.

        So the South did not secede to keep slavery alive.

        NO ONE is defending slavery. It was a deplorable institution and that is what everyone TODAY should be feeling. Slavery is a part of history, it doesn’t EXIST today, no one living was EVER a slave or slave owner. It’s time to stop brow beating an entire race for their forefathers’ actions.

      • [email protected]

        And that two percent had a lot of power and convinced a lot of other whites to fight for their right to lord it over others. And their descendants are doing their damnedest to bring slavery back, even if in altered form.

      • Tiffany Mitchell

        Don’t forget about black people who owned black slaves.

      • The Angry Turtle

        How is that relevant. It doesn’t matter how many whites owned slaves or how many other countries had slavery as well. People in the south supported the institution of slavery whether or not they owned them.

        Southerners went to war to maintain their way of life when the country was trying to progress. I’m sorry, I’m all for states having rights, but basic human rights needs to be national law.

      • Flossie

        Southerners went to war to stop the North from robbery of the the South with their import/export tariffs of which they had been paying for THIRTY YEARS, let me say that again THIRTY YEARS the South had been paying for the Union’s Government and the industrialization of the North with NO BENEFIT to the South.

      • The Angry Turtle

        Yeah… If slavery wasn’t one of the main reasons they seceded then why was it mentioned so prominently in states declaration of secession?

        Look slavery was an ugly part of out history and the entire country is culpable for allowing it. But trying to pretend like it wasn’t a major part of farming and industry is a huge disservice and insult to everyone who lived and died under whip.

      • Flossie

        You totally ignored my comment and went straight into your slavery/secession comment. So I have to say… the building of the American Government and the Industrialization of the North could not have happened without the South’s funding. To pretend that never happened is a huge insult to the South.

        As a whole, I think we sometime lack the courage to learn the truths regarding the ugliness of our past and confront them. The truth is… we can’t replace historical facts.

        Did you know Massachusetts threatened to secede on three separate occasions? Did you know Abolitionists also advocated secession?
        After 1830 the North’s control of the national government and politics became permanent and that is when secession of the South came to the forefront. America was conceived in secession and the government was to be run on the consent of the governed, so any part of this country had the right to secede.

        While it’s represented the war was a crusade for the North to free the slaves; the facts are contradictory.

        Lincoln offered a constitutional amendment forever protecting slavery. A Congressional Resolution in 1862 reaffirmed the war’s aim was to “preserve the Union, not free the slave”.
        The Emancipation Proclamation was met in the North by laws collectively known as “Black Codes”.
        http://www.civilwar.org/

      • The Angry Turtle

        Oh, I’ve heard the true history of the US. Pretending that anyone back then were saints is a huge misconception. But the South was taxed by the country not just the North. I understand that the vast majority of that money went toward the industrial revolution in the North but that revolution ended up making the country what it is today. And the South was a big part of that.
        Fact was, Lincoln wanted to end the Civil War even if he had to keep slavery to do it. He has laid out numerous times that he was against slavery but he felt repairing the Union was a higher priority.
        And while abolitionists may have talked about seceding they never actually did it. The South actually did and it lead to the deaths in the hundreds of thousands.
        But at he end of the day, while there were a many things that the South fought for, slavery was a pillar of their society. Looking at the souths reluctance to integrate the schools, it’s not hard to believe that if the federal government had left something like slavery up to the states, many of them would have atrocious practices to this day.
        And even if you ignore all of that. The rebel flag has become and symbol for the KKK, neonazis, and skin heads. Look at all of the lynchings that have taken place. No one knows the actual number of murders that have taken place in the name of the flag.
        I’m sorry but it’s image has been forever tarnished.

      • Flossie

        I don’t remember saying anyone was a saint or acted like one, so maybe your sources are a little skewed. I can say that rumor and innuendo is not a good way to learn the history of any country.
        Fact is… Lincoln started the Civil War and was pro slavery when it paid the taxes and funded the government.

        I believe you just repeated what I said about the abolitionists (of which Lincoln was one), so we agree I think.
        We also agree the South did secede, but the Civil declared by Lincoln to stop the secession lead to the deaths as well.

        Slavery was a self-consuming labor system and required new lands to replace what it exhausted. That pattern repeatedly played out in the Western Hemisphere and the extinction of slavery was going to happen.

        To put it into perspective – slavery existed in Africa 40 years before America was discovered and it was only after 1830 when the control of national politics by the North became permanent that secession became associated exclusively with the South and slavery.

        It was a deplorable practice, but the pillar of many societies.
        It doesn’t exist in the South today, so reluctance means what?Slavery continued in the North after the Civil War and that’s what I call reluctance.

        It’s unfortunate the Northern Virginia Battle flag has been associated with racism, but to blame a whole culture of people for that is hypocritical racism at it’s finest. It would be the same as me saying every person of color who raises their fist in the air is inciting racism expressing Black Power.

      • The Angry Turtle

        Actually Lincoln’s whole family was against slavery. His father went to a church that felt both slavery and (get this) dancing was sinful. haha. Look, would the country be in better shape if it stayed split? No. The South threw the democratic process out the window and seceded when they didn’t like the direction of the country. What if states just seceded every time they didn’t want to follow along with a law being issued? If the US did nothing about those states seceding, then whats to stop any state, any city, from doing so every time they hear about a law they don’t like.

        (What’s that? Who won American Idol? That’s it were seceding!)

        And you can’t say that slavery was doomed to end, when it still hasn’t fucking ended! Sexual slavery exists in every country around the world. And why is it that whenever someone brings up slavery in the US, someone always brings up that it existed in Africa. Ya know where else it existed, pretty much every continent on the planet. I’m sorry but just because America was late to the slavery game, doesn’t mean that it was acceptable. We seem to write the the early american’s a pass, but there have been white people who have wanted to abolish slavery since before the creation of the US. If they saw that it was wrong, why didn’t the others.

        Now I don’t get me wrong. I love the South, (the best food is made there) and I don’t blame the south for all of racism ever. My family is from the South. But when someone actively decides to wear a symbol and completely disregard the history of hate that it has… Let’s forget about slavery for a minute. Let’s just talk about the number of people murdered, raped, and beaten under that same flag since 1865 and on into the civil rights era of the US. The fact that people still wear that means is like a slap in the face. To a person of color a Confederate Flag is a big “You’re Not Welcome” sign.

        Also did you just compare the confederate flag to the black power fist… Let’s compare numbers. Let’s see how many people were killed by the Black Panthers and compare it to the number of people lynched, burned, or beaten to death. It wasn’t a race war, it was a slaughter.

      • Flossie

        So… do you agree, rumor and innuendo is not a good way to learn history?
        In your rush to defend Lincoln, you may have overlooked my comment in which I agreed with you…. that Lincoln was an abolitionist.
        Did you know that Robert E. Lee’s whole family was against slavery. He considered it a sin, much like others felt about dancing. His wife and daughter created an illegal school to educate the slaves and he freed all the slaves he inherited because he felt slavery was a sin. Robert E. Lee was a Southerner.

        Your Comment: (you swept this under rug as well: blaming the South for all the Civil War deaths)
        “The South actually did and it lead to the deaths in the hundreds of thousands.”

        Read this:
        After the war, the Supreme Court issued an opinion fixing the exact dates on which the war began and ended. It held: “…The proclamation of intended blockade by the President may therefore be assumed as marking the first of these dates, and the proclamation that the war had closed, as marking the second.” Thus, according to the Supreme Court, Lincoln’s signature on this order sealing the imposition of the blockade marked the official beginning of the Civil War.
        http://www.raabcollection.com/abraham-lincoln

        I don’t know what the country would be like if it stayed split, although you seem to know all the answers…..maybe we should ask Detroit or Chicago. They are currently being destroyed from the inside out.

        Historian Russell McClintock wrote “that the secession crisis…began in direct response to the outcome of a national election, specifically to the triumph of a particular party”.

        The South seceded exactly the way America began and it’s a little more to it than “hearing about a law they don’t like”.

        Do you compare all life events to American Idol? (no pun intended)

        You commented: “And you can’t say that slavery was doomed to end, when it still hasn’t fucking ended! Sexual slavery exists in every country around the world”.

        My comment was: “It was a deplorable practice, but the pillar of many societies. It doesn’t exist in the South today”. (key word – South).

        I do believe slavery was self-consuming in America. With all the advances, I can’t imagine slavery existing in American society, can you?
        There are regions in Africa who still practice slavery today, which pretty much solidifies my comment. I think Africa is associated with US slavery mainly because the majority of US slaves came from Africa. I certainly do not believe slavery was/is acceptable and in no way would ever defend it. I do believe we should be honest with ourselves regarding history and accept a bad thing happened and learn from it.
        It’s the same as me asking you: Why are you defending slavery?
        What if the Jewish community blamed all living Germans for the Holocaust? Should we Hitler shame all people of German heritage until the end of time? That doesn’t seem fair either.

        Southern is a culture and truly deserves to be forgiven.
        We have forgiven everyone else in America.
        The flag has been made an unfair ugly symbol of Racism at the expense of the GOOD people of the South.

        Believe it or not…. a lot of Southerners see Robert E. Lee’s battle flag as Robert E. Lee’s battle flag.
        And just so you know…..the battle flag was never flown as a symbol of slavery, on a slave ship or for any purpose other than flown on the field of battle to know friends from Enemies

        AND

        If you want to compare numbers. The confederate flag has been compared with Hitler’s flag of Nazi Germany.
        How many people were killed by Hitler compared to the Civil Rights Era. Goose meet Gander.

      • The Angry Turtle

        You keep defending the south although I said in my last comment that I loved the south and that my family was from there. I have many friends who are in Louisiana, Tennessee, Texas. I never condemned the region or accused them of anything other than trying to whitewash being on the wrong side of history. You went on and on about Lee but I don’t remember ever mentioning him.

        My problem is since then instead of condemning that history so many people embrace it and ignore all of the ugliness. It’s where the civil rights movement had the most resistance and saw the most violence. It’s where they refused to adopt MLK day as a holiday the longest, it’s where armed guards had to desegregate the schools, it’s where active members of the ku klux klan were elected to public office, it’s where even though the schools were desegregated they still segregated social events like the Prom, where busts and statues of founders of the KKK are up in public places, and southern states with the exception of New Jersey still to this day, hold the record the highest number of hate groups as compared to their population. I’m not making this up, like I said my family is from the south and my Mother went to segregated schools.

        But I don’t hold any harsh feelings for any of this. My issue is much like Song of the South or Gone With the Wind, folks keep romanticizing this horrible era. Sure there were many factors in the civil war but slavery was one of the largest ones. And since then it’s become a symbol for hatred bigotry and violence.

        BTW there’s evidence of sexual slavery going on in all 50 states. North, South, East, West. It’s one of the most horrific things that goes on in the world today and people don’t give it the attention it deserves. Sorry if I seem like I’ve a stick up my ass about that but knowing about all of the girls trapped in it, it just bugs me every time I hear someone say that slavery is gone, or that it only exits in Africa or Asia. Fact is, it’s everywhere.

        Since you brought up the swastika consider that many Indian cultures view it as a holy symbol. Now, they can’t wear it on T-shirts because that symbol has been forever tainted. And I’m sorry but the same thing has happened to the rebel flag. It’s become the symbol of skin heads and white nationalists.

        To be clear I think the confederate flag has it’s place. It should be up in museums and places where people study history because it’s an important part of US history. But government property is different.

        Also If i’m understanding you correctly, your defense for comparing the confederate flag to the black power fist, is that people compare the confederate flag to the swastika???

        Wearing a confederate flag does not mean that you hate minorities. But it certainly means that you don’t give a shit about how unwelcome you make them feel.

      • Flossie

        If I am defending anything, it’s History. Why are you defending Lincoln? Oh that’s right… you think he actually freed the slaves.

        Since you are categorizing who is on the “right or wrong” side of history, what side do you think the Native Americans are on?

        I mentioned Lee because his flag is the topic of this forum.
        Everyone acts as if we are suppose to take tape and block out the slavery part of history or impale themselves on stakes as an offering for forgiveness. Slavery doesn’t exist in the South anymore and quite frankly…. they are over it.

        The problems of late seem to be in Baltimore and Ferguson. The beautiful people of Charleston set a great example of how to handle hate. It would be nice to see the rest of the country follow suit. The South may be where the civil rights movement had the most resistance, but it’s showing the rest of the country how to deal with it.
        And just so you know, the South has MLK day and you can’t drive 5 miles without seeing a road, street, blvd, etc. honoring his name.
        And the last time I checked the schools were segregated,
        SO WHAT if they were last. Southerners do a lot of things at a slower pace than everyone else.

        The KKK did not limit themselves to the South, neither did the Black Panthers and just for the record, NJ is in the North.

        I certainly didn’t romanticize slavery, but it does have a place in history and that cannot be changed. Do we really want to ban Song of the South, Gone with the Wind, the flag, Dukes of Hazard, confederate memorials, TV shows, guns, etc., etc.? How does that make us different than a communist country or North Korea?

        Sexual slavery has nothing to do with this topic and you actually brought up the swastika when you said:
        “And even if you ignore all of that. The rebel flag has become and symbol for the KKK, neonazis, and skin heads……”

        Government property should be free of bias and/or any references to religion, politics, group organizations, memorials, heritage, civil rights, MLK statutes or references to influence any cause. Some people feel the “Black Power Fist” is a symbol of racism and their feelings are just as valid as someone’s feelings regarding the confederate flag. Tolerance my friend.

        I don’t wear the flag due to all the stigma attached to it, but those who want to, should have the right to do so.
        It’s America.

      • The Angry Turtle

        You seem to have miss-took everything that I’ve said so far. Either that or you have a bad habit of pushing anyone who disagrees with you to the extreme. Did you even bother to read where I said that I loved the south and that I felt the flag was part of history.
        Do you always get so defensive when someone tries to agree with you on points?

        So just a couple of things. First of all, did I even mention Lincoln in my last post? What do you mean I keep defending him? Secondly what’s you grudge against the guy anyhow?

        Also When did I say that I wanted to ban the flag? It’s a free country. I just stated that it may be in bad taste and it’s a clear sign that the wearer doesn’t basically hanging a you’re not welcome sign from their house/car.

        Maybe I should have made the hate crime thing clearer. Yeah… I know that New Jersey isn’t in the south… When I said “with the exception on New Jersey” I meant that New Jersey was the only non southern state that made the list of top 10 states with highest concentration of hate groups per population. Every other state on the list was a southern state.

        Also the Black power fist was a symbol of solidarity from and oppressed people who were being beaten and lynched in the streets. You can’t compare it to the symbol brandished by the people doing the beating and lynching.

        Look I’m not trying to limit your free speech people are free to wave whatever flag they want on their own property. And I’m not totally disagreeing with you.

      • Flossie

        It is really easy to get things twisted on here. I apologize if I offended you in any way. You seem to have a love / hate relationship with the South in regard to it’s history. I feel it’s unfair to hold the slavery years and what occurred in the 60s against the South. It’s really a beautiful part of America with the warmest, kindest and most hospitable citizens you could ever imagine.
        Charleston, SC was a great example of how to steer the course in the eyes of hatred and a true reflection of its people…. all of the people.

      • The Angry Turtle

        I totally agree.

      • gman8336

        It’s not the percentage of slave owners that is important, the number is actually closer to 5% of Southerners but what is important is the number of people that were enslaved, killed, and separated from their families. Estimates vary but there were over 10 million enslaved. Over 2 million were killed during the journey to the US. The slave owners themselves were just one part of the mechanism as well. Their were people involved with acquiring, transporting, and selling and murdering slaves.

      • Flossie

        I was responding to a comment regarding the South, secession and Southern Heritage being all about slavery.
        The percentage I quoted was “white slave owners in America”, not just the South. Slavery was also practiced throughout the North.

        Southern slave owner percentages have been argued for years. Some say 4% and some go all the way up to 6%.

        Research shows that 1860 Slave Schedule lists slaves under the legal owner, generally a man and head of household. It ALSO lists the women and children living in the household who were not legal slave owners, but their inclusion in the data dilutes the percentage of white Southerners who owned slaves.

        The information was taken from the 1860 Census to reach the 5.8% to 6% numbers.

        No one (myself included) is defending slavery.
        It is in the history of many countries, young and old.
        America’s slave shaming divides it’s people and using it as an excuse to fail doesn’t help.
        No one living was ever a slave or slave owner.

    • Janet Waters

      I grew up in the Northwest and did not experience “Northwestern Pride” either–it seemed like people really didn’t have the need to fight agaist anything in particular and if they did, the attitude was “live and let live.” However after I got married to a Southerner—we moved to the South and I have lived here for thirty years now. I guess Southern Pride is something you have to experience yourself. But it is absolutely a great thing to experience both pride in HOME and COUNTRY! This must have been what the early patriots felt about the United States, but unfortunately this sense of pride in the HOME of the brave (by standing up for what you believe in) has been somewhat lost today (but not in the South).

      • Ellen H.

        Not necessarily. I see people standing up for what they believe in all the time. You should see how people react when the idiots from the Westboro “Baptist Church” show up. It just isn’t associated with the part of the country one is from. It’s more of an all of us thing.

    • Liza Yellowbird

      States rights in the South were about the economy, and the economy was based on slavery. Little has changed in the respect that big business still runs on what is known as “wage slavery” — workers who make minimum wage with no benefits and who consequently live in poverty. In some cases, slaves well treated had far better living conditions than Walmart workers, for example.

      Many Northern folks supported the South because THEIR business depended on that free labor of the South.

      It was about the economy, not a philosophy. Money, dear. Money.

      You don’t get “Southern Pride” because you are not from the South. The Midwest is the nation’s Bland Basket, of course you know nothing of a real regional culture, for heaven’s sake!

      Make no mistake, I am not justifying slavery, but if you threaten any region’s economic base you will have a war on your hands, as the U.S. did. The flag is a relic and a harmless one. It is simply a red herring in this whole matter. What a bunch of b.s. is taking over the country with this rallying cry!

      • Ellen H.

        So it wasn’t a good thing to threaten a regions economy base because they were using people who had no choice to leave or not? Wal=Mart workers aren’t beaten, forcibly separated from their families, and are able to go find another job. You may not be justifying slavery, but that harmless relic as you call it stands for something that is harmful. Also, did you know that in the countries that have banned the Nazi flag, skinheads there use the confederate flag. I’m very proud of Kansas City. I just don’t run around screaming Midwestern Pride because that would be asinine.

      • Flossie

        Maybe you aren’t screaming Midwestern Pride because you have none. You seem to think the south should shoulder the burden of slavery.
        Look up Christopher P. Lehman’s exploration of slavery in the upper
        Midwest, he helped to offer an important corrective
        to those who assume that the history of race is not a centrally
        mid-western or Iowa story.

      • Ellen H.

        Did I say that? No, I didn’t. The person I was responding to equated slavery to Wal-Mart workers. Slavery wherever it occurred was and is wrong. I don’t live in the upper Midwest. As I said, I’m proud of Kansas City, KS. Kansas entered the union as a free state after a lot of blood shed. The confederate battle flag represents the time of slavery for many. If you want to show your pride in your area, get a state flag, or the flag of the university you went to. That’s what my neighborhood does.

      • Flossie

        No one disputed that slavery was wrong.
        The flag represents a time in history (key word – history) that cannot be re-written. Are you trying to say the citizens of Kansas have clean hands when it comes to slavery? Really? You are not alone in trying to make yourself feel better about it by wagging your finger at the Southern States.
        It is the biggest problem in our country today… personal responsibility.
        Slavery existed in the Kansas Territory, but on a much smaller scale than in the South. Most slaveholders owned only one or two slaves. Many slaves were women and children who performed domestic work rather than farm labor.
        Marcus Lindsay Freeman was taken to Kansas Territory as a slave.

        Kansas had a flag during it’s time of slavery…. shall we condemn it to hell and pretend it doesn’t exist or accept it for what it is…. a part of your state’s history.

      • Ellen H.

        Did I put the blame on the south for slavery? No, I didn’t. You keep bringing it up. You say the confederate battle flag is a relic–it is. Thought this was interesting; the source is “Jefferson Davis: the Essential Writings” and it includes a speech made to a group of young men in Mississippi in 1888, shortly before his death. In the speech Davis says, “The past is dead, let it bury its dead, its hopes and aspirations;–before you lies the future…..Let me beseech you to lay aside all rancor, all bitter sectional feeling, and to make your places in the ranks of those who will bring about a consummation devoutly to be wished–a reunited country.”

      • Flossie

        Just for the record and your comprehension, I never called it the “confederate flag” or a “relic”. I understand that making open ended comments makes it easy to back track and say “I didn’t say that”, but a lot of your statements are just lack of education regarding the Civil War and the history of the Southern States.

        Your comment:
        “The confederate battle flag represents the time of slavery for many”. “If you want to show your pride in your area, get a state flag, or the flag of the university you went to”. That’s what my neighborhood does.

        – It was the Northern Virginia battle flag.
        -The North went to war to hold the union together, NOT to free the slaves.” In fact, the North held slaves over a year after the war.
        – “Pride in your area” has nothing to do with “Southern Pride” and shows you are clueless in the meaning behind the history of the South.

        Your comment:
        “So it wasn’t a good thing to threaten a regions economy base because they were using people who had no choice to leave or not?”

        – Again, The North went to war to hold the union together, NOT to free the slaves.”

        Your comment:
        “…did you know that in the countries that have banned the Nazi flag, skinheads there use the confederate flag. I’m very proud of Kansas City. I just don’t run around screaming Midwestern Pride because that would be asinine.”

        -You don’t run around screaming Midwestern Pride, because it doesn’t exist.
        – It’s unfortunate that other countries use the flag in a negative manner. It’s also unfortunate that other countries burn the American Flag, how do you suggest we stop that?

      • Solarflare The Magnificent

        Tell that same stuff to all the violent racist blacks running amok in the streets of major cities.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Yes there were MANY who disputed the whether slavery was wrong. Read the Articles of Confederation nitwit……man you people are stupid.

      • Flossie

        “No one disputed that slavery was wrong” on this COMMENT FORUM.
        Do you read and comprehend or just read.
        You certainly prove the saying that stupid doesn’t recognize itself.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        is Kansas’ flag being used as a symbol for racism and hatred today? No? Then move along douche

      • Flossie

        The Klan spread across Kansas in 1924 and reached about 100,000.
        That was a ratio of about 1 Klansman for every 7.5 white Protestant adults.
        2013 Census – 87.1% white 6.2% black
        They don’t need a flag commie.
        Their numbers speak.
        SC didn’t fly their flag as a symbol for racism & hatred.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        LOL…that’s right….people who don’t appreciate your racist leanings are “commies”….seriously, there is something wrong with you teabagging nutjobs that stroke Rush Limbaugh on a daily basis.

        None of what you posted has anything to do with the Kansas flag being a used as a symbol for hatred and racism. hahahaa….. And I guess you should tell all of the GOP who are now trying to get rid of the flag what you believe. Hey Gov Haley, Flossie says the Confederate loser flag isn’t a symbol of racism. There you go, problem solved. idiot

      • Flossie

        Some people don’t know history and some like you can’t comprehend what other people write. I haven’t posted one racist comment. In fact, ….guess what?….that may be because I’m not racist. I am also not a a tea bagger like you who dreams about massaging Limbaugh’s balls.
        It was the Northern Virginia battle flag and yes it has been used by some for negative reasons, but it’s a stretch to call it a “terrorist flag”.
        Some folks need to suck sit up, accept responsibility for themselves and stop blaming everyone else for the problems in their life.

      • Melissa Cogdill

        A few state flags are based on confederate flag now what?

      • Solarflare The Magnificent

        Leave them alone that is what!

      • Melissa Cogdill

        you know that isn’t going to happen :(

      • Solarflare The Magnificent

        Yeah Ellen get a USA Flag that the U.S.Army used when the murdered all those Native Americans, women and children, those filthy savages. Yes it seems all flags have some bloodstains on them. Yehaw!

      • Brenda Turner

        Thanks for your opinion, now, in America a free country, I’ll express myself as I feel I should. Don’t like it don’t look. Don’t associate with me I am fine with that.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        I’ve never met a southerner who is proud of where he is from, who isn’t dumb as shit. And you fit that mold perfectly. Thanks for verifying the stereotype.

      • Corbin

        Then I am glad to meet you. I’m Southern, proud of it, and served as a Flight Engineer in the Air Force for 12 years, and F-16 Crew Chief for four years, and 4 years as an Infantryman in the 82nd Airborne. I am currently an ASE Certified Master in Automotive Tech, and Heavy trucks. Perhaps you should try to hang around a better class of people. Have you ever considered that decent and intelligent Southerners just might find you annoying and repulsive and stay away from you?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Congrats, but I could really care less of what you have done. I served 20 years in the Army alongside countless people from all walks of life, all over the world to include southern states. Your resume’ doesn’t disprove that you aren’t a complete moron and racist, and your insistence that you aren’t only shows me that I’m hitting a little too close to home.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        did you really point to being a mechanic as proof of NOT being dumb as shit? smh

      • Flossie

        Do you always get mad at people who are smarter than you?
        Mad Commie?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Commie? LOL…..

      • Flossie

        Perhaps I should I said racist commies. Is that better?

      • Flossie

        Or do you prefer Mr. Dipshitsky?

      • qu4ttro

        You are absolutely correct.

      • Corbin

        Well put.

    • 7skuareoff

      That’s a relief, you really are as stupid as you look.

    • Cricketmk3

      I am from the south and I love living in this part of the country. Beautiful beaches, beautiful mountains, great food, friendly people, warmer weather, sweet tea, etcetera. I could go on and on. Does the term “Southern Pride” imply something I don’t know about? If so, I’ll just say I’m proud to be from the south.

    • AtomicMetroid

      Jews owned most of the slaves. They also owned the boats that brought them here.

    • RealVoiceOfReason

      Ever fell any of that “I killed Indians” pride that everyone forget was done under the American Flag?

      • Ellen H.

        Sadly the Europeans wiped out a lot of the indigenous population of this country when they came and continued to treat them like crap. Why anyone would feel pride over that in mind-boggling. However, the U.S. flag wasn’t put away after a war was lost and then brought back out when Nathan Bedford started the KKK. It wasn’t brought out and put on some state flags when school desegregation was starting. It wasn’t brought out as a symbol of intimidation when the civil rights movement started.

    • Philip

      Then you truly did not comprehend what you read!!!!

      • Ellen H.

        Really? Here’s the first sentence of Georgia’s: “The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. ” I know you’re going to tell me that it was for economical reasons since the plantation owners depended upon free labor.

      • Philip

        The first sentence. Really? Try reading the entire Declaration of Secession (I have). You will see there are many more issues for secession than slavery. The issue contained within the document are the main reasons for the declaration, not slavery! Then read the rest of the southern states Declaration of Secession. You will see that the talk about the same issues. I could write a very long reply listing all of the issues but I will let you read them if you will. Question? If the Civil War was about slavery, then why did Lincoln not bring up the issue of slavery until 2 years after the war started??????? Hmmmm!!!

    • There were more white slaves at one time than black. READ WHITE CARGO. Whites were still held as slaves until 1870. Read the second writing of the fifteen amendment. The north did not want to free whites. There are many lies told about the uncivil war. I’m sad that anyone could hold a grudge thur generations or 150 years. Odumba has awaken a sleeping giant. The white progressive will go first just as Hitler did the homosexual Jew. I wish you the best if you really do start a religious race war. The American Soldiers will not help you! The black and white police will not help you. So please do whatever your heart of hate can take. Because we are 70 plus million strong that are front line soldiers. We will right the wrong that the looney left has done to MY country!!

      • Ellen H.

        Slavery is wrong no matter who is enslaved. However, pointing out that white people have also been slaves doesn’t change a thing. Hebrews were slaves in Egypt a long time ago. In many ancient civilizations captives became slaves. See, those don’t change a thing.

      • Why do you have so much hate?

      • Ellen H.

        Why do you have so many logical fallacies?

      • I’m a direct descendant of a white slave 1619! I don’t believe for one minute that your a real TEXAN! GW wasn’t either.. I doubt your female or America! Negros and Jews do the lying since you don’t know! Are you good at two things! Hating and sleeping with negros.

      • Ellen H.

        Not from Texas and boy do you have some issues.

      • So are your wanting what? It’s little girls like you that got out soldiers in Chattanooga kill. There’s blood on your hands! Shame on you. You can go back to were up came.

      • Ellen H.

        You’re making no sense whatsoever. I’m finished with you.

      • Thank you sore looser.

      • Sore looser

      • I OWN YOU NOW. YOU IS MINE WHITE GIRL.

    • Ellen you could seek some mental health help.

    • Jaime Lynn

      If you understood why. The south was agriculture based. It was over money. A means to an end. You are missing the big picture on what was going on and corrupting then with standards from now. Never forget history is written by the victors.

      Read more accurate and detailed history books and pay less attention to Hollywood movie history lessons.

    • You sure could use a history lesson! The laws on the books at that time, made slavery legal. at the same time it was illegal to whip a white slave. For anyone to be sent or brought to America in bondage was sinful. Holding a grudge for 150 years is sinful also. Why? No one is here that suffered. Jim Crow is over. But they still hate America? These people that hate America will bring a war near you soon. MLK and his friends were BLACK COMMUNISTS then. Today they are ISIS OF AMERICA!

    • TomRay

      The War and Secession were TWO separate events with different issues–Do not confuse the two.

    • TomRay

      The Secession and War were two different events with their own issues and causes.—-Besides the NORTH was STILL a slave holding Country itself. The south has no exclusivity as far as slavery goes.

    • Truth Offends Liars

      Now we are ALL modern slaves to the socialist Federal Government, and their banks etc. No pride in modern slavery. Only about 2% of southerners owned slaves, and those slaves were treated like family.

      End The FED!

    • Heylottylotty

      It is a historical fact that “to the winner go the spoils”. That includes the rewriting of history to fit the winner, right or wrong. Anyone who really wishes to find the truth from those times can get it. “Southern Pride” is more a slogan than a clic or calling. Our pride is in our attitude toward others, our families, God, and love of country (USA). The fact there was a War of Northern Aggression is a fact. The atrocities against the South for defending these states is history. The men and women (of all colors and faiths) who fought should be remembered. That Flag is the symbol of that respect, not anything about slavery. Look up the Sons of the Confederacy. They have archives and references anyone can find. And I do have guts. My service to protect your right to make that statement shows it. It was not about slavery. Even Lincoln said it. It was about excess taxation and Federal control of the crop growing states. So, bless your heart. Y’all come, ya’ hear?

      • Ellen H.

        So why did it come out for the founding of the KKK and in protest of Civil Rights and school desegregation?

      • Heylottylotty

        It seems to be a common misconception that a flag can pick and choose the person or people who use it (or abuse it). Just because you eat at a certain restaurant doesn’t mean you own it or believe in their mission statement. The Flag was often (wrongly) seen as only a “rebel” (rebellion) symbol and those type people misused it for that. Just as we see many people with a skull and crossbones flag, decal or sign, it doesn’t mean they are true pirates.

      • Ellen H.

        So you have no problem with the Nazi flag. Okay, good to know where you stand.

      • Heylottylotty

        Do you get a scripted text from your handlers or software for your computer? That last piece of diatribe is too silly to consider by any American.

        You must admire the hammer and sickle tattoo each night before going to bed.

      • Ellen H.

        No, that’s what you have. You said that it’s a common misconception that a flag can pick and choose the person or people who use it or abuse it. Because of that statement I was presuming you felt the same way about any flag such as the Nazi flag. Apparently, it’s just for the battle flag of Virginia that you have those same feelings. Those of you defending the use of the flag that came out for the founding of the KKK, to protest Civil Rights, and to protest school desegregation are the ones who have scripted text from handlers.

      • Heylottylotty

        One slight (or not) difference. The people letting the Nazi flag “come out” are claiming to be Nazis, believe its premises, and practice that sick life. But even then, there are many “collectors” of nazi stuff with no knowledge of what it was/is nor do they care.
        As for the Battle Flag, I know no one (in their right mind) that wants slavery in this country, north or south. I also know that no American wants to pay more than equal share of taxes to the government. With that said, the heritage of the Southern people living today with any background of that era involves the reason for secession as well as the horrible war that was thrust on us by the Federal Government. Men and women died trying to protect our states from that aggression. Politics aside, that respect is held in part by the flag as a reminder of the good and the bad. We all need reminders of things to do and those never to do again.

      • Blue

        It represents the slave holding Confederacy. As black people were the most impacted by what the flag meant, it’s perfectly reasonable to defer to their interpretation.

      • Heylottylotty

        When looked upon through blinders, that may work. When seeing the nation as a whole one will learn that “slavery” was practiced throughout the North as well. There was no Confederacy at that time. The Confederacy came about due to the excess taxation burden AND the refusal by the Federal to allow the Southern States to secede. Once again a war was begun over money. The “Battle Flag” only came about because the South was forced to defend against the War of Northern Aggression. It had nothing to do with slavery (north or south). Lincoln declared war over the secession, NOT over slavery (his own words chiseled in the lower room of Lincoln Memorial). Remember it was he that planned to exile the blacks from the U.S. to Central America.

      • Blue

        You just don’t get tired of being wrong.

        At the time of the Civil War, most of the northern states had outlawed chattel slavery.

        The Confederacy came about solely because the southern states wanted to keep slavery.

        Here it is, in their words:

        http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

        Eleven southern states seceded to preserve slavery. Lincoln declared war over their secession.

        l

      • Heylottylotty

        Interesting that the very site you refer to shows the monument depicting Confederate soldiers going off to defend the South. Note the whites and blacks together in uniform.
        A quote from a letter sent by Pres. Lincoln:… “to Horace Greeley in which he wrote that “my paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery, If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.”
        As I have stated before, the ownership of slaves at THAT time was legal. It had been so for years. Many of the farms required many workers to produce the food and cotton sold in the U.S. and abroad. Such an endeavor would take time to disband without a catastrophic shut down of major sources of food and cotton. Some interpreted this as permanent slavery. Most not.
        It is obvious you have distinct beliefs as I have others. This venue is not the place nor will it be. Have a nice life.

      • Blue

        To borrow a quote, you are entitled to your own beliefs. You are not entitled to your own facts. You are relying on misinformation for your “distinct beliefs”.

        The idea that black men freely jumped up and fought to defend a government that enslaved them is not only easily disproven, it is ridiculous on its face.

        Arming black men was a last resort.

        https://jubiloemancipationcentury.wordpress.com/2015/01/28/if-slaves-will-make-good-soldiers-our-whole-theory-of-slavery-is-wrong-confederate-howell-cobb-on-black-enlistment/

        Eleven southern states seceded to preserve slavery. The link I gave you proves that. The idea that you can use Lincoln’s words to disprove the Confederacy’s motivation is irrational.

        You have repeatedly stated this nonsense about slavery being legal at that time. I ask again, what is your point? So what?

        The functioning, or lack of functioning, of southern farms and plantations is beside the point. The south seceded to preserve slavery. The Union fought to preserve the Union. No amount of misinformation and diversion can change that.

        Here is a link that shows the percentage of families that owned slaves in 1860. Look at those numbers. South Carolina 57%. Alabama 35%. Tennessee 25%.

        http://www.civil-war.net/pages/1860_census.html

    • AJ

      Other parts of the country don’t really have much to be proud of, I know, I’m a Northeasterner!

  • Steve LaFontaine

    there were FIVE NORTHERN SLAVE STATES. the slaves were not freed in the north until a YEAR AFTER the war was over.
    http://blackconfederatestruth.blogspot.com/

    • Tom Bruize

      And, um, how many years after in Texas? Hmmmmmmm?

    • rejectrepublicanlies

      So what? Your factual citation doesn’t diminish or disprove the author’s statement that the flag is a sign or oppression, slavery and treason. Everyone who flies that racist symbol knows what it really stands for. It’s a way to inflict more pain and hatred on the victims, but do so in a subtle way. It’s for people that wish they could say the N word in public. Losers and traitors. You’re the same folks behind the Tea Party, militia movements and white supremacy groups. Sick reminder of our past.

    • JamieHaman

      Talking about something similar doesn’t do any thing to address the actual problem of racism in South Carolina now does it?
      But, thanks for sharing the link, I learned some new history today.

      • milothefierce

        The actual problem of racism in South Carolina? Let’s compare the reactions of the locals to the reactions that we saw in Ferguson, NYC, Baltimore… After this awful act (which was a racist act carried out by one demented young man), the people of SC came together in unity to grieve. The people in the other cities listed rioted, burned, looted their own stores. So where is racism more prevalent?

      • JamieHaman

        I should have said the racism everywhere. Yes, the actual problem of racism in SC, that’s where this church was at, that’s were the shooter was, so that makes it a problem of racism in SC.
        The people in Ferguson, NYC, Baltimore, all lost loved ones due to the direct power of the state they were in, all of those killings were by police officers. All followed up by the judicial system claiming the killings were justified. That gets a reaction, and deserves one.
        This mass killing was not directly supported by the state, and it is not going to be swept under the rug, by police departments, and DA’s failing to get even a grand jury to admit to a crime. Or by claiming that the victims were “thugs”, or not obeying police orders, and so deserved being shot, and or killed. Because it IS hard to blame the Bible Study group for being shot and killed, though I’m sure you noticed too, that the NRA and Faux News both tried. When we say that this was a lone person, or an accident, or a mentally ill person, or that old stand by: “we don’t know what was in his mind”, well, all of that proves the white people don’t see what is in front of their eyes. Denying racism is to deny justice.
        This shooter was a terrorist, with support, all the support of all the white people who said something derogatory, who said something clearly racist, or who ignored it when it got said, meaning their silence equaled their consent.
        Any one who commits acts of violence, with the intention of his end game being to have blacks be silenced, or return to Africa, or to start a race war, is a terrorist. The fact that he committed this crime against blacks, makes it a hate crime as well. He’s a racist, and enough of the voting people of SC are racists as well, or they would have gotten that flag down, and into a museum where it belongs. They would have worked harder to ensure equality, and yes, I do know that, I live in Texas, and look who we elect, and why.

      • milothefierce

        This is where I get irritated… So many people outside of SC automatically assume that all of us white folks here are backwards racist rednecks that are secretly cheering the acts of this monster. You make blanket statements about the people here being racist, but you have no real clue. I’ve traveled all over the country and have witnessed more racism in the north and west than I ever did growing up in SC. You’re pointing the finger at us backwards redneck South Carolinians and calling us racist, but if you want to come face to face with the real racist here just look in the mirror.

        What you people (personal disclaimer because I know someone somewhere will try to twist my words: by “you people,” I mean northerners/westerners that aren’t in the deep south and have probably never even visited the deep south) don’t understand is that we all grew up together, went to school together, work together, and for the most part have a mutual respect for each other. What Roof did was pure evil, and I agree that it should be considered an act of domestic terrorism. I also believe that the looters and burners in the other cities I mentioned should be held to the same standard. The little thugs running around playing the knock out game should be charged with hate crimes just like the white guys charged with hate crimes for beating a black man. The New Black Panthers should be placed in the same ugly category as the kkk. It’s all the same hate, but in today’s world it’s not PC to call out anybody but the white guy. Want true racial equality? That’s it… You have to take the good with the bad.

        As for the Confederate flag that’s flying on the capital grounds: it’s flying above a memorial to SC’s Confederate soldiers, not above the state house. Those soldiers (including several of my ancestors) fought and died defending their homes, families, and freedom from what they felt was an oppressive government. There’s nothing racist about that.

      • JamieHaman

        The courage of the men who fought and died for that flag is not in question. Neither is the courage and the kindness of the Southern women who took in, and cared for Union soldiers. That flag stood for the right to own human beings. The rightness of that cause is the question, that cause was and is wrong. Why did “you people” of SC have enshrined into law that the damned flag cannot be taken down?
        Yes, I do know that not every white person is a murderous racist, and guess what? I Don’t think most people are overtly racist either. That doesn’t make subtle racism any less real now does it? The day to day racism of “I don’t want to see black people, hear their music, see their baggy pants, or know about their problems either.” kind of racism. Maybe you can explain how this country has to pass a Civil Rights Act, to ensure black people got to vote, without taking a test? Because while everyone in the South isn’t a racist, enough of them get elected don’t they? And those people ensured a state law forbidding the removal of the confederate flag, and made it basically impossible for blacks to vote too.
        That flag flew over the state house from 1961 until 2000, when it was pushed into the faces of everyone who walks by or into the building. That flag stood for the right to own human beings. And it needs to come off of government property. Government property is supposed to represent every citizen, white, black, brown, yellow or red. That flag doesn’t represent every color, it explicitly represents whites. I don’t care if you fly it in your yard, or put it on the graves of your ancestors, that’s your right and privilege. Get it off of my tax paying supported government property.

    • Fallout2man

      LMAO! Your source is “Some guy on the Internet’s blog?!” Really?! I can find sources with more plausibility that says Aliens were chiefly involved in the Civil War.

      Next time, try sourcing something credible, and not some disgruntled moron’s blog, LOL.

  • sisterchef

    What are the chances that Lindsey Graham will read this piece and see how wrong he is??? “Part of our heritage.” That’s right, but it’s part that we should be ashamed of.

    • John

      If you had any significant education, you would be the one ashamed of your self.

  • Frank

    The ignorance of not knowing what the flag is and means…

  • Tiffany Miller

    Anyone clying the confederate flag is a treasonous worthless piece of filth who has no redeeming value as a human being. Every copy of said flag needs to burn and every monument to confederate soldiers torn down. They were not honorable if they had been they would have fought for the union. No decent human being would have fought for the onfederacy

    • Dave Hendrich

      Glad you are so up on u our history Tiffany but along your line of thinking shouldn’t we all be in that group? Why you ask? The founding fathers took ask slot of ideas from that Indian nations about government and then tried to wipe them out and take their land where is you outrage about that part of history? And your words every copy of said flag needs to burn and every monument to the Confederate soldier torn down. Do you think that some of those people from the south just jumped on the bandwagon and said, as the we’re told that that north was horrible and we should leave because it was baloney and they said yes you are right.instead of finding out what was going on for themselves. We as a country have a lot to be sorry for and also lot to be proud of. But we all need to find out the history before we condemn it. Or we can be sheep and follow the heard, but, that takes guts to think for yourself.

    • Flossie

      Are you as opposed to all flags flown by a country or entity who owned slaves?

    • Tommy Crane

      Some things you should know…the emancipation proclamation only freed slaves in the states in rebellion, not the whole country. Also there were entire companies of soldiers made entirely of freedmen (free blacks)that fought for the confederacy.Finally, even though I’m a proud Texan and southerner, and an American ( not so proud with our current idiot president), I should hate all of these governments. My ancestry is part Native American, and all the immigrants that came to MY country stole our lands!!

    • Janet Waters

      It is interesting that the “unlike” buttons don’t work so all the dislikes can be seen!

    • Flossie

      “The North went to war to hold the union together, NOT to free the slaves.”

  • Pingback: I Called Out Those Who Take Pride in the Confederate Flag, Here Are Some of Their Absurd Responses()

  • Maria Edmunds

    The flag represents hate and fantasy about white superiority!!!

    • Flossie

      Uh….No. The flag represents the time in history it came from. You can’t rewrite history. Slavery was an accepted practice all over the world. America didn’t invent slavery.
      No one wants to assign any collective guilt to other slave owners or to ancestors who sold their rival tribe members into slavery.
      In fact, whites were the first people to stop slavery in modern times, whereas slavery still continues in Africa to this day. In Mauritania slavery was only made a punishable offense in 2007.
      5% of the black slaves transported across the Atlantic actually went to America, most went to Latin America to serve Hispanic slave-owners.
      Anthony Johnson was one of the first African Americans to have finished his
      services as an indentured servant and become a landowner and a slave-owner.

      White folks in the South did not invent slavery or make a flag to promote it.

  • Paul French

    Apparently he doesn’t know history!!

  • Daniel Smith

    The author obviously needs a history lesson. Progressives ignore what actually happened and pick through what they want to believe. The south was phasing out slavery. The south was trying to make an alliance with Spain who was antislavery to solidify the souths independence. Lincoln however spewed propaganda to prevent that and wrote the emancipation proclamation which its goal was only enforced post war.

    • RBR

      You should check your facts. Spain wasn’t anti-slavery. For example, slavery wasn’t abolished in Puerto Rico until 1873, and that was thru abolitionists efforts of men such as Segundo Ruiz Belvis and Ramon Emeterio Betances.

    • ॐ Ðaηi ♀ εℓa ツ

      Haha, that’s just *phunny* =)
      Looks to me like you are the one in need of some history lessons.

      If the south was phasing out slavery, why did they vote for the ANTI-abolitionist running for president, and seceded right after the PRO-abolitionist won the presidency?

      You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. There are libraries filled with them, you know?

      • milothefierce

        History lesson: Lincoln wasn’t actually pro-abolitionist until after the war started and he realized that was where he could get the most support. Read through some of his earlier statements on slavery and equality.

      • Fallout2man

        Yes, that’s true, but the important part is that because he didn’t offer his full throated support of slavery (he had voiced moral opposition, and had worked to stop slavery’s spread into new territories) The South believed fully that he was one.

        They seceded entirely out of fear of what a President Lincoln WOULD DO, they then opened fire on us first at fort Sumter.

    • Annie

      If the south was phasing out slavery why did the declarations and the constitution guarantee slavery forever? Why did they want to extend slavery to the new territories? The flag is offensive to many of the citizens of the former slave holding states. Imagine being black and descended from slaves and having to look at that flag and knowing that “heritage” is about the time when your ancestor was a slave and when, after the war, which the south lost, freedom meant Jim Crow laws.

  • KingMarvel

    The confederate flag represents the state’s right to refuse federal law. Democracy is intended to go bottom to top… people tell the state, state tells the federal, and not the other way around. This is why weed is legal in some states even though it is declared illegal by the federal government.

    • Fallout2man

      LOL if that was correct municipal governments would have more authority than the federal government, so no.

      We have the Federal Government, which is intended to legislate and enforce laws that pertain to the security and general welfare of the entire country. State Governments exist within their own sphere and regulate things that were decided to be best determined at the State level, and municipal governments were formed by the state to make lower level minutiae easier to manage.

      No, States technically cannot declare weed legal. They are committing an act of civil disobedience by passing laws or amending their constitutions specifically to not enforce Federal drug laws, and to support or regulate businesses in state that wish to sell weed so long as the comply with regulations.

      The only reason the Federal government doesn’t start arresting lawmakers and raiding the state is because there is so much popular support behind legalization that they would be in for a real guerilla conflict. That, and I also believe that really only a few politicians actually seriously support the war on drugs except to keep from looking soft on crime.

      The fact they are left alone is basically a situation where enough people in enough places support it to ignore the law with impunity, but not yet change it without suffering electoral consequences.

      • crdiddle

        No, You need to check out the US history of the Federalist vs. Anti-federalist. The Civil War was the culmination of state rights vs Federal rights argument with the hot button issue being slavery. The south being agrarian and the cash crop being cotton they required lots of cheap man hours to maintain their economy. The end of the Civil War brought economic collapse to the south and it did not fully recover until after the second world war. The southern part of this country is still primarily, pro states rights, agrarian and conservative.

        A Democracy, which the US is not, is intended to be one man one vote or power from the bottom up. The US is a republic where the people elect representatives who represent them and starting with Teddy Roosevelt and the progressives we are moving toward socialism an economic system in which the production and distribution of goods are controlled substantially by the government and thus still more centralized power and the idea that the elite know better what is good for people then they do. Historically this typically leads to a dictatorship.

      • Fallout2man

        LOL, the anti-federalists lost when we formed the second government of the United States. There were those whose philosophy involved a strong belief in State’s Rights but the fact of the matter is this has rarely if ever been supported by the supreme court in modern times. As you yourself put it, the civil war and its aftermath cemented the idea that the federal government and federal constitution supplant state laws where applicable.

        The bit about Teddy Roosevelt and Progressivism is a Red Herring. Also, how do you explain Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, France, etc? Those all seem to have embraced progressive ideas without turning into Soviet Russia where the State controlled the production and distribution of goods.

        Your arguments are silly.

      • crdiddle

        Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland and France do embrace progressive ideas and of course by their own definition consider themselves socialist. I’ve spent time in Sweden in the early 90’s when the people staged a “tax revolt” because the tax rate had struck 70-80% of income. Sweden calls it social democracy and was supposed to be somewhere between capitalism and communism. Soviet Russia was a communistic government which is an extreme form of socialism.

        “The bit about Teddy Roosevelt and Progressivism is a Red Herring.” It is a serious statement and totally true. Teddy Roosevelt and the progressive party brought socialistic policies to the US in the New Deal.

      • Fallout2man

        That’s materially irrelevant to the discussion being had. The original poster was asserting claims about how THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT OPERATES.

        He was not having a philosophical debate about anti-federalism, state’s rights, etc. He was making an entirely incorrect statement, and your attempt to correct me on something I was never saying (Straw man anyone?!) only implicates you aren’t really bothering to read before you post.

        I’m not even going to bother with the rest because it’s obvious you either didn’t read what I said or are being disingenuous and twisting both my and your words to somehow support some strange idea that you are even making any point at all.

      • crdiddle

        My apologies, I thought we were discussing: “I Have A Message For Those Who Claim The Confederate Flag Represents Their Heritage, And “The confederate flag represents the state’s right to refuse federal law. Democracy is intended to go bottom to top.” To which you disagreed.

      • KingMarvel

        You guys are on an epic rant but it’s informative. As the OP, what I said or meant was that the flag represented state rights. Like, the idea that the state is more powerful than the federal government. Whether it actually is or is not doesn’t really matter; flags are about ideals. The South still believes in state rights even though they lost a war over that belief.

      • Tim Squires

        One of my best friends moved here from Sweden. She moved here for a JOB!

      • Liza Yellowbird

        And this whole flag debate is the ultimate red herring.

      • Erik Lassiter

        The United States is most assuredly a democracy. Democracy doesn’t mean “mob rule” it means that the public has a say in choosing their representatives.

        Republic simply means a government that does not have a hereditary monarch. Soviet Russia was a Republic. China is a Republic. Iran is a Republic. None of those (were) are Democracies; yet they are all Republics.

        I’m sick and tired of this stupid right wing talking point that wants to equate democracy with “pure” Greek City State Democracy and Republic to “elected representatives” That’s not the case at all. Democracies can have elected representative. Democracies can have monarchs (i.e. the UK) …

        the US is a Constitutionally-limited, Democratic-Republic.

        Educate yourself and quit repeating foolish right wing talking points.

      • crdiddle

        I am afraid sir you are mis-informed regarding these definitions.

      • Bill Adams

        Educate yourself and quit repeating foolish left wing talking points.

        The Constitution of the United States
        Article. IV.
        Section. 4.
        The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,

      • Mr.Conservative

        Fallout2 that’s a lot of words to say nothing. Don’t you think it would have been a lot easer just to quote the “Bill of Rights” Like the tenth amendment ( The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution , nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people) If you look at Article #1 section #8 of the constitution you will see (The congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for common Defence and general welfare of the US, but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the US. I’m not going to copy all of this but what it’s saying is the Constitution really only grants the federal government only two duties or rights over states rights and they are global affairs and military defence . There is no where in the Bill of Right that amends these everything else the feds control are rights they have taken and we idiots have let them do it.

  • Tom Ward

    You my friend need a history lesson do not think for a minute that the north did not have slaves. Everybody wants to make the war about slavery because that is what main stream wants you to believe. Most would not even know a confederate flag if they saw one. The battle flag of northern virginia has 13 stars which represents the 13 colonies. It was agression by the north which started the war. But because of racist groups like the Klan which was brought to you by the Democrats are the reason the flag is deemed racist. If you want to see racism today look at liberals they are the true racist. Because they my friend keep the black community from prosperity.

    • brendalu

      Everyone wants to make the war about slavery because that’s what every single last secession declaration said it was about.

      • Corbin

        That was what was written by the rich slaveowners. The rank and file Confederate soldier had no slaves, and gave not one whit about slavery. What they cared about was a very large Yankee army coming into the South to subjugate them.

    • ॐ Ðaηi ♀ εℓa ツ

      Secession Declaration Exerts. Tell me if you notice a patten.

      GEORGIA
      [..] A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and
      the political organization into whose hands the administration of the
      Federal Government has been committed will fully justify the pronounced
      verdict of the people of Georgia. The party of Lincoln, called the
      Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent
      origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party.[..]

      MISSISSIPPI
      [..] Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery–
      the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the
      product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions
      of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate
      verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none
      but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at
      slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long
      aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its
      consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates
      of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been
      subverted to work out our ruin. [..]

      SOUTH CAROLINA
      [..]The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into
      effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were
      executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the
      non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a
      disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government
      have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of
      Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island,
      New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and
      Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or
      render useless any attempt to execute them. [..]

      TEXAS
      [..] Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become
      one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic
      tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and
      liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her
      own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and
      the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She
      was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the
      institution known as negro slavery– the servitude of the African to the
      white race within her limits– a relation that had existed from the
      first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her
      people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and
      geographical position established the strongest ties between her and
      other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been
      strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the
      government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of
      the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them? [..]

      VIRGINIA
      [..]The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the
      United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the
      twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven
      hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under
      the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States,
      and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their
      injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said
      powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States. [..]

      Source: http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html

    • Annie

      Good grief. Yes, the north had slaves, that doesn’t change the fact that the confederate states seceded and went to war to guarantee their right to own human beings forever. They wanted no part of a discussion by the northern states on how to end slavery, in fact, they wanted to extend slavery to the territories. Read the Declarations of Secession and the newspapers of 1861. The southerners of the time were not shy about declaring that slavery was what they were fighting for. Until today’s confederates acknowledge this, racism will continue. And I’ve heard the flag that flies over the south a “battle flag”, so why is it being flown – where’s the battle?

      • Flossie

        Who are today’s confederates? Are you referring to Southerners?

      • Corbin

        The battle is with the PC left.

    • mj1993

      wow……northern aggession….so progressives put the draconian sentencing laws in place?…..i grew up in oxford mississippi, phuck yuo

    • Steve Anderson

      Mentioning that the KKK was born from the Democratic Party demonstrates your ignorance of the effect of Nixon’s ‘Southern Strategy’, which inspired all of the racist ‘Dixiecrats’ to shift into what has become the modern GOP.

      Following that ignorant observation with “Liberals are the REAL racists…” Makes you look like a complete dumbass.

      • Aaron

        Please name me 3 Senators besides Storm Thurmond who switched from Democrat to Republican during Nixon’s Presidency.

        Or 3 who switched from Republican to Democrat.

        If what you say it’s true, that the Democrat aren’t responsible for the KKK and all the other villainous things they have done, you should be able to point out real switches between the 2 parties.

      • Ellen H.

        In 1948 because the democrats put civil rights on their national platform, the “dixiecrats” formed and Strom Thurmond ran under the State’s Rights party. The pulling away from the national democratic party continued in 1964 with Barry Goldwater winning five formerly democrat states and in 1968 with Nixon taking six formerly solid democrat states. Those states shifted their allegiance, especially in the 60s because of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. So, you are correct. Democrats started the KKK, but the republican and democratic parties have essentially switched outlooks beginning in the 1930s.

      • Aaron

        You didn’t point to any elected officials who switched.

        Just because I state votes for the opposite party, it doesn’t mean that all the KKK loving democrats became republicans.

        If that was the case, you should be able to point out who actually switched.

      • Ellen H.

        So how am I supposed to point out every individual person in a state or states who had been democrat and in the KKK and switched to the republican party? I didn’t say that actual politicians switched but that a region did. With that shift, more republicans were gradually elected from the South. You want to stubbornly ignore that there has been a shift and it started in 1948 with the “dixiecrats”, continued into the 50s and 60s, and ended up where we are today. I never said specific people switched. That was Steve. My position has been that it wasn’t specific senators or representatives but a regional shift.

      • Aaron

        Also, Nixon won basically the entire country so the point is moot.

        Then let me see if I get your logic. JFK wins the south: Democrats not racist

        Nixon wins the South: Republicans racist

        All right…

      • Ellen H.

        Did I say they were racist? No, I did not. You implied that. I pointed out that states that had traditionally voted democrat went republican in 64 and 68. In 68 the five southern states that Nixon didn’t win went to George Wallace who came very close to throwing the election to the House of Representatives with his 45 electoral college votes and 10 million popular votes. I didn’t equate republican with racism. I was just pointing out to you the southern shift that was completed in the 60s.

    • Nora_M

      You do know that men in Charleston fired on Fort Sumter, not the other way around? Given that, where do you get the idea that the north was the aggressor? Also, it was Lincoln’s Republican party that created Reconstruction and protected the right of black men to vote. That was the reason the south was deeply Democrat up until the Civil Rights Act. The south hated both JFK and LBJ for their defense of African American civil rights, and became solidly Republican when St. Ronnie courted them with thinly disguised racist comments. It is all about the history of salvery and racism. All of it. Facts do not change just because you wish to ingore or misrepresent them.

      • Aaron

        Yeah, the South hated JFK and LBJ so much, they delivered almost off all their electoral votes to most of them!

        Good grief the ignorance

      • Ellen H.

        The 1960 election was extremely close with just a little more than 100,000 votes separating Kennedy and Nixon. Also a couple of southern states went to Byrd. In 1964 Barry Goldwater won five of the southern states and Arizona mostly because of a famous commercial called “Daisy girl” which showed a little girl picking daisies with a countdown going on in the background and ended with a mushroom cloud implying that a nuclear bomb had been set off. The implication was that Barry Goldwater would get us into a nuclear war. That really swung that election in LBJ’s favor. Also, keep in mind that it was less than twenty years after the nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan and just two years after the Cuban missile crisis. Nuclear war really scared people then.

      • Corbin

        South Carolina seceded. At the time of Sumter, South Carolina was a nation, not a state. Lincoln tried the legal route, but the legal opinion of the time was the there was nothing illegal about voluntarily leaving a Union they had voluntarily joined. Failing the legal route, Lincoln was not sure how to proceed. South Carolina requested that Sumter be abandoned, and Lincoln refused. South Carolina accepted this, with one caveat; that Lincoln would not reinforce the garrison. Carolina promised the Fort would be provisioned and unmolested. Lincoln dispatched ships to reinforce the garrison anyway, and they were turned away at the entrance to Charleston Harbor. Then South Carolina demanded the Fort be abandoned, the commander refused, and history took its course. Lincoln forced the Confederates hand, knowing it would cause Carolina to take action, and give him the excuse he needed to invade, so the “who started the war” argument is not as black and white as one may be led to believe. Also, the South didn’t become solidly Republican the way you say, until the 94 election Tennessee in particular had Jim Sasser and Al Gore as our senators, both Dems and the state house was solidly Democrat until the mid 2000’s. Also, it was the Republicans who supported and helped Johnson pass the civil rights act, while the Dixiecrats, rebelled against the policies, Democrats all. Yes, 18 of them jumped ship to the Repubs as a sign of disgust at Johnsons policies, but that was hardly anything the Repubs could so anything about, and as we speak, they are all dead to a man. Also, 18 men hardly made up the entire republican party. These are the facts, and are easily checked.

    • Erik Lassiter

      You sir have just spewed forth the most stupid, ignorant bulls!!t that I’ve read today.

    • Beau

      FINALLY! Someone knows the history behind the BS! Thanks Tom for your accurate statements, especially about the Democrat party’s “extra curricular” activities. I remember too well events from the early 60s and what I witnessed firsthand.

    • Proud Southerner

      You hit the nail on the head Tom, thank you! Liberals ARE the ones that keep racism alive. People are so uninformed about American history.

    • wmcpher32

      Northern Aggression? Fort Sumpter is off SOUTH Carolina, and was fired upon by SOUTHerners. Fact, unless you want to make it some sort of conspiracy which is what people seem to want to do when the facts don’t agree with their theory.

      • Corbin

        You’re right. Sumter was on South Carolina soil, and it was fired upon because it was occupied by NORTHerners who refused to abandon the SOUTHern fort.

  • daniel

    Abe Lincoln said if keeping slavery legal would win the war he would do it. He thought it wouldhelp tthe war so he ended it. The war was because we wanted freedom from the Union. I have a great grandfather that died in that war from the Fayetteville nc regiment, so itis my hheritage, moron, just stay up north where your wanted.

    • ॐ Ðaηi ♀ εℓa ツ

      You’re totally misinformed, dude. Pick up a history book.

      • crdiddle

        No, you should be the one to pick up a history lesson. The Federalist vs Anti-Federalist argument started before the signing of the Articles of Confederation in November 1777. The Civil War was the culmination of state rights vs Federal rights argument with the hot button issue being slavery. And yes the secessionist documents being passionate political documents of the time ALL reference slavery but that does not negate the fact that the real issue was states rights vs Federal control.

      • Matty S Mate

        “but wait, just because the states seceded solely because of slavery becoming illegal” we shouldn’t blame it on that”

    • ॐ Ðaηi ♀ εℓa ツ

      The war started because Lincoln, the PRO Abolitionist won the presidency in Nov. 1860. In Dec. 1860, the first states started to secede and in April 1861, the civil war started.

      Here are Secession Declaration Exerts as to WHY they seceded:
      To protect Slavery. No other reason.

      GEORGIA
      [..] A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and
      the political organization into whose hands the administration of the
      Federal Government has been committed will fully justify the pronounced
      verdict of the people of Georgia. The party of Lincoln, called the
      Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent
      origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party.[..]

      MISSISSIPPI
      [..] Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery–
      the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the
      product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions
      of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate
      verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none
      but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at
      slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long
      aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its
      consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates
      of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been
      subverted to work out our ruin. [..]

      SOUTH CAROLINA
      [..]The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into
      effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were
      executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the
      non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a
      disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government
      have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of
      Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island,
      New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and
      Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or
      render useless any attempt to execute them. [..]

      TEXAS
      [..] Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become
      one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic
      tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and
      liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her
      own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and
      the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She
      was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the
      institution known as negro slavery– the servitude of the African to the
      white race within her limits– a relation that had existed from the
      first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her
      people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and
      geographical position established the strongest ties between her and
      other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been
      strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the
      government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of
      the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them? [..]

      VIRGINIA
      [..]The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the
      United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the
      twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven
      hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under
      the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States,
      and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their
      injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said
      powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States. [..]

      Source: http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html

  • Pingback: 10 Questions Everyone Should Ask Those Who Continue to Defend the Confederate Flag()

  • Mack Heath

    well it looks like even the so called smart people failed to learn a thing from History while some idiots complain about whites owning slaves there was blacks who owned many slaves themselves but what most people are missing is both flags are American for better or worse but to claim slavery is a white deal think you might want to do a lot of research cause there have been white slaves in Africa & Lincoln ended slavery and funny part about it is he worked with Congress to get it done he didn’t write a executive order to make it happen hell some black peoples ancestors more then likely was owned by another black person enough said history lesson is over

  • me

    such ignorance. to start with, that’s not the confederate flag, its the w virginia battle flag. secondly, hostilities started from the north, not the south. last, the civil was WAS/IS about state vrs federal rights. The NORTH was responsible for bringing slaves to the US, not the south. The NORTH had just as many slaves as the south did. The SOUTH was actually taking action to end slavery PRIOR to the civil war, the NORTH was not. The NORTH needed the income from the south to fund its government, so they would not allow them to leave the union peacefully as there would of been no one left to pay for it — and so the civil war began. All colors of people fought on both sides. Stop trying to make the civil war about racism, its ignorant. All this article does is promote hatred through stupidity. http://www.rulen.com/myths/

  • BanderaBratt

    Guess what? America has perpetrated some pretty bad things both before and after the civil war and yet we still waive it’s flag proudly as part of our heritage. There are those who look at the American flag in the same way you view the Confederate flag. Sorry, but you don’t get to define what ANY flag means or doesn’t mean to me or anyone else. Your attempt to define what others feel about a flag doesn’t make you smart, it makes you sound like a fascist.

    They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, the Confederacy represented some pretty ugly parts of our history, but those parts were ugly even before the civil war and they were ugly in the north under the American flag for a long time. Slavery was certainly a defining issue in the civil war, but it most definitely wasn’t the ONLY issue or reason that people fought and died.

    A great majority of the south did not own slaves and if people bothered to really study history beyond what they can google, they would know it wasn’t simply about slavery to many of those people. In truth, this article only exemplifies an arrogant and narrow-minded point of view. That seems to be an underlying problem we have today. Too many people casting judgement on others for something as trivial as a piece of cloth. Too many people so arrogant about their opinions that everyone else is, as you quote, “stupid.” This conception that you are right, everyone else is wrong and there is no in-between. This is exactly the kind of sentiment that led to the civil war in the first place, one of the greatest tragedies in our Nation’s history.

    Everyone SHOULD be ashamed that people once thought they could own another human being. That much is true. But we still have many things to be ashamed of in this country and people should be ashamed when they think the color of their skin or their political affiliations, education or religious beliefs make them better than anyone else. Perhaps one day you will look back on this article and be ashamed too.

    I may not be proud of everything my forefather’s once stood for, but I am proud to be a Texan, a southerner, and also a bit of a rebel. I’m also proud to live in a country where a flag can mean to me whatever I wish it to.

    Perhaps instead of trying to isolate and antagonize people with a different frame of reference, you could spend more time trying to understand others, to find some common element you can agree on or at least attempt to see things through their eyes. The one good thing about America is that people have a right to speak freely and to express their own beliefs, even when that form of expression is misunderstood or distasteful to others. Ironically, waiving the “rebel” flag today is an expression of freedom regardless of what it once represented to others.

    • crdiddle

      Very well said!

    • Flossie

      Well said!

    • Proud Southerner

      One word on your post……AWESOME!

      • Sharon Carroll

        I agree you have put the negative into the positive………thanks again..

    • qu4ttro

      This opening statement in your otherwise well composed post taints it: “study history beyond what they can google”. Quite literally EVERYTHING is out there for you to discover and form your opinions, the big difference is how much you’re willing to learn and how far you are willing to go.

    • Richard Lovell

      Spot on!

    • Donna Hardin

      Amen to you! I wish people weren’t so vicious to one another! I am Southern and am proud but not of SLAVERY,but of my ancestry,hospitality,traditions,the music etc. I am NOT nor ever was a RACIST! We had exchange students of all cultures in our home when I was growing up! We loved them each and everyone like family! We never flew a Rebel Flag! I happened to read a post here a day or so ago,and it still bothers me! I am proud of my heritage and that doesn’t mean pride over slavery, for God sakes! Let me share with you what I read here. I still wonder to myself why THIS isn’t RACISM as well:

      “WE ARE GOING TO DRAG YOU KNUCKLE-DRAGGING, SISTER-HUMPING, NASCAR
      WATCHING, COUNTRY MUSIC-LISTENING, SOUTHERN CONSERVATIVE BIGOTS INTO THE
      21ST CENTURY……..WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!!!!”)

      Yes it offended me….I am Conservative and love Nascar,am Christian, and I love Country Music-so that makes me a racist?? I deserve that rhetoric? No disrespect to anyone with differing views,but I truly am upset by this. Am I wrong?

      • Corbin

        You are not wrong at all. The sad part is they feel they are justified in abusing people over something they have zero understanding of, and do not see the irony in what they say. That is why they are to be fought with all vigor. We either resist this abuse, or submit and be ashamed of our ancestors because they say we should, and I will not do that, ever. It is your and our decency they hate, and you can see anything wholesome or a source of pride are attacked mercilessly by the poisonous left.

      • Sharon Carroll

        Donna, every one throws a fit if we see things differently with out its hurting any one….thanks for speaking out, need more to do the same…..all these groups(blacks civil rights movement). (gay rights movement)…. Want all their rights, so in all fairness…..stand back, shut your mouth and live and let live….this Country has bigger Issues to attend to…..let us move on…and all stand up for this Country and quit whining over a Flag…God help us..if we spent all this energy on tryin to protect the Christians who can beheaded…then we will be supporting a cause worth fighting over…..

      • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

        Sharon, I agree with you as well. What we should be doing is watching this administration and keep an eye on what is going on behind our backs while all this bickering keeps America distracted.

      • Rob M Slone Jr.

        Once again some one worried about issues outside of out own country. Why don’t you focus on home first. Why buy a home here and move to another country and not fix the one here up ? Makes sense huh? Worry about home people.

      • Sharon Carroll

        Rob, do not tell me you sit there with Isis all around us and we should not worry…you are kidding right…..who bought a home,then moved to another Country,does not make sense…..but since we are off and running on relocating…….all your big business…..Apple, to just name one used as an example……..we buy their equiptment make them wealthy…they pay us back by taking their money putting it in foreign Countries, give their jobs to foreigners in other Countries..reap the good life.if we loose a War or let Isis take over, a house is the least of your worries……So why should we take a Flag from these people….you have your own opinion, but when some one stands up for their opinion…you have a tantrum……our Government and President is out of control……this should be the issue you worry about……it will take strength and Faith to see us through……I hope you have more than you have shown hear…thanks for your opinion…….BanderaBratt pretty much summed up how most feel about the Flag and Rights Issues…..

      • scott

        Sharon,who signed in NAFTA allowing business to get to Mexico,oh yeah,Clinton.Also,who is ti that makes it hostile to business to make a profit in this country,oh yeah,democrats,15 dollar an hr minimum wage comes to mind,not to mention higher taxes.You liberal morons destroyed a good thing.

      • Sharon Carroll

        First of all, I am not a Moron…..second I am not a Liberal…did you even read or understand what I wrote…at no time did I defend Obama…Clinton…they are the problem….I am sick and tired of supporting Foreign Countries….Big Business who send our jobs over to these other countries..If they cared about any thing besides money….they would support Americans and America by keeping jobs here…..no they help other countries to live better and flourish better than us…….then all these Foreign business men are allowed to come to this country,buy up all the RealEstate they can……..which is enourmous monetarily…….If we were dependent on our selves we would not need Foreign Trade…..thus the saying…….Buy American….But we can’t give up..the Apple Products,Sony or Foreign Cars just to name a few…..Most all Credit Card Business has been transferred to Foreign Countries…try and get in contact with one of them by Phone…and you are speaking to India…Phillipines and Hawaii…..they have the Phone Jobs……..So re-read my email, as nothing you have blamed me for is true……To bring you up to date……I only support Americans…..excluding the ones who make their living off Welfare…To every one else, I just received this mail…I do not know why it has taken so long…I would not ignore any one…thanks for all the replies as we all seem to think a like..if I picked on some one wrongly, please forgive me…I get carried away writing and make mistakes as I am human….have a great weekend….stay strong….be informed…please come back and share more of your thoughts……..

      • scott

        you are right,I miss read your post,sorry

      • Sharon Carroll

        No problem, we are all human…to err…I know Democrates have the right to their opinions..But in Honesty,they the Democrates have caused the problems we are seeing today……..Most will not stand up,but follow….Clinton and Obama are a good example of how Democrates think..And yet, Democrates will defend them to the end……They need to think about further generations, some of which will be their own Grandchildren and their children…You can not walk the line between what you say and what you do…..Liberals want Abortions,Baby Parts being Auctioned to the highest bidder….they do not mind Same Sex Marriage..they think it is ok to be Gay…..pretty much who ever you want to be…….Most have not stood against this Nuclear Treaty…..Trusting again our very worste enemies…..Have we lost so many Soilders so we can have Freedom…now Kiss Assing other Countries, is this the Democratic Way to fight Terriorisium…….Letting Muslims come into this Country making demands of us…….Again this 14 year old student is not a Hero…He was brought up in the way of the Muslim Religion and BackGround….the school blamed for protecting the school…..Get a Grip..Put a few pictures of 911 in front of your face when you want to pass out Sympathy and Honor Real Heroes……Obama. (Democrate that he is) handing out Heroe Badges like Candy to Little Children……Do you still want to be known as a Democrate……..We have endured enough Shame with this Obama Rein..with Hillary Clinton as his back up……We had to watch Christians being Beheaded…Military being Murdered….Other World Leaders laughing their heads off at him and our Country…..Still love this Administration……..We are people not Titles…but I would choose Republican…..at least we have Courage,Bravery and Honor…..we do not think its ok for a Baby to be killed to make life easier for the Woman who is irresponsible about Birth Control….in this day and age with all the options…why so many Dam Abortions………the numbers of Abortions today are greater than the years when we had little or no choice in Birth Control……Do we have such little regard for Life…..To the person living in Texas, who thinks all Texans but he…..are stupid and illiterate….I was born in Texas, the differences in people there is normal.Any where you live has a diversified population…..so more educated than others….maybe not having the opportunities you have had..But please do not put these people down and you do not know their circumstances…..My Father had to quit school at 13 when his father died…he immediately went to work to support his Brothers and Sisters..thus he missed out on Education which would have given him a better life when he had a family of his own…..He sacrificed for others…..do you think I am ashamed of the Humble Way he existed…So while you are patting your self on the back….try thinking about your statements……..I could condem the States I have lived in since leaving Texas….Some are so backward,uneducated and barely make enough to get by…..Education in their day was a Luxury they could not afford….and did not receive Welfare,Telephones and Food Stamps the Government likes to pass out now in our life time…..If these people are so beneath you,you probably need to do them a favor and move else where and take your knowledge and superiosium else where….just do not come here…we have plenty like you already….The persons from the South, there will always be the argument as to the Confederacy Issue…it is a part of History, War happened,it ended……most people should not comment as they were not involved. That Braging right belongs to your Ancestries…lol..lol……Again, leave these issues in the past….I Flew the Flag here in support……no one should have the right to take it from you…if some one does not want to Fly this Flag they do not have to….greater issues than removing Headstones….leave the Dead in Peace……Stop the complaining….stop the Disrespect against one another…..Go do something wort while…..Help out at your Local Fod Pantry,visit a Nursing Home……visit your neighbors….get involved in what matters…….if you want to Fight…….Sign Up and fight for your Country……If things continue on as they are, we will need all the Fighting power we can get…..we will not have the time or energy to listen to this type Bickering….Remember, a name is just a name…it does not make the Man….whether Democrate or Republic…….A candidate will stand out if he has America and Americans as his first concern……Building back a Strong Armed Forces…Protecting this Country at all Costs……A Man who wants better for the next Generation…..good laws to abide by….good health care plans that work…one who will respect the White House,Our Flag,Our History and Our Culture……..We have had to endure the worst Presidental Run I hope I never have to see again in my life time…..one with no .Morals,Respect or Christianity involvement….we can now see that Politics go hand in hand with Family Values and the love of God……one does not work with out the other…..any miss spelled words please disregard as my computer like me has Blimps……..yours truly….

      • Proud Southerner

        OUTSTANDING!!!

      • Sharon Carroll

        Hi, thank you I get winded some times….I just hate it when a few in office in a State take down Flags or change Heritage just because it displeased. What maybe a couple of Social Climbers who feel Disgraced and Tainted by the Flag….so Governor or who ever, can you please take down this Flag for us…we’ll be for ever grateful…No problem,done deal…….I accredit this stupidity to….an example only……….I had an affair…..I feel so guilty about it……if I go and shoot the Man I Slept with, will that change what happened…No it will only make me a Murderess…lol..lol….What I am trying to say is, you can’t change what has happened, no matter what side you were on, it happened…it happened a long time ago…..Neither side need not forget,each persons recall will be different…….Let it go, do not resort to digging up Bodies……You can’t Bury the past,but you can learn from it and move forward…….I say this from my Heart….If I could remove the Representation of the Rainbow Flag over the White House I would…..we have made History during the Obama Rein…..Most of us wish we could turn back time, and not ever heard about Obama or Clinton…….They have done a disservice to all involved….They have used the Blacks Against the Whites to cause Unrest and Turmoil….Similar to the Problems of the Confederacy…….neither side can Trust or Believe in the type of so called Government we have today…..we have Black Leaders pushing Black People to Hate the White People……We have Whites responding back with Nasty Insults and Remarks..The Blacks and Whites have been pushed into situations where sides have to be taken against each other……This Issue is the Police Men……as with every Job or Position, you have Undersiables……no difference here…you have outstanding officers, you have young unexperienced officers……you have Wise Asses with smart mouths….you have the know it all officers……just your normal work place…..except these Employees have Power and Control…….and the right to Shoot to Kill………So how do we pick the type officer we want to pull us over and order us out of the car…..how are we supposed to address nasty situations between an officer and our selves…..I have spoke this many times from experience………a few months back, pulled over only a few blocks from Town….by one patrol car….Black and White Car….Officer approached my car…he was in a Deputy Uniform??????..I still do not know why he was in a Black and White….any way , I asked what I had done…..he said I might have crossed the yellow line on a two way street down town….Two other patrol Cars show up….I’m surrounded by this time…..one officer gets out of his car…..Takes this stance….. Legs spread apart…arms across chest………he then takes out a camera and starts filming……the officer in the other car looks on……the one who pulled me over, puts his body against my car,face in my window and feet under my car…I turn away so I do not have to be in close contact with him……he makes this statement….if you rin over my foot you will be on your way to the Penitenciary the evening…..who uses the word Penitenciary now days…I turned immediately to face him…….I said….what did you say…..he repeated what he said…….my reply was…….remove your F_____Feet………he repeated I was on my way to the Penitenciary …again…..I was smart enough to see where this was heading…..so I said, with .Souricasium……excuse me Officer..Sir may I go now…..he steps away from my car and I drive off……….I call the local Sherriffs Office………they had pulled me over before this..different cops…and I had a ticket for $65.00 dollars…I went in to pay the Ticket and my record was cleared back to perfect driving record……..no ticket no charge….bought me off…..no record no incident….never happened….So he was not dealt with or punished for his actions….what will he do the next time he pull some one over…….Point being…..I am an older white woman,with an Autistic Granddaughter in my car……but this was explained asylum as the officers thought I was a suspect in an earlier robbery days before….well I really must have looked like a criminal and you were so scared of me..you were in my face intimidating me…threatening me…Called cover up by the Dept…..it happens all the time……so it is true…not only to Blacks…..if you took a toll and tell the truth…….My point..the Media can and does exploit to its advantage……as with every thing..believe half of what you hear……same with the Confederacy……the media picks a side to go with and can change sides with out a moments notice…This last Guy Rights event was all planned ahead..the Rainbow was chosen…Face Book had the plans worked out in advance so you could down load and use it on your page…the commercials were planned out in advance…this all took planning…….look at the turmoil surrounding that event……only to play Straight People against the Gay Community..it worked..all the way up yo the President and the White House…….Obama has let his people down…….He has deceived all who voted for him in good Faith…..the smart ones now see the light and have turned against him……So where do we start to Salvage America and Americans…..take our Country back….put Obama and present Congress in the street….We do not need another Clinton or another Bush in the White House….we do not need Grahmn for sure…..but this is all my opinion..you have yours..so vote wisely, not by Party……Vote the individual who can Save America or Die Trying…………yours truly.

      • Proud Southerner

        Wow! I was pulled over for mistaken identity a year ago and was treated similarly. I’m a white man (58 yrs old tomorrow). I was scared for my safety at the time. I’m sick and tired of all this politically correct bs this country is doing. We’re rolling over to the demands of the blacks and homosexuals. Obama has done nothing BUT fueled racism since he’s been in office these last 7 years. If there is a flag that needs burning in America it’s that damn rainbow flag. There are ISIS flags flying in America! There are terror training camps in America that the government has acknowledged. The border is WIDE open! I live in Texas and am proud Governor Perry wanted to do something about the border. There’s nothing more the terrorists would like to see than civil unrest here. Baltimore, Missouri riots etc. We’ve regressed to the sixties. I am EXTREMELY HAPPY to see dialogue like you’ve provided especially on this undoubtedly liberal site. So stay winded my friend and continue the fight. I’m not big on Trump but I like the slogan “LET’S TAKE BACK AMERICA!”. God bless.

      • Sharon Carroll

        Hi, me again…I was born in Texas..so it is my home state…….I also really like Ted Cruz…..he came thru the town I live in and I attended his Rally..he was on Tour headed to other states….I felt honored to be in attendance and have the highest respect for him……I also like Donald Trump, because he is out spoken,can not be bought and I believe he truly loves and cares about America….People may not like or understand his personality..but he makes up for the lack of Mr .Personality by his strength to speak out…to uphold America…..and he does not speak to please any one….I was skeptical about him in the Beginning…..thought he might just be full of Hot Air…..but the more he spoke,the more I listened…….has turned my opinion into the possibility of my Vote…will be a hard call for me as I have narrowed it down to……..Mr.Trump and Mr.Cruz…..I had ruled the others out pretty quick once I heard what they had to say in regards to turning this Country around……The Meek and the Mild will not change a thing,will not stand up for America and use their voice to do so…..we need strong leadership to bring us off our knees and ready to fight for the Previlage of Freedom and this Country……not a Sympatheizer to the Muslims……one not afraid to take on Foreign Leaders and earn the respect of all peoples…one who can set these a Woman’s Libbers straight once and for all…..we do not agree with them and in no way are like them…They are bad examples of Women….sorta like the Women on The View……they are the most miserable,unhappy looking and sounding Women I have ever seen….but TV as we know it, is part of the Decay in this World….Too much Of the Kardashins, too much on Entertainment Tonight……ET promotes most of these people….the Rage has been to have a Baby..and decide later if you want to get married or not…..setting great examples for our young girls…but ET does not miss one of these ladies and does the show around such…..like this should be aired and celebrated around the world..and the term (Baby Mama) makes me want to Vomit..no Throw Up is actually my choice..lol..lol….My area has one major radio station…I once loved to listen to while driving….right before the Gay Rights Movement…this Station had prepared by letting go the two Morning Show hosts….replacing them with a Straight Guy and a Lesbian…..the whole format of the program changed its views and supported Gay Rights….now if you choose to listen to this program….all you hear is this Lesbian talking about her GirlFriend…then they decided to have some one have a Baby for them…on and on and on….you heard where they went on the weekends,which Gay Bars they attended……I though no this can’t be happening…..children are listening to this station..Teenagers and families had listened together before the change in Format….Talk about your despair to have to listen to this garbage…as we did not have a choice..so we had to go to another station……The straight Man, never divulged or talked about sexual preference…but the Woman..AKA Lesbian needed to tell the world about her private life………so the station has promoted Gay Rights…rather than take no side at all…and respect every ones rights…..This is the New Modern America…gone to Hell in a Hand Basket so to speak….But I really believe we will see an extreme turn around in Faith and Family and putting the Church and God first…..We have become such a sorry representation of the ( normal family.)…no respect for Marriage……that change has to come……..if not I fear we will be brought to our knees for the self destruction of Family and the lack of God there in……we may be in for some strong awakenings to the real reality of our turning away from God…….When we may need him the most, he may turn from us……..and let us suffer thru terrible times that may come our way if changes are not made and soon……I have watched in disbelief of these past seven years…….oh my gosh……I just realiazed what I said of importance…..Seven Years……has any one read the book……The Harbingers, I think that is how it is spelled…every thing happens around Seven Years…….there is a short Video about this book..well not really short come to think of it……but it speaks about our DownFall beginning with 911… Bringing us thru today…all the disasters in between….and the warnings we are being given….it is a telling book, not a preaching book…worth the read……well any way…forgive the ramblings…..it is embarrassing at the number of liberals, seems they have sold out…..they go along with any thing and any one who wants to do as they please and have no consequences for their actions….really a sad situation when you think about it……to sell out your Freedom and Country for self indulgences…..to cast God aside…..this is not how I was brought up…..I speak out because no one seems to care enough to speak up and fight for what is right…I’m a fighter…always have been..too Old to change now..So, I will leave it this way and wait for some one to scream and yell at me..lol..lol…….good night………….yours truly

      • Proud Southerner

        I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m watching/listening to Trump more. Cruz will get more Hispanic votes because the majority of Hispanics are like the black majority, they vote on race or name only, not what the candidate believes in. If one believes in the Bible like I see you do, they can see that us straying in the way of decadence and immorality is leading our nation to the finality that Sodom and Gomorrah absorbed. The true believers are the ones keeping God’s blessings with America now but everyday America strays. Liberal President, liberal media, shoving immorality down our throats and brainwashing our children is leading to the rapid decay of America. We can’t say God bless you in school or pray or even allude to God without being punished. Well we don’t know what real punishment is yet! When God abandons us, and soon to happen I believe, we are going to be in that hand basket you alluded to earlier. You mentioned The View. I watched that a couple of times and was absolutely horrified of the crap that was spewed! That program should be ripped off the air and burned! We are suppose to ACCEPT homosexuality and gay marriage, transgender (BTW he’s still Bruce Jenner and always will be) legalized marijuana etc. I’m ranting now lol.

      • Sinni

        What’s wrong with homosexuality? I’m asking honestly. I want to actually understand this mindset. Does it just personally disgust you? Do you have any scientific or factual evidence to it being wrong?

        And I will say that if it’s because of religion, that’s intolerance. If your religion is allowed to do things than people who have different beliefs do to, so long as it falls with in law.

      • Sharon Carroll

        I forgot…..Happy BirthDay……..yours truly

      • Proud Southerner

        Thank you!

      • Proud Southerner

        Oh BTW, I do like Ted Cruz.

      • JJ truth

        Well said.

      • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

        No, you are definitely no wrong. No one but a true southerner can understand the southern way of life. People who posted something like what you just shared want everyone to step in line like a bunch of robots. I am very offended as well.

      • We is a cowards word. Meaning you must have support. Knuckle- dragging is making a remark about blacks..the rest is anti-white hate..Donna your correct…and you belong on this site about like I do..

      • JJ truth

        Knuckle-dragging means dragging someone against his will. Meanwhile the one being dragged is holding on for dear life to something backward, cherished but harmful with fists clenched so that they won’t be moved.

      • You know nothing of the white man.

      • Wrong again! Failing to see the sub- human in these animals and what they have done to my America and my white brothers and sisters ! ! You continue to use our government to receive a free ride off the back of taxpayers. When the s••t hits the fan, lead will be worth more than gold!!white liberals must go first.

      • JJ truth

        First of all you filthy scumbag the only animal is you! Another thing blacks, Asians, Mexicans worked, still work, pay taxes and have paid taxes for an unjust, bigoted government that robbed them of their rights, dignity, justice and even their lives. The first to go will be your ass. The Confederate flag(a dirty, shameful, rebel flag) is now rightfully relegated to the dustbin of history. Its been 151 years too late. Should’ve banned the abomination right after the Civil War. But better late than never. The South is a blight on the Union. America has NEVER been a white nation at no time. People of color have always lived & toiled in America. This was Native Indian land to begin with you freaking, stupid idiot. Now get outta my face.

      • Where I come, knuckle-dragging for you means your daddy is a negro. The south was out manned,gun with no food. Your friend Lincoln slaughtered about 650,000 good men..but I’m very glad the second writing of the 15th amendment so us white slaves could be free..your only half as smart as I. Living in so crap hole that taxpayers pay for. So your proper name is stupid and we can not fix stupid..

      • Chrissy Freeman

        You are sadly misinformed and need to do some real.history research. Southerners are in NO WAY close to being Nazis! That’s absurd! I suppose you believe that the civil was over slavery and Abe Lincoln free the slaves too right?! WRONG!! The civil war was over taxes and the south freed ALL slaves WELL BEFORE the civil war ever broke out! Abe Lincoln was the biggest racist of that time! Do your research and stop talking about things you obviously know not too much truth about.

      • JJ truth

        You are a pathological liar. Delusional to the nth. I’m not buying your garbage. The American South is full of racism, hate and bigotry it will never change. I guess all those blacks being beaten at Trump rallies are being giving love taps? Get out of here with your lying.

      • JJ truth

        Civil War was about keeping the Union together and the thing which splintered it was the south and its slavery vs. the rise of abolition. Lincoln was an abolitionist president. The south didn’t free any slaves. The South was burned to bits and smashed by the Union armies lead by Sherman, the Indian Fighter. The Union armies also contained thousands of runaway, escaped slaves fighting for their freedom. God has spoken through history. Judgment: the south was evil. The Confederacy belongs to the dustbin of history. Its insane how misinformed, some southerners are in truth. They live in the long ago past and have become detached from reality and delusional about history, unable to accept truth.

      • I see you have never killer a black communist. A day is coming for your removable. You thugs have rubbed the thug remover the wrong wag

      • Concerned Granny

        Ms. Donna you just summed up everything I was thinking. Thank you

      • James Brown

        Gettem, sweetie.

    • Creeayshun Sighuntist

      The Confederate flag is directly tied to the Confederate cause, and the Confederate cause was white supremacy. Period. Those young men who fought for the south and died were fighting for a treasonous group of states who wanted to continue the proud tradition of white supremacy. That flag stood for a brief moment in time and that time is over. The US flag has been flown in many wars all around the world for many years, the rebel flag has not. I’m sorry you don’t feel any pride in the US flag, as most traitors to the USA don’t, so you probably aren’t alone. So much for southerners being patriots today….

      • BanderaBratt

        You don’t know me, so don’t insinuate I don’t feel pride in the American flag. I own many different historical US flags, teach early American history in my free time and spend a great deal of time studying the subject. While you are free to your opinions, I think you missed the point of my reply.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Apparently you’ve missed the point of what the confederate flag actually represents. I hope, in all of your spare time, you don’t actually ‘teach’ any children that it represents anything other than a sad time in our history. To teach children anything else to the contrary would be irresponsible. Please tell me you aren’t dumbing down southern kids even more…..

      • JJ truth

        He or she shouldn’t teach children history. Guess he/she taught Dylan Roof some history too?

      • Tiffany Mitchell

        The Civil War was started over the very same thing the Revolutionary War was started over; taxes. Slavery, and the abolition of, came into play as a political tactic which is why you can find quotes about it. Abraham Lincoln hated black people. He could have cared less whether they lived or died. He just wanted to cripple the Southern opposition. Also, over 50,000 black men, who were free black men, picked up arms and fought for the South by choice so no, it wasn’t just about white supremacy. And if Grant had his way, slaves would have never been freed. And if Lincoln hadn’t been shot he would have sent them all back to Africa. They were from the North.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Alexander H. Stephens, VP of Confederate States of America:

        “But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.”

        Explain that…..

      • Helton Twila

        So why is their a movement by a group of blacks that carry that flag and defend her,they died in that war also,they were promised freedom if they fought ,so they did.Do you think that slavery wasn’t there when the U.S. flag was flown??? How about the confederate flag isn’t about slavery at all but about people being proud to be from the south,blacks and whites,people like you keep race an issue,we all have the same color of blood.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Talk to Gov of SC, Nikki Haley and Strom Thurmond’s Son (Sen Paul Thurmond, SC). They both think it’s a symbol of hate and the represent South Carolina.

      • Shane Bush

        So a governor and a senator said it is a racist symbol?I feel so much better about it now.They actually violated a state law when they took that flag down.Did you know that?I figured that you did since you are so smart.Look it up for yourself smartguy.The South Carolina Heritage act of 2000.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Try to keep up…they were only two of MANY, over MANY years. Since you are so mad, maybe you should overthrow the government then smart guy. although, do you find it strange that law was enacted in 2000? Hmmmmm….lol

      • Helton Twila

        Yeah,like I would believe a any politician,I put my money on the sons and grandsons of those who fought under that flag,they KNOW what went on.Some people think for themselves,others believe whatever they are told to believe…that war started over taxes and because the SOUTHERN states wanted to secede from the Union. It was not about black and white,it was about North and South!

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        You know NOTHING about what went on, obviously. So taxes….taxes on what? Please cite your sources…..And not some apoligist’s version from 1890 or later. The real reasons are all over the declaration for secession….

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        BTW, .002% of a population is not a movement. Those are the outliers. I’m sure Allen West is a big fan too…

      • Helton Twila

        So you are one of those that vote for party,no matter what,right? I happen to think Allen West is an amazing man,so is Ben Carson,bet you don’t like him either…I vote for the man that wants unity not division by race,which is what we have in our white house right now.Remember,United we stand…Divided we fall?

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        If you want unity, then you voted for Barack Obama. Did you vote for President Obama, twice? If not, you are lying because no republican wanted unity in the last 20+ years.

      • JJ truth

        Life is much bigger than politics. Not everyone fits into a neat little box of democrat, republican, libertarian or independent. Stop looking at people & the world’s problems through politics. Real life is far more complicated, interesting and alive.

      • Helton Twila

        Lol, before your king took office ,this country belonged to Americans, no matter their color ,look at us now…smh. His “free” stuff is NOT free, people WORK and pay taxes for that “free” stuff so if that is what you find so fascinating about your king, then you are just sad. You are probably for amnesty also, why not ,just means you get to sit home on your ass and draw welfare. I have an idea, how about we go back to commodities, so people can learn to cook, how about when people riot and loot ,we put them on the front lines of our wars,( empty the prisons and put them there also) , how about if EVERYONE is responsible for their own actions????? Omgosh, no…you liberals would be exploding with anger.Our country is out of control, drugs, illegals, stealing, murders, but yet…you people do not want them to learn not to do it again, its a vicious circle and will be until SOMEONE who can LEAD starts making common sense decisions and stop buying votes with the so called “free” stuff…do me a favor, get a job, pay taxes then we will see how you like supporting white and black and brown trash ( not all, some actually need a helping hand) but it is meant as a helping hand, not as a CAREER , this is how children are brought up now, that welfare is a way of life…and on and on it goes. Oh..question here, did taking down the confederate flag get rid of racism in any way ??? People crack me up.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        and the only people I know trying to tear this country apart are republicans and Fox and it’s viewers.

      • JJ truth

        Those blacks were under duress, uneducated and had no choice or they were simply evil men. I read they surrendered or deserted as soon as they could so that they could go north. The majority of former slaves fought for the union. They knew a white southern slaver was not to be trusted. Thank God the south fell. Sorry, but it is not a history to be proud of or to be boastful of dehumanizing black Africans under “white supremacy. That’s what the confederate flag stands for always. God bought it down. He was tired of the evil and the gross hypocrisy. Especially since, the slaves were Christian crying out prayers in spirituals. God should be worshipped, not some wicked, treasonous flag of the past. A flag which perpetrated all manner of degradations & evils against those whom God made African.

      • SPECIAL FORCES VET

        The last sentence in your statement brought back what I had learned in Viet Nam that no matter what color skin one lives in we all bleed red. Thank you for saying that.

      • Helton Twila

        Thank you for your service. I mean that from the bottom of my heart ,we would not be free to even discuss such things without you and all our other vets who sacrifice so much.

      • JJ truth

        Agree. Seems many or even, most southerners are in denial about their true role in American history. Seems the south always resented being a part of the union and they are all white supremacists.

    • Blue

      It was declared over slavery. Here it is in their own words.

      http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

    • Blue

      Always left out of this kind of post is that this flag means slavery, lynching, the KKK, the fight against civil rights, segregated schools and bathrooms, and being beaten for daring to vote to a large number of Americans. It means literally being terrified for your own and your children’s lives. That’s the heritage of the damned thing. Pointing that out is anti-fascist, not fascist. This flag is being removed from government property because of that very real history. When you talk about the South, try to talk about all of the people who live here.

      • david

        Hi im only 15, just a couple of things that i would like to point out on why you are wrong. Well for on the flag was not meant to be race matter, Because if you really think about it if that flag is race mattered then so is the American flag they were both used in the kkk era. The so called race flag was meant as never ending embattled meant and the Confederate union was both blacks and whites not one or the other but as a whole. Allso another thing you might wanna think about is one of the first slave owners was black. So sit and think about that one mate. thank you have a nice day.

      • Blue

        No, the Confederacy was just “whites”. Any black soldiers were fighting because their “owners” told them that they’d be given freedom.

      • Denise Smith

        You are such an idiot

      • Blue

        I’m sorry someone told you such a sad and stupid lie and made you believe that black Confederate soldiers fought to defend slavery.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Denise, it’s called, garbage in, garbage out. Your inputs are bad so what you deduce is extremely flawed. You are a product of the sources you take in, and the internet is full of false sources and outright revisionist lies, especially when it comes to the Civil War. Racists have been trying to rewrite this for the past 120 or more years. Just get over it and stop denying the racism the south fought to continue.

      • Denise Smith

        Fighting only for freedom? Makes sense to fight for the confederacy for freedom when they could just go north or escape to a union camp. It never fails to amaze me how people who don’t have civil war knowledge just blurts out whatever pops out of their small minds. Those people never cared less about the confederate battle flag or monuments until some politician decided to be a vampire and feed off the deaths of black people in a church by one nut to further her agenda to racially and her vindictive revenge because she was made fun of as a half Indian when she was a kid because her dad wore a turbon. Keep in mind one of the victims was a black politician as was said he was one of their own. Sounds like revenge to me especially when none of all these ” knowledgeable” (not), people didn’t give a rats ass about anything confederate til that happened. So many fake people who are like the thugs and true racists you defend. There will be confederate losses on monuments and flags but victorys as well. One thing for sure the battle flag itself will always be seen and there is not much anyone can do about it

      • Blue

        It amazes me that you are so ignorant of actual Civil War history and yet so sure of yourself.

        I have cared about that damn flag for decades. It represents white supremacy.

      • Denise Smith

        I am sure of the research I have made effort to seek out the facts of what the north lied about the civil war. After all as they won the war they had the opportunity to write the history of the civil war in their own words covering up many truths against them. People can’t accept or fathom when the truth against the north and the tyranny Lincoln displayed against the southern states who wanted nothing to do with their abusive treatment. If you can say the battle flag which was only that, a battle flag, represents white supremacy then of course you must agree the US flag is more so representative of slavery and white supremacy since it flew on the slave ships and brought the slaves to america. Haven’t seen any comment on that fact by you. So, since this is fact the american flag needs to be removed from all state properties and put away in a museum as being flown for slavery and during the massacres of the native american. My tax dollars pay for it’s display and it needs to be removed. There needs to be a new american flag to represent this country since it offends many people.

      • Blue

        You can research for years, but if your sources are bad your conclusions are bad. And your sources are terrible.

        The Civil War is not some ancient event. Historians have access to the words of Confederate leaders in speeches and newspaper articles and letter. In those letters and speeches and newspaper articles, the leaders make it clear that secession was to protect slavery.

        The battle flag was flown once in defense of slavery and later in defense of white supremacy by those against the Civil Rights Act. The American flag did fly over slave states. It also flew over a nation that passed the Civil Rights Act. It has been redeemed. The battle flag has not.

      • JJ truth

        Your research means nothing but hatred. Lincoln has already been judged as a good man fighting a righteous battle. He always sought counsel from God. President Lincoln belongs to the ages and was our greatest president. And most Americans are grateful for him. Because hence were it not for him America would not exist. Since that time the U.S greatly influenced the world for good. Yes founding a nation is great & difficult. But holding together a warring nation is extremely difficult takes more. Most all nations are ploughed asunder by Civil Wars. Lincoln is rightly enshrined atop Mt. Rushmore and the Lincoln Memorial remembered for his great sacrifice & service to the nation. Speaking evil of the departed says a lot about you not the deceased. Lincoln died knowing he was on GOD’s side. That’s the only thing that matters.

      • Denise Smith

        Out of the mouths of babes. This young man has more sense at 15 than you brainwashed lovers of tyranny. As the saying goes can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Especially when it clashes with the warped mind the pc has. Just get use to seeing that battle flag. I believe people see it much more now than before. Some come down but many more going up even in the north. None of you whiners gave a crap about that flag until the media and some squirrely nikki haley told you it was. Like puppets you jump on the wagon and speak about a subject you just don’t know anything about. I wonder how many of you hypocrites actually have close black friends. Not black people you know but real black friends. I know you will say you do but of course I don’t know you so easy for you to say you do.

    • tjtull

      Do a bit of research on when and why this flag was popularized in the 1950s and 1960s, even why some states started flying it (to oppose desegregation). Then come back and tell us how we should be open-minded about flying a flag on a government building that was used in battle against the United States of America by white supremacists to keep people enslaved. When the very point they were fighting was to abolish this disgraceful practice by those flying the stars and stripes.

    • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

      I don’t care what anyone else thinks or feels about anything. The problem I have is with those, like you, who express what I should feel and tell me what or who I am. How does anyone truly know what is in one’s heart? I’m just sick and tired of this whole mess. No one has a right to tell me what to do or think, nor does anyone have the right to tell anyone else. I only expressed an opinion based on what I garnered from your rambling prose. My opinion is just that, an opinion – the same as your opinion. Take both opinions to the bank and try to cash them, you’ll get nothing. That’s the total worth of both opinions. No one cares what you think. No one cares what I think. That’s the way it should be.

      • JJ truth

        A person’s actions for good or evil reveal & express what’s in his heart. That good enough for you this is how we know what is in the heart. Many wars and suffering could ‘ve been avoided if more people actually “cared about what others thought” Leadership needs people who can put themselves in the other person’s shoes.

    • Sillycibin

      Wow, the first pro-confederate flag argument I’ve heard that has some merit. I could see why Native Americans would find the stars and stripes offensive. I still think the confederate flag needs to be removed from government display. It still represents secessionism which was defeated. Individuals should do what they want.

    • FiachSidhe

      You can’t possibly compare the national flag to a flag created to protest the liberation of black people. Here’s the thing, the difference between the American flag and the modern confederate flag, is that the confederate flag was literally created to support slavery, and the abuse of other human beings.

      The American flag stands for the entire county, the original colonies, and the 50 states.

      If you really think of the confederate flag as something worth keeping around in anything but a museum, you’re probably a bigot. You’re just going to use something like “heritage” to act as a somescreen.

      • JJ truth

        Amen! Its the flag of choice for anti-black American terrorists. The KKK was an anti-black terrorist organization in America organized by former Confederate soldiers. Its a symbol of hatred toward black Americans.

    • Wrong

      • david

        Hi im only 15 and the american flag was all so part of the kkk the reble falg is not ment to be racis never has untill now When one of our own was dumb enough to do what he did at that Church so dont sit there and tell me that the flag is only ment to be raceis because its not, Oh and another fun fact toid that you people keep for geting to put out there one of the first slave owners was BLACK!!!!! So sit and think on that one.

    • JJ truth

      Hypocrisy. You live in America–not the confederacy of slave states. Get over it terrorist.

    • Only thing ugly about is white liberals crossbreeding NEGROS and there knuckles still drag the ground but they good farm equipment. In the 1830’s 1257 free negros owned 3749 negro slave. If can read and think you might then read WHITE CARGO the first slaves sent to America were white last ones freed were white.

    • Denise Smith

      Yes we keep hearing the south lost yet the fools are still fighting over our battle flag. Those people have a fear inside them and they can’t accept that we are still showing pride for our ancestors who have been lied about. Lincoln was a tyrant and murderer. He hung over 300 native americans and committed many acts of tyranny. Too bad he didn’t get assassinated sooner. Also, even today many southern states want to secede and that irks the wicked murderer obama. We from the south have more intelligence and loyalty yhan any yanks could know. Keep flying that beautiful flag. It ain’t going anywhere.

      • Proud Southerner

        I’ve been flying that beautiful flag for years. I’ve travelled extensively all over this beautiful country of ours over many many years and I see that battle flag flown in the North on a pretty regular basis. The anti battle flag ignorants don’t know or don’t acknowledge the evils that have been done under the American flag over decades, even scores. I’m still proud to be an American unlike so many “Americans” that burn the flag, riot and destroy people’s property and even their OWN neighborhood and property. e.g. Baltimore. They need to educate themselves before speaking.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Just an FYI, anyone flying it, ESPECIALLY in the northern states, are racists. There is no reason to celebrate that rag in the north if you aren’t a racist. HTH

        And while we are at this, I keep hearing this nonsense by Republicans that Democrats are supposedly the racists. So are all of these flags you are seeing flown all over the country being flown by Democrats?

      • Denise Smith

        You seem to think your all knowledgeable about the civil war. I have researched the war for years. I doubt you have. FYI not one confederate general or other officer was ever charged or tried for treason. So much for your made up accusation. As a matter of fact Lincoln believe the white man was superior to the blacks and he didn’t feel they should vote, serve on jurys or marry whites. He was the racist. You have no knowledge of truth in anything you say and you have had plenty to say to everyone on here that doesn’t agree with you. You think you know all there is about the war and actually believe your dribble you are spouting. I am secure in my research and anything you say is just garble. You really should stop reading those northern history books. They have brainwashed you like so many others.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Of course you are secure. You get your information from right wing sites that tell you what you want to hear. You are a victim of confirmation bias. it’s easy to discount anything contrary to your view and just not actually acknowledge those facts today when they are ommitted by your “sources”. You are a prime example of garbage in, garbage out. Your inputs are flawed and consequently your outputs are as well. Good luck with that. Enjoy your right wing revisionist history bubble. It’s easy to do….

      • Denise Smith

        I know you can’t accept the truth about the civil war, your hero Lincoln nor the battle flag. It’s understandable your brain has been led all these years to believe all those lies you learned as a little kid. Too bad your brain is still like a little kid today. It’s very upsetting for you to hear the true events of the civil war and the tyranny of the north. As you said its easy to discount anything contrary to your view and just not actually acknowledge those facts today when they are omitted by your sources. So funny I can say the same to you. You say words with no meaning. Your one of those type of people who think when you talk the whole world should listen and believe you. Not happening here. We proud decendants o

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Who said Lincoln was my hero? Don’t put words in my mouth. The fact that you are a southern secessionist apologist speaks volumes for who you are as an “American”. In all of your revisionist history “research”, have you stumbled across who exactly attacked who first? And are you familiar with the reasons for secession? And do you still stand for those “values” or lack of value of human life?

        I see a lot of traitors who wish the south would have won, even though they have zero idea of what actually went on then because they only read right wing racist revisionist history. They just have a hatred for a majority of Americans for some reason. Is that the kind of treasonous southerner you are too? If so, just leave our country. Love it or leave it as they say…..

      • JJ truth

        Lincoln was America’s greatest president and bore tremendous responsibility far greater than other U.S presidents. If it weren’t for Abraham Lincoln, there wouldn’t be an America. Btw his general William T. Sherman, is well regarded as one of the greatest war generals of the ages. He’s still studied in military annals. A fine example of using overwhelming force to quickly end a conflict.

      • I’m probably the only person born and raised in Georgia who would agree with your comment on Sherman.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        BTW, when was the last time you saw an American burn the flag? When exactly was this and what led up to it? Certainly you aren’t referring to something 40 or 50 years ago are you?

        Also “ignorants” isn’t a word. That is truly ironic that you chose to use that word in such a way. You are implying that you are smarter than somebody (or group of people) but you try to make an adjective plural, which only shows you are the real ignorant person here….. This just proves my point that, Proud Southerner is synonymous with dumbshit.

      • Proud Southerner

        Ignorants was intended to be in quotation marks. If you were to correct every misspelled or grammar error on this site your job would be 24/7. This site is referring to a flag that is 150 years old. So we are talking about history. So while we are in history, 40 to 50 years ago is still history, correct? The Confederate flag is burned “presently” yet the American flag has many many more atrocities attached to it that go unrecognized. If the Confederate flag stood for only the abomination of slavery then yes, by all means put it in the museum of history. I never have believed slavery was correct be it here or anywhere. The Confederate flag does not just represent slavery. So it boils down to either fly the American flag for everything it represents or fly the Confederate flag for everything that it represents or don’t fly it.

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        Your words:
        “unlike so many “Americans” that burn the flag, riot and destroy people’s property and even their OWN neighborhood and property. e.g. Baltimore”

        This statement implies you have recently seen MANY “Americans” BURN the US flag, and then promptly go on to conflate that with Baltimore riots no less. So, am I to believe you think you are “more American” than people in Baltimore because you defend a symbol of racist hatred? You minimize and insult thousands of other people (I’m guessing because you think they don’t look like you) while trying to make some point about a flag that has been adopted by nearly every racist hate group in the United States and other countries as a symbol that inspires and ignites their hatred. (yes, that is what that flag actually represents today and has ever since it was initially flown) The flag, to this day, represents that southerners either A) Don’t believe “they” lost the Civil War (not really “they” because “they” never fought and most likely their ancestors didn’t fight either) B) Still believe the Southern States should secede based on racial divisiveness and having a black President C) Are straight up racists who are members of white supremacist organizations or sympathetic to their goals D) Or I guess maybe think it’s pretty and they like to naively look at it because they don’t know what it actually means.

        Think it’s pretty all you want. It represents hatred, racism, and a group of states who fought against the USA 150 years ago because they believed black people should remain property of white people. Period. If you have pride in that, you are a traitor to this nation and everything it stands for and fights against.

        As far as revamping the US flag, since you vaguely point to atrocities the US committed while flying the flag as a country, I think you should bring that up to your Congressman. If the US flag all of the sudden becomes co-opted by every racist group around the world as a symbol of their hatred and racism or desire to commit atrocities, we should definitely do something about that, right after we clean our own house of it’s racists and bring to justice those who committed these war crimes you are referring to. Until such time as our flag symbolizes hate groups world-wide, this one will do.

      • Blue

        Can you accept the reason that black people hate that flag?

      • Proud Southerner

        You are correct on so many things. This site is full of racist hatred. I have encountered many vicious people on here and instead of civilly discussing issues they want to name call and berate us. Frankly, this site is growing old. Keep up the good posts!

      • Denise Smith

        Yes, I have no interest in explaining anything any further to close minded people. I am seeing more victories for our flag as well as losses but I see there are a lot of people who agree with the truth about the battle flag. I am keeping up with flag rallys and the many flags being raised across the country. Keep up the good work because they will continue to rise. Bye bye..

    • Ibeatthestig

      No flag but the American flag should be waved above our country. You are sadly mistaken in your belief system my friend. The fact that you call the Confederate flag a “trivial piece of cloth” tells me you are a frustrated perpetual antagonist, arguing about something that apparently is trivial, and has no real meaning but what you make of it. Fine, wave the Confederate flag it in your home, bur not over “our” land. You forget, you live in community, in civilization with others who’s opinion is equal to your own. That’s why collectively there is a decorum. Try and be a contributing member of the community by suppressing your tendency to be a bigot, and learn to get along with others who don’t share in your fantasy. In Germany, the swastika is illegal. Many Germans complained about that too, but to their dismay, people who could really think the issue through decided otherwise.

  • Matthew J. Dougherty

    you are a complete ass, Incapable of any form of debate, so why waste my time??

  • Proud_southerner

    Excuse me, but you are wrong. I’ve proudly grown up in the south, and I find it pretty sick that the government forces schools to brainwash people to think that the “civil war” (a civil war is a war inside a country, the war of northern aggression was two countries) was over slavery. What sense does it make that confederate soldiers would go out and risk their lives to make sure the very few rich farmers could keep their slaves? And what sense does it make that northern soldiers would risk their lives to free a few slaves in the south, while at the same time slavery was practiced in the north? Wake up folks, “honest abe” said himself he didn’t care if the slaves were freed or not, he just wanted to keep the south in the united states for their tax money. Check out abraham lincon’s letter to horace greely. Also, there is no logic in slave owners treating their slaves like shit. Why would you treat your workers like that? (Yes, slaves were paid). Plus, all slaves were brought to america on NORTHERN ships. A confederate flag never flew on a slave ship. Please wake up and quit believing the lies you are taught in school. Remember the victor writes history. Look it up for yourself, find school textbooks made after the civil war and see how they slowly changed over the years. Its a lie people. When the slaves were “freed” they didn’t want to leave. They had a job, food, and shelter. So before you go making a big bullshit claim that my ancestors who fought and died to try to make a new country that would stay true to the principles in the US constitution were “racist”, do yourself a favor and educate yourself on the truths of the “civil war”. Thank you.

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  • Caleb

    Speaking of prideful ignorance, calling this the flag of the Confederacy is incorrect. It was never the official flag of the Confederate States of America, but the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

  • Flossie

    It’s a flag people. It is not a slavery flag. It was the battle flag of Northern Virginia. It only takes basic knowledge of history to understand the concept.
    Slavery was not created in the South, but no one wants to assign any collective guilt to anyone else. Slavery still continues in Africa to this day. In Mauritania slavery was only made a punishable offense in 2007.

    Less than 2% of whites in America ever owned slaves. Only 5% of the black
    slaves transported across the Atlantic actually went to America, most went
    to Latin America to serve Hispanic slave-owners.

    Do we view any other flags as “slavery flags”? Why not?

  • Ryan Reese

    I also live in the south, Texas to be specific. My problem with all this mess is that people want to make it sound like racial segregation was just a problem in the south. Like you said in your article, “Especially in today’s world. With Google at most of our fingertips and an endless supply of information at our disposal, how can so many people be so incredibly stupid?” Well if you use google you will find out that there was plenty of segregation going on in the northern states as well. Lots of articles talking about segregated bathrooms and water fountains in Minnesota and Illinois. This was not just a problem in the south. The most segregated school system in the United States today is in the state of New York. I’m proud to be from the south, but there dark times in the history of the south, just like there are dark times in the history of the United States. I’m proud to be an American! Before we go and point fingers at just the people of the south, I think we need to take a look at the whole country, because it is a problem everywhere.

  • ^ this guy sucks

    The confederate flag wasn’t even a flag for the confereracy….It was the battle flag for the 3rd battalion in the battle of west Virginia. To anyone that didn’t know that, do your research. Just cause our people now a days associate it, it really don’t mean shit

  • devon

    It was the confederate battle flag never represented slavery and you need to do more research on the people you talk about.

  • chris corbon

    everyone here does realize that the confederate flag was originally flown because a democrat asked for it to be used. This has never been a right wing issue. It has and always will be a democrat that pushes the hate agenda. go look it up. Or is that too much trouble to find the truth and not just what the media wants you to think.

  • Guytano Parks

    …TAKE THAT DESPICABLE RAG DOWN NOW!!!… *The South Carolina Constitution requires constitutional amendments to be approved by a two-thirds majority. But the law regarding the display of the Confederate flag was not passed as a constitutional amendment. It is an ordinary piece of legislation.*

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/22/3672428/big-lie-takes-remove-confederate-flag-south-carolina/

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  • non-native Texan

    This guy needs to get down off his high horse lol

  • Sherry Fuhrmann

    First of all, let’s get something straight. The person who wrote this article needs to go back to school and learn about his history. The history of the Southern states and the history of this flag. The ignorance of his article is just as bad as what the ignorance of his mind is. I am a PROUD southern woman and I am proud of this flag that symbolizes how the south stood up for themselves and my ancestors who died for the south. This flag, you ignorant arrogant asshole, does NOT, I repeat, NOT, symbolize racism, slavery or anything along those lines. Let me educate you, you ignarant ass, notice the stars, how many are there? Notice the colors? Red, white and blue. The original American flag had 13 stars and strips. The confederate flag has 13 stars. The north wanted the south to live how they lived and the south proudly stood up and said we’re fine how we are. Get your facts straight. Oh by the way, HOW DARE YOU EVEN SPEAK IN ANY WAY ILL OF TEXAS, WE HAVE BEEN A PROUD STAND ALONE STATE FOR MANY YEARS AND WE STILL STAY PROUD FOR YEARS TO COME!!!!!! Oh and another thing, I am a PROUD SOUTHERN WOMAN AND I AM IN NO WAY RACIST. You are a disguisting vile thing, not our PROUD SOUTHERN CONFEDERATE FLAG!!!

    • Fool_me_twice_shame_on_ME

      That flag DOES however represent the losing side in the civil war, and as such should forfeit the right to be flying on the state capital grounds for ANY reason. Using your demented logic and defective reasoning, the Germans should expect their swastika flag to be flown in Great Britain to celebrate their proud heritage of assuming they were the “superior race.” Perhaps your discussion could use a little less vitriol and a whole lot more education and sensitivity.

      • Sherry Fuhrmann

        Yeah because Texans are like the germans. I think maybe you should educate yourself a little more before you speak about things. The only reason this flag is under fire is because of what people say. People in the south are always being downgraded. Not everyone here is a racist. We didn’t kill thousands ofpeople like the Germans and the whole war was over money. http://www.rulen.com/myths/
        Go read that and educate yourself a little more.

    • Fool_me_twice_shame_on_ME

      “HOW DARE YOU EVEN SPEAK IN ANY WAY ILL OF TEXAS, WE HAVE BEEN A PROUD STAND ALONE STATE FOR MANY YEARS AND WE STILL STAY PROUD FOR YEARS TO COME!!!!!!”

      And you keep demonstrating your Texas pride by putting forth so many hypocrites, criminals, losers, and lunatics like George W. Bush, Ted Cruz, Louie Gohmert, Rick Perry, Greg Abbott, Ken Paxton, etc. You WOULD be embarrassed if you even had a clue how ridiculous they are to everybody but the folks demonstrating that self-aggrandizing and arrogant Texas ego. And as for that “stand alone state” notion of yours, try reading your Dallas Morning News. They wrote, “In six of the past eight years, including the entire tenure of President Barack Obama, Texans got more out of the federal Treasury than they put in.” As I stated previously, perhaps you are the one in need of an education, even more so than the people you disagree with. LOL!

  • Janet Waters

    This author has come to some interesting conclusions—which is his right to do. HE can FEEL and believe however he wants to. And with that said, he should also realize that other people may come to a different conclusion based upon the facts—which is also their right to do as well.

    Some people choose to believe the Northern narrative that the Civil War was ONLY about the “slavery issue” (specifically black slavery) and others believe that the foundational roots of the Civil War was built upon money, politics, and industry.

    Such as, the Federal Government over-stepping their authority (and the South fought to defend their state’s rights) and this war was waged because of Northern industry tried to destroy the economy of the South. Never let a serious crisis go to waste!! War is desirable—because it makes industry and bankers even more filthy rich, off of the backs of the present day victim (whether that “victim” be minorities, endangered species, or a threatened environmental factor). It is just a matter of creating the right narrative and dialogue to fit the ulterior Liberal objective.

    The purpose of the Rebel Flag was to say “Don’t trend on me or I will strike!” akin to the Gadsden flag (which was associated with Libertarianism and used to rebel against the British) and the Rebel yell differentiated those who refused to allow Liberalism to take over and destroy this Country. Both these flags represent the pride of defending home and country and standing against the foe (even if that Liberal foe mascarades as sheep but underneath are ravening wolves).

    The fact is….Northern industry also continued to have slavery….they just phased out “black slavery” because their machinery replaced the need for black slaves, but slavery continued (they just had a different name for it). They called it Indentured Servitude….which was “white slavery” (specifically enslaving the Irish) who in many cases were living in much worse conditions than the blacks of the South did.

    Black slaves were selling for 50 sterling and the white slaves were selling for 5 sterling on the market. The black slaves were more valuable and therefore a more protected commodity and investment—they were needed to accomplish the harder field work. The Southern Farmers needed them to survive to work the fields and then they sent the produce to the North to process at the factories (who didn’t need black slaves for field work) because they used cheaper white slaves who stood on the lines. The South was dependent on wholesaling to the North because they didn’t have the money to invest in their own industry. The North had a monopoly (because of machinery and capital) they bought the produce of the South (for pennies on the dollar) and sold it retail (with cheaper labor) and they continued to lower what they would pay for produce to bankrupt the Southern Farmers (which strategy still happens today).

    Now if the North really cared about the “black slaves” they would have made it possible for Southern Farmers to also EMPLOY their workers without totally going under. But saving the blacks from hard labor—was the furthest thing from Liberal minds. Racism in the North and the South was well and alive in that era….whether that be racism towards blacks or Irish whites. The North was just divided about the “morality” of having black slaves—while not having issue with white slavery which served their particular interests.

    Now I could see that a person may conclude that the Civil War ONLY involved “black slavery” because that was the Northern narrative (and the North wrote the history books) but then there was the Northern preoccupation engaging in hypocritical “white slavery.” But of course it was not “politically correct” to call the Northern form of “Indentured Servitude”—nothing but a cheaper source of “slavery.” This slavery by the way, has never stopped, but has morphed into the present-day working conditions, which we now support all the “victims” who Liberals use to bribe (with our tax money) to keep them into office to pillage. Such is the heritage of Liberal Socialism and the crowds who choose to support such an industry… as they gladly call it “patriotism” to the United States of America! Hogwash!!

    • Allen Blount

      What an elementary thought process. The biggest spark behind the Civil War was the issue of slavery. Any other issues paled in comparison. Southern states wanted to contiunue profiting off of free labor plain and simple. You know I find it super disingenuous that you would try and present this contrasting perspective between the north and the south to support your theory that somehow this whole thing is relative and there is some sort of gray are when it comes to human chattel. None of anything you said addressed why it’s somehow okay to fly a flag that represents inequality and hatred. Even after blacks were given their freedom, they still had to endure the hell of sharecropping and didn’t have many of the human rights whites had right up until the 60’s. Whether it’s the north, south, main street, or wall street, any form of slavery is wrong. Don’t sit here and try to dress it up or glaze over history. The south’s narrative speaks for itself. Over 400 years of free labor and you want me to feel bad for goddamn poor white southern farmers? The south was built on the backs of my ancestors and the soil was fertilized with their sweat and blood, and don’t you forget it.

  • David Powell

    Then we need to take down the American flag. 85 years of slavery under it and only 4 for the confederacy. The death of many indigenous people. I bet you’re proud

  • Patrick Manning

    I’m Native American am I wrong to see the same hate from the American Flag. HO Back And Check Your History On That asshole

  • Billy Bob Usn Ret

    Fear not the Confederate or U.S. flag. Here in Texas it is rapidly being replaced by the Mexican flag.

  • Renee Carnley

    Then by your logic all of us as United States citizens should be ashamed of our heritage because of all of the hateful things done to the Native Americans.

    • Flossie

      Yes and not just ashamed…. it is their land.

  • Liza Yellowbird

    What a red herring this whole fixation on the Confederate flag is. People need something to fixate on when they feel powerless over an event, and this time it’s that flag. As if stamping out the flag will solve racism or stop a lunatic fringe from their acts of violence. These fringe people and the maniac traumas they inflict don’t arise from a flag, and removing all the flags won’t stop the next mass shooting by a “troubled” white guy, whether it’s in the south, or in liberal Colorado, as we all know!

  • William Svoboda

    To all those who want to do away with the flag of the Confederacy. Here is a little quote from Edmund Burke “Those who do not remember history, are doomed to repeat it”.

  • Mark

    Well swallow this NO Confederate flag ever flew over any slave ship but the Stars ‘n Stripes has! Oh wait, you “progressives” hate the Stars ‘n Stripes as well.

    • Fool_me_twice_shame_on_ME

      Wow! You really had to s t r e t c h that one to somehow justify your argument, didn’t you? Too bad you’re comparing apples and oranges and throwing in a “red herring” to boot. I guess I could counter your illogical argument by stating it was the “Stars and Stripes” that put an end to slavery, while the “Stars and Bars” fought to keep it. I can be just as ridiculous and vapid as you can (but you started it).

  • Robert Louis Sanders

    Well what is next? The Politicians going to make it Illegal for you to fly the Stars and Bars in your front yard or on your vehicle or where ever you desire too? You people with the way things are in this country now if you give the Government an INCH they will try to take a MILE Look at the what is happening we used to be a nation of laws to protect people and their rights and privacy and move toward a nation that takes away those rights and makes laws to protect the rights and needs of the Government and Politicians! I read an article that posted the ratio of shooting between police officers to ethnic groups and it clearly indicated that Police shot and killed three times the White people to Black but the only issues the news media and Politicians make a big deal on is White Officer shooting Black Individuals! Maybe it is the News Media and Politicians who keep the Racist Rant going to keep the people not seeing what is happening in our own Countries Government! Robert Louis Sanders

  • Lynda

    The bible doesn’t justify hate. So I do not know where got that idea from. People of Texas wisen up your own sheriff lock black people up for years illegally just because they were black. The innocent project step in and proved then innocent. And as for gay marriages they are the ones that will stand before got. I for one do not understand whit people can justify so much hate. We all bleed the same color of blood. Take the flag down and stop disgracing the men and women of country. Who by the way we’re both black and white and both fought like hell so we could live in a free society. I see so many unhappy people that are not happy with themselves so they have to blame others. Unless we are free of sin we do not belong casting any stones. I sujest you re read your bible and show me where it teaches hate.

  • Jessie Taylor

    The heritage should be the coming together of all Americans, and the only thing which repersents this is: The flag of the ‘Union’, not the flag of a racist ideology! Take pride in the United States Flag, or the current flag of your ‘State’. A racist idiology was defeated for the good of America and, for all its people and without this historical action taking place, America would not be where it’s today!

    So to honor a flag established by hate, is to dishonor an idiology that currently makes this country great!

  • Sherry Fuhrmann
  • Michael Siever

    Several statues of Confederate figures (Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, and Albert S. Johnston) at the University of Texas at Austin were vandalized overnight, with the words “Black Lives Matter” spray-painted on them. A mutual friend of mine on Facebook said she was outraged, saying that people cheering for this act of vandalism wouldn’t be singing the same tune if it had been a statue of Martin Luther King with the words ‘White Lives Matter” on it. I called out her ridiculous statement, saying that it was an “apples and oranges” argument to compare the likes of a peace-bringer who fought to end racial segregation and end unjust treatments of African-Americans (King) to a warmonger who betrayed his country, and nearly destroyed it because he didn’t want to give up his slaves (Davis). I then asked if she would be singing the same tune if it had been statue a statue of Hitler that had been vandalized, since Davis were more in tune with the Hitler than MLK, to which she replied, “Probably”. My jaw dropped.

    • Michael Siever

      As a descendant of slave owners (yes, I am admitting that publicly here, and no, I am not the least bit proud of that; in fact, I was horrified when this revelation was made to me a few years ago), I can’t believe how ignorant people are when trying to defend statues and flags of horrible, horrible people, saying how awful it is for them to be getting
      vandalized. If you don’t want them to get vandalized, maybe the university should have donated them to a Civil War museum, where they could have them placed behind glass cases with descriptions of all their actions, both good (few and far between) and bad (plenty), to give context and a cautionary tale of why we never want to repeat this ugly, ugly part of our nations’ history. And those trying to equate these people to good historical figures need to re-evaluate their own lives.

  • zahbudda

    Allen…It is ” Southern by the Grace of God”…so fock you ! We of Southern Heritage will not turn our backs on our ancestors…who fought so valiantly against such great odds…We have been demonized for 150 years…and it continues till this day…In reality, Lincoln, Sherman and Bloody Grant were ” War Criminals”…shelling cities for days and night on end… killing Southern children, old men and women…Had we won…they all would have been hanged…and well they should be…So fock you all!…and ” ya,ll come see us now… ya hear”…However much you hate us… we hate you more! Molon labe.

    • Creeayshun Sighuntist

      you are a racist piece of shit. I think it might be time to send a drone or two over your trailer to liberate your town from you. It really must suck to be you and have to deal with being a loser. And so you are saying that the US should have just hung all of your supposed ancestors, because you would have if you would have won 160+ years ago….? Right? LOL….bitter much?

      • zahbudda

        Lick my Southern arse carpet bagger! Be sure and keep my balls up off that cold linoleum… all up in here!

      • Creeayshun Sighuntist

        no thanks. And that is a strange fantasy you have, but not surprising since most of you southerners have no sense of shame or guilt. Go back to raping and molesting your brothers and sisters and leave decent people alone, stupid fucking hayseed.

  • Vernon

    I have lived both north and south of the Mason Dixon line in my almost 70 years on this earth. I saw more racism north of the line than south of it. Black people owned slaves. Black people helped in the capture of black people who were brought to America and sold as slaves. Now in 2015 after a horrific act where a idiot filled with hate who just happened to be white killed some innocent black people, the liberals are coming out of the woodwork wanting to take down a flag. However I bet the same people would scream their lungs out if the next time a white cop was gunned down by a black gang member and there was a movement to remove any Martin Luther King pictures or statues from government property. If the Stars and Bars on government property represent racial prejudice so does the likeness of any black person who was involved in equal rights for black people.

  • Flossie

    Making a big deal about the flag is going to make it more popular than ever.

  • Joel Schoenberg

    It doesn’t matter what race owned slaves, it just matters that slavery is wrong and the confederacy thought it was right and they fought a war that resulted is massive deaths over it. How is that defensible in any way? It’s not, it’s abhorrent and certainly not something to be proud of.

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  • Kevin Carroll

    The confederate flag was dormant for nearly 100 years until the southern democrats revived it as a “middle finger” ( to borrow the words of Eugene Robinson) to the civil rights movement. It has been honored by many southerners ever since including Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. Bill Clinton actually signed a law honoring the flag. .http://www.inquisitr.com/2190474/bill-clinton-signed-law-honoring-confederacy-in-arkansas-flag/

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  • ZZTX

    Clifton …. feel free to secede from Texas at any time. You won’t be missed.

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  • Rodney Carter

    if we’re gonna talk about racist flags, maybe we should remember that Old Glory was the national flag of a slave nation for 85 years prior to the Civil War…no slaves were ever brought to America under the Southern Cross; only the stars and bars…ijs….

  • Robert Travis Howard

    You’re an idiot. First, that flag wasn’t the national flag – ever. Second, you make a lot of noise about southern slavery when the north was just as culpable. Third, if slavery was the issue that the War of Northern Aggression was waged for, why didn’t the Emancipation Proclamation free the slaves in the north? As a matter of fact, it only freed the slaves of the southern states in open rebellion, not the border states, not the southern states that had surrendered, and not the north. Delaware didn’t free their slaves (ratify the 13th Amendment) until 1901. Fourth, black men – free and of their own choice – fought and died with Confederate soldiers.

    Try reading some history, numbskull. Stop swallowing the PC rhetoric for long enough to think for yourself, and maybe do some research.

  • Matt Welling

    The first slave owner was a blackman. The stars m bars meant nothing to liberals until, the kkk hijacked it. Lincoln himself was a racist. Due to Obamas policies, you see the stars n bars being flown on reservations.

    Any legitimate historian knows slavery was on its way out.

    None of you counterfeit morons will do a thing about modern slavery. Assholes must brace it.

  • Jennie Dufour Boothe

    The eugenics that were practiced by The Third Reich, was an idea born and practiced here in the U.S. decades before Hitler.

  • Proud2bChristian

    Sad that the Media has monopolized on the deaths of those good people in Charleston.

  • Commonwealth10

    Texas is not the south…just saying

  • xxbingo

    Grant
    was generous, Lincoln magnanimous, today’s Democrats, not so
    much…….somehow, they are more morally indignant, ’cause they must be
    more morally upright saints…

    • Republicae

      Grant was a slave owner who didn’t free his slaves until after the war and only after being forced to by the 13th Amendment. Lincoln was not magnanimous in the least, he was a course man, viewed by those who knew him as a liar and an political whore. He was a white supremacist who firmly believed in not just segregation, but in the removal of all of the black race from these shores.

  • NIIIIGGGER HAVE DESTROYED USA

    Meanwhile 75 more blacks died across America last night. A rebel flag didn’t kill any of them!

    • Creeayshun Sighuntist

      Thank you for pointing out exactly what we are talking about here. You are the perfect person to speak for that racist flag, because at least you don’t hide that you are a total piece of shit. Thank you.

  • Jason

    Lets just make believe that the Battle Flag symbolizes slavery and lets pretend that slavery was racist. How would one explain the fact that the highest concentration of slave owners in 1861 were in New Orleans and New Orleans that same year had the largest number of black landowners so much so that black land owners out numbered white land owners, oh and that black land owners in 1861 owned more slaves than white landowners,hmmm?

  • 7skuareoff

    Let’s get this out of the way Right Damn Now.
    I ain’t an Uhmerican.I ain’t never been an
    Uhmerican and I don’t want to be an
    Uhmerican, Hell dumb a$$, my ancestors
    fought and died to keep from being
    Uhmericans, chump.

    • Creeayshun Sighuntist

      you migth want to up the meds today. Please don’t just start shooting people today, it’s obvious that you’ve lost your mind so please just go check in to the hospital and get help.

  • 7skuareoff

    Go down Obama, go down to
    Washington and tell them
    Yankees to let my people go.

    Yankees don’t like our flag.
    Yankees don’t like our people.
    Yankees don’t like the way we talk.
    Yankees don’t like our heroes.
    Yankees don’t like our music.

    Their corporations won’t promote
    us above middle management,
    pay us in kind with Yankees,
    or recognize and reward our
    contributions and work.
    They won’t let us on tv,
    on radio or in the movies.
    Hell, Yankees are so damned
    cheap they use Charlie Rose
    as a foot stool and fig leaf
    to cover not one, but two
    Yankee networks.

    Is that the NAACP or ISIS
    blowing up our statues?
    Who’s dancing to whose tune?
    They ain’t playin’ roots
    backwards, they done Played
    roots backwards, clearly, we
    be the slaves and they be
    the masters.

    Ya’ll just put a whole hell of a
    lot of Chinese flag makers out
    of work!

    Hey Yankee: burned any good
    books, lately?

    The solution seems pretty simple
    to me: take down your god damn
    navy bases, air bases and army
    bases that surround the South
    like prison guard towers,
    you ain’t foolin’ nobody,
    they ain’t there to keep nobody
    OUT, they’re there to keep US IN,
    and We Know it.

    Fold up your damn snow bird
    trailers, get the hell off
    our land and don’t come back.

  • Republicae

    We are currently under the weight of a
    mentality that is seeking to purge our history, much like many other
    countries have done in the past, such as the Soviet Union, Communist
    China and the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and a number of others. It is a
    dangerous, and ultimately useless exercise in “feel-good”
    politics and social mind-salve, but it can and will cause much more
    harm and create much more disharmony than good. Who would have ever
    thought that some of the people in this country could whip up such an
    uproar that we would actually consider destroying many of our
    historical monuments, many of which are well over a hundred years
    old. To what end, for what purpose?

    The danger is that we forget that
    history bears witness to our present lives, giving us a perspective
    that cannot be gained in any other way. Whether that history is bad
    or good in our opinion is not the issue, nor should it be, it is
    history and as such it is extremely valuable that we are always
    reminded of that history, that we can formulate critically thoughts
    about such historical events, allow questions to rise in our minds
    and open avenues of understanding that would not otherwise be
    possible.

    Graves are being desecrated, monuments
    and statues removed, what next, shall we have a good ole Nazi book
    burning?

    I am personally appalled and offended
    deeply by these actions given the fact that there was just as much
    racism, if not more, on the Northern side of the conflict; all one
    need do is read the writings of none other than Abraham Lincoln to
    see just how deep-seated and virulent his hatred for all of African
    American decent really was, but that is ignored by all it appears!

    Few know, perhaps they simply don’t
    care, that the South could have easily had slavery protected forever
    if that was what they wanted by just accepting the offer of Abraham
    Lincoln to return to the Union. The Corwin Amendment passed the 36th
    Congress on March 2, 1861 and was to be sent to the States for
    ratification. Lincoln sent messages to the Confederate Leadership
    that if the Southern States would return to the Union that he would
    guarantee the ratification of that Amendment and slavery would have
    been forever protected by the Constitution. Read the Amendment. Now,
    does it make sense that the South would rather go to war to protect
    slavery when they could have easily just returned to the Union to
    have it protected forever by the Lincoln Deal? Perhaps, there was a
    real reason the South Seceded and it had absolutely nothing to do
    with saving the institution of slavery, but no one cares enough to
    seek out the truth.

    Lincoln, when asked what was to become
    of any slaves freed, he said: “Let ’em Root, Pig, or Perish”, the
    fact is that Abraham Lincoln was not against slavery, he was only
    against the spread of slavery into new territories and States, why,
    because he didn’t want slaves to compete for white labor. Few people
    understand that Lincoln’s plan for freeing the slaves was a purchase
    plan, he had been asking Congress for the appropriation of monies to
    purchase and deport every single slave in this country, his plan was
    not to free them and let them build a life in American, no, but to
    send every black slave out of this country! Few people know that
    Lincoln issued a “human blockade” to prevent freed slaves from
    the South entering Northern States. READ IT FOR YOURSELF!

    Here is some information that I found
    particularly poignant, and this is just scratching the surface:

    I had to re-examine my feelings toward the (Confederate) flag
    when I read a newspaper article about an elderly black man whose
    ancestor worked with the Confederate forces. The man spoke with pride
    about his family member’s contribution to the cause and was
    photographed with the (Confederate) flag draped over his lap. That’s
    why I now have no definite stand on just what the flag symbolizes,
    because it no longer is their history, or my history, but our
    history.

    –Terri Williams, a
    Black journalist for the Suffolk “Virginia Pilot”
    newspaper.

    Few people know that of the 130
    American Abolitionist Societies established before 1827, over 100 of
    them, comprising four-fithes of the total membership, were not in the
    North, but in the South.

    Few people know that the first legal
    slave owner in the American colonies was a black man named Anthony
    Johnson, originally from what is now Angola, he not only owned black
    slaves, but also white slaves. By 1652, he was a very wealthy
    plantation owner in Virginia. Of course, few people also know that at
    one time there were 1.5 million white slaves being oppressed in
    Africa in the 1700s. By 1776, there were more slaves held in
    servitude in the North than in the Southern States. In the old South,
    around 4.5% of the population owned slaves, many only one or two.

    Now while this may be shocking, unlike
    the Northern slaves, because of the Laws of Southern States, slaves
    in the South were paid a weekly wage, in many States, if they worked
    overtime they were paid extra, they were given Sundays, rainy days
    and holidays off. On Saturdays, they were allowed to work their own
    land, grow and sell their crops. Each year, they also were given a
    weeks worth of free holidays, such as Christmas, Good Friday,
    Independence Day, etc.

    It has been estimated that nearly a
    million Southern blacks were in the Confederate ranks, including
    serving as combat soldiers. Black Confederates included both slave
    and free. Of course, Northern Armies were segregated, in the
    Confederacy, there was no segregation in the ranks, whites fought and
    died beside each other. The Confederate Congress did not approve
    blacks to be officially enlisted as soldiers (except as musicians),
    until late in the war. But in the ranks it was a different story.
    Many Confederate officers did not obey the mandates of politicians,
    they frequently enlisted blacks with the simple criteria, “Will
    you fight?” Historian Ervin Jordan, explains that “biracial
    units” were frequently organized “by local Confederate and
    State militia Commanders in response to immediate threats in the form
    of Union raids”. Dr. Leonard Haynes, a African-American
    professor at Southern University, stated, “When you eliminate
    the black Confederate soldier, you’ve eliminated the history of the
    South.”

    DURING OUR WAR OF 1861, ex-slave
    Frederick Douglass observed, “There are at the present moment,
    many colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty not only as
    cooks, servants and laborers, but as real soldiers, having muskets on
    their shoulders and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down …
    and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government.”

    Dr. Lewis Steiner, a Union
    Sanitary Commission employee who lived through the Confederate
    occupation of Frederick, Maryland said, “Most of the Negroes …
    were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederacy
    Army.” Erwin L. Jordan’s book “Black Confederates and
    Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia” cites eyewitness accounts of
    the Antietam campaign of “armed blacks in rebel columns bearing
    rifles, sabers, and knives and carrying knapsacks and haversacks.”
    After the Battle of Seven Pines in June 1862, Union soldiers said
    that “two black Confederate regiments not only fought but showed
    no mercy to the Yankee dead or wounded whom they mutilated, murdered
    and robbed.”

    In April 1861, a Petersburg,
    Virginia newspaper proposed “three cheers for the patriotic free
    Negroes of Lynchburg” after 70 blacks offered “to act in
    whatever capacity may be assigned to them” in defense of
    Virginia. Erwin L. Jordan cites one case where a captured group of
    white slave owners and blacks were offered freedom if they would take
    an oath of allegiance to the United States. One free black
    indignantly replied, “I can’t take no such oath as that. I’m a
    secessionist.” A slave in the group upon learning that his
    master refused to take the oath said, “I can’t take no oath that
    massa won’t take.” A second slave said, “I ain’t going out
    here on no dishonorable terms.” One of the slave owners took the
    oath but his slave, who didn’t take the oath, returning to Virginia
    under a flag of truce, expressed disgust at his master’s disloyalty
    saying, “massa had no principles.”

    Horace Greeley, in pointing out
    some differences between the two warring armies said, “For more
    than two years, Negroes have been extensively employed in belligerent
    operations by the Confederacy. They have been embodied and drilled as
    rebel soldiers and had paraded with white troops at a time when this
    would not have been tolerated in the armies of the Union.”
    General Nathan Bedford Forrest had both slaves and freemen serving in
    units under his command. After the war, General Forrest said of the
    black men who served under him “(T)hese boys stayed with me …
    and better Confederates did not live.”

    It was not just Southern generals
    who owned slaves but northern generals owned them as well. General
    Ulysses Grant’s slaves had to await the Thirteenth Amendment for
    freedom. When asked why he didn’t free his slaves earlier, General
    Grant said, “Good help is so hard to come by these days.”

    These are but a few examples of
    the important role that blacks served, both as slaves and freemen in
    the Confederacy during the War Between the States.

    The flap over the Confederate flag
    is not quite as simple as the nation’s race experts make it. They
    want us to believe the flag is a symbol of racism. Yes, racists have
    used the Confederate flag, but racists have also used the Bible and
    the U.S. flag. Should we get rid of the Bible and lower the U.S.
    flag? Black civil rights activists and their white liberal supporters
    who’re attacking the Confederate flag have committed a deep,
    despicable dishonor to our patriotic black ancestors who marched,
    fought and died to protect their homeland from what they saw as
    Northern aggression.

    They (black Confederates) don’t deserve
    the dishonor……Walter Williams

    Few also know that there were black
    slave owners, this doesn’t dismiss the horror of slavery, but it does
    illustrate that the view of slavery then and the view we hold today
    are very different. One of the largest black slave owners in South
    Carolina was once a slave himself. It is estimated that there were
    nearly 200 black slave owners in the State of South Carolina alone.
    By 1830 nearly 3700 freed blacks owned nearly 12,000 slaves. In
    Charleston, my city, between 1820 and 1840, 75% of the free blacks
    owned slaves, furthermore, nearly 25% of all free blacks in this
    entire country owned slaves. We should also not forget the fact that
    literally tens of thousands of Native Americans also owned slaves.
    Slavery was not simply a black and white issue.

    When the South started Secession,
    Lincoln was asked, “Why not let the South go in peace?” To
    which he replied, “I can’t let them go. Who would pay for the
    government?”

    Most Union Generals and staff had
    slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served
    him until well after the war was over and did not free them until
    late in 1865, so did Ulysses S. Grant! When asked why he didn’t free
    his slaves earlier, Grant stated “Good help is so hard to come
    by these days.”

    Lincoln was a bigot, a white separatist
    that sought to create an American apartheid, he wanted, planned, and
    passed several acts through Congress to deport the entire black
    American race from these shores, creating a white country from shore
    to shore! Few know that Jim Crow Laws were universal in all of the
    Northern States, but very rare in any of the Southern States. Few
    know that in all of the Southern States, the laws stated that any
    slave could, at anytime, purchase their freedom, the same was not
    true in the North, once a slave always a slave.

    This is a very telling quote of
    Lincoln’s, just a few days before issuing his Preliminary
    Emancipation Proclamation, he spoke these words to a group of
    clergymen: “I am not so sure we could do much with the blacks. If
    we were to arm them, I fear that in a few weeks the arms would be in
    the hands of the rebels; and, in deed, thus far we have not had arms
    enough to equip our white troops.” Lincoln knew that the many of
    the blacks that had been impressed into military service in the Union
    army were loyal to the Confederacy and he feared that by arming the
    blacks he would essentially be arming the Confederacy, for he knew
    they would dessert the Union.

    When you read the writings in The Slave
    Narratives, you will find the horror that blacks were subjected to by
    Union troops, black women were raped, tortured, beaten and even
    murdered, perhaps that is why the nick name among Southern blacks for
    the Union troops was “Blue Devils”. Black men who resisted being
    forced into the service of the Union army were bayoneted and shot on
    the spot by their Northern “emancipators”. Of course, those
    unfortunate black individuals who didn’t escape the clutches of their
    Northern oppressors, were used as shock troops, sent in battle first,
    taking the brunt of the horrors of war. Lincoln, in a letter to James
    Conkling on August 26, 1863 stated as much: “Whatever negroes can
    be got to do as soldiers, leaves just so much less for white soldiers
    to do in saving the Union.”

    Lincoln nearly all freed blacks into a
    force that could only be called forced labor, essentially, they were
    enslaved once again. In fact, the Capitol Dome was completed by slave
    labor under Lincoln.

    We rarely hear accurate numbers
    concerning the war, but the real estimates are that 12.5% of all
    Southern whites died and 25% of all Southern blacks died as a direct
    result of Lincoln’s war. Think about that for a while. It adds up to
    about 1 million whites out of a population of 8 million and about 1
    Million blacks out of a population of only 4 million, it was truly a
    bloodbath in the South. Horrifying, but Lincoln knew what he was
    doing, indeed William Tecumseh Sherman told Lincoln that they would
    be considered War Criminals, and rightly so!

    Why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery
    only AFTER the war was over? The so-called “Emancipation
    Proclamation” of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the
    SOUTH where he had no power to free them! NOT in the North where he
    had the power to free them! the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th
    Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment /
    free the slaves) until 1901!

    The US flag flew over a slave nation
    for nearly 90 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it
    as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and
    it’s commodities. It wasn’t until the South decided to leave the
    Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive
    without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.
    “I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with
    with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists.”
    Abraham Lincoln, March 4, 1861

    “We didn’t go to war to put down
    slavery, but to put the flag back.” Reverend Charles Lester,
    1861.

    “My paramount object in this
    struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or
    destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave,
    I would do it.” Abraham Lincoln, August 22, 1862.

    “Any people anywhere, being
    inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake
    off the government, and form a new one that suits them better. This
    is a most valuable, a most sacred right, a right which, we hope and
    believe, is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to
    cases which the whole people of an existing government may choose to
    exercise it. Any portion of such a people that can may revolutionize,
    and make their own of so much territory as they inhabit.”
    Abraham Lincoln on Secession, January 12, 1848.

  • Elizabeth Metcalf

    Considering that the men who wrote the Constitution said that secession was one of the rights guaranteed by the Constitution and further guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, then it is impossible for the southern states to have committed treason by seceding, in fact by the definition of treason written into the Constitution it could easily be argued that the troops and officers that invaded the south without declaration of war were guilty of treason. There is a reason that not one single person was tried for treason following the Civil War, they couldn’t even find anyone who was willing to prosecute Jefferson Davis, however many were willing to defend him including many northern lawyers. Since the government could not afford to have their case defeated in court they just dropped it altogather.

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  • donny dunlap

    Haha your article was cute. You claim that the confederate flag is a sign of hate from the white race towards the african race. Well I’ve got a small history lesson for you. Before 1654 there were no legal slaves in America (yes, some people did own illegal slaves) but slavery was not accepted legally yet. they were considered indentured servants and were freed after 7 years of service. (Which was still wrong but not the point) A man named John Casor was an indentured servant working for Anthony Johnson (An african american). Thats right a black man who owned other black men. Casor was set to be freed but on his 7 year mark Johnson got greedy and wouldn’t free him. Casor ran away and was captured and taken to court where Anthony Johnson won amd became the first court legal slave owner in America. So the only thing ignorant in is country today isn’t the confederate flag it’s the fact that every african American who complains and gripes and thinks that the white race owes them something can get over it. Slavery happened over 300 years ago and it was technically the African American race that made it legal. Yes there are some southeners that take that pride too far but we dont owe the black race anything and the sooner they realise that the sooner we can get to truley being equals. Until then…

    • Blue

      Black people aren’t “complaining and griping”. YOU are complaining and griping about trivia and you don’t have your facts straight.

      Slavery ended in 1865, not “300 years ago”. Slavery was allowed and defended by the law up until that date. As soon as the war was over, Jim Crow laws and the KKK prevented black people from advancing economically. Redlining was legal. All of this legally protected economic explotiation of black people has resulted in centuries of theft of labor from people over their skin color. Current, living black Americans are impacted directly by these laws because of out and out theft of money and chances at home ownership and education that allowed for advancement.

      The confederate flag is a symbol of hate and murder, just like the swastika.

  • Debbie Carter

    history is in stone its our past and are present and here we R. every american past present and future need to now how far weve come and where we were and be proud of the accomplishments. and quit taking are rights to freedom and quit intertaining the ignorant Fools. Freedom of Speech and Likes or Dislikes. HOME OF THE FREE AND THE BRAVE I Believe. ineveryone even the bad! and everyone has the right to percieve the flag anyway they feel to me I believe Rebel thats me. Dare To Be Diffrent. THATS MY RIGHT (AMERICA)EVERYBODY WANTS IN America. THINK ABOUT THAT ONE??? WHY??? FREEDOM. THIS IS STILL AMERICA ISNT IT.

  • SheilaCris

    Old Glory flew over slavery a lot longer than the confederate battle flag. Very few Americans owned slaves, you’re trying to tell me that all those southerners, less than 5% of which owned slaves, actually fought to keep slavery and not to keep their state’s rights? 4 slave holding states remained with the north. Their slaves were not freed until AFTER the civil war was over. If you are gonig to blame a flag for slavery, perhaps it should be Old Glory?

  • john Patridge

    Well then! If we are going to get rid of all symbols of hate let’s take down the American flag too! It is a symbolic representation of a culture that displaced and just about exterminated the native American population and also supported slavery before the Civil War! Oh yeah slavery was in the beginning an American issue not just a southern one! We should probably get rid of the Texas flag too, It represents a bunch of slave owning anglos who were given a very generous deal from the government of Mexico and then returned the favor by rebelling and then treating the native Tejanos like third class Citizens! We should probably should also drop George Washington and Thomas Jefferson off our currency since they were slave owners! We could also start a petition to see if Egypt will level the pyramids since they too were built with slaves! Also much of the Roman Empire was built by slaves, Maybe we should tear down the colisim in Rome! Of course all this sounds absurd and it is! These people who are full of zeal to destroy everything Confederate need to grow up and go find a cause that is more tolerant of other people’s feelings and traditions! Yes slavery was wrong but slavery didn’t begin and end in the South it has existed since the beginning of time and has always been worldwide up till recent times! Just except that not everything is going to be the way you want it. Learn to respect other people’s cultures. It is also not practical or realistic to judge a culture or society by today’s standards. A society that lacks tolerance for other people’s traditions (Confederate flags and memorials) is a society that lacks maturity.

  • AtomicMetroid

    We need to take down the Israeli flags in America because they are a symbol of hate, racist supremacism, apartheid, genocide and land thievery. I want them all taken down immediately and will fight to see that it happens. We also need to ban Golds Gym shirts. No more dual citizens should be able to hold office. Either you are American or you are not. Another thing that needs to happen is secession from the yankee/Zionist lunatics. We will have two unions. Civil war is eminent. and this time will be very different. The north won’t have the French and Queens British armies helping them.

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  • Kenneth Bomhan

    Well Sir you speak as if the North did not have slaves during the Civil War. The Slave boats were Union and Dutch never once under a Southern Flag. I do not condone slavery but it was part of our history as a nation fact. The Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in a state of rebellion meaning if the Confederate States laid down their arms slaves would be kept, and he did not want the boarder states to fully succeed to the Southern States. William T Sherman Union General on his march across the south to the sea gave the order Scorched Earth entitling his men to loot, rob, and rape White and Black, Women alike and to take any able bodied negro that was able to do labor and I bet they were not paid burning and vandalizing unarmed civilians. Today that would be war crimes like the Nazis committed. Out of the thousands of black mean he took hundreds died from exposure, hunger and sickness. Robert E. Lee gave orders against this type of behavior. It was a bad time of our history but don’t sit on your high horse preaching one sided bullshit that is what is delusional. After the Civil War Racism Existed only in the South I think not. I have had black people tell me today the North is more racist than the South. Yes I know you will bring up the Jim Crow laws Why did the federal government not over turn them sooner? The great migration north after the war my wife had a book written by an ex-slave who went up north to a mill. In his eyes he was treated better in the south under slavery then in the post war north. This is what pisses me off slavery is wrong and but it seems the north is sliding all the blame of racism to the South. There are many Black people here today that carry the Confederate Flag and you people make fun of them or say they are misguided. Now we accept them as our brother and sister southerner and you call us the bigots. If we were so racist now would we not be fighting over them carrying that flag? The South has been for the most part today well at least in North Carolina been great with race relations. The New South has Risen Again and this Time we are doing it right no matter if you are black or white we stand side by side and always together show our Southern Pride!. Another history note your top general Grant and future president held on to his slaves way much longer than Robert E. Lee. Grants Quote from History why ( Good help is hard to find) So sell your partial history bullshit somewhere else. And as far as the flag and hate groups like the klan they adopted the US flag and used it only 40 years prior to grabbing the Battle flag of the Confederacy. In the 1920s they marched to Washington DC everyone of them carrying the US flag not one Confederate related flag used and still using our American flag which has more history with these groups. You speak of people being stupid well here is a solution to the problem rather than fighting among ourselves and picking on each other why don’t you help get legislation to get both Our National flag and Our Historical flag out of these hate groups hands. You speak of Patriotism during WWII the USS Columbia flew the Confederate Naval Ensign from her yardarm her entire Pacific Campaign. Like I said there are a lot of black people too in the south that like and carry that flag and we accept them but your side seems to put them down and again who is the closed minded bigot? Don’t look on that flag pole in Columbia for a symbol of Racism and Bigotry look in the mirror their is you Symbol sir.

  • Chris Laughlin

    The southern Cross never flew over any southern states, it was a battle flag that free African Americans as well as white men carried into battle in northern Virginia. You are a moron in the highest possible meaning. You need a history lesson and stop spreading more bullshit lies.

    • Creeayshun Sighuntist

      Sure wacko….just because you read it on the interent, that doesn’t make it true. You, have zero idea of what you are talking about, but I expect as much from a small minded racist.

  • DJ Cross

    America admitted the last state in 1959 but blacks were STILL fighting for rights into the 60’s right?

    Well, if you look at it from your point of view then, the American flag is RACIST!
    Our Nations flag is stained with INNOCENT blood. Not only from within our own borders but for all the ILLEGAL aggression against other countries such as Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, ect, ect.

    Now before you jump on the bandwagon, I have NO LOVE or RESPECT for ANY Moslem!

  • Todd Carpenter

    I’m amazed at all the so called facts being thrown around on this page. Everyone seems to think that it was just the South that had, held and wanted to keep slaves. Why is it that every time this issue hits the airwaves, the South is the lone “bad guy?” If I recall correctly, Northerners also had slaves and many, just like the Southerners, did not free their slaves until well after 1865. Also, it would be wise for folks to do a little research on the so called “Confederate Flag”. It actually went through several changes in how it looked because initially, it was felt that it too closely resembled the flag the north carried. A follow-on version was also believed to too closely resemble a flag of truce.

    This is the flag that was adopted as the National Battle flag.

    The Confederate Battle flag (below) was just that. A battle flag. It was carried into battle by several armies such as Northern Virginia and Tennessee. It was never a National flag. This then begs the question, How could it then have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? The north made a tremendous fortune on the backs of slaves and the goods they were used to produce. So too say that the whole issue lies at the hands of the south is not only ridiculous, but a misrepresentation of the entire truth.

  • Sharon Carroll

    Thanks BanderaBratt…….keep your own opinion posted..

  • melanie

    Certainly informative. We live in a community that one of our best high schools is known as the rebels and it wasn’t till recent years they stopped flying the confederate flag at rallies and games. After an uprising in negitive Attention brought on by the debates of what it truly represents. For preservation of history I believe we must not forget or bury so as not to repeat the same mistakes.

  • minorhull

    I reckon the easiest way to reply to this gentleman is to say this. “Pack your bag and go back where you came from”! My family fought in the Civil war and under the Confederate flag, which the Battle flag is not, but it is still a banner of the South. One which idiots like you will only make me display more than I already do. SO KISS MY PROUD SOUTHERN A**!

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  • Robespierre0753

    President Obama said it himself: Not to demean the Confederate soldiers who fought and died for that flag, but to point out they fought for something that was wrong [I’m paraphrasing]. That flag has caused so much harm and pain. It’s an evil flag and has no place in America. Put a few of them in museums and burn the rest.

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  • The real issue is that progressives want to transform the country by denigrating all activities that occurred after 1491 as ultimately racist, sexist, classist, and all the other “ist’s.” To this end, they want to socialize not just the United States, but to dissolve it into a global society which would be run with a progressive agenda. Now if you are a progressive, this is a GOOD thing. When the GOP realizes this goal, they will reengage in the political process, but I don’t see it happening. Progressives will ultimately prevail, and therefore strife must never go away.

  • Johnny Smith

    I Think we have bigger fish to fry than worrying about flags, we have terrorist that are trying to kill us and destroy America itself and you’re sitting here talking about flags, all the while terrorist Are sitting back laughing at us and just waiting for us to destroy ourselves, how petty is the subject!

  • Claude Dowden

    You forget there were more slaves in NEW YORK at the beginning of the slavery question than the South, the FIRST slave owner in New York was a BLACK male, after the Civil War there were more members of the KKK in Indiana than any southern state. Where is your rant about the Mexican flag being flown above the US flag, the display of the Nazi symbolism, the muslim flags, including isis, and how about the gay flag with the stars on it. I will admit slavery was wrong and should have never happened, , but you should understand that the Africans enslaved in American were not the first people in history to be enslaved. The Africans sold into slavery in American were captured and sold to the slave traders by OTHER Africans and it is still being done today (07-01-2015). Your rant is that of a progressive that evidently has no background in history. However, what makes this nation so great is that you are entitled to your opinion no matter how stupid it is

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  • Ashley K. Lambert

    Omg…We are stupid? ignorant? Sorry, I guess you don’t know about growing up in the South! That’s your issue not ours, leave!

  • Ricky Sisson

    Why did Lincoln take almost two years to sign the emancipation proclamation to free just the slaves in the rebellious states? The first two years of the war it was “to save the Union.” the 13TH amendment (after) the war set all the slaves.

  • Boyd Timothy Babcock

    That you don’t get it does not surprise me, I am willing to bet there are a lot of things you don’t get.

    You are like most liberals you are nothing but a bag of emotion run like a dog in heat. There were very few soldiers who owned slaves. In fact there was a law exempting slave owners from military service. But I bet you don’t pay attention to any history not rewritten by PMSNBC. Don’t want a confederate flag don’t buy or fly one, but never try to tell me your for free speech when its clear you and your liberal ilk are only for free speech you agree with. Your disgusting as a human and not an American.

  • jackie cox

    Sodoms Obama and ass associates take down our Christian-cross, American flag, Confederate Flag, while lighting up our government center with the colors of sexual predators—— That’s the side your own when you deny our heritage and the right to be proud of ancestors

    If you were us the. You would think as we, if we were you the. We would think as you

    Disrespect our own ight to be who we are while forcing your way of life on us and watch the end of your heritage and Way of life in our free nation, soon to be resurrected.

    We are not a natio. Of white hate, faggots or victims of homosexual predation.

    We are a nation of Christians and will tolerate those who tolerate us. Your intolerance is noted as soon as we ride our government of rulers and replace them with people who govern you will find yourself in our path, the blocking of path to Truth is not one that passes time.

    Change or perish

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  • cathcapall

    What a shoddy piece of fiction. Lets not consider how that the first slave owner in the colonies was a Black man. And lets not consider that there were a significant number of Blacks who owned Black slaves. Let us further, not consider that there were also slaves in Northen States, but the “Emancipation Proclamation” only freed those in the South. Let us only consider what the “Great Emancipators” views were about Blacks.

    Black educator, Lerone Bennett Jr. addresses this topic eloquently in his book, “Forced Into Glory”. Of President Lincoln Mr. Bennett writes;

    “If Lincoln had had his way, Martin Luther King Jr, Oprah Winfrey, Jessie Jackson, and even Clarence Thomas would have been born in slavery…. and millions of twentieth-century Whites would have been in ‘Gone with the Wind’ instead of watching it.”

    Perhaps Lincoln’s own words will illustrate exactly how he regarded African-Americans. The following is part of the Presidential Archives, and the quote thus can be found not only at the Smithsonian, but also in the Congressional record. The following quote was made at a conference at the White House to which Mr. Lincoln himself had invited a group of free Black Americans. Amongst the things he discussed was the colonization of “people of African descent”. The date of the conference was August 14, 1862, less than five months before the “Emancipation Proclamation. He stated for the record;

    [Begin Quote]
    “Why should people of your race be colonized, and where? Why should they leave this country? This is, perhaps, the first question for proper consideration.

    You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong, I need not discuss; but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think. Your race suffers very greatly, many of them, by living amongst us, while ours suffer from your presence. In a word, we suffer on each side.

    If this is admitted, it affords a reason, at least, why we should be separated.

    You here are free men, I suppose. Perhaps you have long been free, or all of your lives. Your race is suffering, in my judgment, the greatest wrong inflicted on any people.

    But, even when you cease to be slaves, you are far yet removed from being placed on an equality with the White race. The aspiration of men is to enjoy equality with the best when free, but on this broad continent not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of our.”
    [End Quote]

    Oh yes, an enlightened man indeed this demigod Lincoln, and all of the people of the North. Of course he was the man who supported the “Black Laws” of Illinois, and who attempted to take away the safe haven of Washington D.C from runaway slaves. And that should be enough to condemn the whole of his lot, and to bury away forever the hypercritical notions that the North was good and the South evil for the sake of slavery.

    Congressional records quote Lincoln’s plan to ship former slaves under arms to Panama to dig the canal, and then to send all survivors back to colonies in Africa. Liberia was in fact such a colony. And now, why would blacks fight along side of whites in the Southern Army? Perhaps to avoid a worse slavery? Perhaps to avoid being sent back to a worse fate in Africa? Perhaps those here who would charge otherwise should read the facts for themselves.

    Regarding the Confederate flag, the esteemed Black journalist and intellectual, W. Earl Douglas, of Charleston, South Carolina, wrote concerning the Confederate Battle Flag:

    “If hate had been the prevailing emotion between the races, then it is a safe bet the Confederacy would have never been born. Fortunately there was love, understanding, and compassion. And the two greatest lies ever perpetrated by history are 1) that the south instigated the war, and 2) that it was fought by the North for the purpose of freeing the slave. The Negro was merely used as the excuse for that war. While the reason for it is reflected in every area of our lives. For the tentacles of government formed the bars of a new slavery. No, don’t fold that Confederate Battle flag. Let it wave all across the south to remind Americans that there exists here a yearning for liberty and independence that will not be denied. Let it fly as a testimonial to real men and real women who would rather work and fight than shed tears and beg for government charity.”

    I think I’ll believe a him as he would seem to be speaking from fact rather than a Socialist political agenda.

    Lerone Bennett Jr’s, Forced Into Glory, Johnson Pub, 1999, 0-87485-085-1

  • eileengunsher

    Why are people arguing over something almost 200 years into our history? There are no more slaves in America. Oh wait this is wrong, there are sex slaves (in America and in countries throughout the world), there are slaves to the government paying huge taxes, there are slaves to addictions. Slavery will always be around in one form or another. Why can’t people see this? Why can’t people worry about what is going on now? It is time to get rid of the hate and move on to things that are happening now.

  • HelloDali

    Wrong again.

  • LazarusDark

    there are definitely racist cops in the South, but its generally understood that those cops are acting wrong.
    Meanwhile, in the North, in the bastion of liberalism, New York has racism as OFFICIAL government policy, aka Stop and Frisk. I’ve never heard of such a thing in the south. Combine that with all the racism in Chicago, LA riots and such and I begin to wonder if there isn’t more racism in the north and west coast than here in the south.
    I GUARANTEE you that more racism has been perpetrated under the US federal flag than under the confederate. Slavery existed just fine under the US flag for a hundred years, then after emancipation, segregation and the like exited just fine under the US flag for like 75 more years.
    As stated in other places, the state governments of the south were controlled by the rich elite, in the same way that the US government is now controlled by corporations. In either time period, the US federal government and the Confederacy do not necessarily represent the ideals and interests of the majority of the population at all times. I could go on and on with further arguments, but I’m tired of repeating it honestly. If anti-confederate flag people want to continue living in ignorance, go ahead. Getting rid of the confederate flag will not alter racism even one tiny spec. It is all just a means of trying to further oppress Southerners, white and black.

  • Donna

    Well, if Southern pride is going to be abolished by removing the Confederate flag, then I guess it is time to abolish Black History month as well because that is just as racist.

  • Kelly Babbit

    What year was it the Civil Rights
    Act was passed??? Hmmmmm wonder why the north allowed all those “racist
    laws” to even exist once they won the war?????When the Civil War ended, 19
    of 24 Northern states did not allow blacks to vote. Nowhere did they serve on
    juries before 1860. They could not give testimony in 10 states, and were
    prevented from assembling in two. Several western states had prohibited free
    blacks from entering the state. Blacks who entered Illinois and stayed more
    than 10 days were guilty of “high misdemeanor.” Even those that
    didn’t exclude blacks debated doing so and had discriminatory ordinances on the
    local level…..You really need to look at what the North did during & after the
    Genocide of half a million Americans

    It wasnt the south that marched on
    northern territory and burned towns that contained not one southern soldier but
    only women & children- who were raped and slaughtered. The north brought
    the fight to them and it wasn’t over owning any slaves- something that the
    Great Republican Honest Abe had no interest in abolishing, Stalin & Hitler
    probably took notes from Lincolns strategies ..

    Ask yourself why you would be so pretentious
    in expecting Americans in a PRE-INDUSTRIAL
    era to suddenly comprehend that slave labor was racist instead of the way of life since the beginning of time in
    every society ??? (still is in the
    middle east and parts of Africa)Seriously- there was no John Deer to harvest
    the crops and you are demanding that history be altered to fit what you deem
    truth.

    Fact is slavery would have naturally
    been abolished as it was already on course to do so just like it did in almost
    every society. Only The Great Republican Abe Lincoln saw fit to slaughter over half
    a million men women & children in order to win a federal war.

    Southern Pride is remembering the
    ones who were raped & slaughtered.

  • Donnie E.

    I travel a lot and let me tell you that every state that i have been to up north the mid west and the north west are all the same.When it come to lower class of people they call Whites. trash or trailer trash they use the N word to describe young black.New Jersey residence calling illegal Mexicans wet backs or Mideastern people WAP that stand for “With out Papers”A lot of americans don’t even know why the civil war was started the North needed cheap cotton the South mostly made up of single family farms did not have people to work on these plantations so the north as much and the south decided on importing slaves for Africa and other places the North had slaved even presidents had slaved northern army officers had slave.Lincoln said before and during his administration if he could stop the confrontation at first and then war he would free some slaves and leave some bondage so take your part of racism and stop being a hypocrite Americans are racist to some lower and the criminal class people

  • Alan

    The war wasn’t about slavery; it was about money and consolidation of power. How hypocritical is it for agents of the federal government,
    which owes its existence to the colonists exercising their rights to secede from Britain not even 100 years prior, to claim that no such right
    exists?

    • Blue

      The South seceded over slavery, the Union invaded over secession. The war was about slavery.

      The colonists WON the right to secede through war. The South lost their war. No right to secede exists under the Constitution.

      • Alan

        1. Doesn’t matter if you think the Constitution recognizes a right to secession; rights aren’t dependent on their being written down. If there was no law protecting the right to life, does that mean there isn’t one?

        2. The colonists won the right to secede through war, did they? So if they won this right in the American Revolution, then where was this right when their progeny in the south wanted to split? Or is it that you have to win your rights on a case by case basis? If the latter is true, then that seems rather like my right to owning a car being dependent on me constantly thwarting attempts by others to steal it. Or do I only have a right to my property because it’s codified somewhere? I’m not sure what your logical framework is for this idea, but at this point it sounds like it amounts to “might makes right”, and I strongly disagree with that.

        3. The first founding document of this nation, the Declaration of Independence–while not strictly law, does articulate the rationale and moral defense for our secession from Britain–states that the proper role of government is to secure individual rights, and that whenever a government becomes destructive of that end, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it.

      • Blue

        You said: “1. Doesn’t matter if you think the Constitution recognizes a right to secession; rights aren’t dependent on their being written down. If there was no law protecting the right to life, does that mean there isn’t one?”

        If you understand the Constitution like that, why even bother to have one?

        There are laws against murder. There is no a law saying “You have the right to life”. Are you trying to cram every imaginable issue into the discussion?

        You said: “2. The colonists won the right to secede through war, did they? So if they won this right in the American Revolution, then where was this right when their progeny in the south wanted to split? Or is it that you have to win your rights on a case by case basis? If the latter is true, then that seems rather like my right to owning a car being dependent on me constantly thwarting attempts by others to steal it. Or do I only have a right to my property because it’s codified somewhere? I’m not sure what your logical framework is for this idea, but at this point it sounds like it amounts to “might makes right”, and I strongly disagree with that.”

        The Colonies won, the South did not. This is considered by many historians to have settled the question of whether or not states have the right to secede.

        Your property rights are codified. Secession is not. Does that clear that up?

        You said: “3. The first founding document of this nation, the Declaration of Independence–while not strictly law, does articulate the rationale and moral defense for our secession from Britain–states that the proper role of government is to secure individual rights, and that whenever a government becomes destructive of that end, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it.”

        Yes, true. Then the South decided to secede over the issue of slavery-which is the opposite of seceding for individual rights-and they lost.

      • Alan

        Why bother to have one? Because rights are more likely to be protected if they are codified. As the Ninth Amendment states though, the fact that some are codified should not be construed to deny or disparage others which are retained by the people.

        You’re really questioning the right to life because laws prohibit murder? Again, going back to the Declaration of Independence, “…that among these rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness…” At the risk of seeming cheeky, you really should study and understand this foundational document (among others) if you want to make sense of human rights. We have specific laws against murder, manslaughter and in varying degrees in order to protect the right to life.

        “Your property rights are codified. Secession is not. Does that clear that up?” Yes, it’s perfectly clear that you are enamored of legal codes. Do you have any concept of right and wrong, independent of what is law? Surely you would not claim that because there were laws upholding slave ownership, that it was right? So I believe you understand that there is some extra-legal way of determining the morality of a thing, yet when I defend the right of secession on moral grounds, you point to the lack of its codification as a mic-drop, stage-walk-off worthy argument against it. It seems that you’re picking and choosing between opposing lines of logical argument depending on which one furthers your point at the time.

        You should know that the Constitution didn’t attempt to list all the rights that people and states have; the whole framework is built upon the idea that the federal government has the powers delegated to it by the states, and the powers which are not specifically delegated to it are retained by the states, or the people (see the Tenth Amendment). Not only does the Constitution not give the federal government power to compel states to remain members, but it doesn’t even make sense to believe that the states would have intended this to be the result.

      • Blue

        You said: “Why bother to have one? Because rights are more likely to be protected if they are codified. As the Ninth Amendment states though, the fact that some are codified should not be construed to deny or disparage others which are retained by the people.”

        It was a rhetorical question. Get it?

        You said: “You’re really questioning the right to life because laws prohibit murder? Again, going back to the Declaration of Independence, “…that among these rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness…” At the risk of seeming cheeky, you really should study and understand this foundational document (among others) if you want to make sense of human rights. We have specific laws against murder, manslaughter and in varying degrees in order to protect the right to life.”

        What are you going on about? I simply pointed out that there is no specific statement about right to life, but there are laws against murder. These comments are not relevant and appear to just be grandstanding on your part.

        You said: “Your property rights are codified. Secession is not. Does that clear that up?” Yes, it’s perfectly clear that you are enamored of legal codes. Do you have any concept of right and wrong, independent of what is law? Surely you would not claim that because there were laws upholding slave ownership, that it was right? So I believe you understand that there is some extra-legal way of determining the morality of a thing, yet when I defend the right of secession on moral grounds, you point to the lack of its codification as a mic-drop, stage-walk-off worthy argument against it. It seems that you’re picking and choosing between opposing lines of logical argument depending on which one furthers your point at the time.”

        Enamored of legal codes? You are on the verge of babbling here. Again, I am pointing out that there is no method specified in the Constitution for dissolving the Union. Your response is to claim it’s still OK. You might want to look at what the Constitution says about treason.

        You said: “You should know that the Constitution didn’t attempt to list all the rights that people and states have; the whole framework is built upon the idea that the federal government has the powers delegated to it by the states, and the powers which are not specifically delegated to it are retained by the states, or the people (see the Tenth Amendment). Not only does the Constitution not give the federal government power to compel states to remain members, but it doesn’t even make sense to believe that the states would have intended this to be the result.”

        You are mistaken. The Constitution was written to rectify the errors of the Articles of Confederation. The Constitution does away with the Articles of Confederation. The initial document was a huge failure. The Constitution creates a Union, not a Confederation. The Southern states signed off on it. Yes, the states specifically intended this to be the result-that we were a Union. States therefore cannot secede. A Union with states entering and seceding at will would be chaotic.

      • Alan

        Yes, I get that you posed a rhetorical question, implying that there is no logical answer, except that I provided one. Ball’s in your court on that point.

        “What are you going on about? I simply pointed out that there is no specific statement about right to life, but there are laws against murder.” OK, so why did you bother to point that out? I’m not sure how that furthers your argument…

        I am aware of the Articles of Confederation and that the Constitution was an attempt to rectify the shortcomings of it. But that in no way changes the fact that the Constitution was written in such a way as to explicitly define a set of powers which the federal government is to have. It was not intended to create a government superior to the states in all spheres. It was granted authority over states in very specific and limited ways, with the idea being that there are some things that are appropriate to be handled on the national level, and everything else should be left to the states or to the people.

        For example, look at Article I, Section 8, where those specific powers are enumerated. Also, in the Federalist #45, Madison wrote, “The powers delegated by
        the proposed Constitution to the
        federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in
        the State
        governments are numerous and indefinite.” And look at the Tenth Amendment, which states “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”

        I could go on, but these are a few prescient examples to support my claim that the Constitution created a very limited federal government, which has only those powers expressly delegated, and nowhere in it have I seen any power to compel members to remain in the union. In fact, at least three states, upon ratification of the Constitution, declared that they reserved the right to secede. Why would their ratification even be valid if they included a condition that was not allowed?

        You seemed to indicate that secession is treasonous, and invited me to look at what the
        Constitution says about that, so I did, and here’s the text: “Treason against the United States, shall
        consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies,
        giving them Aid and Comfort.” Doesn’t sound remotely like secession to me. I think it’s also interesting that the word “them” is used instead of “it”, in referring to the United States. The very document which establishes the union seems to recognize the preeminence of the states to the union itself. In light of this wording, it seems that in waging war on so many of these states that Lincoln was actually guilty of treason, per the Constitution’s definition.

        Look, this is getting out of hand and this is probably my last post. I think you’re smart enough to understand that people absolutely should have the right to throw off a government that doesn’t represent their interests anymore, as was the case in the American Revolution. And I fully agree that insofar as the south wanted to secede in order to keep slavery, they were wrong, but they weren’t wrong in seceding, they were wrong in enslaving people, and let’s not forget that happened a lot in the north as well! Secession is not only a natural right, but the possibility of it acts as a check against the consolidation of power by those on the national level, and that’s a great thing. We have far too much authority exercised by career politicians who have virtually no connection with what real life is for those they govern, and that’s a very dangerous situation.

      • Blue

        You said: “Yes, I get that you posed a rhetorical question, implying that there is no logical answer, except that I provided one. Ball’s in your court on that point.”

        I see, the problem is that you don’t know what is meant by “rhetorical question”.

        You said:”OK, so why did you bother to point that out? I’m not sure how that furthers your argument…”

        I temporarily decided to follow your meandering thoughts. My bad. I’ve tried to keep us focused but you don’t make it easy.

        You said: “I am aware of the Articles of Confederation and that the Constitution was an attempt to rectify the shortcomings of it. But that in no way changes the fact that the Constitution was written in such a way as to explicitly define a set of powers which the federal government is to have. It was not intended to create a government superior to the states in all spheres. It was granted authority over states in very specific and limited ways, with the idea being that there are some things that are appropriate to be handled on the national level, and everything else should be left to the states or to the people.”

        I’m glad you’re at least aware of it. We don’t live under it. The Constitution sets up a Union. While the states do have certain powers, they don’t have the power to secede. The Federal government has ultimate control.

        You said: “For example, look at Article I, Section 8, where those specific powers are enumerated. Also, in the Federalist #45, Madison wrote, “The powers delegated by
        the proposed Constitution to the
        federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in
        the State
        governments are numerous and indefinite.” And look at the Tenth Amendment, which states “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”

        I could go on, but these are a few prescient examples to support my claim that the Constitution created a very limited federal government, which has only those powers expressly delegated, and nowhere in it have I seen any power to compel members to remain in the union.”

        Very limited? No. The powers of the Federal government are extensive. How can the Union have any power at all if states are allowed to secede at will? Think about what you’re saying.

        You said: ” In fact, at least three states, upon ratification of the Constitution, declared that they reserved the right to secede. Why would their ratification even be valid if they included a condition that was not allowed?”

        Because they SIGNED it.

        You said: “You seemed to indicate that secession is treasonous, and invited me to look at what the
        Constitution says about that, so I did, and here’s the text: “Treason against the United States, shall
        consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies,
        giving them Aid and Comfort.” Doesn’t sound remotely like secession to me. I think it’s also interesting that the word “them” is used instead of “it”, in referring to the United States. The very document which establishes the union seems to recognize the preeminence of the states to the union itself. In light of this wording, it seems that in waging war on so many of these states that Lincoln was actually guilty of treason, per the Constitution’s definition.”

        For God’s sake. Southern states seceded, but Lincoln is guilty of treason?

        Read the third paragraph, please.

        http://www.salon.com/2010/12/19/lafantasie_south_secession/

        “Look, this is getting out of hand and this is probably my last post. I think you’re smart enough to understand that people absolutely should have the right to throw off a government that doesn’t represent their interests anymore, as was the case in the American Revolution. And I fully agree that insofar as the south wanted to secede in order to keep slavery, they were wrong, but they weren’t wrong in seceding, they were wrong in enslaving people, and let’s not forget that happened a lot in the north as well! Secession is not only a natural right, but the possibility of it acts as a check against the consolidation of power by those on the national level, and that’s a great thing. We have far too much authority exercised by career politicians who have virtually no connection with what real life is for those they govern, and that’s a very dangerous situation.”

        A natural right? A state has a natural right?

        The South seceded to keep slavery.

        The Constitution provides other measures than secession to balance powers. You are free-lancing here based on a Constitution that you wrote in your head.

        PS These endless repetitions of “the northern states weren’t perfect either are just so lame. Buying and selling people, separating families, raping women, beating slaves to death, allowing them no freedom of movement, of destiny, punishing them for learning to read-just hush up with that “the northern states were bad, too” crap. It’s like pointing out that there was Antisemitism here in the US during WWII. Would you accept that as a defense for the gas chambers?

      • The north did not invade to prevent slavery or did the south seccede to preserve slavery! Can you read? Maybe you could get someone to read THE REAL LINCOLN, WHITE CARGO, LINCOLNS LOVE LETTER TO JOSHUA SPEED…LINCOLN WAS A BI-POLAR HOMOSEXUAL

      • Blue

        The South seceded to protect slavery.

        http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

        Can you read? Here it is, in their own words.

        As for the rest of your post, here’s a link for you:

        http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/files/2009/04/tinfoil-hat.jpg

      • I usually do not lower myself into your trash! I don’t need to read it I was raised by a human my (GGM) her dad was 42 when she was born. I was taught word of mouth. Not a book! It was a rich and war fought by poor people. To my folks it was the second war of independence. Less than 2% of white southerners owned a black slave! Blacks owned blacks. At one time a black man owned more black slaves than ANYONE!! The Yankee did not release his white slaves until 1870 read the second writing of th 15th amendment

      • Blue

        No, it was a War for Slavery.

        Here it is, in their own words:

        http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

        The leaders of the Confederacy made it clear that they fought for enslavement, not liberty.

        Your folks were duped. It’s no cause for shame, it happens in every war. The average man is lied to and drafted to fight for the rich man’s benefit.

        Your information is not sourced, and is not credible. Most white families did not own slaves, true. But only 2%? That is nonsense. Here are some estimates.

        This site says 1/3.

        http://www.civilwarcauses.org/stat.htm

        This site says 1/4.

        http://www.civilwarcauses.org/stat.htm

        Here it is broken down by state:

        http://www.civil-war.net/pages/1860_census.html

        At one time a black man owned more slaves than anyone? Are you claiming that a free black man in the American south was the largest slaveholder? Back that one up, Ace, or hush up your mouth.

      • You will need to argue with the U.S. CENSUS 1830. If you could comprehend? 3775 FREE BLACKS OWNED 12,740 BLACK SLAVES!! God only knows how many white slaves the negro owned. Now to the bad news just for you. The 20 trillion dollar debt is owed by THE NEGRO RACE. and there are 70 million white taxpayers who want their money back. I prefer that blacks just leave to prevent another war. And we still out number you 7.8 to 1..

      • Blue

        YOU need to argue with the US Census 1860. I gave you a link to show that your “2% of Southerners owned slaves” stat is total nonsense.

        THEN you need to provide a link to your claim about black slave owners.

        AFTER THAT you need to crawl back under your rock.

      • Everything you posted has been put on the Internet by the twisted sisters on meds. Hopefully you are on something. You can’t be white and have the hate you have? You are militia liberal. The good news for you everything marked MLK will be removed! The NAACP=the klan with a tan. At least there will be no hate in heaven. Hate will be in hell and that you and your will be if you don’t change! You need to get on your knees and ax GOD to help you! You are a danger to society and yourself!! Did you have something to do with Charleston or Chattanooga? How about the Christain/Newsum murders? I have brand new rope I’ll send you!

      • Blue

        You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.

        What you post is un-sourced nonsense.

        What I post is from the US Census and other reputable sources.

        Now tell me, did you ever post at The Political Asylum or the old WSMV board? Your irrationality, along with your writing style, is quite familiar.

      • The truth would have sat u free! Now I would not waste my P on U. Now U can go have sex with the other farm animals sat back in your taxpayers section 8 housing. Steal more tax dollars kill babies spend your vacation at camp lick a lot and whatever else you animals do

      • Blue

        Really, you remind me of a guy who went by the names Doc and Perc, just to name a couple. Is that you?

      • I’m a profiler for the gov.

      • Blue

        I can’t believe that there’s more than one of you. Too bad, I would like to catch up with Doc and I don’t know how. If you run into him, tell him that TB and Matt say Hi.

      • K.

      • Blue

        : )

        Thanks.

      • 😉 U R welcome

  • Karen Miller

    The ships that brought slaves into this country were not waving the Confederate flag… they flew the American flag. Wonder how long before that flag too will represent something offensive to someone and that too will be taken down. People chill. I’m a white person and quite frankly I’m offended by African symbolism worn and waved proudly in America but I can’t say shit about it.. I feel this way, not because I’m a racist but because this isn’t Africa but god forbid I bring that up. Why am i in the wrong .u fn so called progressives can say and do what u want but every day your bullshit is taking away my frredom. U people are out to take away the rights of others not to balance out the play field but to control the masses. Your no better than the people u endlessly gripe about. Shut the fuck up and leave the land if u don’t like who live here.

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  • Roddy Starmer

    The message seems to be you dont care about their opinions, and they have no right you can see to express their free although perhaps unpleasant speech. This is how a great society is determined. Protection of the weak. Protection for the freedoms of those you disagree with. When you travel this road of the thought police I am sure this time it will be different. This time everyone will benefit. Well as long as they think Like you. Right? Sound familiar?

  • El Mac

    The Confederate’s battle flag is simply beautiful. I love it. Especially because some leftist turds dictate to me that I shouldn’t…makes me love it all the more.
    KMA leftists.

  • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

    I love the American Flag. I’m proud to be an American. But, suh, I love the south as well. By your own admission, blacks were denied water fountains, rest rooms, seats in restaurants well after the civil war ended and into the 1950’s – under the American flag, not the Confederate flag. Slavery began and lasted 89 years under the American flag and, even though the Confederate flag only flew four years, it was 5 additional years after the end of the civil war that slavery was completely abolished – under the American flag, the flag I love. It was democrats who began slavery. It was presidents, politicians, rich land owners, persons of wealth who owned slaves. How many ordinary citizens do you think could afford to own slaves. I don’t look at the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism any more than I look at the American flag as a symbol of racism. The American flag is a symbol of pride no matter what has occurred in the past. The Confederate flag is a symbol of the loss of a southern way of life, the loss of life itself – of brother against brother, father against son, of families torn apart.

    You also mention African-Americans. This is what I have to say about that. When a legal immigrant is given citizenship, they must agree to never use a hyphenated name; i.e., Irish-American, Chinese-American. Americans are Americans no matter their ancestry. To me, African-American is a racist name. By calling themselves African-Americans they are calling themselves something they are not. They are Americans.

    Suh, you may be from the south and you may have lived here all your life, but your ideals are not southern. If you don’t like the way us true southerners live, talk, express our views, you should move to another state, say Chicago or New York. Your views would be so much better accepted.

    • Blue

      It’s a symbol of slavery. The “way of life” that was lost was dependent on slavery.

      • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

        You need to go back to school. It is not a symbol of slavery. As I stated, the American flag symbolized slavery for 89 years, and then another 5 years after the civil war ended. Those who see the confederate flag as a symbol of slavery are not looking at the whole picture. To me it only represents a gentle south that was brought to and end by death and destruction – loss of life, families torn apart. If you will study your history you will find that the south was about to abolish slavery. Democrats from the north – who started slavery, by the way – came into the south to prevent abolishing slavery by the south. Those northern intruders into the south are the ones who are responsible for the continuation of slavery and also contributed to the beginning of the civil war.

      • Blue

        I am looking at the picture. That flag represents “treason in defense of slavery”. It was revived during my childhood as a symbol of defense of discrimination and segregation.

        The idea that the south at that time was “gentle” is disgusting. You are romanticizing a system that required the enslavement and/or destruction of black people. Black people could be bought, sold, beaten, whipped, raped and murdered with no legal consequence. The south was not ‘about to end slavery’. Where on earth did you get that idea? It is so wrong as to be insane.

      • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

        Do you still think the south was the only one who had slaves? Don’t you realize the north not only started slavery but maintained it and kept it intact until 5 years after the civil war. Do you think blacks were the only slaves? I don’t agree with slavery, never did and never will. The south WAS about to end slavery – go read up on the civil war and its beginnings. That flag was designed and approved in October 1861 because the American flag and previous confederate flags looked so much alike. I am not romanticizing any system that required enslavement. Only the rich, the politicians, wealthy land owners – 8 or 9 presidents, the affluent in both north and south were slave owners. My ancestors were none of those. My ancestors were not slave owners. I still like that flag. As for the KKK – I agree with you. They did brutal things to innocent people. But, the KKK didn’t like this particular flag. They did, however, wear white bed sheets. Why aren’t white bed sheets being banned? White bed sheets were a symbol of vile acts of cruelty.

      • Blue

        You said: “The south WAS about to end slavery – go read up on the civil war and its beginnings.”

        Absolutely false. You are spreading a lie.

      • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

        I am not spreading a lie. It is the truth. Read about it for yourself. But, I’ve been giving some thought to something. Think about this. With all the ammunition and other products this Administration has been stockpiling, with secret military training about to begin within the country, with all this sudden emotional stirring of feelings over anything to do with the confederacy, do you think there might be an ulterior motive by the administration? Do you think it might be possible that Obama is trying to drive a wedge deeply between the races, enough so that fights begin to break throughout the south and infiltrate into the north. That way Obama can declare martial law and take over the country. Do you think I’m wrong? I don’t want to argue over something that happened so long ago no matter what the reason it happened. I don’t want our country to come apart for any reason. Can’t we just get past this and move on? Don’t we have enough to worry about than what happened 150 years ago? Our country is in trouble now. We need to be banding together, not separating. Am I wrong?

      • Blue

        You said: “I am not spreading a lie. It is the truth. Read about it for yourself.”

        Yes, you are spreading a lie.The southern states were wanted to spread slavery, not end it.

        Some quotes for you:

        “The people of the slave holding States are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery”

        “Our slaves are black, of another and inferior race. The status in which we have placed them is an elevation. They are elevated from the condition in which God first created them, by being made our slaves.”

        “And a footing in Central America will powerfully aid us in acquiring those other states. It will render them less valuable to the other powers of the earth, and thereby diminish competition with us. Yes, I want these countries for the spread of slavery. I would spread the blessings of slavery, like the religion of our Divine Master, to the uttermost ends of the earth, and rebellious and wicked as the Yankees have been, I would even extend it to them.”

        http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

        You need to stop spreading that lie.

        You said: “But, I’ve been giving some thought to something. Think about this. With all the ammunition and other products this Administration has been stockpiling, with secret military training about to begin within the country, with all this sudden emotional stirring of feelings over anything to do with the confederacy, do you think there might be an ulterior motive by the administration? Do you think it might be possible that Obama is trying to drive a wedge deeply between the races, enough so that fights begin to break throughout the south and infiltrate into the north. That way Obama can declare martial law and take over the country. Do you think I’m wrong?”

        Yes, you are wrong. The Obama administration is not stockpiling ammunition and weapons.

        https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-government-stockpiling-unusual-amounts-of-ammo-by-tom-coburns-gao-report.t3100/

        http://theweek.com/articles/464977/government-stockpiling-ammo-thwart-gun-owners

        You said: “I don’t want to argue over something that happened so long ago no matter what the reason it happened. I don’t want our country to come apart for any reason. Can’t we just get past this and move on? Don’t we have enough to worry about than what happened 150 years ago? Our country is in trouble now. We need to be banding together, not separating. Am I wrong?”

        You can stop our nation from coming apart by being better informed, and by supporting efforts to stop displaying the Confederate flag on state property.

      • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

        Now I understand what is going on here. I’m done talking to you. I know what you are all about and no matter what I do to try to convince you how wrong you are – by copy of a letter from the Confederate president Jefferson Davis – or any other means, you will never understand. You cannot understand and do not want to understand. Stay with your beloved Obama. May he do well by you forevermore. I would say it has been nice conversing with you, but it hasn’t.

      • Blue

        You are spreading lies. The south was not about to end slavery. The south wanted to expand slavery. I provided you with the evidence, in their own words, and you’ve done nothing to prove your case at all.

        You claim you don’t want the country to break apart, but you’re doing exactly what is damaging it. You believe out and out lies about the Civil War and about the President, you spread those lies, and when confronted with evidence showing you just how wrong you are, you get angry.

      • Blue

        You are spreading lies. The south was not about to end slavery. The south wanted to expand slavery. I provided you with the evidence, in their own words, and you’ve done nothing to prove your case at all.

        You claim you don’t want the country to break apart, but you’re doing exactly what is damaging it. You believe out and out lies about the Civil War and about the President, you spread those lies, and when confronted with evidence showing you just how wrong you are, you get angry.

      • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

        Couldn’t resist. You are the one who is spreading unfounded lies. I am not angry at all. I just realized who I was conversing with and realized how useless it was. I really didn’t intend to respond to you any more but I couldn’t help it. Like I said, I’m not angry at all but at peace with myself. I’m over you, your unfounded lies and your incorrect beliefs. I’ll believe what I want, you believe what you want and we’ll both live happily everafter. So long.

      • Blue

        You just keep repeating the same damnable lies.

        I gave you the evidence. READ IT.

      • Mary Lou Hammond Morris

        Now I understand what is going on here. I’m done talking to you. I know what you are all about and no matter what I do to try to convince you how wrong you are – by copy of a letter from the Confederate president Jefferson Davis – or any other means, you will never understand. You cannot understand and do not want to understand. Stay with your beloved Obama. May he do well by you forevermore. I would say it has been nice conversing with you, but it hasn’t.

  • Pingback: Attention Confederate Flag Supporters: Nobody Really Cares What You Think About the Flag()

  • David David

    Did anyone stop to think this kid is 21 he has no real understanding of life yet because he hasn’t lived it?

  • jay

    if some of y’all bothered to a non liberal history book… yall would find a few things..1.when the war started it over states right..slavery was not a issue till the emancipation proclamation which ONLY FREED SLAVES IN THE SOUTH NOT THE NORTH……2.only about 3 percent of slave owners were didnt care about their slaves. the over 97 percent took real good care of the slaves..
    3. due to advancemaent of technology that was going on during the 1800s slavery would have been abolished by the early 1900..ok now thats out the way…. i am full blooded southern my 3 time great grandfather fought in the civil war and im proud to be his grandson so therefor i have pride and heritage linked to this flag…and ill be damned if i let anyone tell i cant show my heritage..and while im the topic just a little bit of history the south didnt start the war the north did…Davis told Abe that fort sumpter will b supplied by the south and do no send supplies to them for it will b considered a act of war and ABE DIDNT listen so therefor the north started the war…

    • Blue

      The flag wasn’t banned. You can fly it all you like, but it’s inappropriate for the capitol grounds, a space that belongs to all of the state’s citizens.

      The South seceded over slavery. The Union invaded over secession. Slavery was the issue that the Civil War was fought over.

      If you can be proud of that flag, then black Americans can hate it. The memory goes both ways, and frankly, most folks realize that black Americans have the better cause.

  • Joel Champagne

    First off. The war wasn’t aover slavery.
    Second the south actually had freeded many slaves before the war ended. 3rd the flag wasn’t flown by racist it was flown by the people who believed that he south wanted to be indepedant..

  • Brian Leffingwell

    Well what about all the slavery in the north at this time in history

  • Jack Marage

    i see and understand your point. i how ever believe that all of this flag crap has become a bunch of bullshit. all of the segregation and buullshit that was happening fifty so years ago, i would not of supported it , i 100% think it was wrong. im not a racist. On the other hand i think banning the rebel flag is crap. whats the next step, ban the American flag for all of the atrocities that the Americans did against the native people. The African Americans had a hand in that along with the whites. While we are banning flags over here, why don’t we rally and get the England flag band for all of the atrocities they committed against the Irish.when will it end.. i hear nothing on banning the Isis flag,whys that.You can call me prejudice,I am, and that’s is against shallow, closed minded, ignorant, people Hay then again don’t listen to me , this is just my own opinion

    • Blue

      The flag wasn’t banned.

  • Scott Rule

    Wow, imagine this rant came from a Hillary supporter……. and he thinks we’re in denial. You can comb the books and articles of history and twist them around the way you see fit and then claim this article ties to this article until you have changed the agenda of those articles. A lot like a magic trick, but you sir, are no magician. If I fold a dollar bill and twist it around while telling you it’s a hundred, when the bullshit is over it’s still just a one dollar bill. You and Hillary can try, but there are a lot of us Americans that can see through your bullshit. If you ban everything from history you puss is don’t like, there won’t be any history. SO HEAR THIS YOU LIBERAL SCUM, WE WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO REMOVE HISTORY JUST TO SHAME OUR COUNTRY ALL WHILE MAKING NEW HISTORY THAT DIVIDES OUR COUNTRY. OBAMA HAS SCREWED THIS COUNTRY ENOUGH AND WHEN WE GET THE RIGHT MAN IN OFFICE AGAIN, YOU WELFARE COLLECTING, OVER ENTITLED, RACIST IDIOTS ARE GOING TO ALL BE ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS AND A JOB BECAUSE THE HANDOUTS WILL BE GONE!!!!!

    • Blue

      Nothing has been banned. A flag that represented “treason in defense of slavery” has been taken off of the capitol grounds in South Carolina.

      I’m all for seeing over-entitled racist idiots ask for forgiveness, but I expect that instead they’ll all just keep voting Republican.

  • Tophudson

    The ignorance? You are a progressive? You also are living in a smog of smug! While I will admit that ONE of the reasons the South fought was in order to keep slavery, but you didn’t mention the fact that the North continued to have slaves after the Civil War, that Lincoln didn’t free ALL of the slaves (just Southern owners), that America had slaves for over 88 years, that the North didn’t have equal rights either, that segregation was practiced throughout the entire nation! It may be that you are no smarter (possibly even less intelligent) than those you have met. You certainly sound like you have the very same “blinders” on that you imply that your neighbors wear. I have never met you, and I can’t tell you how glad I am of that! I feel that EVERYONE you have met wish they hadn’t (including close family members)! If you have been so sick of living around all of these ignorant people, why haven’t you moved?

    • Blue

      THE reason that they fought was slavery.

      “The North” didn’t continue to have slavery. Kentucky and Missouri were slave states, and those two states did not secede. Lincoln feared if he emancipated the slaves in those states they would secede and he’d increase the numbers against him. The reason was a pragmatic decision during an insurrection.

  • Rob M Slone Jr.

    Idiots. That’s not even the right flag morons.thats the battle flag of Virginia and Tennessee. Only way that is a confederate flag is if you make it smaller and add a huge white section then put in left side in place of original stars. The STAINLESS BANNER is a symbol of pride and the right to rebel against what we think is unjust. Even if it is something that you don’t agree on what it stands for at least figure out what it really was used for. That American flag you speak so highly of , (BTW I love my America or at least the Old America before Obama) is and has been used in more racism then either of the Confederate or Stainless Banner ever has been. And regardless of how you look at it it’s still history. Good or bad. The whit e Race never enslaved any one. They were sold into slavery by their own greedy people. And they still haven’t changed as a whole. It’s been quite a while since actual slavery. About time we actually get over it. You make it a lot worse by acting the way you are and creating such a fuss over a few but hurt people who are too ignorant to pick up a few books and open their small and simple minds like your self.

    • Blue

      Oh, your love of country is dependent on your candidate winning the election? Seems that is the definition of patriotism for many right wingers, including many who were elected to Congress.

      The defenders of the slavery of black people in America were white. You can’t really get away from that.

      After slavery, we had Jim Crow, segregation, red-lining, denial of voting rights, and lynching. That makes it pretty hard to get over, KWIM?

      You know what is really funny? That you want to defend that flag as history, but you want those most impacted by that history to “get over it”. Here’s a thought: YOU get over it.

      • Rob M Slone Jr.

        Ok well I’d love for you to read a book or two because only idiots really believe the hypocrisy that you are speaking. I had a hard time not laughing at what you wrote blue. And no I love my country just very disappointed in its decisions coming from a piece of shit racist president. As a white man in America we are turning into the minority. The roles of race power have actually changed. White are being treated the way blacks were. I’m not saying it was fair for any one being treated like a second class citizen so why is it ok for us to be treated that way and yet were racist for standing up and speaking out. That actual flag is a battle flag bub. Not confederate. Idiots like you crowned it as the Confederate flag because your uneducated and simple and closed minds are what’s creating all the racial tension out in America. So what about the hundreds of groups of African Americans that are picking up the Rebel flag. Kinda takes away any validity that you had in your “rant” lol. Get some fuckin school in your life BOY lol

      • Blue

        Every word of that is nuts. You are laughing the laugh of the deluded.

        Whites are currently 77.7% of the population in America. At some point, the combination of other “races” will make whites the minority, but that is not the case at this point.

        The idea that black people are in charge over white people is irrational. You don’t even attempt to back up that stupid claim. Why? Because you can’t. It’s the kind of thing that some half-drunk idiots at a bar say to each other, not something that rational, sober people believe.

        The origins of that flag have been discussed at length, and they are interesting only as trivia. That flag has been incorporated into state logos as pure racism.

        Obama won election convincingly, twice, so your view that he’s a racist is the view of a poorly informed, resentful, white guy-not the view of the majority of white people.

        Race is social construct. Not a biological reality. Get some school in your life, or even just some Google. Make something of yourself.

    • Proud Southerner

      NICE!

  • anarchyst

    …it
    will NEVER be enough for blacks…both special “civil-rights (for
    some)” laws and “affirmative action”, contract set-asides, scholarships
    for blacks only, and all other preferences based solely on race will
    still be around a hundred years from now. By the politicians allowing
    this sorry excuse for a race, this dysfunctional minority to dictate to
    us whites, destroying OUR history, they are prodding a “sleeping
    giant”. PUSHBACK IS COMING. The racial hatred that blacks have for us
    whites is self-destructive and will do them no good. Whatever happened
    to “equality of opportunity?? It has been replaced wit “equality of
    results” (quotas) which NEVER works.

  • anarchyst

    The term “racism” was invented by communists, and is used to destroy cultures and defuse (and render impotent) those with differing points-of-view on “racial” issues.

    That being said . . .
    True “racism” is desirable as it merely cements cultural and social bonds that are necessary for a society to function and flourish.

    True “racism” merely denotes commonality of purpose and advancement within each respective racial group.

    Blacks have the NAACP and Congressional Black Caucus, Hispanics have La Raza and Mecha, Jews have the $PLC, ACLU and ADL. These are all “racist” organizations that serve to promote the interests (and political power) of their respective races.

    It is only whites who are castigated and threatened for attempting to show any signs of racial solidarity.

    Let’s look at what us “evil, privileged” whites have done for Western society and the world:

    1. “Civil-rights (for some)” laws (that effectively destroy “freedom of association” for whites, but not for other races) and do not apply to whites–only “people of color” are covered by these so-called “civil-rights (for some)” protections, (Ask “Attorney General” Eric holder about that).

    2. “Affirmative action” policies (that push better qualified whites out of positions and jobs that they would ordinarily qualify for) in favor of lesser-qualified minorities. In fact, “affirmative action” policies actually damage those minorities who are quite capable of “making it on their own” because they get “lumped in” with the groups that cannot make it on their own without “help”,

    3. “Contract set-asides” (that are specifically targeted for minorities (that white people are prohibited from bidding on) and immigration policies (that specifically exclude whites, most of who have skills that would benefit the USA) in favor of those from the third-world (with no marketable skills).

    4. Scholarships that specify particular ethnic groups are looked upon favorably by most people, save one–scholarships that are intended for whites only are looked upon as being “racist”, and therefore impermissible and improper in today’s racially-charged climate of “political correctness”.

    NO OTHER RACE (BUT WHITES) HAS BENT OVER BACKWARDS to assure that all non-white races receive a “fair shake” in being a part of American life, even to the detriment and social well-being of “our own kind” (whites).

    Whites possess an externalized altruism that no other races possesses. This externalized altruism that “looks out for the other guy” will be the demise of the white race. This altruism needs to be internalized and focused inward, just as other races have done. There is NO SHAME in looking out for one’s own kind.

    “Multiculturalism” and “diversity” are code-words for white genocide.

    I blame those of the “greatest generation” for selling out our birthright with the passage of the “Civil-Rights Acts” of 1957 and 1964, and the “Hart-Cellar immigration act of 1965”.

  • anarchyst

    …we should have repatriated our now useless farm machinery when we had the chance…
    Racist? damn right, and PROUD of it…

  • Tiffany Mitchell

    Have you read the amendment that Lincoln himself added to the Constitution institutionalizing slavery? What about the fact that over 250,000 slaves in the South were free before the war even started? Or the fact that the emancipation speech did not pertain to Northern states, where the majority of slaves were? Most Southerners could not afford slaves. What about the fact that one of the most prominent slave owners during that time was a black man? Or the fact that Lincoln paraded blacks around the white house and told them they’d never be equal and he wanted to send them back to Africa? Or what about Grant taking his slaves to the white house when he became president? Slavery wasn’t just a Southern problem. Slavery under the Confederate flag was 4 years. It started a hundred years before, in the North, under the American flag. Slavery was a national disease affecting our country as a whole. Not just parts.

  • Sillycibin

    Really great post. I love seeing all the logical fallacies getting perpetrated by the confederate sympathizers. Cognitive dissonance is an amazing thing the way it con-volutes thoughts.

  • Sillycibin

    Why do people keep trying to defend the South with moronic arguments about how blacks and the North did things wrong too. It’s like trying to defend Nazis by pointing out America had internment camps full of Japanese Americans. Sure, rounding up Japanese people was wrong, but WTF would it have to with what the Nazis did? Did I make a strong enough point that you morons will stop trying to deflect from the fact that the South had slaves and they didn’t want to give up slavery?

  • Boyd Timothy Babcock

    The Confederacy was at a disadvantage from the start, they were a mostly agrarian society. Most of the industry was in the north. That said, the South kicked ass in many battles and had much better generals. In fact Grant was not a great general he was just a attrition strategist. The South had a policy that if someone owned slaves they were exempt from military service, so most if not all the people who actually fought were just people who were fighting because of the north invading their land. Also Lincoln said he would keep the country part slave if it would save the union, “The sooner the national authority can be
    restored; the nearer the Union will be “the Union as it was.”
    If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they
    could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with
    them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they
    could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with
    them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the
    Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If
    I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would
    do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves
    I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving
    others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and
    the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the
    Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not
    believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less
    whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the
    cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing
    more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when
    shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they
    shall appear to be true views.” You see this hooplaphobia by the low IQ left is the type of reasoning that has driven us to open boarders, sanctuary cities, easy prison policy’s and giving in to tyranical governments like Iran.

  • Keith Williams

    The Civil War WAS about States Rights…The Right for States to own black people.

    • Why do you use the black word? Because you don’t know the truth. Not only were there more white slaves than black…but there was a black man that owned more white slaves than whites did!

  • SORRY, I didn’t realize I was on a hate site! Some of you hate yourselfs. One must love themselves before loving others.

  • Pingback: The Southern Culture of Violence | Indigo Xix()

  • There’s no question that liberal DEVILcrats will be the first to go if a race war broke out! Well if they come out of hiding….

  • Rights come from the grace of God! And he deal with you baby killing, homosexual sub humans!

  • Jaime Lynn

    That battle flag is not the flag of the confederacy. There was a white flag version with the battle flag in the corner. ..but there was a whole lot of confederate flags that represented the confederacy.

    The battle flag itself is a battle flag. It is no different than the air calvary flag. Are any of you folks claiming the air cav flag is the flag of this country?

    Point being is your history lessons have come from hollywood not from facts. The battle flag represents peoples ancestors who died defending their home on the battlefield. It never flew over a slave ship or over the nation who used slaves for its heavy agriculture based industry. Many northern states kept their slaves until the end of the war. Delaware told Lincoln to pound sand in response to his emancipation proclamation. Which came 2 years after the war had started. The war started over what all wars start from……money.

    Meanwhile our nations flag the stars and stripes was flown while we slaughtered native americans and slaves ships and worldwide imperialism and oppression.

    You people are okay with our nation’s flag of worldwide butchery and tyranny but your upset over a simple battle flag flown by soliders…..almost all who owned no slaves and were defending their homes. Talk about being hypocrites. Ask some of.those dead children over seas what they think of our flag while drones drop bombs on them.

    • Blue

      It flew over soldiers fighting to defend slavery. Then it flew over racists who believed in white supremacy. I’m guessing that it’s the fact that it stands for so little else besides white supremacy that makes it so odious.

  • The Angry Turtle

    Conservatives keep trying to claim that the south wasn’t racist. But you know damn well Mississippi and North Carolina would probably still have slavery today if they weren’t forced to give them up.

  • Stephen Ritger

    Texas isn’t the “South”, you moron. Texas is TEXAS! Don’t mess with it!

  • Angela

    Slavery is about low IQ and dependency. All over the world those who could not keep up have been made slaves in order to keep them from dying or causing trouble to the rest. This was true in every case EXCEPT white slavery in North Africa!

    To this day if you live in the south and see the average low IQ black in the ghetto, you will see why whites needed to separate and out of mercy gave them employment with slavery. We do the exact same now though. We separate from “bad neighborhoods” (always dark people) and because they can’t keep up and be competitive, having a very high unemployment rate, we can either give them little jobs in trade for food or housing. Put them in jail when they act up, and require some work of them to pay for themselves there, or worse, we don’t require and work and just call them mental because of their normal black IQ. In the purest part of Africa, the average IQ is 70, we call that borderline retarded here, and they can get on disability for life! Of course, if they have a child out of wedlock and can’t afford them, like 72% of black woman, we also give them free welfare and foodstamps and housing. White tax payers of course footing the vast majority of the bill for all this low IQ inflicted dependence.

    The difference with slavery now, is that for all practical purposes, whites are the slaves of the blacks, just as always happens when they multiply like rabbits and mix with us by rape, increasing their IQ and still having high aggression and distrust, all side effects of their high testosterone.As long as blacks are not separated out, and are allowed to mix with civilization, they will destroy it. History shows this clearly! Even now we see this in places like Detroit! Have pride in our white heritage while it is around, because in one more generations whites will be a minority in America, and after that we will be the next Brazil!

    • Blue

      Uh, no. There’s no evidence at all that slaves became slaves because they had low intelligence.

      Surely your statement about slavery being merciful, “multiplying like rabbits and mix with us by rape” and about intelligence scores “inthe purest part of African” is pure trolling. If you believe this, you make me question your IQ.

      • Angela

        I have studied the caste systems in every country, the slaves of all history, and their average IQ’s to this day. . .and it turns out that in every case (but for whites taken in mass by blacks), it is an earned position, and the best they could get.
        Thanks to unfair advantages and charity though, in a white civilization, no only slightly disadvantaged group mentally or having just moved and not settled in, stays in servitude. Any individual or group that is not too low IQ always does well in America, as compared to anywhere they came from. They should have nothing but gratitude for their lot in life here. The blacks may have had it bad compared to whites in America, but that inequality is inevitable, no matter how much chance and opportunity is given them. Potential is genetic, and even if we hand an education to them on a silver platter, they will not take it, or use it, or be able to retain the job and stay out of trouble. The cause is not just IQ, but behavior, and this comes from hormone levels. High levels of testosterone make for aggression and sexual behavior, as well as lack of control. Low Oxytocin makes for immoral and psychopathic behavior, being unable to empathize or bond. These are racial differences seen to this day in the most mixed blacks even! Thus, they will likely end in jail, or deserve it, even if not put there (out of fear of a politically correct and “fair” system that attempts t make every group equal). Behavior and genetics (just as looks) are all tied together, sadly, some things are dominant. The black who acts like a white may consequently not fit in to either group, and that is because they are a mix. The whites who mix better with the blacks in behavior are also very likely a mix according to DNA and the areas passing whites are. . . it is just like dog breeds, mutts can be any combination of looks or behavior, but a purebred is consistent. Look to stereotypes to tell you the pure of the races. Even the averages tell a lot, in 20% European mixed blacks we have average 86 IQ. Yet all over Africa, in the least mixed areas, still 13% European, we have 70 IQ, while the purest blacks in Australia, have more like 50 IQ! Only 20% being 100% pure. You can look them up yourself, it has taken me 6 years of study to find this stuff though.

      • Blue

        OK, there you go, a message from our local KKK.

        Notice that I asked for a source, and did not get one.

        This is not science, it is racist drivel.

  • Logical and aware

    Ladies and gentlemen, I submit that what we see happening in the United States today is an apt illustration of why the Confederate flag was raised in the first place. What we see materializing before our very eyes is tyranny: tyranny over the freedom of expression, tyranny over the freedom of association, tyranny over the freedom of speech, and tyranny over the freedom of conscience.

    In 1864, Confederate General Patrick Cleburne warned his fellow southerners of the historical consequences should the South lose their war for independence. He was truly a prophet. He said if the South lost, “It means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy. That our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the war; will be impressed by all of the influences of History and Education to regard our gallant debt as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.” No truer words were ever spoken.

    History revisionists flooded America’s public schools with Northern propaganda about the people who attempted to secede from the United States, characterizing them as racists, extremists, radicals, hatemongers, traitors, etc. You know, the same way that people in our federal government and news media attempt to characterize Christians, patriots, war veterans, constitutionalists, et al. today.

    Folks, please understand that the only people in 1861 who believed that states did NOT have the right to secede were Abraham Lincoln and his radical Republicans. To say that southern states did not have the right to secede from the United States is to say that the thirteen colonies did not have the right to secede from Great Britain. One cannot be right and the other wrong. If one is right, both are right. How can we celebrate our Declaration of Independence in 1776 and then turn around and condemn the Declaration of Independence of the Confederacy in 1861? Talk about hypocrisy!

    In fact, southern states were not the only states that talked about secession. After the southern states seceded, the State of Maryland fully intended to join them. In September of 1861, Lincoln sent federal troops to the State capital and seized the legislature by force in order to prevent them from voting. Federal provost marshals stood guard at the polls and arrested Democrats and anyone else who believed in secession. A special furlough was granted to Maryland troops so they could go home and vote against secession. Judges who tried to inquire into the phony elections were arrested and thrown into military prisons. There is your great “emancipator,” folks.

    And before the South seceded, several northern states had also threatened secession. Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island had threatened secession as far back as James Madison’s administration. In addition, the states of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware were threatening secession during the first half of the nineteenth century–long before the southern states even considered such a thing.

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