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I’m Running Out of Ways to Defend Islam

Islamic Center of America in Deerborn, Michigan

Islamic Center of America in Deerborn, Michigan

After a day in which the news was mostly dominated by the terrorist attack in France that claimed 12 lives, I felt numb much of the day. Not just because of the shooting, but because it’s becoming increasingly difficult for me to do something that I’ve done steadfastly for many years. That is, defend Muslims from those who ignorantly attack and bash them.


I’ll be honest, as badly as I want to stand in the face of some right-wing radical who’s proclaiming that Islam is a violent, hateful religion and tell them that they’re an idiot and nothing but an ignorant jackass – I don’t know if I can say that and still honestly mean it.

Just let the reality sink in for a moment of what really happened. A newspaper experienced its second terrorist attack in just over three years because it dared to poke fun at Islam. What other group of ideological individuals on this planet would do that? Say what you want about right-wing Christian radicals, they might throw a hissy fit when someone makes fun of Christianity or Jesus Christ, but Christian fundamentalists didn’t violently attack Seth MacFarlane or his team of writers when Family Guy aired their Christmas episode last month where the subject was trying to get Jesus laid.

And let’s not forget that nearly five years ago, South Park (a show that brutally mocks and makes fun of practically everything) had one of its episodes edited by Comedy Central following violent threats by Islamic groups concerning their making fun of Islam and the prophet Mohammad. In fact, one of these groups based out of New York, Revolution Muslim, said at the time that South Park creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone would probably end up like Theo van Gough for making fun of Islam. 

Who’s Theo van Gough you ask? Well, he was a Dutch filmmaker who was killed by an Islamic militant in 2004 because he dared to make a documentary concerning the abuse of some Muslim women in Islamic countries.

In other words, this group Revolution Muslim, a group that was based out of the United States, was essentially threatening the lives of the South Park creators for making fun of Islam.

But my frustrations with all of this seemed to boil over today when I read that Saudi Arabia had condemned this attack. When I read that I didn’t feel a sense of relief that a powerful Islamic nation stood up against this kind of behavior. Instead I thought to myself, “Who the hell is Saudi Arabia to condemn anyone else considering the way they treat their own citizens every single day”?

Not that Saudi Arabia is a terrorist nation, but their record when it comes to basic human rights is atrocious. So, how are they an “example to set” for other Islamic states? Should we just ignore the fact that there are still laws in Saudi Arabia that punish people for being openly homosexual; that they treat women more like property than human beings (women still can’t even drive there); they continue to behead people as a means of execution; and often use Sharia law to oppress many of their citizens?


Seeing the wave of anti-Islamic messages that have flooded the internet since the attack in France, I so desperately want to say, “To hell with you anti-Islamic bigots” – but what examples do I have to prove them wrong? ISIL isn’t shrinking. In fact, it’s growing at a rather fast pace despite our airstrikes. Then when you look at countries such as Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria they’re a complete mess. Then it seems that far more often than not, when Muslims are given a choice to select their own leaders, they often choose some degree of religious fanaticism. Even the stable Islamic countries in and around the Middle East are ruled more along the lines of Saudi Arabia than countries that actually enjoy freedom such as the United States, Canada, England, Australia and Germany. 

During a discussion about this topic, I asked a liberal friend of mine to name one Islamic state where:

  • Homosexuals are allowed to be openly gay.
  • Women are given equal rights.
  • Other religions are allowed to freely practice their faith and are not oppressed.

He couldn’t do it. And I’ll be honest with you, I can’t either. Because to my knowledge, there’s not a single Islamic nation in or around the Middle East that meets all three of those criteria.

So, while there are several Islamic states that have publicly condemned this attack, and that’s great that they did, the laws by which many of these nations are governed are still awful when it comes to giving basic human rights for many of its citizens. Which makes it really difficult for me to say, “See, these nations are leaders in the Islamic world that are going to bring about change and opposition against Islamic radicals,” when many of these countries are flat-out oppressive on many aspects relating to their citizens having freedoms and rights.

Can I really say, “Yes, Saudi Arabia is a powerful nation that condemns terrorism” as a point of bragging to defend Islam from bigots? What do I say when they counter with, “Well, what about their stances on religious freedom, gay rights and women’s rights”? There’s nothing I can really say to that.

Now let me be clear, this article isn’t meant to sound anti-Muslim. It’s me reaching a point where I really don’t know where to go or what to say anymore about this subject. It’s hard for me to keep saying “it’s not Islam, it’s just the bad guys” when so many non-terrorist Islamic states fail the litmus test when it comes to basic human rights for so many of those living under these regimes.

And I know there are millions of great Muslim people on this planet. And I believe the overwhelming majority of them are kind, loving and wonderful people.

But something has to change. Publicly opposing terrorism is easy, but condemning horrific acts being carried out by religious fanatics isn’t going to bring about the fundamental change that’s needed to get at the root of much of this violence. That change is only going to come from Muslims fighting every single day against oppressive Islamic states. These people have to want, and demand, actual democracy. They have to build nations not ruled by the Quran, but by basic human decency toward everyone regardless of gender, religion or sexual orientation.

Theocratic governments have always, and will always, breed violence and oppression.

And as long as Muslims continue to flock toward nations founded, built and driven by Islamic rule – none of this is going to stop. And sadly, far too many Muslims continue to do just that.

So please, don’t take this as an “attack on Muslims,” because that’s not at all what I mean here. I just really, truly don’t know what to say anymore.

When I see videos of hostages being beheaded by ISIL, hear about 145 people killed (including 132 children) in a Pakistan school suicide bombing, learn of hostages being murdered in Australia and now satire newspaper writers brutally gunned down because of a couple of cartoons – all in the name of the same religion – how can I keep defending it from those who spew hatred toward it?

I want to, I really do. But I’m just not sure if I know how to do it anymore.



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Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on both Twitter and Facebook. Have feedback, inquiries, criticism or compliments? You can email him as well.

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  • Stuff And Things

    Exactly how I feel.

  • Donna P

    This article pretty much sums up how I feel as well.

  • Cemetery Girl

    Nope. Start agreeing that Islam is hateful and horrible and might as well paint a target on the back of every Muslim follower. Extremists have done horrible things, but extremists of just about anything can do some pretty horrible things. Zealots are not a representation. Think about the beliefs you hold and the things you do, would you want it to be assumed that you are just like the extremes in those areas?
    The oppression in Islamic countries is another story. First of all, oppression happens in many other areas, but we don’t blame religion. (Is Putin secretly Muslim? Leader of North Korea must be also.) Religion is used as an excuse for the culture that has the oppression, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be overcome. It is a slow process though, and we certainly can’t look at these countries and think “geez, you’ve wanted a free society for a few years now, get it all together already!” We aren’t as evolved as we like to think. We have groups of people that would like to take away women’s antimony over their bodies. We have people that are fighting to send homosexuality back into hiding. (I’m sure that you have heard plenty of “I don’t really have a problem with the gays, but I just think that they are better off just keeping it to themselves. Nobody would hassle them if they just kept all that in the bedroom.”) Oppression is hard to fight because to beat it you have to change people’s views. It isn’t just overcoming the few in power but overcoming them and the many passive. Oppression is never truly defeated; it can sprout up again and if we are lax then that oppression takes hold again.

    • John Michael Hutton

      YOu are a fool. Muslims are encouraged to LIE to infidels to hide their true intentions. You CANNOT TRUST THEM. They are cowards that sneak around in the dead of night. In every country that has accepted them from the shitholes of the Middle East, they bite the hands of those that readily helped them when they needed it. They are cowards and untrustworthy. ALL OF THEM. Send them back to kill their enemies or be killed. I don’t give a shit because I don’t want them here where they can kill my family or friends whenever they wish to come out of the shadows and attack like the cowards they are.

      • Brian Heine

        It’s called Taqiyya and Kitman

      • Cemetery Girl

        Couple of questions. Have you read the Bible and all of the sentiments about nonbelievers? Also does your sentiments extend to all that could hurt your family, which includes some females (statistically likely)?

      • Wil

        Yeah it says love your enemies and do good to them. Helluva difference.

      • Cemetery Girl

        Yes, that is in one of the books. There is also a section on not mixing with nonbelievers.

      • The Snail

        It says do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. That means that there will be problems if you don’t have the same values as they were in the Roman world. But Jesus spent much of his time with those considered ‘sinners’ by the religious authorities. I would be grateful if you could find the passage you refer to.

      • mrbeenie

        And you know this…. how? I mean to ask, have you talked to any significant number of practicing Muslims? Have you managed to sustain a conversation with a Muslim for longer than 10 minutes? Have you done anything to open yourself to contact with Muslims?

        No? Why? Because you “don’t give a shit because I don’t want them here where they can kill my family or friends whenever they wish to come out of the shadows and attack like the cowards they are. Is that it? “I don’t give a shit because I don’t want them here.”

        Muslims are “encouraged to LIE to infidels to hide their true intentions,” you say. “You CANNOT TRUST THEM,” you add. You claim that, “They are cowards that sneak around in the dead of night. In every country that has accepted them from the shitholes of the Middle East, they bite the hands of those that readily helped them when they needed it.”

        Yes, good sir, but really, how do you know? Have we not already established that you “don’t give a shit” because you “don’t want them here?” If you “don’t want them here,” then why would you ever want to talk to a Muslim long enough to befriend one, which obviously you are not the least bit interested in doing? And from there, if you have never talked to a large number of Muslims, how would you have garnered enough information with which to conclude that Muslims (“ALL OF THEM”) are untrustworthy?

        If we are to believe that you “don’t want them here,” that you believe that “You CANNOT TRUST THEM,” that Muslims are “cowards and untrustworthy,” than I ask, where do you get your information?

      • Paul Julian Gould

        And I love when folks trot out terms out of context, from a faith they don’t share in order to bash them with it… Using the idea of Taqiyyah as some sort of indictment, when it is actually an understandable tradition for self-preservation… (basically, “if it’s a choice between being killed simply for being a Muslim and lying about it, don’t be stupid!”) It is as understandable and human as Christians lying to the Nazis in order to protect Jews under their care, and for the same reason as taqiyyah.

        I’m not a Muslim, by any means, but it seems our friend is letting his unfocused rage and bitterness against a faith of more than a billion people overwhelm any semblance of common sense or decency.

      • DatBus

        There is a great deal of deception involved in the spread of political Islam. Trying to attack the messenger by claiming he has “unfocused race and bitterness” because he’s telling the truth does’t speak too highly of your character.

      • Paul Julian Gould

        My observation of the commenter was based not on just the perversion of the meaning of Taqiyyah, but on the total comment. If that’s speaking ill of my own character, then so be it.

        The key, I believe, is in your qualifier, “political”… in that, I’d say that political Islam is as toxic as political Christianity. If law enforcement and cultural norms wouldn’t be as they are in our country, would the Dominionists not be every bit as violent as we see in some Muslim practitioners? That’s not a false equivalency, if one has read the words of those who follow Vereide and Schaeffer and have expanded on their teachings.

      • John Cross

        I was going to reply, but what’s the point? Pearls before swine, as someone once said.

      • wawoo

        So are Mormons as to the lying. And Scientologists. And many other sects of various religions and even social groups.

      • The Snail

        But it is not considered a good thing to do by most religions. Taqqiya is a religious concept in Islam which says you may lie as much as you like – so long as it promotes the cause of Islam.

      • wawoo

        The Old Testament has several accounts of the Jewish kings and miltary commanders lying. Often ending in slaughter and enslavement for the subjects being lied to. And always prefaced with YHWH told them to do it. The lies and the subsequent murder and enslavement clearly being part of the Gos told them to do it so it was good canon.

      • The Snail

        Quite right BUT neither Jews nor Christians are told to emulate these people – yes they did believe God told them to do it – but they were fallible humans – like all of us.Jesus moved it on when he said – You heard it said in Old Times (i.e. Old testament) but I say to you…. (e.g. Not an Eye for an Eye but love your enemies etc.)

        However Muslims are told to emulate Mohammed – the Koran says he is the most perfect human ever and is an example. In fact they are called Sunnis because the follow the Sunna (arabic translation of Sunna means example – of Mohammed implied). You will find that Sharia law is based on what Mo. did. Many of the punishments doled out by ISIL, Saudi Arabia, Boko Haram, Al Shabab are based on what Mo. did in his life.

    • strayaway

      Imposing restrictive immigration policies on Axis and Communist countries was not about putting a target on the back of every Axis or Communist country citizen. It was just a temporary and common sense measure to prevent potential terrorists from coming here. Most Japanese, Russians, and Germans were good people who loved their grandchildren, listened to classical music, and petted there dogs. However, there was a unacceptably high percentage who were thought to have other agendas. After WWII and the cold war was over, immigration restrictions were removed. Since contemporary Islam is slaughtering people all over the world and we are fighting it, it makes no sense to be allowing 100,000 Muslims in a year and crossing our fingers that they are all good people. They aren’t as we found out on 9/11, Fort Hood, and other incidents, They aren’t as Nigeria, Paris, Russia, Mali, and other places have found out. I suggest that we impose the same immigration restrictions on Islam as we did on Axis and Communist countries and relax them when and if Islam gets over its violent patch. Christianity got over its violent eras. Perhaps in another 20 or 300 years, a kinder, gentler version of Islam will emerge.

    • Dajjal

      What do you have to write in defense of Nazis?

      • Philip Schroeder

        The Germans where just stupid, like they are today, and like all bigger masses of people are when they are together.

        Most people don’t look at the facts, they never read “Mein Kampf”, and they don’t read the Quran today.

        They just saw, that Hitler provided them with Jobs and a good infrastructure, and only realized their error when it was too late already.

        Today it is even worse, the Islam doesn’t provide us with anything but hatred and misfortune, and still the people support it, because they are too frightened to be marked as racists again.

    • DNA

      I fully agree with you. If we exhibit hate and prejudice towards all Muslims because of the few insincere terrorists then we are acting in many ways like them by considering everyone as evil.

      People are innately good. The people on this forum are good. Humanity is imperfect. Muslims are human beings like you and I. The ones committing the atrocities must be dealt with but the others we must treat them and speak about them in a good way as they have done no wrong and are our fellow human beings.

      • Philip Schroeder

        People that support evil scriptures are evil, scriptures are evil when they openly and unambigously call for violence due to reasons except from being attacked in the same way, like calling for violence, because people don’t believe in your views, and the Islam does exactly that.

  • wawoo

    Islam has never gone thru a Reformation nor an Enlightenment. It is still a 13th Century religion. Be reminded that Christianity and Judaism of today are far different than they were two or three hundred years ago and even more different than they were five hundred years ago. Most who profess those faiths today would have been considered apostates two hundred years ago and would have had their lives at risk. Even more so three hundred and more years ago. Such is the case with Islam today. Which is not making excuses but stating a sad and dangerous fact. Moslems account for more than 90% of the terrorist acts in the world today. Having said that, Islam is not monolithic. Obviously the Shi’a-Sunni split is fierce and has accounted for the deaths of millions of Muslims over the centuries and contnues to do so today. There are many, many moderate Moslems and minor sects within Islam, ie Sufism, that do embrace belonging to the larger world and they need to be encouraged.

    • slev09

      It hasn’t gone through a reformation because the historical conditions in Europe for the reformation weren’t there. The reformation happened in part due to the printing press, the translation of the holy word into vernacular, and the “democratization” of Catholicism.

      The thing is, this never happened in the region because of how the system of clerics worked and because of literacy rates.

      HOWEVER, there has been a reformation brewing on the internet. There has been a democratization of Islamic discourse that has seen a reformation of scholarly ideas over the last 10 years.

      The problem is that these religious realities fly against the political realities of the war on terror and while moderates are igniting a reformation movement by using reason to create new interpretations, extremist are lent credence in their messages by the constant invasions by America in Iraq or Afghanistan.

      Yes, Islam is not monolithic, which is why we cannot clump all Muslims as condoning these kinds of attacks. The best thing we can do to encourage the moderate muslims and other sects is by not being imperialists and creating conditions where extremism thrives.

      • EtoculusDei

        “The best thing we can do to encourage the moderate muslims and other sects is by not being imperialists and creating conditions where extremism thrives.”

        Moderate Muslims are about as rare as unicorns these days.

        If there truly were millions upon millions of moderate Muslims they would have stopped this nonsense long ago. You are deluding yourself. We’ve waited 15 years for them to speak up. It’s not going to happen.

        The best thing we can do is take whatever measures are necessary to protect ourselves and our culture. Why should WE care what happens to the Muslims who have slaughtered over 25,000 people in violent terrorist attacks since 2001.

        Like the author said….name one Muslim controlled country where:

        1) Homosexuals are allowed to be openly gay.
        2) Women are given equal rights.
        3) Other religions are allowed to freely practice their faith and are not oppressed.

        A much wiser man once pointed out that you can not get good fruit from a bad tree. Nor will you ever get bad fruit from a good tree. The fruits of this movement are horrific. It is a bad tree.

      • wawoo

        Not true. Most Muslims are moderate in their daily lives and those who are in the West and those who have access to the wider world are being moderated by what they see.

      • EtoculusDei

        Silence does not Equal moderation….it equals approval and complicity.

      • DNA

        Most Muslims are peaceful and don’t want to get involved in disputes. They just want to live like you and I. They leave the defending of Islam to their leaders who clearly aren’t up to the job.

      • EtoculusDei

        If you accept the most recent surveys of Muslim nations……20 percent of Muslims believe in Sharia law and all it’s tenants and also the aims of the New Jihad.

        There are 1.57 Billion Muslims in the world. 20 percent of 1.57 Billion is 314 Million people.

        That’s 314 Million people who think infidels should either be forced to convert according to Sharia Law…….or be eliminated according to the New Jihad.

        314 million is NOT a small group by anyone’s definition. Did I mention that the 1.57 Billion number is by all accounts growing exponentially??

        Sorry Sport….no cigar.

        We have a huge problem here and it’s way past time we pulled our heads out of our asses and dealt with it.

      • DNA

        I believe in the goodness of man that people are in general good not evil. I do not support demonising Muslims as they are just people like you and I who deserve to be treated with respect.

        Criminal groups within Islam need to be brought to justice but I don’t hold what they do against all Muslims or the Quran or Muhammad.

        People who demonise Muslims are stooping to the level Hitler did with regards to the Jews and that ended up with 6 million dead.

        Muslims are very good people and Mia not being brainwashed into jumping onto the demonising bandwagon. ISIS and Al Quaeda are groups we have to deal with but Muslims, the Quran, Prophet Muhammad have nothing to do with these war criminals.

      • EtoculusDei

        How Ironic that while the Muslims are killing thousands of innocent people every single month……decapitating little children…….you see Nazism in those who would call them on their evil.

        The other day…a group of them starved a mother…and then tricked her into eating her own child…..and YOU…YOU are trying to tell the world they should be afraid of people like me. 314 million people who want to kill me and my family….and your advice is to just ignore them. Brilliant!

        No offense sport….but you’re pretty much full of shlt as far as I’m concerned.

      • DNA

        I’m against demonising 1.6 billion Muslims who’ve done no wrong.

        I’m all for stopping by all means terrorists.

        But trying to demonise all Muslims when they are innocent is prejudice.

        Muslims worldwide are ordinary people like you or I.

        im fully supportive of destroying terrorist groups completely without mercy.

        But I’m not countenancing the demonising of 1.6 billion Muslims for what some evil groups do.

      • EtoculusDei

        So how many children would have to be decapitated before you would admit there is a problem?? How many people need to be burned alive in cages on TV. How many innocent women burned alive by their own husbands before the so called moderate Muslims speak out in one single voice of condemnation. I’ve been waiting many years now……..and the silence of their response is deafening.

        All I ever here is people like you…..who completely ignore this growing mountain of victims while you whine and cry about the Muslims reputation. Why don’t THEY do something about their own reputation and stop the violence. It shouldn’t be hard if there are 1.5 billion peaceful Muslims….as you say….right??? When can we expect that to happen. Oh right……that would be never because…YOU….are full of shlt.

      • Philip Schroeder

        “I’m against demonising 1.6 billion Muslims who’ve done no wrong.”

        Don’t they support the Quran which demands violence against nonmuslims?

      • Sarita La Cubanita

        People are all the same. They are all made of flesh, blood, bone. The difference lies in their ideology. Islam is a demonic (if there are such things as demons), ideology, promoting sadism, misogyny, beheadings, honor killings, terror, murder, and never-ending threats. Those who are raised in that ideology, and do not rebel from it, agree with those things. SO, while everyone is the same biologically and physiologically, Muslims cannot be said to be the same, and the proof is in the pudding. No one else behaves like Islamics worldwide. They have been beheading and terrorizing since before the 800s.

      • DNA

        1.6 billion Muslim do not believe in extremist, fanatical forms of Islam. The small minority which grabs the headlines makes it look that way but you’re dead wrong generalising in such an unjust way.

        I believe in the Quran and Muhammad and I’m not violent nor are millions of Baha’is.

        Muslims are very good, upright noble people except the ones you read in the newspapers and headline news. Christian countries have an agenda to condemn Muhammad and the Quran because Christian clergy feel threatened by Islam as it is the fastest growing religion in the world.

        99.9% of negative information about Islam comes from Christian countries and their press.

        I am a Baha’i. I investigated the truth with my own eyes not through the media and I found Muhammad not only to be a true prophet of God but prophesied in the Bible by Christ Himself.

        I get my information from the Word of God not biased and prejudiced media who only print negative things about Islam done by people who betray their own religion and are mad fanatics not true Muslims at all.

        Baha’u’llah, Who is the Promised Messiah of all Faiths has written that Muhammad was a true Prophet of God and that the Quran was the Word of God and that Islam is now dead spiritually but once was a great unifying Faith.

        I trust Baha’u’llah’s Words above that of the media as His motives are love, unity, peace and universal brotherhood.

      • Sarita La Cubanita

        Baha’is are a peaceful people. They don’t behead others, they don’t bury women to their neck and stone them to death, they don’t do honor killings, they don’t lock people in cages and set fire to them, they don’t throw gays off buildings, they don’t use children as shields in a war they provoke, they don’t treat females worse than donkeys, they don’t have a war declared against the West. What’s more, Islam’s violence goes way back even before the 700s, a history of “conquest” by beheading and torturing. This, long before the Crusades (the Crusades being a response to Islam’s behavior). Islam is a perversion of Judaism, a perversion of Christianity, and an inclusion of every misogynist, torturous act a human can think of. And the worst of it is, that it refuses to change, and it’s already been a long time.

        Here is a factual explanation of ‘the TEENY TINY Islamic minority” that likes violence:
        youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

      • DNA

        I agree that all Islam is responsible for shutting down terrorism but the problem is that Muhammad was prevented at death from appointing a successor so Islam never had one central authority to direct their Faith. That resulted in so called ‘scholars’ which all had varying and conflicting views and resulting in Islam being disjointed and unable to unitedly crush corruption and now terrorism.

        Baha’is believe every religion is revealed for the needs of its age to be superseded by another Faith when humanity has progressed and requires new laws for a new age.

        Baha’u’llah for instance abolished Holy War so holy war is no longer valid in this age. He also abolished priesthood so mullahs and priests in this day will find their power decline. He also explained how Muslims have misinterpreted the ‘last prophet’ verse in the Quran and that Muhammad was only the last Prophet of the Adamic cycle not the last prophet forever.

        Islam now is spiritually dead and what we witness now is not really Islam anymore but an organisation that has gone far astray.

        Baha’is believe in the Quran and Muhammad and none of us are terrorists. We believe that mullahs are the instigators and perpetrators of Islamic fundamentalism, fanaticism and terrorism and that they misuse the Quran for political purposes because we believe in the Quran but none of us are violent because our teacher, Baha’u’llah, a Prophet of God teaches the true version not the violent version propagated by ill wishing jihadists.

        The new teachings for this age given to us by Baha’u’llah are the equality and unity of all people. That we must be free from prejudice and love all mankind as our own family. That we need to see the whole earth as one country and humanity as its citizens and love all races, nationalities and treat all humanity as equals.

        Many have not moved on to this new age and try and live in the past when we were less civilised and laws more crude. This is mainly because there is an imbalance in power between man and woman and men’s more aggressive nature dominates Islam. If women were allowed to have equal say and power in world affairs Baha’is believe we would already have peace for woman basically is against violence and war and more family orientated.

        Current day Islam will go through untold suffering and we can see that they are killing each other because they have lost their way. thr only way to stop terrorism is for mankind to all unite and do everything jointly to exterminate militant groups.

        As for the philosophy of violence Baha’is believe the only way to change this is through education – that the oneness and equality of humanity must be taught in all schools in all the world so all people are taught from a very young age that humanity is one family and we must love humanity above love for race and nationality and regard all faiths as epiphany and none as superior.

      • david ramseur

        How the hell could anyone with a conscience rever or follow Muhammed. The Hadith admits many horrible truths about him, that is, if he even existed.

      • Philip Schroeder

        Then you should have no problems explaining this

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxFRnyoEEr0

      • Philip Schroeder

        Ah, and if you want to say, this is not in the Quran, here, have a look

        http://quran.com/9/28-30

      • nemesis_1

        “The small minority which grabs the headlines makes it look that way but you’re dead wrong generalising in such an unjust way.”

        This ‘small minority’ is actually who decides what Islamic doctrine ‘means’ for the rest of the Islamic world.

        This past April, the head spiritual leader of Islam in Iran said – on Television – that Iran needs to join together with Egypt to destroy the Jews.

        So much for your ‘small minority.’

        Islam is a death-cult.

      • PythonGuy

        “I’m against demonising 1.6 billion Muslims who’ve done no wrong.”

        These 1.6 billion are the ones quietly supporting jihad financially through muslim “charities”.

      • nemesis_1

        “I’m against demonising 1.6 billion Muslims who’ve done no wrong.’

        Islamic culture has big problems. ALL of Islamic culture. The ‘not bad’ Muslims are doing a really shitty job of bringing the ‘bad’ Muslims in line.

        Therefore, they are just as responsible.

      • James Soften

        Lmao are your completely stupid or just pretending to be. Lord help us all!

      • PythonGuy

        “They just want to live like you and I.”

        Not really. They never integrate and generally want nothing to do with anyone outside the muslim belief system. They also belief in being 2 faced, showing a smiling face to your enemy while you collaborate behind his back. There is nothing peaceful about muslims.

      • DNA

        They? Who? So you set yourself up as some sort of God judging and condemning an entire race of people for their beliefs. You know these people personally or are you all knowing or do you just believe everything the media tells you?

        The majority of 1.6 billion Muslims have committed no crime and done no wrong so demonising these innocent people on pure speculation and assumption exposes an attitude of prejudice and hatred towards your fellow human beings for we are human first before all else.

        It’s a massive injustice on your part to attribute blame towards the innocent and it’s what ISIS and other extremist groups do and how they learn to hate.

        Our true glory is to love and respect all peoples of whatever race, nation, religion and culture and promote harmony and peace not stir up hatred and hostility towards others because that’s what terrorists do. Are you a terrorist too who believes in hating and condemning Muslims just like the terrorist promote hatred of the west??

        The spreading of hate is dispicable by no matter whom.

        Lying is against all religion. Mullahs interpret the Quran to suit their interests but no Holy Book promotes lying.

        We need people who will stand for peace and tolerance and unity in this world are you one of them or are you just interested in a tit for tat fight with Muslims because of some low life terrorists?

        It’s gutter speak to condemn other religions and races and people. You’re better than that than to jump on this bigotry bandwagon and follow every Tom, Dick and Harry who is blaming all Muslims and Islam when only the terrorists are the ones to blame.

        I’ve studied the Quran and Islam for 40 years as well as all other Faiths and no Faith teaches evil. But you can google all you like and find umpteen dozen derogatory things said about Islam claiming to be Islamic but when in fact are either written by enemies of Islam or are not the authentic sayings of Muhammad or misinterpretations of the Quran by idiots.

        I have an arsenal of truth backing me up and not the trash one finds in Google but real truth from Baha’u’llah the Promised One for this age Who all humanity have awaited.

        He has come to unite a divided humanity and bring peace and nothing can prevent peace from happening. Peace is inevitable and nothing anyone says to spread hate can prevent the ultimate unity of mankind as one family.

        Trash talk about any race, religion or people is just that, trash talk and makes you look bad. Be a person of peace, of love spreading harmony and promoting friendship between East and west.

        We must educate people to see all humanity as one family and to love all the world. That is the urgent need of our time. People who will promote universal brotherhood and not this divisive hostile trash that only breeds hatred and sorrow.

        Be a lover of mankind and let our force of love all join together to destroy the hate.

        Darkness can only be conquered by light. We all must as far as possible turn on our light of peace, of tolerance of goodwill to all men so that the light of unity illumines the whole world.

        No-one knows the innermost secrets of people’s hearts except God so rubbish like surveys do not portray a true reflection of what people actually believe. What does is their actions and Muslims are not evil in any way only terrorists are.

        How did the holocaust occur? By people setting themselves up as God judging and condemning an entire race of people to the point they didn’t raise any objection to gassing 6 million of them.

        I’m not on the bandwagon for placing millions of Muslims into a future holocaust by agreeing to demonise and desensitise my feelings towards them as equal human beings and I suggest everyone do likewise.

        If there is a future Muslim holocaust created by today’s indifference toward Muslims due to some fanatics then I want it made clear I’m fighting tooth and nail to prevent it because all humans on this planet are my brothers and sisters not evil demons.

      • PythonGuy

        “They? Who? So you set yourself up as some sort of God judging and condemning an entire race of people for their beliefs.”

        No one is condemning. I’m making observations about the Muslims I’ve grown up around for 30+ years. I know for a fact “Taqiyya” exists in the Muslim faith and the people I’ve seen who are Muslim only socialize with Muslims. How many “moderate” Muslims are waving the American flag chanting “Death to America” and “Death to Israel”.

        “The majority of 1.6 billion Muslims have committed no crime and done no wrong so demonising these innocent people on pure speculation and assumption exposes an attitude of prejudice and hatred towards your fellow human beings for we are human first before all else.”

        Yet it’s Muslims who are killing people all the time. Oh yea, and the crony capitalists like George Bush who make war for no reason.

        “It’s a massive injustice on your part to attribute blame towards the innocent and it’s what ISIS and other extremist groups do and how they learn to hate.”

        Not really, I think you’re taking this way too personally as seems typical when people criticize Islam. I think the reason you’re getting so upset about my post is that what I said is true and it bothers you.

        “Our true glory is to love and respect all peoples of whatever race, nation, religion and culture and promote harmony and peace not stir up hatred and hostility towards others because that’s what terrorists do.”

        Bullshit. Islam’s idea that “true glory is to love and respect all peoples of whatever race, nation, religion and culture and promote harmony” probably makes sense as long as everyone is Muslim. If not, then convert, die and face the wrath of Allah.

        “Are you a terrorist too who believes in hating and condemning Muslims just like the terrorist promote hatred of the west??”

        No, I just think Muslims cannot be trusted much like they don’t trust any non-Muslim and I would prefer if they practiced their religion somewhere else. Is that fair? No, it’s not. But life is not fair. I want any religion that promotes the outright killing of non-believers and the followers of that religion as far away from me and my family as possible. Whether that religion is Islam, white supremacy, Nazism, anything. It has no place in the world.

      • DNA

        The idea that we must love all races, nations, faiths and peoples is a Baha’i Teaching not a Muslim teaching. The Baha’i Faith is an entirely different religion.

        I am a Baha’i not a Muslim but I defend Muhammad and the Quran (not Muslims) because we Baha’is believe Muhammad was a Prophet of God for that time not this age and that the Quran was also a Holy Book meant for that age not this age.

        We Baha’is believe Muslims have got it wrong about Muhammad being the last Prophet. We only believe Muhammad was the last Prophet of the Adamic Cycle or Prophetic Cycle but not the last prophet forever. It does not state that Muhammad is the last Prophet forever – that is their interpretation.

        We are now in a new technological age where the world has contracted into a neighbourhood and the different and often conflicting cultures, faiths and nationalities come into close contact and so we need an ideal that unites us not divides us and that’s why Baha’u’llah came to bring the teaching that we are all one family living on one earth and that we are all equal. That no one Faith or people is superior to another and that we need to accept this concept of the oneness and equality of all men to have peace.

        But Muslims live in the past and are trying to apply laws and teachings meant for a different age to today’s era and it’s having disastrous consequences.

        Interestingly Baha’u’llah abolished the law of Jihad well before nuclear weapons were invented as He is All Knowing and knew that this age could be annihilated if you put jihad together with nukes.

        Baha’is are persecuted and have been because they believe another Prophet has come to guide humanity.

        But Baha’u’llah is not just another Prophet. Baha’u’llah is the Promised One of the Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian and Muslim Faiths. All religions talk of a great day when the earth will be changed into a paradise. That day is approaching.

        Soon we will have peace and a new world but not before lots of conflict and suffering. But Baha’is believe that the world after entering a dark time will emerge into a golden age of peace.

      • david ramseur

        Mo was by no definition holy. His bio in the Quran / Hadith / and reliance of the traveller reveal him as an epileptic, demonized, genocidal madman. A predatory pedophile. A notorious robber, a ruthless tyrant, a greedy, prideful, liar. A sadistic torturer bereft of compassion. Muslims become terrorists by emulating this pos. I wonder why followers of Christ do not behave the same way? Maybe because Jesus (the Christian one) actually is holy!

      • david ramseur

        Islam is not a race! It is a putrid belief system that turns men into monsters of the worst kind. ISIS follows the Quran, they emulate Mo, and they practice pure Islam as it is commanded in the texts. Peaceful Muslims are cultural not orthodox or obedient. They are Muslim in name only, apostates who real Muslims would execute because they are commanded to!

      • Philip Schroeder

        First of all, Islam is not a race, and then please explain why it is wrong to judge people following an ideology according to the ideologies rule book?

      • DNA

        The innocent don’t have to reply to anyone as they have done no wrong just like you don’t have to go to the cop shop for someone else’s crime.

        Muslims who have nothing to do with terrorism have nothing to answer for and we should not pronounce a guilty verdict on the innocent as that is pure injustice.

        The theory that all Muslims are tied up with terrorism either directly or indirectly is pure fantasy and born from not reading the Quran for oneself but believing all the hype and prejudice in the news.

        There is no clause in the Quran which commands Muslims to go out and murder people. The Quote that you often see used by enemies of Islam is Sura 2:191 which says to go out and kill everyone BUT they NEVER quote the verse before which says……..

        There are numerous translations of this verse by credible translators which clearly show the Quran States that Muslims are not to attack first.
        The most renowned so called critics of Islam always quote Sura 2:191 but not the sura before it. If you read the sura before it the intentions of these evil people to discredit Islam becomes very, very clear because the Quran forbids attacking innocent people or attacking first… Read on and be enlightened with the truth not the lies you get from poisoned minds.

        Quran Sura 2:190

        George Sale

        “And fight for the religion of GOD against those who fight against you; but transgress not by attacking them first, for GOD loveth not the transgressors.”

        Excerpt From: “The Koran (Al-Qur’an).”

        “And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice”

        Excerpt From: Muhammad. “The Koran translated by Rodwell.”

        “[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.”

        Excerpt From: Dr. Rashad Khalifa Ph.D. “Quran: The Final Testament – Authorised English Version.” Dr. Rashad Khalifa Ph.D.

        2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.”

        Excerpt From: Pickthall, Marmaduke. “The Meaning Of The Glorious Quran.”

      • EtoculusDei

        Blah blah blah blah…Heard it all before. Did you see ISIS experimenting with more horrific ways to kill people yesterday. Their newest entrees for death are group decapitation by explosive tape and drowning groups of people in a cage. You can blow all the smoke you want up someone else ass…..but I’m gonna be out here every day calling a spade a spade. Islam is evil and so are the people who practice it.

      • DNA

        So America dropped an atom bomb on Horoshima killing and maiming innocents you approve?? That’s not evil??

        Man doesn’t need Islam to commit evil. Hitler killed 6 million Jews not in the name of Islam.

        Humanity’s history is filled with war and bloodshed not peculiar to Islam only. All nations have been involved in mass slaughter of innocents.

        You are trying to blame all on Islam when the USA has killed 100’000’s with an atom bomb.

        It’s the hype in the media trying to portray Islam as the sole evil in the world yet our history shows that the west has committed just as many atrocities. The drones killing family after family go unreported because the media don’t want Muslims to be treated or seen as equal human beings.

        Humanity is one family. Muslim, Christian, Jew are only names and labels. We are all human beings. Human beings are not born evil and there are many wonderful people in the east and west. We shouldn’t be prejudiced but welcome all people as equals. Terrorists and killers are not included but not everyone is a terrorist as you make out.

      • EtoculusDei

        Do you have a calendar?? Good. Check it out. It’s not 1945. It’s today. The Muslims are killing people today. Do you honestly think that if you can find an equivalent evil in the past…that gets THESE murder’s off the hook TODAY??? Use your brain for something besides a hat stand.

        Humanity is NOT one family. It never has been….it never will be.

      • EtoculusDei

        www:
        Islam’s Latest Contributions to Peace “Mohammed
        is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are
        harsh
        to the unbelievers but merciful to one
        another” Quran 48:29

        2015.06.25 (Kobane, Iraq) – Women and children are among fifteen Kurds
        killed by an ISIS car bomb.

        2015.06.24 (Tahtakoruk, China) – At least three defenders are killed when a
        Muslim mob descends on a police checkpoint with knives
        and bombs.

        2015.06.23 (Aden, Yemen) – Seven civilians are killed when Shiite milita
        fire rockets into their neighborhood.

        2015.06.23 (Balad Ruz, Iraq) – A dozen Iraqis at a tribal meeting are
        slaughtered by two Fedayeen suicide
        bombers.

        2015.06.23 (Hassakeh, Syria) – Two Shahid suicide bombers claim ten other
        souls near a children’s hospital.

        2015.06.23 (Wagir, Nigeria) – A ’12-year-old’ girl self-detonates in a
        crowded market. Shrapnel from the suicide vest lays out
        ten patrons.

      • SOMEGUY7893 .

        And American drones in planes have killed far more civilians, your point?

      • EtoculusDei

        My point is:
        Weekly Jihad Report
        Jun 27 – Jul 03
        Jihad Attacks: 68
        Allah Akbars*: 9
        Dead Bodies: 779
        Critically Injured: 841

        Monthly Jihad Report June 2015:
        Jihad Attacks: 262
        Countries: 29
        Allah Akbars: 48
        Dead Bodies: 2426
        Critically Injured: 2582

        Ramadan Bombathon:
        2015 Scorecard

        Deaths caused by the religion of peace
        Terror attacks: 221
        Suicide Bombings: 45
        Dead Bodies: 2177
        Wounded: 2655

        By all other religions combined during same period: 00000

      • max

        If that bomb wasnt drop. Us filipino would be still slaves from japanese raping our womens killing our men and no rights to anything. because of that we are now a country. i know its not right that they died but it was a way to stop an evil opressive country in that time. who knows how many they could have opressed when america were not able to stop them.

      • DNA

        You’re right and I acknowledge that. The thing I’m trying to get across is that mass killing is not unique to Islam. WW1 & WW2 with the Japanese, Stalin, Hitler and the USA provided millions and millions of dead.

        the weekly or even daily deaths of 50 or 100 or 200 by terrorists doesn’t come anywhere near the millions killed by the great wars yet the press and media are sensationalising and dramatising it as if it is yet it’s not.

        Most Muslims are not interested in war. Terrorists are a minority group or groups that claim to represent Islam but in many quarters are rejected.

        What they are trying to do with all these gruesome killings is get media attention to build up membership and it is working because the world press plays right into their hands because it sells papers and also feeds their Christian prejudices against Muhammad but it is a trap.

        Terrorists are aiming to build up armies, large armies through propaganda like Hitler but through recruiting by showing just how important they are. When the media is making international headlines over 1 or 2 or 20 foreigners killed they are giving credibility to terrorist groups which helps them recruit more members and create larger armies.

        The real threat is not the current terrorists but what they can become in a decade if the media keeps building them up as they do.

        If terrorists received no publicity their cause would crumble overnight but the west is not clever and is helping them recruit by ‘advertising’ Islam worldwide and then recruiters tell their prospective members that the name of Islam is going all over the world and catch naive stupid people who are disillusioned with either poverty or the west.

        Compared to UNICEF’s documented 9.7 million babies dying each year from preventable diseases the deaths caused by terrorism is a pittance yet receives NO worldwide coverage????????

        Why are we even discussing this rather than how to stop war and poverty instead? Why aren’t we discussing how stopping all wars could bring worldwide universal employment and universal free Medicare and free education for all humanity?????

        Which is the greatest crime the pittance deaths caused by terrorism or the billions who suffer due to money being invested in war and not in improving people’s lives??

        Why are governments only too willing to put $billions into war against terrorism yet not that same amount of money into their own people??? Where is universal Medicare and employment and education?

        I maintain that no country is even trying to defeat ISIS because they are great for arms sales and are causing Middle East countries to buy plenty of arms from France, Russia, China, USA etc.

        Don’t you think that the forces of humanity or even the USA alone could not defeat ISIS in a flash if they really wanted to?? ISIS are a tiny, tiny, tiny group but yet they serve the great purpose of feeding the arms dealers with $billions of profits. Countries in that area are becoming alarmed so they buy big and so no country will stop wars such as in Syria etc because there’s too much $$$ to be made.

        Otherwise ISIS is a very tiny insignificant group unlike Hitler, Stalin or the Japanese. But the media gives the false impression that they are a massive group endangering all humanity which is a joke. The focus on ISIS is all about profit from arms and trying to discredit Muhammad and Islam but they all know that ISIS poses no real threat that’s why they don’t finish them off quickly.

      • SOMEGUY7893 .

        “If that bomb wasnt drop. Us filipino would be still slaves from japanese raping our womens”
        How exactly? We liberated the Philippines before dropping the A-bombs.

      • nemesis_1

        Muslims will do whatever they have to do to shift the blame away from their culture. It’s all part of their ‘cultural jihad.’ When they should be admitting the bad things about Islamic culture and doctrine so that Islam can come clean and LIBERALIZE, they’re obfuscating, hedging, and misdirecting.

        We’re not buying it.

      • Patti York

        It may interest you to know that islam holds the world record for filling body bags. More than 280 million since it’s inception, 14 centuries ago. Eighty million of those killed were in just one country, India. It might also interest you to know that America does not have a monopoly on genocide and conquest. It is something that human beings have been doing for all time.

      • DNA

        The issue here is that we don’t want any more human blood spilt by anyone east or west. We want peace and for everyone to spend their money on constructive things like jobs for the unemployed and healthcare and education for people everywhere basically free. The money spent on killing we could all both east and west be all rich and wealthy.

        Ther is no justification for this confused killing of anyone. No need to start a world war just go after the terrorists is enough but innocent people are getting killed here senselessly.

        The world is only one species and one race the human race. Labels we place on people to demonise them only results in more hatred and more war.

        We need to learn to get on with all people and not hate one race or religion because of what some idiots are doing.

        America has the most wealth and the biggest army and claims to be intelligent and has freedom and human rights then how come since America’s founding it has not been able to establish world peace.

        If the most powerful nation in earth truly wanted peace the rest of the world would follow but America is too busy killing people to be interested in peace.

        We need peace. The Americans are not calling for it and the Muslims aren’t either so we people got to unite and demand world peace or all our taxes will go to buying tanks, bombs and guns while we struggle to make ends meet which is stupid.

        Life is for happiness not for killing and destroying and the sooner both west and east can sit down and work out a compromise the world will be a better place. But more guns and bombs! We’ve already had two world wars and did war go away? No. What we need is peace to get rid of war. To all sit down and work out a solution. But which power wants peace? No-one. I’m sick of war and conflict and expect from my leaders to work for peace not investing my taxes in more sophisticated killing machines that only cause more ward and misery.

        War is the greatest curse of humanity and the only way out is to stop and start thinking about a new world without dreaded war.

      • Patti York

        War does not just magically end. One side must have a decisive victory, THEN it ends. That is the only way.

      • DNA

        The whole human race must come together to establish world peace. This is how it will be done. Baha’u’llah over a century ago wrote this for today’s age.

        “The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men.” “They must make the Cause of Peace the object of general consultation, and seek by every means in their power to establish a Union of the nations of the world. They must conclude a binding treaty and establish a covenant, the provisions of which shall be sound, inviolable and definite. They must proclaim it to all the world and obtain for it the sanction of all the human race. This supreme and noble undertaking—the real source of the peace and well-being of all the world—should be regarded as sacred by all that dwell on earth. All the forces of humanity must be mobilized to ensure the stability and permanence of this Most Great Covenant. In this all-embracing Pact the limits and frontiers of each and every nation should be clearly fixed, the principles underlying the relations of governments towards one another definitely laid down, and all international agreements and obligations ascertained. In like manner, the size of the armaments of every government should be strictly limited, for if the preparations for war and the military forces of any nation should be allowed to increase, they will arouse the suspicion of others. The fundamental principle underlying this solemn Pact should be so fixed that if any government later violate any one of its provisions, all the governments on earth should arise to reduce it to utter submission, nay the human race as a whole should resolve, with every power at its disposal, to destroy that government. Should this greatest of all remedies be applied to the sick body of the world, it will assuredly recover from its ills and will remain eternally safe and secure.”

        Baha’u’llah

      • DNA

        When America was the only one to have nukes they nuked Japan into submission.

        There’s no such thing as winning a war in a nuclear world. It’s peace or worldwide destruction.

      • EtoculusDei

        Weekly Jihad Report
        Jun 06 – Jun 12

        Jihad Attacks: 37

        Allah Akbars*: 7

        Dead Bodies: 349

        Critically Injured: 267

      • EtoculusDei

        Islam’s Latest Contributions to Peace “Mohammed
        is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are
        harsh
        to the unbelievers but merciful to one
        another” Quran 48:29

        2015.06.25 (Kobane, Iraq) – Women and children are among fifteen Kurds
        killed by an ISIS car bomb.

        2015.06.24 (Tahtakoruk, China) – At least three defenders are killed when a
        Muslim mob descends on a police checkpoint with knives
        and bombs.

        2015.06.23 (Aden, Yemen) – Seven civilians are killed when Shiite milita
        fire rockets into their neighborhood.

        2015.06.23 (Balad Ruz, Iraq) – A dozen Iraqis at a tribal meeting are
        slaughtered by two Fedayeen suicide
        bombers.

        2015.06.23 (Hassakeh, Syria) – Two Shahid suicide bombers claim ten other
        souls near a children’s hospital.

        2015.06.23 (Wagir, Nigeria) – A ’12-year-old’ girl self-detonates in a
        crowded market. Shrapnel from the suicide vest lays out
        ten patrons.

      • nemesis_1

        “Muslims who have nothing to do with terrorism have nothing to answer for”

        Yes they do.

        “The theory that all Muslims are tied up with terrorism either directly
        or indirectly is pure fantasy and born from not reading the Quran for
        oneself but believing all the hype and prejudice in the news.”

        Not all Muslims HAVE to be tied up with terrorism; just ENOUGH of them.

        “There are numerous translations of this verse by credible translators
        which clearly show the Quran States that Muslims are not to attack
        first.”

        These verses often occur EARLIER in the Quran, and are ABROGATED by what comes later in the Quran. If you know about the principle of Abrogation, and you don’t say anything about it, you’re commititng TAQIYYA. You’re purposely lying.

        IMO – you’re a jihadist supporter.

      • EtoculusDei

        Since you seem to like numbers but lack perspective:

        More people are killed by Islamistseach year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.

        Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.

        More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.

        Also if you accept the low pew statistic that only 23 percent of Muslims support the Jihad that is 414 million people. That is not an inconsequential figure.

      • wawoo

        You are quite the Catholic apologist.
        And spin your facts in a dizzying way.
        Thus they are presented in non meaningful context.

      • EtoculusDei

        Since you’re interested in facts…..but obviously not the conclusions a reasonable person would derive from them….here’s one you may find helpful. I am not Catholic. I’m sure you’ll find another way to deride me. That’s the usual liberal method for dealing with people who arrive bearing inconvenient information.

        I love the way you just danced over 414 Million radical Muslims as if they did not exist. Unfortunately their victims won’t have that opportunity.

        Here’s some more numbers for you to dance around:

        For January:

        Jihad Attacks:61
        Allah Akbars*:15
        Dead Bodies:745
        Critically Injured:337

        No other group of people have ever racked up numbers like these. Not bad for only the middle of the month.

      • DNA

        745 dead. How many were killed in Hiroshima? The Tutsi war one million. The Killing fields – 2 million. The Holocaust 6 million. WW1 & WW2 all millions perished at the hands of NON MUSLIMS.

        Was that just 745 or 745 million you said?? So the 745 that Muslims allegedly killed is more horrible than the above 10 or more MILLION???

        Please stop demonising Muslims and get some perspective. The worst killers in human history have not been Muslims and they’ve got a long, long way to catch up with the rest.

        The fact that the press and media magnifies one death like it was one million just shows how anti Muslim they are and how far removed they are from being fair and unbiased. How many of our killings with drones of innocent families go UNREPORTED. WHY? To stigmatise Islam and try and portray it as an evil religion. I DONT BUY IT. There are good and bad in all nations, races and religions. To single out one and DEMONISE it is WRONG.

        Be a lover of humanity. Love all people all countries and nations and don’t be sucked into this hate propaganda. All humanity are just ordinary people like you and I don’t buy this hatred against Islam which is a good religion with very good people.

      • EtoculusDei

        You respond with things like “The Tutsi war one million” and then ask me to get some perspective while the blood of Islam’s most recent victims hasn’t even dried yet……..seriously?? What, you’re not going to throw in the Crusades and Global warming???

        You say…be a lover of humanity…..while you insist I sit silent while Jews and Christians are killed with impunity by Muslims all over the globe?? Is that what you call love……silence in the face of evil?? Am I a lover of mankind if I can walk over the corpses of your children while turning a blind eye to their deaths?? You have a strange definition of love buddy.

        That was a nice attempt at deflection but you arguments are as ridiculous as you are.

      • Philip Schroeder

        It doesn’t matter how many others killed, fact is, people are killed in the name of Allah.

      • DNA

        It matters a lot because God didn’t kill anyone, man killed his fellow man.
        Allah simply means God in English.

        God never killed anyone. It’s people killing people then saying God is responsible which is a load of rubbish as God is love and loves us all deeply and would never do such things to us.

      • EtoculusDei

        Here’s some help for you on that context thingy:

        What is Islamization?
        By Nicolai Sennels, psychologist

        Islamization is a phenomenon that has existed since the Muslim prophet Mohammed lived 1,400 years ago. The word ‘Islamization’ was originally coined by Muslims to describe the conversion of a kufr (infidel) society to an ‘enlightened’ (Islamic) society.

        Islamization has been effective, since Islam is now the main religion in 57 countries. The association of Islamic countries – the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC), is today one of the world’s largest supra-national organizations, surpassed only by the United Nations (UN).

        Three roads to Islamization
        One road to Islamization is to remove non-Islamic traditions and symbols. This is done to avoid offending Muslims or expose Muslims to proselytizing by other faiths. It also aims to reduce competition from the country’s original religion and culture in order to improve the possibilities for further Islamization.

        An example is the Red Cross’ refusal to decorate for Christmas in their stores, or when banks no longer hands out piggy banks to their customers’ kids (because pigs are unclean in Islam). In both cases, this is done in order not to offend Muslims and thus lose Muslim customers.

        Another way Islamization is accomplished is by making Islamic traditions and rules part of non-Islamic societies.

        Examples of this phenomenon are construction or refurbishment of public sports facilities to cater for Muslims’ inhibited views on nudity and contact between the sexes, or the imposition of forced leave on Islamic holidays.

        A third way Islamization occurs is when certain areas or neighbourhoods acquire such a high a proportion of Muslims that the country’s indigenous culture and people are pushed out.

        One example is when non-Islamic authorities such as police and fire departments meet with disrespect, threats and/or violence, while imams, patrolling police-style Muslim fathers’ groups, homemade Sharia Courts, and Islamic mediation meetings are free to exercise their power. Another example is when Jews cannot wear yarmulke or girls can not wear miniskirts in Muslim-dominated areas, because they risk being attacked.

        Islamization thus occurs through the systematic elimination of indigenous culture, the introduction of Islamic traditions and cultural practices through immigration and the gradual building of Muslim parallel societies.

      • wawoo

        Substitute “Christian conversion” and “Jesus” for Islamization and Mohammed and you have it covered.

      • wri7913

        Show me where Christians are killing people and beheading them in large numbers and you might have merit. As such you have none and your arguments are pointless. You don’t get the point and when it is shown to you, you simply ignore it.

      • DNA

        They have still yet to equal Hiroshima and the Holocaust as well as WW1 and WW2. Millions died at the hands of non Muslims!! It’s easy to look down with self righteous at Muslims when you don’t take into account atrocities like the ‘killing fields’ and the Tutsi war one million dead. Non of these were Muslims yet the number staggers the imagination.

        People who imagine Muslims are the world’s worst offenders when they have been the least compared to the rest need a history lesson. Stalin, Hitler they were Muslims??

        All humanity has blood on its hands. All humanity needs to change. Just blaming Muslims is a real cop out when western governments have been installing dictators in Muslim countries who have oppressed and tortured their people for decades. Saddam Hussein. Mubarak.

        I am not a Muslim but I’m not about to allow people to demonise them when their own countries have much, much more blood on their hands but just are good at covering it all up.

        How many have been killed by drones? Called collateral damage when it’s U.S. doing it killing entire families but when they attack us it’s a ‘terrorist attack’. So self righteous aren’t we. Our murder is ‘good murder’ but there’s is terrible.

        No murder is right or good. The goodies are those who love all humanity without discrimination. Only lovers of ALL humanity regardless of race or religion are the real goodies. Love all mankind.

      • EtoculusDei

        Islam’s Latest Contributions to Peace

        “Mohammed is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are harsh
        to the unbelievers but merciful to one another” Quran 48:29

        2015.03.02 (Baga, Nigeria) – Two men are beheaded on video by radical Islamists.
        2015.03.02 (Jalalabad, Afghanistan) – Two children are pulled into pieces by Holy Warrior bombers.
        2015.03.01 (Aswan, Egypt) – Islamists kill two people in a tourist town with a planted bomb.
        2015.02.27 (Mainok, Nigeria) – Islamist gunmen walk into a market and shoot fourteen traders to death.
        2015.02.27 (Nangarhar, Afghanistan) – Two children are disassembled by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
        2015.02.26 (Jos, Nigeria) – A dozen students are among seventeen innocents shredded by Islamist bombers at a bus station.

      • DNA

        Please read my words.

        I said Islam and the Quran and Prophet Muhammad and 1.6 billion Muslims are not at fault for the criminal activity of ISIS and Al Quaeda.

        The Quran does not teach violence or murder and Muhammad’s military expeditions were ALL defensive.

        I said and agreed that these fanatical groups must be DESTROYED. But I’m not doing what others are and lumping 1.6 good people with these terrorists.

        Kill ISIS but the other 1.6 billion Muslims are innocent and must be treated as equal human beings.

        I’m against these killings but I defend Islam, Prophet Muhammad and the Quran.

        Anybody who tries to blame the the Quran and Prophet Muhammad have no knowledge whatsoever about the history of Islam.

        Again I defend all good people and true religions not ISIS or Al Quaeda which are NOT Muslims as they re interpret the Quran and use it for their own agendas and the Quran forbids this Sura 3:7

        I am the enemy of these groups too but their heinous acts does not give people a green light to attack Muhammad or the Quran which are against wholesale slaughter and murder.

        The Quran and Muhammad are good but ISIS and groups who commit atrocities like them are EVIL.

        I will not categorise all Muslims as evil or the Quran and Muhammad as anything but pure and holy. The Quran and Muhammad teach one thing and these murderers teach another and twist the Quran to suit themselves. We all denounce them.

      • EtoculusDei

        I checked your comments. I found not one single comment where you challenged a fellow Muslim to stand up against the people who are perpetrating these atrocities. You’re silence in that regard can be seen only as assent. You seem only to care about the overall reputation of Muslims…..period. If you were truly appalled you would be equally involved in calling out those people on line that support ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and etc.

        You can bet your ASS that I would not pass a post by someone supporting the Woodsboro Baptist Church without calling them exactly what they are. Likewise, if you follow my posts I condemn anyone who supports the KKK or is needlessly critical of immigrants.

        Even if I accepted your contention that this is a minority force in your faith community, and I don’t, it doesn’t matter. That faction, regardless of its size, is driving the rest of your religion towards a cliff. In 1933 only a tiny portion of the German community was sympathetic towards the Nazi’s. 10 years later they controlled everything.

        I believe that you don’t support this stuff. I also believe that there are Muslims that are outstanding people. But this isn’t a time to worry about how YOU look. People are dying and the numbers are growing more and more every day.

        These extremist are evil and they will eventually bring the wrath of God down on all of us. And if history has taught us anything it is this. When the hammer finally falls…it will fall on the innocent and the guilty in equal measure. Our own personal ideology won’t matter diddly squat. Stop making excuses for those people who inhabit the fringes of your religion. You need to make it clear……very clear….who’s side you are on.

      • DNA

        I’m not a Muslim I’m a Baha’i. We accept the Quran as the Word of God and Muhammad as a Prophet of God but we don’t accept violence of any sort.

        We believe in Baha’u’llah. We believe that no one race or religion or nation is superior to another and that all humanity is one race and see mankind as one family.

        Baha’u’llah taught we must unite against the aggressor in this case any group such as ISIS OR al Quaeda that is intent on murdering innocent people must be destroyed.

        We condemn these atrocities and killings and support fully those who are trying to stop them.

        What unspeakable cruelties they are committing against innocent people. Of course I care and am very upset and sickened at these burnings and beheadings.

        They must not only be stopped but their source cut off. Evil preachers brainwash them to commit these war crimes. The only short term solution is to crush them completely then go after any Muslim teacher preaching hatred towards anyone.

        This is where Baha’is try and promote the teaching of the oneness of all mankind and the equality of religions so that harmful superior attitudes do not cause conflicts.

        In Iran we are refused an education because we are Baha’is. We are demonised. Our cemeteries are desecrated. Our shops closed and we are imprisoned for our beliefs. But we believe that eventually truth will conquer falsehood and love hate and that this hatred and bigotry will be turned into peace and unity.

        Call it a dream but one day the east and west will embrace and all these atrocities will be replaced by unity.

        ISIS won’t last very long. It will be destroyed but not without having caused massive cruelty.

      • EtoculusDei

        If you’re not a Muslim……why are you speaking for Muslims?? If THEY are so peaceful…..why aren’t they speaking for themselves??

        You are one guy. So far…..as long as I have been out here….you’re the first reasonable person from your side that I’ve heard from. I don’t think you’re going to stem this tide alone…..as much as we both wish you could.

        To me….this boils down to a simple question. This is purely rhetorical. I don’t expect you to answer it. But here it is…….where do you think evil resides?? Do you think it is found only in the hearts of man?? If you do….you only grasp half the picture. Evil is a separate entity from us. We don’t, we can’t, control it…..at least not with out the help of a providential and powerful God.

        Ask yourself…..is there anything, political, spiritual, intellectual, that could cause you to decapitate a little girl. Of course there isn’t. Any person that could do that is under the power of an evil so dark that neither of us can fathom it. For the sake of our own families we will have to one day try to destroy it. I shudder to think of the horrors that are on their way.

        There are times in life when you absolutely must chose sides. Christ said you can easily discern the spirit of a thing by it’s fruit. The fruit of radical Islam is Horror. Period. You can not see it’s web and once it has you….you will not be able to escape. Stay far from it.

        That unity thing you mentioned may be part of God’s long term plan…but the near future is a battle between the forces of God and evil. I plan to be fighting on the right side….for God, for humanity….and for my family. I encourage you to do the same.

      • DNA

        Baha’is also believe that the Bible is the Word of God and that Christ is the Son of God.

        If someone or many people were attacking Christ and the Bible I would defend them as they are the indisputable truth from God. Everything good comes from God and Christ. I would fight tooth and nail with every word at my disposal to route such attacks on Christ and the Bible as they are faultless and sinless and what professed Christians may do wrong is not ever the fault of Christ or the Bible and I would refute that eternally no matter all the world were against me because God and Christ would be on my side and with them alone I could withstand the onslaught of all the peoples of the world and their criticisms and prejudices.

        Christ gave His Blood and so did His Apostles sacrifice their all that we may have richer and happier lives and come to know and love God. I will protect, defend and uphold hopefully the Bible and Christ as long as I live.

        We are living in a time when ungodliness is encompassing our world. There is no future for humanity except by turning back to God and His commandments to love one another.

        The Word of God has the power to transform the world and character of man but man refuses to submit to its influence because of worldly passions and desires.

        Christ promised the Kingdom of God would come to our earth and I have complete faith, trust and certainty that it is appearing amidst the chaos we witness now.

        We as Baha’is are building the Kingdom of God on earth. We have been charged with that spiritual responsibility and we are succeeding.

        The time is fast approaching when violence and war will be replaced with joy and brotherhood. Nothing can prevent world peace. No human power can prevent world unity and world brotherhood from appearing amongst men. Nothing can prevent the Hand of God from His Purpose.

        Today you see evil and conflict and contention but God will turn this earth into a paradise and you can see it on the horizon if you look at how humanity has come together. Light destroys darkness. A strong sentiment for peace can destroy all wars. And a thought of love can destroy all hate in us. So we must continue to fight war with peace and hate with love and darkness with light until this world becomes another world.

      • EtoculusDei

        You assume God is that big Hippie in the sky. He is not. War is the inevitable consequence of the fall of man. Wishful thinking is not a defense strategy. ISIS and the Islamic Extremist don’t give a shlt about your views on peace or the brotherhood of man. When they come to kill your family……your theology will be thin comfort to your children as they die.

        I’m not a Quaker. I believe that we have a moral duty to defend ourselves and all other innocents. Failure to do so is a grave sin in the eyes of God….in my humble opinion. Christ said that we are to defend the weak, the fatherless and the widow…..not by preaching but by acting. Love isn’t something you feel…..it’s something you do. Standing mute in the face of evil…….is to give evil your permission. I will NEVER do that.

      • DNA

        You are right. although we believe in love we also believe in justice and if an aggressor like ISIS is attacking innocent people they must be stopped. Here is what Baha’u’llah said in a Tablet to the Kings…..

        Be united, O Kings of the earth, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you, and your people find rest. … Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice. – Baha’u’llah

        So we very much believe in crushing groups like ISIS not laying idle allowing them to destroy us. We firmly support worldwide unity to destroy ISIS and groups like them.

      • EtoculusDei

        Good luck with that world wide unity thing. When man unifies…..it’s usually for the sake of mayhem. Probably something along the lines of coming together to destroy Israel. When that happens I’m digging a deep whole and crawling in it.

        Maybe you need to wait for a consensus…….before you can do the right thing. I’m okay with doing what’s right…..just because it’s righteous. If everyone else doesn’t want to come along…..well that’s between them and the devil as far as I’m concerned. You know what they say a democracy is? It’s a wolf, a coyote, and a chicken voting on what they’re having for lunch.

      • EtoculusDei

        There will be no world wide unity. Man is too selfish…..and too cowardly. In the end it will be a final holocaust. If not precipitated by this…it will be something else in the near future. Read Revelations (Holy Bible)……with a map on hand. Pay close attention to the geographic locations mentioned specifically. Mark the stuff down and think about the current state of world affairs.

        It’s strange when you think of the incredible insignificance of these locations in the modern world. Based on their contributions to humanity and lack of real wealth…….these places shouldn’t even be on a map….much less playing a role in the destiny of man. There is no other explanation for how this could be…other than these are the manifestations of a spiritual battle being waged somewhere beyond our perceptions.

        There are only two possible outcomes now. Either man will come to his senses and suddenly become a lover of peace…….or there will be a terrible conflagration. They say the best predictor of mans future behaviour…..is past behaviour. Based on that alone …..I feel certain we are headed towards that conflagration.

        Know this. I wish peace for you and your family. That no harm befall you and that your journey ends in wisdom and truth. May God have mercy on all of us.

      • DNA

        Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the ‘Most Great Peace’ shall come…. Yet do We see your kings and rulers lavishing their treasures more freely on means for the destruction of the human race than on that which would conduce to the happiness of mankind…. These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family…. Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind…. Baha’u’llah

        The Great Peace towards which people of good will throughout the centuries have inclined their hearts, of which seers and poets for countless generations have expressed their vision, and for which from age to age the sacred scriptures of mankind have constantly held the promise, is now at long last within the reach of the nations. For the first time in history it is possible for everyone to view the entire planet, with all its myriad diversified peoples, in one perspective. World peace is not only possible but inevitable. It is the next stage in the evolution of this planet…( Universal House of Justice)

      • EtoculusDei

        The only problem with that plan….is there are too many people in it. You mention our ability to see the entire planet as IF that made a difference. What difference does that make to a person who can cut off a child’s head while looking into her dying eyes??

        You over estimate mankind. Peace may be inevitable….but it won’t be man’s doing when it comes. I am certain of the prophesies in revelations. The Kingdom of God will come. It will bring a peace. But the war will come first.

      • DNA

        You are very right. Man has strayed too far from God and needs a huge wake up call.

        “The world is in travail and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned toward waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”
        (Bahá’u’lláh: Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Wilmette, 1983, p. 118)

      • James Soften

        You can’t believe the bible and and the Quran are both the word of God lmao. Dude you are being really weird

      • Philip Schroeder

        The Quran says, that the Christians are disbelievers for believing that Jesus is the son of god, how can you believe in the Quran and the Bible at the same time?

      • DNA

        Because the Quran is admonishing Christians for believing Christ was the physical son of God when the term denoted a spiritual station nothing to do with the body.

      • James Soften

        Your either a liar or extremely ignorant. The Quran and muhhumed commands Muslims over and over to wage war against non believers. What in Sam hills name are u talking about.

      • DNA

        I’m not a Muslim. But prejudice and hatred is not truth. Prejudice against any religion or race is evil not goodness. Muhammad, Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Zoraoaster and more recently Baha’u’llah all taught us to love people never hate. You’ve been told so many lies I feel sorry for you. But anything you sincerely wish to discuss I will help you if you sincerely want to know truth and not the rubbish prejudice and hatred you’ve heard from people. All the world is one family of human beings. No race or religion is superior to another. That is what the prophets originally taught but their teachings slowly became replaced by counterfeit doctrines made by priests and mullahs. Trust your own eyes no-one else’s. God gave you a heart and mind to seek truth for yourself not to follow blindly the hatreds and prejudices of others.

        I’ve studied the Quran for 40 years. It does NOT preach hatred or violence. Mullahs do that. Muhammad was an upholder and defender of the victims of oppression from barbarous savages that time.

        He taught self defence not offensive military actions. When you get your source of information from prejudiced enemies of Islam of course you’d make such claims but I looked with my own eyes not what others have said or reported and I found no conflict between the Message of Christ and the Message of Muhammad except they were given for different times and laws were for the needs of those ages not now.

        Let me give you one example of how people are deceived by haters of Islam who don’t want you or others to know the truth.

        Quran Sura 2:191 says to go out and kill everyone right??

        But they never quote the verse before Sura 2:190 which says they are only to kill IF ATTACKED FIRST. Here are some quotes to open your eyes. The haters of Islam will always omit Sura 2:190 and only quote 2:191 trusting that most people are blind sheep and will accept their false claims without using their own God given eyes.

        There are numerous translations of this verse by credible translators which clearly show the Quran States that Muslims are not to attack first. Groups such as ISIS disobey their own Quran and they know it but again the lower members would not be shown 2:191 only 2:190 which says to go out and kill everyone clearly taken out of context.

        Quran Sura 2:190

        George Sale

        “And fight for the religion of GOD against those who fight against you; but transgress not by attacking them first, for GOD loveth not the transgressors.”

        Excerpt From: “The Koran (Al-Qur’an).”

        “And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice”

        Excerpt From: Muhammad. “The Koran translated by Rodwell.”

        “[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.”

        Excerpt From: Dr. Rashad Khalifa Ph.D. “Quran: The Final Testament – Authorised English Version.” Dr. Rashad Khalifa Ph.D.

        2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.”

        Excerpt From: Pickthall, Marmaduke. “The Meaning Of The Glorious Quran.”

      • PythonGuy

        “We all denounce them.”

        Maybe publicly, but let’s face it. When your hear of a Christian, Jew or American dying, you are filled with happiness and delight. what about the “peaceful Muslims” who support terrorism financially while keeping up a “moderate” image? In your attempt at exegesis of the Koran, what do you have to say about Taqiyya?

      • Philip Schroeder

        If the Quran is all good, please explain the following

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxFRnyoEEr0

        If there is something wrong with that, please clarify

      • DNA

        I come armed with the truth. You think me an utter fool to fall for that racist bigotry attempting to distort the purity and sanctity of the Quran??

        The fool giving the dissertation knows well he is misleading EVERYONE and KNOWS he is lying because he is only quoting texts OUT OF CONTEXT which support his argument.

        What he left out and failed to mention was that the military expeditions of Muhammad were ALL DEFENSIVE.

        Why is he lying? Why does he want you and others to hate the Quran you who haven’t got the nouse to ‘see with your own eyes’ or ‘ hear with your own ears’ but prefer to listen to the drivel and garbage that emanates through the mouths of others?? He plays on YOUR IGNORANCE not mine. I am well aware of his lies and I am NOT a Muslim I am a Baha’i who believes in all Faiths. But I defend the truth when it gets attacked and I challenge anyone to challenge the knowledge of Baha’u’llah Who has come to unite the world in one family.

        HERE IS WHAT THAT LIAR LEFT OUT.

        There are numerous translations of this verse 2:190 by credible translators which clearly shows the Quran States that Muslims are not to attack first. Whether they are attacked by Jews or unbelievers or Christians they can only retaliate against attackers of whatever Faith they are so long as the Muslims do NOT ATTACK FIRST AS THE QURAN EXPLCIITLY TELLS yet this JOKER conveniently and jokers like him leave that out hoping fools who don’t check out the facts will fall for his lies and drivel.

        I commend you for bringing this to me so I can set you right that you and others are being LIED TO and that the Quran FORBIDS attacking first. Here is the EVIDENCE by CREDIBLE FAMOUS TRANSLATORS……

        Knowing this verse I can see right through the lies of that video. The distortion so. Many websites will only quote Sura 2:191 but never the quote preceding it, 2:190 which lays down the military laws of not attacking first. These liars have a filthy agenda and they are as bad as terrorists as they try to mislead people about the beautiful, glorious Quran.

        HERE IS THE PROOF OF THEIR ABOMINABLE LIES against God and the Holy Quran. Read it and see for yourself just how they cleverly twist things to try and make it look like an evil religion when the Quran CLEARLY says otherwise.

        Quran Sura 2:190

        George Sale

        “And fight for the religion of GOD against those who fight against you; but transgress not by attacking them first, for GOD loveth not the transgressors.”

        Excerpt From: “The Koran (Al-Qur’an).”

        “And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice”

        Excerpt From: Muhammad. “The Koran translated by Rodwell.”

        “[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.”

        Excerpt From: Dr. Rashad Khalifa Ph.D. “Quran: The Final Testament – Authorised English Version.” Dr. Rashad Khalifa Ph.D.

        2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.”

        Excerpt From: Pickthall, Marmaduke. “The Meaning Of The Glorious Quran.”

      • DNA

        So here the Quran clearly lays down the law of not attacking first and haters of Islam only quote the passages that do not include that law and then state Islam is a religion of violence and aggression.

        Terrorists too are most likely not shown Sura 2:190 but only Sura 2:191 and all the others that say to kill.

        You take out Sura 2:190 and it makes Islam look bad but you put it in its proper context and those who look bad are the terrorists and liars on websites only quoting Sura 2:191.

        I know a so called Jihad expert who always quotes Sura 2:191 (go out and kill wherever you find them) but ALWAYS leaves out the sura before it Sura 2:190 which clearly orders Muslims only to go out and kill those who attack them FIRST.

        So Islam haters are trying to turn ignorant people against the Quran and Islam and Muhammad and the fact that they deceive to try to get you to believe them destroys all their credibility as they are pure liars.

        Half of these are Christian Ministers who want to see Islam defeated.

        I am not a Muslim and have no vested interest except upholding the truth. I’m not going to blindly follow deceives and liars who preach hatred against the east or the west. All men are one family and that’s how it’s going to be.

        All religions. All races and people are GOOD except for a few people who have sick minds and distorted souls.

        Let’s love all humanity and not get tricked into siding against a race or a faith. There is only one humanity and we are it. Let’s live in peace as brothers and sisters.

      • DNA

        Who were the unbelievers? At that time in history we are speaking not about blue collar workers but savage warmongers who violently attacked Muhammad and His followers unprovoked and waged war against them to destroy them.

        That period of history if a first born was a girl it was buried alive in the desert sand.

        A period of serial rapists and killers who would attack innocent women and children and sell them as slaves. We are speaking of a time when ruthless barbarians roamed the deserts. Muhammad had the job of defending and protecting the innocent and bringing law and order to a barbaric land.

        Without a true knowledge of the history that time it’s quite easy to take passages and misuse them without really knowing what the definition of an unbeliever was at that time.

        Muhammad always told His followers that if they were treated fairly to treat others fairly but if attacked then to retaliate only after being attacked. Sura 2:190 For 13 years Muhammad and His followers were attacked. Only after 13 years did He agree to allow self defense as He tried to make pacts of peace with those who wanted to destroy Him and Islam but they continually made pacts then betrayed them and attacked.

        This is the truth.

        I’m a Baha’i. In Iran we have been persecuted for over 160 years. But we know more than anyone that it’s the Mullas that are doing the mischief and not the Quran or Muhammad.

        There has been no more persecuted group on this planet than the Baha’is. Yet we are well aware of the source of the mischief and it’s not the Quran or Muhammad but evil Mullas who are promoting violence.

        Behind all these groups there is an evil manipulator and people should be attacking cowards like this not the Quran or Prophet Muhammad.

      • Philip Schroeder
      • DNA

        When you interpret the Quran you must not make the mistake of interpreting it according to our current definitions. For instance the term ‘unbeliever’ at that time were people who buried their first born alive in the sand if it were a girl. You have to take into account that unbeliever was not referring to our current office worker but brutal murderous thugs instead so Muhammad had every right to treat people like that harshly as they were committing human atrocities and crimes against humanity as we would understand it now.

        When you read the Quran you have to take yourself back to the times and conditions and the nature of the people of that age not modern day New York.

      • EtoculusDei

        I interpret the Quran based on the fruits I see represented in the actions of it’s followers. I’m seeing a lot of rotten fruit coming out of Islam these days.

      • DNA

        So you judge Islam not by the peaceful 1.6 billion Muslims but by the small number of terrorist imposters who grab news headlines? The large majority of Muslims are peaceful, good people and you don’t see that?
        These terrorist groups no more represent Islam than the Klu Klux Klan do white people.

        Muslims are a beautiful people with a rich culture and it was Muhammad Who introduced Nationhood to humanity by creating the first constitution. Islam, if you look at its contribution to humanity especially the Dark Ages you will find we wouldn’t have half the sciences we have now. Algebra, soap and universities are things Islam gave to humanity.

        Christianity had its Inquisition and Holy Wars too where beheadings and burnings at the stake took place. Does that mean Christ and the Bible were false because Christ’s followers did those things? The atom bomb was dropped by a Christian nation so they are not judged by their fruits also? The followers of each religion are not a true judge of the authenticity of that religion. There are two kinds of followers. Those who hear and obey and those who disobey. Both Muslims and Christians who disobey their Holy Book are believers in name only not true believers and not truly representative of their respective Faiths.

        Everything Christ and Muhammad taught was pure goodness and the large majority of Their followers are good, upstanding, virtuous people.

      • EtoculusDei

        Mohamed taught much that could NOT be called good by anyone’s definition. Forced marriage and child brides are two that come to mind. In all of the “Spanish” (as opposed to Christian) Inquisition there were not 4000 victims over 300 years. There have been 25,609 deadly Islamic Terror attacks since 9/11. I don’t see many peace loving Muslims. Just people like you making excuses for their murder and mahem.

        THIS is from just last week:
        Weekly Jihad Report
        Apr 04- Apr 10
        Jihad Attacks: 57
        Allah Akbars*: 4
        Dead Bodies: 721
        Critically Injured: 440

        Not a bad showing for the religion of peace.

      • DNA

        IF Muhammad was from God then you’re view of things are wrong because a Prophet is godly and morally perfect like Christ was. It’s only because you don’t accept Muhammad as a Prophet that you say those things but I accept Muhammad as a Prophet of God therefore I know these accusations are false as He was morally perfect and made no errors of judgement,with regards to children or fighting.

        You can’t judge God and His Prophets by mans standards. God is eternal immortal and created the universe. How can we even pretend to know more than God by judging His Prophets and Their actions thousands of years later muddied by prejudiced people and misrepresented by hypocritical terrorists masquerading as Muslims when they are not even obeying their Quran.

        All religions hold a Promise. A future Christ or Buddha or the Day of Judgement when God Himself will appear. All these things indicate that at a time when godlessness has encompassed the world and the worlds religions have fallen into decay a new Revelation will be given to man. A new Way. A new blueprint for future civilisation.

        Baha’u’llah is that Promised One and He has come to unite mankind. To unite the religions and races and end wars and hatred and discrimination.

        He was persecuted by the Muslim authorities and Baha’is are still persecuted in Iran. But what’s most needed now is for all people and races and nations and sexes is to accept their equality. No one race or Faith is superior to another. This idea of superiority is destroying peace and goodwill and only acceptance of all humanity as one family can ever succeed in establishing peace and harmony. We are working to build a prejudice free world. One free from hatred. We are all human beings whatever label we name ourselves. Terrorists have to be destroyed but peaceful people must be treated with respect.

        I fully agree with you that terrorists are evil people. But we don’t hate all humanity for it. We don’t want to give up on humanity because of one group of thugs. The only way to win against darkness is by turning on the lights. So we fight war with peace and hatred with love. The good people in the world need to unite and go about creating a better world. Spreading the teaching of the equality of all mankind will do more to destroy the terrorists superior ideology than bombs and guns.

        That is what Baha’is do. Spread the ideology of humanity’s equality and oneness, that no one nation, race or Faith is superior to another. Only this kind of ideology can ever hope to destroy the terrorists.

        So we accept all good people just not those who commit atrocities. I accept all humans of whatever religion but the violent murderers I reject them. Just talking about evil doesn’t make it go away. We must spread goodness.

        When humanity’s equality gets taught in all the schools of the world then terrorism will be a thing of the past as terrorism springs from a false ideology not from the Quran. Muhammad always protected good people but condemned those who buried their daughters alive in the sand which was the tradition at the time amongst the Arabs. He fought for the right of women to be born.

      • Philip Schroeder
      • Philip Schroeder

        Moses was not perfect in any way; a prophet doesn’t have to be perfect, he only has to be better than the people, he wants to guide.

      • Dave

        Yes, those “Terrible Muslims” working from a cave, a “super cave” done it, cause my government told me so!

      • EtoculusDei

        YOUR government is comprised of the people who say they are NOT a threat. People like YOU believe every word they tell you. You accept their math….because you are too lazy to work the numbers on your own.

        People who traditionally don’t trust politicians and bother to learn things on their own……know better. They know things like this:

        2015.04.17 (Gwoza, Nigeria) – Islamists slit the throats of a dozen people.
        2015.04.17 (Karachi, Pakistan) – A 55-year-old American woman serving as vice-principal at a medical school is shot by Muslim extremists.
        2015.04.15 (Beni, DRC) – A pregnant woman is among nineteen victims murdered by the ADF-NALU, nine of whom were beheaded.
        2015.04.15 (Jerusalem, Israel) – The son of a rabbi dies after being intentionally run over by an Arab driver.
        2015.04.14 (Mahmoudiyah, Iraq) – Sunnis blow up seven people waiting in line at a Shia bakery.
        2015.04.14 (Mogadishu, Somalia) – A suicide assault on an education building leaves eighteen innocents dead.

        There was a suicide bombing in Kabul yesterday. 33 innocents dead in the name of your peace loving Mohamed. Mostly children.

        And Dave….if you had even half the intelligence you think you have…..you would have stopped being an Internet troll years ago. Your actions speak for themselves.

      • EtoculusDei

        They are but a few mentally ill extremists who know far less about their own religion than liberal Westerners, but somehow Muslim terrorists have managed to spread violence to 23 countries in only 30 days.* It is racist of course to point this out, as many have debated, despite the various races of Islam’s adherents, who also share the same races as those who practice Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, and so on. Yet somehow the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists of those same races do not feel compelled to kill civilians in the name of their religion. (Though when they fight back to defend themselves against Muslim aggressors, the finger-pointing and racist claims miraculously disappear, and it is no longer considered racist, according to the media, to demonize people of any religion other than Islam, regardless of their skin color. The victims are always Muslim, even as nearly 100 percent of all terrorism in the world is perpetrated by Muslims and Muslim terror groups.)

        The countries afflicted in the last 30 days are:

        Afghanistan, Bangladesh, CAR, Chad, DRC, Egypt, India, Iran, Iraq,Israel, Kenya, Libya, Mali, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Thailand, Tunisia, Uganda and Yemen.

        However, these are only the countries where Islamic terrorism has occurred in the last 30 days. The violence has hit closer to home in recent months, taking place in such countries as the US, France, Denmark, Australia and Canada.

        During this 30-day period from mid-March to mid-April 2015, the results of the violence are over 2000 dead and nearly as many injured, all from Muslim terrorism specifically. These are not crimes where the perpetrator just happened to be Muslim, but pure savagery committed out of Islamic piety.

        Furthermore, this data omits the terror plots foiled by law enforcement, which is met with endless obstacles from our governments that limit what counterterrorism authorities are able to accomplish because certain methods, like mosque surveillance, are now considered too intrusive and “racist.” Let them monitor churches, synagogues and temples, and no one will complain- nor are they likely to find anyone cooking up some terror plot. If there is nothing to hide, there is nothing to fear. Still, somehow authorities are able to thwart Islamic terror plots every day. But again, it is not kosher to point that out unless the words “radical” or “extremist” are incorporated into the report.

        Isn’t taking a religion to the extreme just another way of saying the adherent is very religious, “extremely” devout? Yet piousness in Islam equals violence. It is a religion which commands followers tokill the unbelievers, to fight for Allah, to cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, thus making “terrorism” a natural part of the doctrine.

        These are not some vague or obscure verses. They are realized, and statistics demonstrate this. Over 25,000 Islamic terror attacks have been committed since the 9/11 attacks in 2001, and it is believed that over 270 million people have been killed by jihadists since Islam’s inception.

        Numbers don’t lie.

      • PythonGuy

        “The atom bomb was dropped by a Christian nation”

        The US is not a Christian nation. Some of the founders where Christians and held Christian beliefs, but the constitution is not written this way. Stop trying to tie Christianity to our corrupt government and crony capitalists.

      • david ramseur

        How is it possible that so many Muslims are misinterpreting and distorting Islam? Why is this a unique problem with Islam?

      • DNA

        The big mistake made in the west is people here are the same sheep you have in the east led by the ignorant and blind.

        Western media will NEVER portray Muhammad or Islam in a good light. People should not believe everything they read or the emphasis placed upon news headlines and search out the truth independently.

        You’ll be astonished at what you’ll find when you look with your own eyes and not through the hype of others.

        There is clearly a deliberate attempt in the west to portray Islam as an evil religion when the opposite is true upon investigation by an unbiased, un brainwashed mind.

        Prophet Muhammad was a Prophet of God foretold by Christ Himself in the Bible. His character was impeccable and the lies and falsities attributed to Muhammad by His enemies are just that. The hadiths, many of them were written by His enemies.

        A lot of ideas, arts, sciences and institutions the west claims are the world’s salvation came from Muhammad. Even soap was invented by a Muslim. Algebra came from Islam without which computers could never have come into existence. The reformation was Islamic driven reviving a dying civilisation.

        Christianity had its Inquisition and beheadings and burnings at the stake because of religious fanaticism so what’s different about Islam? It too is sunk in fanaticism but nothing Christianity hasn’t done first. Christianity burnt people it accused of being witches. Beheaded them too. Any different from current day Islam? Yet ask any Christian and they will say Christianity is the Faith of God yet it has a violent history with all its holy wars. So because people follow Chrisitianity and their minds have been poisoned about Muhammad and Islam they say Chrisitianity is better yet Christianity did the same things ISIS is doing today!!!!!!

        Both Christ and Muhammad were from God as was the Bible and Quran. Yet although Christ taught to love one another why were people being burned at the stake? The thing is no Holy Book teaches war not the Quran if you study it and not just blindly believe Sura 2:191 which says to go and kill without reading the verse before it which says only if attacked first.

        I have seen all Islamic opponents online quote Sura 2:191 but why don’t they quote the sura before which states clearly not to attack unless attacked first???? They rely on gooses and idiots not to check the facts out like I did and so they create hatred and prejudice against innocent people.

        All of Islam and all Muslims nor Muhammad nor the Quran are evil as being portrayed. It’s a lie and hype driven by the fanaticism of a very small group. ISIS do not constitute a 1/000/ one millionth of the population of Islam and most Mulsims are peace loving and kind good people as Muhammad taught them to be UNLESS you believe everything the papers and media try to portray about them.

      • david ramseur

        I’m no gullible idiot….I have read the Quran. Maybe you should take a second look. Do you really want me to start posting suras? It will take about ten different posts to include a sufficient amount of Islam’s depravity due to limits on the length of posts. But I already have it ready to go. All of these commands are open ended and applicable to all times and places. We can let the reader discern the truth for themselves. I’m pretty sure they know you are full of it already though.

        You are projecting on us your claims of bias and brainwashing. Only the truly brainwashed can possible defend or justify Muhammed or any of Islam.

        And btw, Islam stole all of their great innovations from the people that they conquered with the sword!

        The difference between the atrocities committed by the Roman Catholic Church and that of Islam is this: The inquisition and burnings at the stake were not supported by the Bible, they were extra-Biblical, they were not expressions of true Christianity. The atrocities carried out by real Muslims, such as those who comprise ISIS, are justified by the Quran, Hadith, and Reliance of the Traveler. The Roman Catholic Church was being disobedient to Jesus and the scriptures, ISIS is being obedient to Muhammed and their scriptures!

        Read the Bible and you will be set free from your Islamic bondage. You will see reality.

      • DNA

        Firstly I’m not a Muslim. Next, the Quran can only be understood within the historic context it was revealed. In those days Muhammad appeared amongst the Umaayid tribe who were far more barbaric than Isis. Read those times and how there were no police, laws, constitution, government, courts or prisons to be able to protect society from serial killers and rapists. Muhammad and the Quran were revealed for those times and those people not for our time.

        Islam was only meant to tame a barbaric people and to be superseded later by another religion and prophet. Muslims interpretation that Muhammad is the last Prophet is wrong. He was the last Prophet of that age but not the last prophet forever.

        Since Muslims have turned their backs on that fact their religion has degraded as it was not meant for our age thus the backwardness of their attitudes. In those days where there were no jails, laws has to be very tough to curtail criminals but today times are different and Islam is now causing problems.

        I’m only defending Islam in the context that it was for that time and place but not for our age.

        What we need now is world mindedness and universal outlooks not narrow fanaticism. Islam is dead as a spiritual force in the world I know that but once it was the glory of its age.

        Muslims and Islam has missed the boat and another Prophet appeared which they killed and tortured which is why they are suffering now in the depths of savagery with no solution.

        I accept Muhammad was a true Prophet from God and the Quran was the Word of God but for that age and now we have a new path, a new religion that will unite all, bring peace and establish harmony between people by promoting the equality and oneness of all mankind. That new religion is not Islam.

        Even Islam has a Hadith that in the future (now) Islam will be nothing but a mere name and a book with no value anymore in the world and you have observed that this is now true.

        Their fanaticism will destroy them and mankind will choose a path that unites us.

      • david ramseur

        Islamic savagery occurs because Islamic holy books still exist plain and simple. Muhammed’s more peaceful “Meccan” suras were abrogated by his more violent “Medinan” suras. The commands to instill terror in non believers, beat wives, take slaves, etc….are not bound by time or space. They are open ended and applicable to all places for all times. ISIS is following these commands in obedience! Nothing jettisons their Islamic duty to carry them out! Nothing inside of Islam anyway. And, yes, I know that you identify as Bahai. But you believe that Muhamed, that disgraceful and evil human being – if he ever existed, was a prophet! Why do you believe this?

      • DNA

        Ok. I’ll try my best to explain how Baha’is view things. We believe in one God. The same God the Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in. We believe that from time to time God sends Teachers to the earth to guide and assist us but only if we choose. We believe that God sent Teachers like Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Christ and Muhammad to the earth to guide us through a certain stage of our social and spiritual development. For instance Christ taught love your neighbour, Muhammad taught love your country and Baha’u’llah taught to love all mankind. They complement each other because you cannot love mankind without loving your neighbour or country but at Christ’s time for instance nations had still not been discovered so he didn’t teach love for country and so on.

        All the Holy Books of all these Teachers and Prophets prophecy a Promised One Who will come at the time of the end. The return of Christ, the Fifth Buddha, the return of Krishna. We believe that He came last century in Iran and announced Himself to be the long awaited Promised One in Baghdad.

        I never knew of or believed in Muhammad until I came to the realisation that Baha’u’llah was that Promised One foretold in the books of all the messengers. Baha’u’llah was Christ returned in the Glory of the Father.

        So when Baha’u’llah Who is the Father says Muhammad is true and impeccable of course I believe it. If Christ were to appear to you today and tell you Muhammad was true would you dispute with Christ Himself?

        So it comes down to who is Baha’u’llah? If He is Who He says He is then what He says is true beyond a doubt. Read Baha’u’llah’s Words for yourself to see if they are the Word of God or not. I believe they are. So I accept fully whatever He says.

        The Book which convinced me of the truth of Baha’u’llah was The Book of Certitude revealed in Baghdad in two days and nights. He explains how the Prophets of God have always been misunderstood and also there is a lot of Baha’i information about Muhammad which most people are unaware of that sheds a completely different light on Him than what is being said today.

        The bottom line is that the only person who can tell us the truth about God’s Prophets is another Prophet not any man. I would defend Buddha or Krishna or Christ equally as I have defended Muhammad because they are all from God and what is from God is pure and holy.

        Man pollutes and corrupts religion which is why God sends Prophets to renew the truth again. Now is the time for world peace and world unity and universal friendship and for religions to get along and people to see the whole earth as one family.

        Why should I defend Muhammad as a Baha’i when Baha’is in Iran are locked up in jails? Why should I defend the Quran and Islam when Mullas have persecuted Baha’is for over 170 years? I’ve got no reason to do that unless I’ve come across different information many haven’t through the Baha’i Faith.

        A lady once attacked Buddha and called Him many bad names you know satan and evil etc. where did she get that from? The Bible she said. I said show me where in the Bible it says Buddha is evil? Buddha appeared 500 years before Christ so Christ would have known about Buddha.

        Anyway she opened her Bible to false prophets. I asked her where was Buddha mentioned. She couldn’t show me because Buddha is not mentioned in the Bible as a false Prophet. That is the interpretation she placed on it.

        How come millions of Baha’is believe every Word of the Quran to be the Word of God yet there is not a terrorist amongst us?? Shouldn’t we be evil and slitting throats and burning people? Why are Baha’is recognised as amongst the most peaceful tolerant people on earth?? Why haven’t Baha’is become involved in uprisings against their 170 year old persecution? Why are these Quran loving, Muhammad loving Baha’is non violent?? Aren’t we supposed to be violent and warmongers according to the theory that the Quran and Muhammad taught war?? Why can we be so peaceful and still defend Muhammad so ferociously??

        So we have a peaceful, tolerant community renowned worldwide for its love for all humanity following Muhammad and the Quran. How can this be? Aren’t all followers of the Quran and Muhammad supposed to be terrorists and evil?

        Baha’u’llah is the difference. If you ever get a chance have a look at the Book of Certitude. Christ spoke of Baha’u’llah and expected His followers to turn to Him.

      • david ramseur

        So essentially, you believe in universalism – many paths to God, or pretty much religious equivalence. I will tell you that the God of the Bible is not the same as the God of Islam! The Jesus of the Bible is not the same as the Jesus of the Quran! Islam is a corruption and perversion of the true historical Jesus. Jesus of the Bible is God in the flesh who has the authority to forgive sins. Jesus in the Quran is a prophet who is lesser than Muhammed who admittedly practiced many evils!!!! Jesus in the Bible rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven making intercession for the saints. Jesus of the Quran is impotent and obscure. Jesus will come again to judge the world in righteousness according to the Bible. Jesus will come again to destroy Christians and point everybody to Muhammed and Allah according to the Quran!!!! How can you believe in such opposing religions and ideologies?

        Jesus in the Bible is sinless. Muhammed is notorious. Jesus in the Bible performed signs, wonders, and various incredible miracles. Muhammed in the Quran never did anything of the sort!

        Jesus fulfilled hundreds of messianic prophecies written over a thousand years. Muhammed said he received his revelation from an angel in a cave. Jesus in the Bible is attested to by eyewitness testimony that is rich in detail (geographically, times, dates, rulers and important people alive at the time, etc…) this makes the gospel accounts able to be cross referenced with historical discoveries. Not so with Muhammed. His life is a mystery with many vacancies.

        “How come millions of Baha’is believe every Word of the Quran to be the Word of God yet there is not a terrorist amongst us?” How come, if you believe every word as you say, do you not walk in obedience to the Quran?

        You feel you must defend Muhammed? Therefore you feel you must defend robbery, genocide, murder, torture, slavery, misogyny, supremacism, etc… all of which He taught and believed. What good is a prophet if what he says, believes, and demonstrates is not to be followed?

        Why do you place so much faith in the “book of certainty”? Has it been able to withstand any scrutiny? Why is this Baha’u’llah character not just another false prophet / false teacher leading people (including you) away?

        There is no other book like the Bible. It is unique. It was written by over 40 different authors, over 2 thousand years, across many different backdrops, yet it retains the same unified message / revelation of God. This is because it is a supernatural book. It was written by the inspiration of God in the Holy Spirit. It is a revelation of who He is. The God who created Heaven and Earth. The God who seeks out the lost. The God who saves fallen, depraved humanity because they can’t do it themselves no matter what they do. The God who actually transforms lives. The God who actually performs miracles.

        Do you really believe that Muhammed and the Quran did not teach war? I am going to follow this post up with Islamic quotes. Everyone will see how much war and hatred Islam teaches! They already can see the truth anyways by the unique fruit that is exhibited by followers of that religion.

      • david ramseur

        Quran (2:191-193) – “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing…

        but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)”

        Quran (2:244) – “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.”

        Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.”

        Quran (3:56) – “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

        Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”. This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be ‘joining companions to Allah’).

        Quran (4:74) – “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.”

        Quran (4:76) – “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…”

        Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

        Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-”

        Quran (4:104) – “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain…”

        Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”

        Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

      • david ramseur

        Quran (8:15) – “O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey’s end.”

        Quran (8:39) – “And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah”

        Quran (8:57) – “If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.”

        Quran (8:67) – “It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land…”

        Quran (8:59-60) – “And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah’s Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy.”

        Quran (8:65) – “O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight…”

        Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.”

        Quran (9:14) – “Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people.”

        Quran (9:20) – “Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah’s way are of much greater worth in Allah’s sight. These are they who are triumphant.”

        Quran (9:29) – “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

        Quran (9:30) – “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!”

        Quran (9:38-39) – “O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place.”

        Quran (9:41) – “Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew.” See also the verse that follows (9:42) – “If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them”

        Quran (9:73) – “O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.”

      • david ramseur

        Quran (9:88) – “But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.”

        Quran (9:111) – “Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.”

        Quran (9:123) – “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.”

        Quran (17:16) – “And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.”

        Quran (18:65-81) – This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with “special knowledge” who does things which don’t seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would “grieve” his parents by “disobedience and ingratitude.” He was killed so that Allah could provide them a ‘better’ son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).)

        Quran (25:52) – “Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness…”

        Quran (33:60-62) – “If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter.”

        Quran (47:3-4) – “Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,”

        Quran (47:35) – “Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: “have the upper hand”) for Allah is with you,”

        Quran (48:17) – “There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom.”

        Quran (48:29) – “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves”

        Quran (61:4) – “Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way”

        Quran (61:9): “He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist.”

        Quran (61:10-12) – “O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of ‘Adn – Eternity [‘Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success.”

        Quran (66:9) – “O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey’s end.”

      • david ramseur

        Bukhari (52:177) – Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”

        Bukhari (52:65) – The Prophet said, ‘He who fights that Allah’s Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah’s Cause.

        Bukhari (52:220) – Allah’s Apostle said… ‘I have been made victorious with terror’

        Abu Dawud (14:2526) – The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, “There is no god but Allah” and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

        Abu Dawud (14:2527) – The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

        Muslim (1:33) – the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

        Bukhari (8:387) – Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally.”

        Muslim (1:30) – “The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah.”

        Bukhari (52:73) – “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords’.”

        Bukhari (11:626) – [Muhammad said:] “I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.”

        Muslim (1:149) – “Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause…”

        Muslim (20:4645) – “…He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa’id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!”

        Muslim (20:4696) – “the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: ‘One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'”

      • david ramseur

        Muslim (19:4321-4323) – Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: “They are of them (meaning the enemy).”

        Muslim (19:4294) – “When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him… He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war… When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them… If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.”

        Bukhari 1:35 “The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed).”

        Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, “Kill any Jew who falls under your power.” Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad’s men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

        Tabari 9:69 “Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us”

        Tabari 17:187 “‘By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.’ And they returned to their former religion.” The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali

        Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: – “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

        Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: – Lest anyone think that cutting off someone’s head while screaming ‘Allah Akbar!’ is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.

        Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: – “Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah.”

        Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 – “Embrace Islam… If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship.”

      • DNA

        Baha’u’llah announced to the Christians He is the Father and warned them not to turn their backs on Him like the Jews did to Christ.

        Here is some of what Baha’u’llah says to the Christians.

        Verily, He Who is the Spirit of Truth is come to guide you unto all truth. He speaketh not as prompted by His own self, but as bidden by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.

        And again…

        Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled! This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: ‘Ye cannot bear it now.’ And when the appointed time was fulfilled and the Hour had struck, the Word shone forth above the horizon of the Will of God. Beware, O followers of the Son, that ye cast it not behind your backs. Take ye fast hold of it. Better is this for you than all that ye possess. Verily He is nigh unto them that do good. The Hour which We had concealed from the knowledge of the peoples of the earth and of the favoured angels hath come to pass. Say, verily, He hath testified of Me, and I do testify of Him. Indeed, He hath purposed no one other than Me. Unto this beareth witness every fair-minded and understanding soul.

      • david ramseur

        We are not to follow every spirit that claims the truth, we are to test the spirits according to the Word of God (The Bible). The Holy Spirit (3rd member of the trinity) has been given to those who believe in Jesus (of the Bible). He testifies to the Truth about Jesus (the 2nd member of the trinity). The Holy Spirit seals all who have been born again for salvation. All who have rejected the gospel will face justice for they have rejected God’s mercy. Any Spirit that does not testify to Jesus (of the Bible) is an unclean spirit (a demon) that works to decieve. That seeks to keep people (like yourself) from salvation and abundant eternal life.

        Do you have a Bible? Dig into it my friend. See and understand what God has done for you. What amazing plans he has for you. Look at the exclusive claims that Jesus made about himself. You have nothing to lose by doing so, but everything to gain.

      • DNA

        Say: Blessed the slumberer who is awakened by My Breeze. Blessed the lifeless one who is quickened through My reviving breaths. Blessed the eye that is solaced by gazing at My beauty. Blessed the wayfarer who directeth his steps towards the Tabernacle of My glory and majesty. Blessed the distressed one who seeketh refuge beneath the shadow of My canopy. Blessed the sore athirst who hasteneth to the soft-flowing waters of My loving-kindness. Blessed the insatiate soul who casteth away his selfish desires for love of Me and taketh his place at the banquet table which I have sent down from the heaven of divine bounty for My chosen ones. Blessed the abased one who layeth fast hold on the cord of My glory; and the needy one who entereth beneath the shadow of the Tabernacle of My wealth. Blessed the ignorant one who seeketh the fountain of My knowledge; and the heedless one who cleaveth to the cord of My remembrance. Blessed the soul that hath been raised to life through My quickening breath and hath gained admittance into My heavenly Kingdom. Blessed the man whom the sweet savours of reunion with Me have stirred and caused to draw nigh unto the Dayspring of My Revelation. Blessed the ear that hath heard and the tongue that hath borne witness and the eye that hath seen and recognized the Lord Himself, in His great glory and majesty, invested with grandeur and dominion. Blessed are they that have attained His presence. Blessed the man who hath sought enlightenment from the Day-Star of My Word. Blessed he who hath attired his head with the diadem of My love. Blessed is he who hath heard of My grief and hath arisen to aid Me among My people. Blessed is he who hath laid down his life in My path and hath borne manifold hardships for the sake of My Name. Blessed the man who, assured of My Word, hath arisen from among the dead to celebrate My praise. Blessed is he that hath been enraptured by My wondrous melodies and hath rent the veils asunder through the potency of My might. Blessed is he who hath remained faithful to My Covenant, and whom the things of the world have not kept back from attaining My Court of holiness. Blessed is the man who hath detached himself from all else but Me, hath soared in the atmosphere of My love, hath gained admittance into My Kingdom, gazed upon My realms of glory, quaffed the living waters of My bounty, hath drunk his fill from the heavenly river of My loving providence, acquainted himself with My Cause, apprehended that which I concealed within the treasury of My Words, and hath shone forth from the horizon of divine knowledge engaged in My praise and glorification. Verily, he is of Me. Upon him rest My mercy, My loving-kindness, My bounty and My glory.

        These are the Words of Baha’u’llah in a Tablet to the Christians of the world.the Lord has returned.

      • david ramseur

        How on Earth can you reconcile what we know about Islam and Muhammed with what you just wrote? Islam is evil and Muhammed was evil. This is obvious to all except those who claim that evil is good if Muhammed did / commanded it!

      • Philip Schroeder

        If the Quran was written for those ancient times, then today it should be a history book and not the foundation of a religion.

        In that case there shouldn’t be any Muslims today at all, problems solved, yay.

      • david ramseur

        Then tell me, why is it so easy for ISIS to gain so much support? Why is it so easy for Muslims all over the world to distort the true religion? How come moderates are never able to moderate Jihadis? Because Jihad is the sixth plank of Islam. Because the ruthless and evil jihadists are able to justify their atrocities by quoting the Quran.

        How come so many highly devout imams and mullahs are so extremist? It seems that the more pious and observant the Muslim becomes the more evil and violent they become! There is a direct correlation between orthodoxy and Islamic supremacism / violent jihad!

        How come all 4 of the main schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that apostates should be killed? Islam is Islam, there is no moderate Islam. Islam is as evil as it comes! Don’t follow it. Don’t follow Islam for your own sake! It does nothing for you except make you a slave. Islam literally means submission, submission down to the most minute detail. And no Muslim is assured of their salvation unless they kill and are killed in Jihad! How utterly sick and twisted is that!

      • Philip Schroeder

        Even if I don’t listen to the media but simply read the Quran and the Hadith Muhammad doesn’t come ot of that very mercyful as well.

      • Philip Schroeder

        I judge Islam by it’s religious sciptures, not by terrorists and not by peaceful ignorant people.

      • DNA

        Then read this passage at the bottom translated by the best translators. Islam haters and bigots who jump on the media bandwagon are ignorant people who are like sheep blindly believing all the media feeds about Islam when those who investigate the truth with their own eyes and minds know different.

        Let’s total the number killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, war crimes, under the guise of a ‘worthy cause’ compared to terrorism.

        Facts are western aggression caused millions of Jews to be massacred. Stalin was he a Muslim also? Thing here is over the last few centuries just how many millions of people have Muslims killed compared to their western counterparts. You can’t win this argument so don’t bother trying to isolate Islam just because the media tries to discredit it.

        If Islam with its 6 billion people weren’t peaceful by now we would have had billions dead yet it’s the west not the east which has brought about the most war crimes and casualties.

        Christians usually love taking these quotes out of context such as ‘go and kill everyone which is the sura following this one but funny how they deliberately leave this quote out. What are they afraid of that the truth will get out and expose their prejudice and bigotry?

        A person can be a murderer and still call himself a Jew or a Christian and it was to evil people that Muhammad told them to fight not Christians in general. He even told His followers that the Christians were under His personal protection.

        Get your facts right. If you read Nazi books of course you’re going to hate Jews and if you read derogatory things said about Muhammad you’ll believe that too but you appear very ignorant of the true facts concerning Muhammad and are just jumping on an Islam bashing bandwagon because its popular. Are you looking at both sides to the story like a just judge or just condemning on hearing what the media says and on your limited understanding of a Book.

        Now for this quotes….

        There are numerous translations of this verse by credible translators which clearly show the Quran States that Muslims are not to attack first.

        Quran Sura 2:190

        George Sale

        “And fight for the religion of GOD against those who fight against you; but transgress not by attacking them first, for GOD loveth not the transgressors.”

        Excerpt From: “The Koran (Al-Qur’an).”

        “And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice”

        Excerpt From: Muhammad. “The Koran translated by Rodwell.”

        “[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.”

        Excerpt From: Dr. Rashad Khalifa Ph.D. “Quran: The Final Testament – Authorised English Version.” Dr. Rashad Khalifa Ph.D.

        2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.”

        Excerpt From: Pickthall, Marmaduke. “The Meaning Of The Glorious Quran.”

      • Philip Schroeder

        What do you want all the time with 2:190? 2:191 is in defense, I don’t doubt that, now what about 9:28-30?

      • DNA

        Because it simply states that Muslims are only permitted to attack aggressors. Whether they be Jewish or Christian or believe or not is irrelevant. If they attack Muslims first then Muslims are free to respond. In the west we call it self defense.

        The misconception is that Muhammad sent out orders to kill people who wouldn’t convert to Islam which is a lie. Muhammad protected other religions under His Care and warned His followers not to harm them unless they attacked or oppressed Muslims first.

        You can take these suras out of context as much as you like but the bottom line is Muslims are forbidden to be the instigators of aggression or to harm or kill anyone unless they are first killed, harmed, oppressed or driven out of their homes.

        People need to question deeper than what they read in the Christian biased media who would do anything to discredit Islam although Christ prophesied that Muhammad would come after Him.

        Self defense in the face of hostility and aggression is perfectly justifiable.

        the Quran forbids murder and terrorism and misusing the meanings of the Quran to stir up mischief which terrorists are doing.

        But do we blame Christ for the Inquisition or the Holy Wars of the Christians where there were beheadings and burnings at the stake? Do we blame Christ for the current wave of child sexual abuse?

        Muhammad never gave any order to kill except in self defense. That time there was no government or law in Arabiia. No courts, no police, no prisons to protect society. Murderers and rapists roamed the lands. Muhammad made laws that people could not kill or oppress others or rape etc and if they did so they had to be stopped.

        Jews and Christians who never harmed Muslims were treated with respect but anyone who killed, raped oppressed or sided with those who tried to ethnic cleanse Muslims were given justice. Christ would have done the same.

        The tax was a proof of sincerity. What’s to say a person will not just say they mean no harm than infiltrate the community and betray them as was the case so often if you know Islamic history. In return their lives and properties were protected but if they secretly betrayed the Muslims and brought enemies to their doorstep then no mercy was shown.

        Muhammad was fighting for the rights of an oppressed people to have their own faith but were persecuted and killed because they believed in only one God and not the 360 gods of that time.

        A terrible injustice is being committed towards 6 billion Muslims by Christian western media. They are peaceful loving people not what the press shows you but they are like you and me and have no ill intentions yet a few fanatics and western hatred of Islam has led to try and create a picture of Islam that is totally false.

        Unless you are a really, really fair and unbiased person you will get trapped by this western rouse to discredit Muhammad and Islam. I am a westerner but see the lie very clearly. I hope one day you can see it too.

      • Philip Schroeder

        But you have to take into account, that the Quran is the word of Allah who is all knowing and all wise, no?

        Was he all knowing and all wise, why didn’t he realize, that we would discuss the teachings of the Quran later and that his teachings could be misinterpreted, he should have known and made it clear right from the start.

      • david ramseur

        Allah refers to himself as the greatest of decievers in the Quran. Very very different from the God of the Bible who is incapable of acting against his morally perfect nature. God doesn’t change and can’t lie but allah certaintly has no problem with it!

      • Philip Schroeder

        Why don’t they write in the Quran what is ment by unbeliever then; since Allah is over all things competent, he must have known, that we would later misinterpret it like that, why not make it clear in the first place?

      • Susan

        Most are moderate? Where are you getting such incorrect information? A 2013 face-to-face survey of 9,000 Muslim in 11 countries shows that only 57% unequivocally condemn al-queda and only 51% condemn the Taliban. Shocking isn’t it?

        Not to mention what has already been stated above regarding women, homosexuals, etc.

        A man in Saudi Arabia was just sentenced to 10 years in prison and 1,000 brutal lashes. And for what? Not believing in their brutal form of Islam and writing about progressive beliefs such as allowing freedom of religion.

        That is who you are defending. They are not a fringe movement like Westboro Baptist Church. They are the mainstream and it’s time you face it.

      • wawoo

        Interesting that much of what you cite re women, homosexuals and other social issues is true of conservative Christians in the US and actually anywhere in the world.
        And many conservatives in the US when polled think the South should hav e prevailed in the Civil War.
        So read what I wrote, “Most Moslems are moderate in their dailey lives.” An objectively true statement.

      • Susan

        Do you know what is even more interesting regarding your comparison? Three things:

        1. The world is not afraid of death at the hand of those fundie Christians. I wonder why not? Oh right…they are not killing people. And please don’t try to tell me that the world really IS living in fear of them because of the 1,000 year old Crusades. No one is afraid of fundie Christians. Period.

        2. I bet that you have no problem criticizing fundie Christians (as you shouldn’t)…I bet you NEVER make comments to defend any Christians yet you do when it comes to Islam.

        3. Just because ALL Muslims are not supporters of terrorism (and they are NOT) doesn’t erase the fact that by their own admission, HALF DO SUPPORT IT.

        It’s time to discuss facts otherwise we will NEVER solve this problem. And the problem is that radical Islam is out of control and growing.

      • wawoo

        Wrong.
        I am of the opinion the world would be a better place with the Abrahamic religions in the rearview mirror of history.
        All of them.
        That currently Islam does have more issues is relevant but not decisive as to the overall merits of any of them.

      • Susan

        I am of the same opinion regarding religions. That opinion doesn’t make my response wrong. In fact, you later comment agrees that I’m right. It’s not debatable anyway, reality shows that of course I am right. The two religions, in 2015 are not equally dangerous. Silly.

      • DNA

        The seed if Abraham was prophesied to inherit earth. Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all Abrahamic religions.

        But they were meant for a time and all foretold another Prophet to come for a later age. The Quran speaks of two Prophets to appear simultaneously when it speaks about two trumpet blasts actually being one. Sura 39:68

        This verse refers to the Prophets the Bab and Baha’u’llah Who are the Prophets of this age and Who have come with teachings for this age.

      • Philip Schroeder

        Stuff is not wrong only because you have an opinion, maybe try it with facts for a change.

      • Philip Schroeder

        No, the problem is, that it is not possible to disprove that terrorists are acting wrong using the Quran, as for instance it says

        http://quran.com/4/95

      • david ramseur

        Radical Islam is redundant, more like orthodox Islam. The reason Christianity and Islam are night and day is because the Bible and the Quran are night and day! Jesus and Mo are night and day! Fundamental doctrines of the two faiths are night and day!

        Defenders of Islam will inevitably draw the religious equivalency card. But they really do not do any real objective comparative research!

      • Susan

        I don’t know how you are coming up with “night and day” when they are the same things. The only difference is that the culture of most Christians are ones that have evolved to reject most of what the Bible says.

      • david ramseur

        The two separate religions have completely opposite views of who God is. They have completely opposite teachings on how non believers should be treated. They have completely different views on how to respond to enemies. They have completely different views on how one inherits eternal life. They have completely different examples of virtue and righteousness exhibited by their leaders (Jesus and Mo). They have completely different predictions for the future. They have completely different views on the separation between Church and State.

        You are just bloviating that the religions are the same. You should do some actual comparative research. They are separate and distinct religions, world-views, and ideologies. Night and Day! They have led to the emergence of two different worlds (the West and the Middle East).

        Muslims claim that Allah is the same as the God of the Bible. And then they go and murder Christians in droves! Why is that? Islam says that Allah is the greatest of deceivers. Christianity gives that title to Satan. Islam says that Allah can do anything he wants good or evil. Christianity holds that God’s nature is morally perfect and that He can’t act against it, He can’t tell a lie.

        The more a Christian understands scripture and lives his life by it, the more Christ like he becomes. The more a Muslim understands their scriptures and lives their life by it, the more like Muhammed they become. Pure Christianity / orthodox Christianity / fundamentalist Christianity produces saints, people who are sanctified and transformed by the power of God in His Word. Pure Islam / orthodox Islam / fundamentalist Islam produces terrorists, people who submit entirely to the dictates of Islam and who commit unspeakable evils!

      • Philip Schroeder

        The bible doesn’t demand violence from it’s followers anymore than a Stephen King book does.

      • Philip Schroeder

        The crusades where a reaction to the conquering of Jerusalem and wide parts of Europe by the Muslims.

      • G-Man Nicholl

        Talk about a paradigm leap and a total breach with reality! You are using stereotypes against those whom you accuse of using stereotypes.

      • wawoo

        If it is fact based , it is an appropiate stereotpe.
        Stereotypes are mental shorthand and often there is more than a grain of truth to them.
        Still better to ask questions and get into the weeds a bit to see what is fact based and what is not.
        Which is what I did.

      • wri7913

        Your discussion of Conservatives and what you think they believe is a misdirection. Stay on Topic my friend. We are discussing Islam and its bad fruits. If you want to discuss Conservatives, go to a more appropriate post. I disagree with you in this argument but I won’t waste my time arguing with you about it here.

      • DNA

        1.6 billion Muslims are moderate. Count the actual number of those involved in atrocities and you’ll find its in the tens of thousands not millions and accounts for not even a percent of Muslims worldwide.

        Muslims are people like you and I. Demonising people makes us look small and is a shameful practice especially when we pride ourselves on justice and human rights.

        Let’s not condemn an entire population for a few of its criminal elements clearly acting against their beliefs.

      • david ramseur

        Correction, the criminal elements are following Islam’s clear and unambiguous teachings! The others don’t really believe, are afraid of openly apostacising, or cannot follow the Quran because their conscience won’t let them.

      • Philip Schroeder

        But all Muslims are following the teachings of the Quran, or would you disagree concerning that as well?

      • wri7913

        You need to make a distinction between Muslims and Islam. Islam is bad, its fruits are bad and the whole system cannot be reformed. The “Reformation” of Islam is being seen in ISIS and ISIL type groups. This is not the route the Western world wants Islam to go but we have no control over this. Muslims on the other hand, might be nice people because they don’t follow Islam all that closely and those who do seem to be the ones killing people and joining jIhad. I would think this should clue you people in a little bit about what Islam TRULY is and work to protect yourselves from it.

      • Philip Schroeder

        Muslims are people that support Islam, if they really were nice people, they wouldn’t do so.

      • DNA

        Exactly. If all 1.6 billion Muslims were radical then we would have had WWIII by now and we’d all be speaking Arabic.

        It’s western nonsense when they propagate first page slaughters as ‘Islamic’. You can bet that a lot of this focus on creating a bad image of Islam has Christian clergy behind it.

        I love all 1.6 billion Muslims, proclaim them all my human brothers and sisters and see them as part of my human family and I’m NOT a Muslim.

        What about the west? Hiroshima? The Holocaust? WW1 and WW2?? We are squeeky clean and self righteous aren’t we? So we haven’t committed any sins to go around condemning Islam?? I’d like to see a list of the war crimes committed by the west and compare them with Islam. I think you’ll find the west’s list a lot longer!!!!

        The Crusades? The Papal Wars? The Inquisition? Burning at the stake and beheadings thrown in. We had our period of trying to find our identity in a new age and now Muslims are having that same struggle and some are trying to revive the past. Let’s not condemn 1.6 billion Muslims for what a small handful are doing magnified to the millionth degree by a press only too eager to discredit Prophet Muhammad and the Quran. Let’s not stoop to the press’s level of shamelessness.

        1.6 billion Muslims are GOOD and OUR HUMAN FAMILY. Let’s not ostracise them like the press does.

      • Htimez2
      • wawoo

        You certainly seem to be constipated yourself.

      • Htimez2
      • Dajjal

        Read this and reconsider the issue. Reform is impossible. Renovation is predicted; happened once.
        https://www.scribd.com/doc/252004497/Reform-Reform-Islam-Islam

      • DatBus

        Sorry Slev, you had me until that you tried to implicate America’s wars as somehow being at fault. They are not. We’d have never even gone there had 3000 Americans not been slaughtered on 9/11. Spare us the guilty white liberal crap, the USA didn’t invent Islam OR Islamic extremism. In FACT it invented Secularism – something that Islam needs a good dose of.

      • nemesis_1

        “The problem is that these religious realities fly against the political realities of the war on terror. . . ”

        This is complete BULLSHIT. If there were enough impetus WITHIN Islamic culture, it would liberalize REGARDLESS of any outside influences.

        I simply CANNOT STAND those who insist on blaming problems within Islam on the west.

        One CANNOT stand on a street corner in a country ruled by political Islam, and proclaim loudly and clearly that not everything in the Quran, the Hadiths or the Sunnah is right.

        THAT is the problem . . . you IDIOT.

      • Patti York

        There is no moderate version of islam. The reason for this is because of islamic law, which forbids any reinterpretation or reformation. Under islamic law, any attempt to do these things is a crime punishable by death. For the west to keep perpetuating this myth ( and believe me it is a western construct), is putting muslim people at an extraordinarily high risk. Islamic scholars validate all of this.

    • John Michael Hutton

      YOu mean christianity is different than what it was 100 years ago. They were still murdering people that didn’t follow the teachings of the people of power with impunity. Except they weren’t invading Muslim nations, they were doing this to their own people.

      • John Michael Hutton

        I do seem to remember blacks being murdered by groups that used religion to cover their heinous crimes. And that was just a few weeks ago in St. Louis.
        Religious Christian extremists were also responsible for the Muir building barbarism, the bombing of abortion clinics and the murdering of doctors that served women who wanted an abortion which by the way is legal and the law of the land for a reason. So spare me the bullshit of comparing Christianity as a social light when compared to Islam. They are equally bad.

      • DatBus

        Suggesting that Islam and Christianity are “equally bad” in 2015 is remarkably naive. And the example you gave is hardly an equivalency argument. Christianity has evolved within secular nations for a few hundred years. That has an enormous impact on culture. The Westboro Baptist Church spews hatred, but you won’t see them cutting anyone’s head off. That’s the difference between Western society and the religious autocracies of the Middle East. Not only is the deeprooted sexism, homophobia and violence allowed, it is often encouraged by LAW. Secularism, the separation of church and state, democratic principles, the freedom of speech, rule of law, presumption of innocence, trial by a jury of peers – these principles were no small feats for Human Society. My fellow Liberals should know better than anyone to SPEAK UP for them.

      • Evan Brandvold

        Oh please equally bad? Not even close. Yes there are a few batshit crazy’ that call themselves Christian but there are MILLIONS of radical Muslims. Christianity is about love , turn the other cheek etc. It teaches to plant the seed of faith and pray it takes root. Islam teaches killing nonbelievers. Convert or die. True christians will speak out against and condemn against the crazy ones. Muslims dont. The reason people can bash christians is because we don’t cut off the heads of those that do like the Muslims. You’re a fucking idiot if you think they’re even close

      • slev09

        Every religion is about love and turning the other cheek. The “golden rule” is codified within all 3 of the Abrahamic religions.

        Islam doesn’t teach the killing of non-believers, and no Muslims practice “convert or die” just like Christians haven’t since they did the same thing in the Americas.

        Also, what Muslims are saying “convert or die” or cutting off heads in Indonesia? You realize that less than 20% of the world’s Muslims live in the Middle East/North Africa? Start looking at some other Muslim majority countries and you’ll see some big differences in many,

      • ExJAG

        You plainly have not read the complete words of Islam.

      • Richard Boyd

        In the last ten years that have been more that 15 terrorist attacks in Indonesian countries, killing more than 100 people and injuring thousands. All of them have been claimed by radical Islamic groups.

      • kevin irving

        there is a verse in the Quran,” do not let an idolator live.”

        Mohammand encouraged his followers to increase their dominions for Islam in a violent way, in
        areas that they conquered idolators were offered a choice, convert or die,
        people of the book, Christians and Jews, were sometimes spared if they paid a special tax, and sometimes killed, Christian and jewish women and children were often sold into slavery or put in harems

      • Dajjal

        In which Surah & ayat do you discover the ‘golden rule” in the Qur’an?

        Have you read Surah At-Taubah 9.5? What is the meaning of “kill them wherever you find them”?

        What is the meaning of “Destruction of the sword is incurred by infidels although they be not the first aggressors.”? (Hedaya, vol. 5, pg. 141)

        What is the meaning of “disbelief is an evil that must be removed from the world by death or Islam”? (Hedaya vol. 2, pg. 216 )

        What is the meaning of the last sentence of Reliance of the Traveller Book o9.9?

      • wri7913

        Haven’t read the Koran eh? It’s pretty obvious.

      • Philip Schroeder

        Really?
        Islam says, that Nonmuslims that Muslims don’t have a treaty with are worth less than Muslims with which they are at war, plus if you want to fight someone, you don’t have to investigate if they are malevolent towards you, but only if they are Muslims or not

        http://quran.com/4/92-94

        Well, and I posted that one before, it is an open call to fight Nonmuslims, where fight is qatilu, which comes from the word stem q-t-l meaning fight to kill (in case you want to argue, it could be an inner struggle)

        http://quran.com/9/28-30

        http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=qtl

        http://arabic.desert-sky.net/g_vforms.html

      • Philip Schroeder
      • EtoculusDei

        That’s about five people so far. Last week 27 black men were killed by other black men in Detroit. Chicago was even worse.

        By comparison since Roe vs Wade (1973) there have been 4 abortionists killed In the US. On the other hand Dr. Gosnel was accused of killing hundreds of infants and two patients.

        Should we use the the same logic you used against black culture??

        Murder is murder. You don’t use numbers to reduce the complicity of the perpetrators nor should you use them to diminish their guilt.

        You applied a great tactic for deflection…but it actually said nothing about the topic we are discussing.

      • ExJAG

        Equally bad? You know, of course, that you live in a western Christian construct? That your life is the way it is because of Christianity and its enabling of free will, its elevation of the individual, its broad mandates (as opposed to minute ones), its studies of philosophy, its studies of theology, its art, its incubation of even the forces that came to heavily criticize it? If indeed you think they’re equally bad, then you must also be suggesting that western civilization would be no different today than if Charles Martel had been defeated by Muslims at Tours, or the Habsburgs had been defeated by Muslims at the gates of Vienna. Yeah. We’d be exactly the same.

        What preposterous nonsense.

      • Richard Boyd

        Equally bad? What an abjectly absurd statement. You are going to compare a few isolated incidents (which have all been roundly criticized and denounced by all Christians) with dozens of terrorist actions which have killed tens of thousands – and which continue to this very day. If you want to reject the Christian religion, feel free (although if you lived in the Middle East and wanted to reject the Muslim religion you’d get stoned) but please don’t commit intellectual suicide by claiming an equivalency between Islam and Christianity.

      • Dajjal

        In which New Testament Red Letter Edition does Jesus Christ deliver evil COMMANDMENTS functionallty equivalent to these gems of evil:
        3:151, 8:12,39,57,60,65,67, 9:5,29,38, 39,111,120,123, 33:26,27, 47:4,49:15, 59:2,13, 61:10-13; Sahih Bukhari 1.7.331 & 4.52.220 ??

      • Philip Schroeder

        I guess he is talking about, that Jesus said, he was bringing a sword; at least that is what they normally do, when arguing, that it is equally bad to the open demand to kill nonbelievers.

        While as I see it you could have ordered a sword at a weapon smith, and he could say “your sword is finished, I bring the sword” or he could as well mean that his people should fight an inner fight, which in this context is much more comprehensible after Jesus said stuff like “pull the stake out of your own eye first before you try to pull out the splinter out of your brothers eye” or “who is free from sin, throw the first stone”.

        On the other hand “Kill the disbelievers whereever you find them” doesn’t seem too prone to different interpretations.

      • Dajjal

        Mt 10:34 is about a consequence: divisive interpersonal relationships, not about waging war. Read the context. The other verses Muslims toss out are parables, not commandments.

    • Donald Sensing

      No arguing your point. But the problem is that the peaceful Muslims are being killed by ISIS, al Qaeda et. al. In the past 60 years many millions of Muslims have died at the hands of other Muslims. The Muslims whom we like to ennoble with the label “moderate” are being murdered by the non-moderates.

    • DatBus

      It’s not just about the Reformation. Suggesting that Islam and Christianity are “equally bad” in 2015 is remarkably naive. And the example you gave is hardly an equivalency argument. Christianity has evolved within secular nations for a few hundred years. That has an enormous impact on culture. The Westboro Baptist Church spews hatred, but you won’t see them cutting anyone’s head off. That’s the difference between Western society and the religious autocracies of the Middle East. Not only is the deeprooted sexism, homophobia and violence allowed, it is often encouraged by LAW. Secularism, the separation of church and state, democratic principles, the freedom of speech, rule of law, presumption of innocence, trial by a jury of peers – these principles were no small feats for Human Society. My fellow Liberals should know better than anyone to SPEAK UP for them.

      • slev09

        Where does the Qur’an, Hadith, or the Sunnah support the specific act of cutting someone’s head off? That’s not an Islamic or Muslim thing, that’s an Arab culture thing, reminiscent of previous cultural strains.

        At least you acknowledge you’re ONLY talking about the middle east and not the other 80 PERCENT of Muslims.

        Oh, and this is also historically ignorant. Many countries moved towards liberalism as an attempt to gain sovereignty from the west and “be like the west” in the wake of the Ottoman empire. They got pretty fucking disillusioned after they liberalized and secularized and went to England and France and said “can we haz our sovereingty” and then these englightened, liberal nations just started killing them.

      • DatBus

        Nice try. No cigar.

      • Dajjal

        Surah Al-Anfal 8.12. Surah Muhammad 47.4. Sahih Bukhari 4.52.280.

      • Steve

        The problem with that book is it stands as a classic for sociopathic thinking. You can pick and choose nice cozy pastoral verses from the mecca era and war like terror verses from the medina. Then, on top of that, you can be a good muslim by following both. Its the perfect monster. Hollywood are you listening?

      • Dajjal

        Bill Warner does a good job of explaining Islamic duality. Hollywood will not listen to him; thinks he is a bigot.

      • Steve

        Yes I have listened to Dr. Warner many times. He is a wonderful dedicated person and very thorough about islam in a way perhaps no one else has ever been – at least that I can find. There are many others like Robert Spencer and Pam Geller and Brigitte Gabriel of course but I especially liked the way Dr. Warner uses videos to get his points across.Hollywood of course is Hollywood. My comment was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek as in finding the perfect monster. When I was growing up it was the Alien but I can see islamism has mutated even beyond the Alien.

      • Dajjal

        Islam/Islamism is a false distinction. Global imposition of Islam is implicit in the Qur’an. Refer to 3.110 & Sahih Bukhari 6.60.80, 9.33 and 33.41 & Sahih Bukhari 4.52.65.

        If you have the courage to look the monster in the eye, visit al-quraan.net and click the letters and treaties link in the top frame. Find and read the letter to the rulers of Aqabah. The same text is included in Ibn Sa’d with a different name: Ayala for the city. It is fairly dense, some will need to re-read it and let reality sink in for a while.

      • Steve

        I saw it and i’m familiar with this “monster” that is islamism. I think we are talking about the same thing with a few adjustments here and there.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

      • PythonGuy

        “At least you acknowledge you’re ONLY talking about the middle east and not the other 80 PERCENT of Muslims”

        Oh, you mean the other 80% that practice Taqiyya, the practice of lying to people’s faces through quiet support of jihad in order to advance their goal of taking over the planet? And yes, chopping off heads comes right out of the Koran. Nice try though.

      • SOMEGUY7893 .

        Yeah, cause Indonesian and Indian people really seem to be doing that, you do realize people don’t follow it word for word right? And that the majority of them probably never even read the book themselves and only know what their parents and elders tell them about it just like most Americans and Christianity.

      • Philip Schroeder

        Not following the rules doesn’t make the rules vanish, if you don’t approve of what’s in the Quran, leave Islam, plain and simple.

      • DatBus

        Moderate Muslims are irrelevant to this conversation. Only 10 percent of German’s were Nazi’s but it doesn’t stop them from reaking havoc all over Europe and killing 6 million people.

      • Steve

        A commenter mentioned “millions of (them) around the world aren’t even doing anything”. How fitting for him to say that while his religion is hijacked by radicals but even more so remains institutionalized in 7th century backwardness as your comment discusses. This only reveals in them the ignorance of accomplice. In reality a search of the internet shows that “moderates” are often lame in that excuse based on worldwide polls showing allegiance with the radicals. That guy goes on in the typical fashion of many of those people in denial of the existing problem their culture brings to the rest of the world today. He also dredges up inaccurate comments comparing christianity to islam as if somehow they were ever in any danger of extermination by the west. The perverted immorality of this person is betrayed over and over with comments that he agrees with about “beating a woman lightly” and the old faithful jab they can’t resist about a “jew behind the rock” they have driven into them from day one to day none. Most who see the evil just leave it and get out as they know no one will ever listen to them.

    • Bram

      Incorrect.

      During the Christian Reformation, Protestants chose to follow the scriptures rather than the Pope.

      A similar movement began in the Muslim world in the 18th Century with leaders such as al-Wahhab. The problem is that the Koran and Hadith consistently preach violence – unlike the New Testament and without the inconstancies and contradictions of the OT. The more devout a Muslim, the more likely he will be violent in the protection and spread of the faith.

      • wawoo

        You are incorrect.
        The Christian Reformation was a far more complex event in practice and outcome than the way that you chracterize it.
        The extremist element is Islam, Takfiri , energed shortly after the death of Mohaammed. As did the Shi’a -Sunni schism.
        The Quran and the Haddiths are as peaceful as the Bible or as violent as the Bible depending on what parts one chooses to focus on and what particular school of interpretation one adheres to.

      • Bram

        Need some citations on pro-violence in the New Testament. Jesus knocking over some tables is all I can think of.

        They deleted my last reply with links to some of the endless calls for violence in the Koran and Hadith.

      • Philip Schroeder

        You forget that Jesus came to bring a sword (which makes him a weapon smith or something like that?)

      • Dajjal

        Do you have a clue what Moe said and did? He said that he was “raised for Jihad and not for tillage”. He said that his provision was under the shade of his spear, meaning that he earned his living with it. He said that Allah made him “wealthy through conquests”. He said that he was “commanded to fight with men until” they become Muslims.

        Go to Amazon and buy a copy of “The Life of Muhammad” translated by Guillaume. Read it and think about what you learn from it. For important quotes and links to source texts, search for my blog post: “What’s Wrong With Islam & Muslims?”.

      • Philip Schroeder

        Or you could just read this, as I have done

        https://archive.org/details/TheLifeOfMohammedGuillaume

      • Dajjal

        860 pages, some of them very interesting. Ibn Kathir has a four volume set based on it with additions from other sources and his tafsir.

      • Jim Fox

        (Quran 8:67)

        “Allah said,
        ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered
        enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of
        this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But
        Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'”

        Now quote us an equivalent bible verse- God personally ordering his prophet to GENOCIDE…

      • redwhiteandtrue

        Joshua 8:1-21 And the Lord said to Joshua, “Do not fear and do not be dismayed. Take all the fighting men with you, and arise, go up to Ai. See, I have given into your hand the king of Ai, and his people, his city, and his land. 2 And you shall do to Ai and its king as you did to Jericho and its king. Only its spoil and its livestock you shall take as plunder for yourselves. Lay an ambush against the city, behind it.”

        Joshua 8:21-26
        And when Joshua and all Israel saw that the ambush had captured the city, and that the smoke of the city went up, then they turned back and struck down the men of Ai. 22 And the others came out from the city against them, so they were in the midst of Israel, some on this side, and some on that side. And Israel struck them down, until there was left none that survived or escaped. 23 But the king of Ai they took alive, and brought him near to Joshua.24 When Israel had finished killing all the inhabitants of Ai in the open wilderness where they pursued them, and all of them to the very last had fallen by the edge of the sword, all Israel returned to Ai and struck it down with the edge of the sword. 25 And all who fell that day, both men and women, were 12,000, all the people of Ai. 26 But Joshua did not draw back his hand with which he stretched out the javelin until he had devoted all the inhabitants of Ai to destruction.”

        Sorry man… I’m a lifelong Christian, and part of that means being honest about our Book.

      • Jim Fox

        I am an atheist. Relevance? I am exposing Islam; quoting the bible is mere deflection.

      • redwhiteandtrue

        Relevance? Isn’t this exactly what you asked for? Here, let me refresh you.

        “Now quote us an equivalent bible verse- God personally ordering his prophet to GENOCIDE…”

        Based on the way you spoke and capitalized the name of God, I assumed you were a Christian. Thanks for clearing that up.

      • Jim Fox

        Its good to hear a Christian being honest and knowledgable about the Bible, plaudits to him.
        Think about where Mo got his ideas for the new ‘religion’… Bible and Torah; some verses copied word for word. Quoting the Bible to criticise Islam is ridiculous, even though Islam is infinitely more dangerous. Mohammad was a complete plagiarist.

      • Philip Schroeder

        Plus Mohammad didn’t understand many parts of the bible at all.

        http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/quran_trinity.htm

        I wonder why Allah wouldn’t have explained it to him,
        or if the Quran is just Allahs word and not made up by Mohammad, why he didn’t know himself how the Christians worship him.

        I would expect that from one who is over all things competent.

      • david ramseur

        This is specific to Ai, specific to one attack, and specific to one group of people. It is specific to place, time, and people group. The Quran quoted above is open ended and applicable to ALL enemies of Islam (all non Muslims) for all time. Muslims can obey that command while Christians cannot command this historical account today. The religions are night and day. And Islam is unique in calling for violence against non believers. Islam is terribly evil in literally every way it governs life!

      • SOMEGUY7893 .

        Still preaches to kill people, god literally condemned people to death for no reason other than wanting the Israelites to have their land.

      • david ramseur

        That, and the fact that those people burned their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to the demon Molech! The people that the Israelites drove out were exceedingly wicked people. It was a one time judgment on that people. This is light-years away from murdering infidels being enshrined as a tenet of following Allah!
        God had already promised Israel the land hundreds of years before He gave it to them. And God was preserving His people as separate and distinctly His own. He was preparing the way for the Jewish Messiah to be born in Bethlehem later on.

      • Philip Schroeder

        But the bible doesn’t demand me to kill people, it tells about people who have killed others.

        And I can also explain, why that stories about killing those people are important.

        It is said in the genesis, that god made the human as an image.of himself.

        Notice that while the god of the Quran is said to be perfect (over all things competent), the god of the bible is only allmighty; which means he can do whatever he wants, it doesn’t mean, that his experience of what is right and wrong is mastered as well.

        God makes a lot of errors in the bible, first of all, when he creates the world after each of the 7 days of creation, he looks at what he has done, and sees, that it is good.

        Why should somebody who knows in advance, that everything, that he does is perfect, look at his creation to judge what he has done.

        Then for instance, concerning the story of Noah.
        God is disappointed in the outcome of his creation,
        if he was all knowing, why would he create something and be disappointed over it later on?

        He then decides to drown all humans in a flood, but is unsure, if it is really the right way to handle the situation, so that he lets Noah create the arche and get 2 of every animal on it.

        In the whole Moses story, god is an angry god who pnishes his enemies and finally with Jesus he learns love and kindness.

        To sum it up, god acts as a child in the beginning, an allmighty child, but still a child.

        He has any kind of feelings that humans have too, like sadness, envy, anger, disappointment, but he learns in a long process to transform his reactions to kindness and mercy.

        The bible shows a way to the humans to reach that goal as well, just because we all have cases of the feelings that god expressed throughout his evolution as well, and we can learn how to handle them, to become kind and mercyful.

        The problem with the Quran is, that Allah is over all things competent, and since humans are not, there is no way, a human could learn from Allahs behaviour.

        That is why it is called Islam, which means submission, since humans are unable to reach the perfection of their god Allah, they are bound to follow his rules, while they won’t learn a thing from them in most cases.

      • SOMEGUY7893 .

        Allah is the Arabic word for god, not his name.

      • Philip Schroeder

        But we cannot call it good, unless we would confuse it with the Jewish/Christian god, so I say Allah.

      • Philip Schroeder

        But you don’t seem to understand the difference between

        “Oh you believers, kill the nonbelievers”

        and

        “Some people killed some other people”

        The bible tells stories about people who where violent, while the Quran demands violence from his followers.

        That are completely different pair of shoes.

        Don’t you really see the difference?

        If not you must be thinking that violence in the news is demanding violence from people watching the stuff as well.

      • SOMEGUY7893 .

        The Quran forbids killing women, children and priests of any religion if they’re land is conquered by Muslims, people use region for their own benefit, the only clash between Christianity and Islam is a false one you erect yourself by cherry picking examples from both to make your favorite look better and the other worse. Allmighty is no different from omnipotent unless you purposely misunderstand it’s meaning.

      • Philip Schroeder

        So the Quran doesn’t forbid killing men?

      • nemesis_1

        “The Quran forbids killing women, children and priests of any religion if they’re land is conquered by Muslims . . . ”

        Correct. If people ‘submit’ to Islam, either by converting or living as dhimmis, the Quran says not to kill them. Which means that Islam is TOTALLY AWESOME!!

        Fucking moron.

      • nemesis_1

        Good point.

      • Philip Schroeder

        God really commanded Moses to slaughter whole countrysides, finding that is no hard task

        https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%207&version=NIV

        The point here is, that this was told to Moses by god, to do it in the Land of Israel and to drive out explicitely named people, it doesn’t say, that any Jew or Christian in the world has to slaughter anyone who disobeyes the teachings of their god.

      • mike

        so what madhab do you follow? I don’t think you are using the word takfir correctly. that is one muslim declaring another an apostate, has nothing to do with ‘extremism’. it’s more like the wahhabist declaring the sufi heretics and takfir for praying at shines of saints.

      • PythonGuy

        “The problem is that the Koran and Hadith consistently preach violence”

        It also preaches that lying to non-believer’s faces in order to spread Islam. There is no such thing as a “peaceful muslim”.

      • Steve

        Yes that is an excellent point and one I find often filled with misconceptions by muslims when they accuse christianity as being similar in committing atrocities like islam based on devoutness to religion. You are entirely correct to imply that the more devout the christian the less likely they would ever cause harm where as it is the complete opposite with islam as traditionally followed. In addition the argument often goes that christianity, according to islam, is as violent using the old testament to support their claim and not the new testament – which was when, as we know, christianity came into being.

    • The Snail

      The reformation was brought about by Christians – particularly those like Martin Luther, Zwingli, Calvin etc. realizing that what the Church was teaching, was far removed from what was taught by Jesus and other New Testament writers. They therefore wanted to Reform Christianity so it reflected the teaching in the New Testament. They were greatly helped by the invention of the printing press which allowed them to produce cheap copies of the Bible in the mother tongue of the readers. Before that the Bible was in Latin and each copy was made by a scribe. Few people had a very good command of Latin so the populace relied on what the Church said. The translation was not without problems – William Tyndale was burnt at the stake for translating then circulating Bibles in English. What readers of these translated bibles discovered was that Jesus taught that “Love of God and one’s neighbor, including one’s enemies – constituted the whole Law and Prophets” and “That reconciliation with the almighty was by repentance faith and not by endless penances” and that Jesus .endorsed a division between Christianity and the state. “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s”

      Islam progressed in a similar fashion with modification of what was taught and enacted by the founder of the religion – their Prophet.

      A call for a return to unadulterated Islam was made by Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab (b 1703 – 22 June 1792) one of Islam’s first modern reformers and the Islamic ‘Reformation’ was set in motion. He regarded the existing version Islam as corrupt and with his followers – later called Wahhabis- started a movement which has resulted in what we call Islamist or Fundamentalist Islam.

      For further information please see:

      http://www.raymondibrahim.com/islam/islams-protestant-reformation/

      • wawoo

        Martin Luther and Calivin were drenched in blood. The Enlightenment was the intellectual response to that in some measure seeking there had to be a rational explanation for much of life outside of religion.

      • The Snail

        No they weren’t ” Drenched in Blood” If you think so please give references!!! Islam will never have an enlightenment because there is nothing secular allowed in Islam – Islam and the State are considered by Muslims to be synonymous. The Law is not secular it is Sharia.

      • wawoo

        Martin Luther, “On The Lies of The Jews.” Foundational, in establishing an intellectual and religious basis for violent antiSemitism and lead utimately to the Holocaust. Calvin not qite as ati Semitic but made sure Sevetus was tured , found guilty of apostsy and burned alive at the stake. Ala ISIS. And then the multitudes of wars between Protestant and Catholic regimes as well as the Puritans as heir to Calvin and the “Glrious Revolution” in England.

      • The Snail

        However they are not following the teaching of Jesus. They were doing it despite their religion.

        Muslims do it because of their religion

        From the ‘Holy Koran ‘ supposed the words of the almighty which is a copy of the book to be found in Paradise.

        “Fight those among the People of the Book who do not believe in Allah nor the Last Day, nor forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth [i.e., Islam], until they pay the jizya [tribute] with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” Koran 9:29

        “In the Muslim community, jihad is a religious duty because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and the obligation to convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force. The other religious groups did not have a universal mission, and the jihad was not a religious duty for them, save only for purposes of defense. But Islam is under obligation to gain power over other nations”.

        bin Khaldūn Al-Ḥaḍrami; May 27, 1332 CE – March 19, 1406 CE- Famous Muslim Philosopher.

        And they are trying to do that today!!! In Nigeria, Sudan, Somalia, The Phillipines, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Kenya and will try it in Europe and US soon.

      • wawoo

        They were dong it because of their religious beliefs.
        How do I know this?
        Because they said so.

    • lifeok

      Christianity has caused more death in the world than all the diseases and wars combined. Islam was the pillar of civilization until the sacking of Baghdad by the Mongols in 1258, and guess what, the Mongols were Christians orthodox introduced by the steppe poeple in Siberia and Russia. Christianity is the religion of Lucifer and I’m glad people like Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and Jerry Falwell are in Hell right now giving their god Satan fellatio for all eternity.

    • DNA

      Wonderful insight!! Times have changed and Islam has not adapted as Islam was only meant for a certain time and age where barbarians ruled and harsh laws had to be introduced to create some civil code until people progressed towards human rights and the like.

      Now is the time for universal brotherhood for the acceptance of the oneness and equality of all humanity as we are so interconnected now through technology. We need to spread the concept that we are all one race, the human race and promote tolerance and friendship between nations and religions not create suspicion, mistrust and prejudice.

      Only light can vanquish darkness, love destroy hate and peace annihilate war. We must show that it is better to be free from prejudice than to have it and that unity between people is far better than war and conflict.

      Just opposing war is not enough. We must love all people and all religions and all races and then we can have a better world.

      Baha’is believe people are born GOOD not evil or born as sinners and that we gradually, through lack of spiritual education become animalistic.

      The purpose of this life is to become virtuous. And a source of joy and goodness to others. We must help the ignorant overcome their sicknesses of hatred and warmongering by educating them that all humanity is one family.

    • mike

      you should read al-ghazali’s book, ‘the incoherence of philosophers’. bram is right. islam has reformed, backwards though, not to enlightenment but away.

    • cambrdige_unitedkingdom

      Turkey has legalised same sex couples since 1858 and again in 1923 (search lgbt turkey for wiki page and sources). Christians openly practice their faith in turkey. And the UN classes turkey as number 72 in the world in terms of gender inequality (lower number means women have more rights). Admittedly this is really poor but turkey are doing better than mexico 74 and brazil 75 (search united nations gender inequality index). But lower than iran 69. Although this stat isnt great as it only looks at birth rate, education, and jobs and not the wage gap or other aspects of equaliy / womens rights.

      • wawoo

        Ataturk wanted a secular state. Present day Turkey with Erdogan and his religiously conservative party are making Turkey an Islamic state.

  • john

    ” That change is only going to come from Muslims fighting every single day against oppressive Islamic states…”

    They won’t.

  • DF

    Sorry Allen, who named you defender of Islam? Or defender of
    anything for that matter? If you don’t think all white people are racist, then
    don’t group all Muslims together. What’s the connection? That the acts of 1, or
    100 can’t be generalized to all. There is simply nothing to defend. There is
    simply nothing else to say. It’s simply a matter of not applying standards to
    other groups that you don’t want applied to your own group. Unless of course
    your vision of your own group is myopic and narcissistic, in which case you are
    only able to see the acts of other groups rather than your own.

    • Bruce Gold

      Is it entirely off limits to compare and contrast the level of violence from each group? To add up the total Christian abortion bombings, the total radical Jewish terror attacks, and the total Islamic attacks? And if that is not off limits, is it not off limits to take note if the Islamic attacks are 100 to 1 compared to all other religious attacks combined?

      • DF

        In 1452 & 1455 Pope Nicholas V, issued papal bulls authorizing Christians to freely enslave non-Christians in perpetuity. That marked the commencement of the TransAtlantic Slave trade in which millions of African people died crossing the Atlantic in the middle passage, and ruining the lives of countless others. Do we need to discuss the Inquisition? Do we need to discuss the Christian Crusades against non-believers, namely Muslims? Do we need to discuss the treatment & attempt to annihilate the indigenous people of America? Do we need to discuss the Conquistadors? Read the Devastation of the Indies. Europe and America have a LOOOOONG history of violence in the name of religion. Your comment, however, indicates that some people, are just looking for excuses to categorize groups to hate them. That’s what Hitler did. All muslims are not fundamentalists. If you can conclude that they are, based on your logic you would necessarily have to come to a pretty negative conclusion about Europeans, Christians and American whites.

      • AB

        The key point in your prrof is the year–1452. The point is that Christianity has evolved since then.

      • DF

        In your opinion. The Christian Right is against all women’s reproductive rights AND they are against gay marriage. Furthermore, all rights in history (the right not to be perceived as a White Christian’s property) are not granted they are taken. Furthermore, it wasn’t just enslavement, it was Jim Crow. It wasn’t just Jim Crow but lynching. It wasn’t just lynching, but the unethical prison industrial complex. It isn’t just the prison industrial complex but police brutality. All orchestrated and maintained by a nation in whose monetary system says “in god we trust.” The majority of faith beleivers in this country are Christian.

      • The Snail

        In Islam the punishment for gays is death

      • Philip Schroeder

        If you want to argue with something that happened 500 years ago, I suggest that the Muslims go back to their countries and come back in 500 years, when they sorted their problems out.

    • Susan Grove

      DF – you need to go back and READ what Allen actually said.

      • DF

        I guess that’s one way to say that people whose conclusion you disagree with don’t read. Helpful.

    • Philip Schroeder

      There is a big difference between whites and Muslims, while whites are a group that the describing feature is something, that doesn’t say a thing about the peoples personalities, being Muslims says a lot about what morals the people support.

  • Donna Polles

    As someone who was raised Catholic, I have to call you on this. You don’t have to look too deep to see how some so-called Christians can be just as bas as those who hide behind and bastardize the Koran. How about abortion clinics being bombed and their doctors and nurses murdered all in the name of Jesus? Or go back further in history to the Crusades! Wanna talk about a bunch of murderous luntics? Look no further.
    Women aren’t supposed to use birth control. WTF? No divorce without the blessing of the Church (annulment). WTF? The Pope, a HUMAN MAN, can say anything he wants and it becomes the word of God? Really?!

    I hear what you’re saying in the article, but the reality is, MOST Muslims are peace loving. I don’t agree that women should wear burkas, but who am I to tell a religion what’s right or wrong?
    Muhammad Ali. Cat Stevens. When the you feel the hate bubbling up and want to process it by condemning all Muslims, just think about those two wonderful men. Let them be the face of Islam to you instead of the animals who hide behind them.

    • DatBus

      Suggesting that Islam and Christianity are “equally bad” in 2015 is
      remarkably naive. And the example you gave is hardly an equivalency argument. Christianity has evolved mostly within secular nations for a few hundred years. That has an enormous impact on culture. In the West religious extremism is tempered by law. The Westboro Baptist Church spews hatred, but you won’t see them cutting anyone’s head off. That’s the difference between Western society and the religious autocracies of the Middle East where not only is the deeprooted sexism, homophobia and violence allowed, it is often encouraged by LAW. Or course Western society doesn’t eliminate human nature, it just manages it better. The separation of church and state, democratic principles, the freedom of speech, rule of law, presumption of innocence, trial by a jury of peers – these are the principles that govern Western societies – and they were developed for a reason. My fellow Liberals should know better than anyone to SPEAK UP for them.

    • Evan Brandvold

      Ali was a racist asshole. I met him when I was a kid and was the only one he ignored and didn’t sign an autograph for because I’m white. So not the greatest example.

      • Donna Polles

        I find that very hard to believe. I know *many* people (of all colors) who’ve met him and he’s been kind and genuine with everyone. Maybe you were just being an asshole?

      • Evan Brandvold

        I was in 3rd grade, he came to my school we all stood in line to shake his hand and when it was my turn he looked at me then skipped me and went to the next kid. I was crushed, even my teacher saw it. Kinda hard for a 3rd grader to be an asshole

    • DNA

      I love people like you so, so much. People like you are the salt of the earth, the rays of the sun, the stars of the sky shedding truth everywhere that we must love not hate, seek peace not war, praise not condemn.

      The world desperately needs people like you who stand for the love of all mankind despite race, faith, nationality or gender.

      Well before Islam humanity’s history has been filled with bloodshed. How many millions died in WW1 and WW2 and nothing to do with Islam.

      Muslims are good people with a beautiful rich culture. Terrorists are imposters who betray their own Quran and Holy Book which clearly says to kill one person is to kill all mankind.

      Today the superior people are the LOVERS OF ALL HUMANITY regardless of race, nationality, religion or gender. These are the true superior people and YOU I consider to be one of them.

      I am a Baha’i and we believe that love for all humankind is the medicine for today’s age. Everyone must put aside their prejudices and love all equally as God does. Then this world can become like a paradise.

    • Philip Schroeder

      Really you want to go with the “but the crusades” argument, when we are talking about violence today and not some hundred years ago?

      Additionally the crusades where a response to the Muslims conquers of Jerusalem and wide parts of Europe inclduing the whole of Spain and parts of Greece.

      People arguing with the crusade argument always make it look, as if the crusades where unjustified, when they were just a counterstrike to the conquerings of Islam.

  • Shirley Phipps

    It seems as if their Allah is a monster. If the killers believed they were doing what is right they would not run and hide. Cowardly acts and hate crimes are their outlets for their wickedness. Why don’t they try the God of LOVE. All I have ever thought that God wants is to love God and our fellowmen. How simple is that? It is not religion. It is the practical rule to live by. All mankind needs is to live a life of freedom and kindness and make this world a better place. How can anyone think any Allah or other deities would create us to be killing and hating?.

    • Vauhxx

      Ah, as a fellow Christian I must beg to ask the question, have you read the Bible’s old testament?

      • Shirley Phipps

        I think the old testament is bad and the same mentality as the Islam ideology.

      • G. D. Smith

        Because the God of Abraham and Allah are exactly the same entity.

      • Paul Julian Gould

        And the exact same name used in both Arabic Christian bibles and Arabic Jewish liturgical texts…

        Yes, there are actually Arabs who are practice Judaism and Christianity… go figure….

      • Shirley Phipps

        I know that. I am not a Christian, or a Muslim or of any other religion I love God and that’s who I serve with love for God and my fellow men. If we all lived and practised that this world would be a better place.

      • Philip Schroeder

        Never!
        The Muslims say so, but my god is the god of Jesus, who would never send down a hate speech like the Quran, so there is no way they can be the same god.

      • G. D. Smith

        You may think that, but you’d be disagreeing with the vast majority of legitimate theological scholars … y’know, the experts on the subject.

        The God of Christians, the God of Jews and the God of Muslims are one in the same.

      • Philip Schroeder

        I have, and the old testament, especially the books of Moses, which most people quote when talking about demands of violence are for the people living in Israel at the time when Moses was the leader, for instance

        https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+20&version=NKJV

        “Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Again,
        you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘Whoever of the children of
        Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who gives any of his descendants to Molech, he shall surely be put to death.”

        This is clearly not about people today in the USA, but it is about the people who lived at the time of Moses in Israel.

        Since in the next sentences, it is not always repeated and tell the people of Israel and the strangers dwelling within” you could argue, that somehow magically the context changes to mean people in the USA today, but you won’t find that in any book, after the context is described, it won’t be described again until it changes.

  • Tieffliegender Eierbecher

    “That change is only going to come from Muslims fighting every single day against oppressive Islamic states. These people have to want, and demand, actual democracy. They have to build nations not ruled by the Quran, but by basic human decency toward everyone regardless of gender, religion or sexual orientation.”

    The problem is: They don’t want all this. Democracy, equal rights, freedom of speech and belief… This is pure western world thinking. Free yourself from that. Take a different perspective. What counts is unconditional submission to Allah, Mohammed and following the Quran – and, according to Islamic law, getting rid of anything that violates Islam, including “Harbi” people (i.e., non-Muslims) who only spread corruption.

  • Michael Long

    First of all it’s not your duty to defend Islam. Second, “they” don’t choose religious fanatics, their governments aren’t strong enough to stand up to tyrants and the majority of people hide when a Kalashnikov is pointed at their families. I’m sorry, but this article is about as full of shit as a Fox article. Shame on you. What you can say is you support people who desire peace, and to the countries spinning out of control with fear and domination… you’ll get yours, eventually.

  • Morgan

    I believe the Islamic countries are simply behind in their times. It is not religion that’s the issue, it’s the lack of forward progress. Europe used to be almost as bad, if not just as bad, as the current countries in the Middle East. The Spanish Inquisition is a prime example of some atrocities conducted by radical Christians. There is also the extremist group called Nazis that played a role in extremist Christian history as well. We can’t deny that these were Christians that had radical beliefs and ways of spreading their religion. They would persecute homosexuals, women and people of different religions (Jews and Muslims). The difference between the Christians in the past and the Muslims of today is a more progressive group knowing the inhumanity of the actions. Islam and Islamic countries are behind in their times. They DID start the religion 600 years after Christians did. Maybe they’re 600 years behind? That would put them in the 1400s, right before the Inquisition. And it’s not quite an Inquisition going on.
    Progress has allowed us to understand the cruelties of these organized religions. It’s progress that is needed in Islam. If you ever doubt that Muslims are evil, then watch the Gabriel Iglesias skit when he went to Saudi Arabia. They laugh just like us. They make jokes just like us. They are just as humane as us, but they are behind in their progress. It took 1,900 years for Christians to give women equal rights (to vote, we’re still working on other rights). It’s taking more than 2,000 years to give homosexuals any rights. And 1,700 years to give other religions more rights (in some cases more and others less). Islam is the youngest major religion in the world at less than 1,400 years old. Could they just be slower at being kind to people? Judaism (for example) had time to progress in human rights and were and are more advanced than Christians. If they were in charge of powerhouse nations, then I’m sure they would have condemned Christians and Christianity centuries ago.
    If anyone says that “Islam is a religion of violence and should no longer be followed” then remind them that Christianity was once as bad, if not worse, and it took us almost two millennia to correct it. Remind them that the Islamic countries are conservative and that progress is what will get them out of this mess. Remind them that progress is the reason why we can all vote today, without pressures from violent groups (or the government). Remind them that Islam is only 1,400 years old, and Christianity was just as bad when they were 1,400 years old.

    • Paul Julian Gould

      Minor quibble… the Sikh faith is the youngest major religious path, and is less than 500 years old. One may see that faith as just being Hindu/Islamic syncretist, but really, it’s not. And it’s young… and it resorts to violence in large groups in defense only as prescribed in the Guru Granth Sahib.

      Just saying…

    • The Snail

      But Christians did the bad things DESPITE their religion – things started to change when everybody was able to read what Christ said for themselves – only 400 years ago. But the Koran says

      “Fight those among the People of the Book [ Jews & Christians] who do not believe in Allah nor the Last Day, nor forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth [i.e., Islam], until they pay the jizya [tribute] with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” (9:29)

      Only recently has the average Muslim been able to understand their book and when they find statements as above – many will follow them.

      So the Islamic reformation which started in the late 1783 with the advent of Wahabbism tried to sweep away the more moderate Islam which had developed- by returning to the original scriptures in the Koran and Sunna. From this came movements such as Al Qaeda, Al Shabab,Taliban, Boko Haram, ISIL etc. which are blighting our world today. When these radical groups ‘meet’ moderate Muslims they accuse them of being apostates – the punishment for apostasy is death – so the moderates either turn a blind eye or join the fundamentalists. That is why so few Muslims will stand up against these radicals.

  • slev09

    “Who the hell is Saudi Arabia to condemn anyone else considering the way they treat their own citizens every single day”? Not that Saudi Arabia is a terrorist nation, but their record when it comes to basic human rights is atrocious. So, how are they an “example to set” for other Islamic states? Should we just ignore the fact that there are still laws in Saudi Arabia that punish people for being openly homosexual;”

    Who the hell are we as America to look at Saudi Arabia and criticize their record of human rights as emblematic of all Islamic nations when Saudi Arabia is kept in power by US?!?

    “. In fact, it’s growing at a rather fast pace despite our airstrikes. Then when you look at countries such as Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria they’re a complete mess. Then it seems that far more often than not, when Muslims are given a choice to select their own leaders, they often choose some degree of religious fanaticism.”

    When you look at countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan. They are a mess because WE created this mess. It’s illogical to say that these countries are a mess and this is somehow a reflection of Islam. WE, the SECULAR West went in and not only destroyed the regimes and whatever remnants of government and civil society they had, but decided it wasn’t in our best interest to build it back up.

    The other 3 are currently going through regime changes internally. But its Islam’s fault that the Arab Spring couldn’t create stable governments in 4 years in countries where authoritarian regimes ruled and destroyed civil society for decades.

    And in most cases, they actually avoid choosing fanaticism. They chose Mossadeq in Iran, but we overthrew him and they ONLY chose Khomeni because of the populist message he had and the repression of Islamic practice by the British-supported Pahlavi’s. Protip: When you suppress someone’s religion, it’s not going to make them more moderate. They also chose a moderate back in the early 2000s but abandoned him once Bush started calling them the “axis of evil”. They choose moderates all the time when they have the option. They didn’t in Egypt,they had a pretty radical Islamist and an autocrat.

    “During a discussion about this topic, I asked a liberal friend of mine to name one Islamic state where:
    Homosexuals are allowed to be openly gay.
    Women are given equal rights.
    Other religions are allowed to freely practice their faith and are not oppressed.”

    Lebanon. There, that was easy. While there are issues with sectarianism, violence, and disagreement. Their political system is set up specifically to allow free practice. Also women’s rights there is comparable to a “lesser” european country and Gays are allowed to be gay.

    This is all well and good and seems to be well-intentioned, but ignores the historical realities of the region.

  • Kenneth Browning

    Regardless of why they dobe it, christians have committed terrorist attacks in the U.S. Was it for a drawing? No. But it make it no different. Remember the bombing of the summer Olympics in Atlanta? Or outside of the U.S., Andres Breivik, who considered himself a “Christian crusader.”

    Of course liberals, like conservatives, refuse to except or acknowledge other reasons for this whole mess. They love to harp about Bush and his wars, especially the Iraq, but still won’t admit how it(and other events) contributed to the instability in the middle east.

    • G. D. Smith

      If that’s what you think, you haven’t talked to many liberals.

      • Kenneth Browning

        I follow many liberal pages and rarely see it talked about. It’s the same thing with illegal immigration. Very rarely do i find liberals discussing what’s helped cause it either.

      • Guest

        That’s because Liberals are just as stupid as Conservatives. And just as dishonest. Step outside your tribe for a minute and just listen.

    • DatBus

      Suggesting that Islam and Christianity are “equally bad” in 2015 is
      remarkably naive. And the example you gave is hardly an equivalency argument. Christianity has evolved mostly within secular nations for a few hundred years. That has an enormous impact on culture. In the West religious extremism is tempered by law. The Westboro Baptist Church spews hatred, but you won’t see them cutting anyone’s head off. That’s the difference between Western society and the religious autocracies of the Middle East where not only is the deeprooted sexism, homophobia and violence allowed, it is often encouraged by LAW. Or course Western society doesn’t eliminate human nature, it just manages it better. The separation of church and state, democratic principles, the freedom of speech, rule of law, presumption of innocence, trial by a jury of peers – these are the principles that govern Western societies – and they were developed for a reason. My fellow Liberals should know better than anyone to SPEAK UP for them.

  • SkippingDog

    I’ve been having the same internal struggle you write about. When a religion not only rejects secular authority but also uses extreme violence to quash secular thought, I must ask myself if it is incompatible with civilized modern society. The answers I’m finding disturb me, but dealing in reality is the only rational approach.

    • Kenneth Browning

      Pakistan is semi-secular. The Prime Minister of Iran attempted secularization in yhe early 50s. Unfortunately, he also had plans to nationalize their oil. The British weren’t having that and replaced him by way of a coup. Iraq was secularist, we know how that went. There’s currently 20 countries that are majority muslim and considered secularist.

      There’s muslims who think law should be based on the Koran. But there’s also christians who think law should be based on the bible.

      • G. D. Smith

        That wasn’t just the British, that was the US as well.

        Mosadegh was ousted via a quasi-covert joint US/British initiative called Operation Ajax. It was orchestrated on the US end by Kermit Roosevelt, grandson of Teddy Roosevelt.

      • SkippingDog

        All of that may be correct, but the current facts are that a sizable number of people claiming to act in accord with the requirements of their Muslim faith are killing those they accuse of heresy against the prophet. Without some significant change in that basic fact, all of the peaceable Muslims will end up bearing the brunt of a Western world that realizes coexistence has been made impossible.

      • Philip Schroeder

        While I don’t support it, I don’t see a problem with law being based on the bible.

        You just have to read thoroughly and not take stuff out of context.

        I’m well aware of that Muslims use the same argumentation, but while they normally mean you had to read secondary literature where what to read Muslims themselves are unsure, when what I mean is only, that you don’t start reading in the middle of a sentence.

        For instance, when it says in the books of Moses:

        “God talked to Moses and told him to go to his people and the strangers in Israel, that the following are the laws of his god for the land Kanaan” and then god goes on saying “kill the homosexuals and burn witches”, then this is not nice, but it is not addressed to everyone in the world but to the people living in Kanaan and especially there the people that Moses could talk to, and not some Christian today in the USA or somewhere else, and additionally the law was only to apply inside the borders of Kanaan.

        I am Christian, and I have lengthy arguments with friends all the time, and they normally provide lists of violent passages where either the demands for violence are limited to a specific time and place, or it is no demand at all, but a story about one guy being violent towards another, which is not the same as demanding every Christian on the planet to be violent but it’s just a story..

        So in my opinion it is ok, to critizise the bible as well, but you should take it serious as you should do with the Quran, and not just throw in whatever you found in a full text search.

  • Daniel Brown

    Sadly I concur until mainstream Muslims begin to speak out and stop making excuses for the vicious acts of those who have hijacked their religion. Stop blaming Israel, the West, the media and CLEAN UP YOUR ACT.

    • Dajjal

      Turds do not have clean ends.

    • Philip Schroeder

      What do you mean “hijacked their religion”?

      It’s not that the Quran doesn’t openly demand violence against Nonmuslims.

  • Bruce Gold

    I’ve spent enough time in the progressive community to know you’re totally doing it wrong. The only acceptable response for a progressive after an Islamic terror attack is to blame America and/or Israel for “forcing these poor souls to act out of desperation”, followed by claims that the Jews run Congress, and demands that the U.S. defund Israel. Did you lose the script?!?

  • DP AZ

    Face it. There are gradations of bad religions. Christianity is a bad religion. But Islam is clearly the worst major religion on the planet today.

  • Wonko The Sane

    To be fair, if you point out Saudi Arabia to a Right Wing Nut Job as “a powerful nation that condemns terrorism”, the RWNJ isn’t going to think to ask about their stances on religious freedom, gay rights and women’s rights. The typical RWNJ is in complete agreement with Saudi Arabia on these issues.

    • John Cross

      Exactly right.

    • Dajjal

      I am a Goldwaterite who voted for Jesus Christ when Nixon ran for a second term, and wrote Jesus in again when Bush sought a second term.

      Had I been President in ‘o1, KSA would be a smouldering ash heap.

  • regressive white trash reli

    all religious are bogus,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wish we had none of them

  • John Cross

    Allen, this is what you said:

    “During a discussion about this topic, I asked a liberal friend of mine to name one Islamic state where:

    Homosexuals are allowed to be openly gay.
    Women are given equal rights.
    Other religions are allowed to freely practice their faith and are not oppressed.”

    OK, let me ask you to name ONE “Christian” state where these three are all simultaneously true. Please, just name ONE.

    I am not a defender of Islam. All organized religions have problems of extremism.

    Now, I live in Kurdistan, technically a province of Iraq but autonomous in all respects except for its budget (unfortunately). This is the place which you may have heard of is on the front line against ISIS, and the only credible force to counter them (doing a lot better than the Iraq army). They have lost over 700 soldiers in the fight so far. Christians, Yezidis, etc., are all free to follow their faith. Women have equal legal rights (what that that means in practice, of course, is a different matter anywhere). Indeed, up until Saddam Hussein was deposed (not that I am defending him either) this was true in ALL of Iraq. It was also true up until recent times in many other Islamic countries such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, Jordan, Syria, and the list could go on and on.

    Yes, Islam has become much more radicalized in recent decades. So has Christianity. Look at what Fox News is doing in America. Look at the rise of Fascist parties of one sort or another in Europe.

    We are fighting a war against RADICALISM in all forms, not Islam, not Judaism, not Catholicism nor even Baptism.

    Keep your head set on straight.

    • The Snail

      But radical Christians are no blowing people up like the Muslims. By the way there are no Christians states as such. Christ said render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s. Sorry except perhaps the vatican

    • Philip Schroeder

      What goes as a Christian country anyway?
      Christianity doesn’t claim to set the laws for countries, it says, that people can be saved by making them realize that Christianity is the right way, but if they don’t then they don’t and nothing else happens.

  • Hadrian Embalsado

    When will the religion of peace be the religion of peace it was promising? Well of course there would be people who would take thing literally without checking if it’s ethical or not or use it as a motive to do such things.

    • Philip Schroeder

      Why not take things literally?

      If you can’t take it literally, it is the fault of the book for being written in a bad ambiguous style.

      You need to have a wild imagination to believe that “I have come to bring the sword” means “kill all Nonchristians on the planet” but you don’t need that to believe that “kill the disbelievers whereever you find them” could mean that you should kill all Nonmuslims on the planet.

  • Alan Duval

    You said a mouthful with “ISIL isn’t shrinking. In fact, it’s growing at a
    rather fast pace despite our airstrikes.”

    It’s instructive to look at Robert Pape’s work, which shows that suicide terrorism only happens when the West militarily take over their lands, and they stop, when the West moves out.

    There is a massive US military presence in and around the Middle East. I wonder how the average American would feel if all of the Muslim countries named in this article had a dozen military bases each dotted around the US?

    By rights they would be scared, and fear reduces the ability to think clearly (and this is particularly true of people with fundamentalist religious propensities and/or hard right political leanings). Suicide terrorism is a form of military escalation for the militarily powerless. OK, but these killings have nothing to do with that. Do they?

    According to Bob Altemeyer’s work on Authoritarianism, American Fundamentalist Christians are (very often) Authoritarian… and that political Authoritarianism is a more basic personality trait than Fundamentalism is. I see no reason to believe that Fundamentalist Islam is much different… right down to the fascistic nationalism …and their homeland has been overrun by interfering Americans, and others.

    Then there’s the treatment of women, and let’s not forget how fundamentalist Christianity views women. However, it has a side-effect that not many people think of. If your politics and religion say that you are responsible for your womenfolk, however damaging that is for said womenfolk, imagine how damaging it is for you. When you’re not with your wife and daughters you’re worried about their safety (both because as actually autonomous beings they can get into trouble in their own right), but also because of all of the other men who, like you, have been told to suppress your sexual feelings, and who, like you, have a volcano of repressed natural urges dying to get out could maybe flip out and act on those urges. And then you would be responsible for an autonomous being that was nowhere near you when they were raped. Thanks to victim-blaming (which is endemic in societies with such warped personal autonomy values, and such a propensity for externalising blame), you would also likely have to engage in a so-called honour-killing. Far easier to kill someone who is not your wife or daughter.

    Islam hasn’t gone through a Reformation or Enlightenment because it has never been allowed to, because it happens to sit upon lands of immense natural resource wealth, so none of these significant political issues have been addressed.

    What if your few self-stereotypes is Muslim. You have no homeland, as such, so you aren’t really Iranian or Afghani any more. The country where you live is hostile to you because of the behaviour of your fellows in your former homeland. And the behaviours of your fellows is brought about by the military intervention of the country where you now live. And you live in fear for retribution for your fellows’ attacks which, themselves, were retributive in nature. It’s easy to see that those who are high in empathy for their fellows, or low in intelligence (or worse, both), whose ability to cope is impacted by fear, from all directions, you can anticipate senseless acts.

    Is that enough of a defence?

    • DatBus

      American Liberals have a real problem that they can’t hold anyone accountable for themselves and instead have to filter all world events through the “how is this the fault of white people” narrative. It’s all about Coloniolism and Imperialism! Everything is the fault of the “evil West”! Way to adopt the narrative of your stated enemies. Try learning a little bit about Human History. It does not matter what US foreign policy is – these people hate you BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN. SMH.

      • Alan Duval

        Oh, really? Find a Sura or Hadith that says “Hate America”. Also, it seems you missed the extended treatment I gave to the issues of gender-based autonomy and externalisation of blame endemic to Islam. Or is your complaint that I pointed out that Christianity has the same problem (one that has been ameliorated by gradual secularisation)?

      • DatBus

        It doesn’t need to be in a Hadith or the Qur’an if it’s espoused by Islamic clerics around the globe. And it is. And the development of secularism makes any attempt to claim “all is equally brutal” between Christianity and Islam in 2015 a silly comment.

      • Alan Duval

        Islamic clerics, however, are not a unified body. There is no equivalent to Vatican City and, as with politics, only those that want to be power brokers for its own sake get into positions of power within religion. You;re espousing a conspiracist claim that Islam is a unified body of terrorist cells, and that is simply not the case.

      • Philip Schroeder

        Sura 9, Hadith al-Bukhari #24

        http://quran.com/9/

        http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=2&translator=1&start=0&number=24

        Since the USA don’t worship Allah and acknowledge that Muhammad is his prophet, this is about hatred towards the USA.

  • Donald Sensing

    Allen wrote, “Who the hell is Saudi Arabia to condemn anyone else considering the way they treat their own citizens every single day”?

    Just today a national news outlet carried a blurb about the conviction and sentence of a Saudi national. He was convicted of insulting Islam. Get that? “Insulting Islam.”

    He was sentenced to receive 50 lashes of the whip – per week for 50 straight weeks. 2,500 lashes! Think he will survive?

    Saudi Arabia is not a true nation state. It is an internationally-recognized criminal syndicate. It is the Corleone family with their own country.

    As an Egyptian (and Muslim) friend of mine told me once, his is the only real nation in the entire Arab world. “The rest are just tribes with flags.”

    • Philip Schroeder

      Why is your friend Muslim?

  • DatBus

    Why would anyone on the Left be worried about defending fascism?

  • Pingback: » Are Charlie Hebdo attacks the last straw for apologists of Islamism?()

  • Guest

    the Islamic method of world domination:
    (sorry from one of my many spread sheets on the topic)

    COUNTRY
    POPULATION
    PERCENT MUSLIM
    NUMBER

    UNDER 2 %

    UNITED STATES

    0.6

    FIT IN
    AND

    AUSTRALIA

    1.5

    GET ALONG

    CANADA

    1.9

    CHINA

    1.8

    ITALY

    1.5

    NORWAY

    1.8

    2 TO 5 %

    DENMARK

    2

    PROSELYTIZE

    GERMANY

    3.7

    FROM
    OTHER

    UNITED KINDOM

    2.7

    EHNIC

    SPAIN

    4

    MAJORITIES

    THAILAND

    4.6

    RECRUIT
    FROM

    JAILS AND

    STREET GANGS

    FROM 5 % TO 10%

    FRANCE

    8

    PUSH FOR

    PHILLIPPINES

    5

    HALAL FOOD

    SWEDEN

    5

    SECURING

    SWITZERLAND

    4.3

    FOOD PREP

    THE NETHERLANDS

    5

    JOBS FOR

    TRINIDAD &TABAGO

    5

    MUSLIMS

    5.8

    AND PRESSURE

    .

    SCHOOLS
    AND

    FOOD SUPPLIERS

    AND THREATS

    FROM 10% TO 20%

    GUYANA

    10

    THE
    WORK TO LET

    INDIA

    13.4

    THE RULING GOV

    ISRAEL

    16

    RULE THEMSELVES

    KENYA

    10

    WITH
    IN THERE

    RUSSIA

    15

    GHETTOS UNDER

    SHARIA LAW

    INCREASE OF

    LAWLESSNESS

    TO
    COMPLAIN

    ABOUT CONDITIONS

    CAR BURNINGS

    ANY NON MUSLIM

    ACTION
    OFFENDS

    ISLAM, AND RESULTS

    IN UPRISINGS AND

    THREATS
    EVEN TO

    MEMBERS
    OF

    POLITICAL PARTIES

    AND JUDGES.

    FROM 20 TO 40 %

    ETHIOPIA

    32.8

    HAIR
    TRIGGER

    RIOTING, JIHAD

    MILITIA FORMATIONS

    SPORADIC KILLINGS

    BURNING
    OF

    CHURCHES
    AND

    JEWISH SYNAGOGUES

    FROM 40 TO 60%

    BOSNIA

    40

    WIDESPREAD

    CHAD

    53.1

    MASSACRES,
    CHRONIC
    LEBANON

    59.7

    TERROR
    ATTACKS, AND

    ON GOING MILITIA

    WARFAIR

    FROM 60% TO 80 %

    ALBANIA

    70

    UNFETTERED

    MALAYSIA

    60.4

    PERSECUTION OF

    QATAR

    77.5

    NON
    BELIEVERS OF ALL
    SUDAN

    70

    OTHER RELIGIONS

    INCLUDING
    NON

    CONFORMING
    MUSLIMS

    SPORATIC ETHINIC

    CLEANSING

    GENOCIDE

    USE OF SHARIA LAW

    AS A WEAPON, AND

    JIZYA TAX PLACED ON

    INFIDELS

    FROM 80 TO 100 %

    BANGLADESH

    83

    DAILY INTIMIDATION

    EGYPT

    90

    VIOLENT JIHAD

    GAZA

    98.7

    STATE RUN ETHINIC

    INDONESIA

    86.1

    CLEANSING AND SOME

    IRAN

    98

    GENOCIDE AS THEY

    IRAQ

    97

    DRIVE
    OUT THE LAST

    JORDAN

    92

    OF THE INFIDELS AND

    MOROCCO

    98.7

    MOVE TOWARDS 100

    PAKISTAN

    97

    PERCENT MUSLIM.

    PALESTINE

    99

    SYRIA

    90

    TAJIKISTAN

    90

    TURKEY

    99.8

    UNITED ARAB EMIRATES

    96

    AT 100 PERCENT

    AFGHANISTAN

    100

    DAR ES DSALAAM

    SAUDI ARABIA

    100

    THE ISLAMIC HOUSE

    SOMALIA

    100

    OF PEACE.

    YEMEN

    100

    MADRASSES
    ARE THE

    ONLY SCHOOLS, AND

    THE
    KORAN IS THE

    ONLY WORD

    Unfortunately,
    peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims
    intimidate and spew hatred,

    and
    satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of
    reasons.

    It
    is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100%
    Muslim populations, such as France, the

    minority
    Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and
    within which they live by Sharia Law.

    The
    national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts
    nor schools nor non-Muslim religious facilities.

    In
    such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The
    children attend madrasses.

    They
    learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable
    with death.

    Therefore,
    in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more
    power than the national average would indicate.

    Today’s
    1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world’s population. But their birth
    rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddists, and Jews, and
    all other believers

    .
    Muslims will exceed 50% of the world’s population by the end of this century.

    In
    my opinion, Muslims should be expelled from all Western countries and
    isolated. It’s the only way we can avoid the impending violence.

    Islam
    is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In it’s fullest form, it is a complete,
    total, 100% system

    of
    life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military
    components.

    once
    you know all this and a whole lot more, its very hard to live in ignorance
    and so called bliss as this silent war goes on around you…

    …..and
    your Muslim neighbors who play with your kids, lol not likely they do not
    mix, and they do not believe they have to follow our laws

    but
    will take every advantage of them if it suits there purpose……they do not
    like bacon, or dogs…….or alcohol…….so in a hockey back bacon

    beer
    drinking country like Canada you really have to wonder what the hell there
    doing here…….other than to live off welfare while they drive cab

    and
    rape your daughter………so can not blame some for getting a little
    excited……….about the situation………however we do have laws in place

    some very recent as is bill c-24 finally
    updating our immigration laws after 57 years………..so this welfare Muslim
    free ride party is about to end..

    …….finally………….we
    hope……….stay on the internet for updates…………

  • Larrie Cole

    being gay is the least of your problems , this is about world domination.
    the Islamic method of world domination:
    (sorry from one of my many spread sheets on the topic)

    UNDER 2 %

    COUNTRY
    POPULATION
    PERCENT MUSLIM
    NUMBER

    FIT IN
    AND

    UNITED STATES

    0.6

    GET ALONG

    AUSTRALIA

    1.5

    CANADA

    1.9

    CHINA

    1.8

    ITALY

    1.5

    2 TO 5 %

    NORWAY

    1.8

    PROSELYTIZE

    DENMARK

    2

    FROM
    OTHER

    GERMANY

    3.7

    EHNIC

    UNITED KINDOM

    2.7

    MAJORITIES

    SPAIN

    4

    RECRUIT
    FROM

    THAILAND

    4.6

    JAILS AND

    STREET GANGS

    FROM 5 % TO 10%

    FRANCE

    8

    PUSH FOR

    PHILLIPPINES

    5

    HALAL FOOD

    SWEDEN

    5

    SECURING

    SWITZERLAND

    4.3

    FOOD PREP

    THE NETHERLANDS

    5

    JOBS FOR

    TRINIDAD &TABAGO

    5

    MUSLIMS

    5.8

    AND PRESSURE

    .

    SCHOOLS
    AND

    FOOD SUPPLIERS

    AND THREATS

    FROM 10% TO 20%

    GUYANA

    10

    THE
    WORK TO LET

    INDIA

    13.4

    THE RULING GOV

    ISRAEL

    16

    RULE THEMSELVES

    KENYA

    10

    WITH
    IN THERE

    RUSSIA

    15

    GHETTOS UNDER

    SHARIA LAW

    INCREASE OF

    LAWLESSNESS

    TO
    COMPLAIN

    ABOUT CONDITIONS

    CAR BURNINGS

    ANY NON MUSLIM

    ACTION
    OFFENDS

    ISLAM, AND RESULTS

    IN UPRISINGS AND

    THREATS
    EVEN TO

    MEMBERS
    OF

    POLITICAL PARTIES

    AND JUDGES.

    FROM 20 TO 40 %

    ETHIOPIA

    32.8

    HAIR
    TRIGGER

    RIOTING, JIHAD

    MILITIA FORMATIONS

    SPORADIC KILLINGS

    BURNING
    OF

    CHURCHES
    AND

    JEWISH SYNAGOGUES

    FROM 40 TO 60%

    BOSNIA

    40

    WIDESPREAD

    CHAD

    53.1

    MASSACRES,
    CHRONIC
    LEBANON

    59.7

    TERROR
    ATTACKS, AND

    ON GOING MILITIA

    WARFAIR

    FROM 60% TO 80 %

    ALBANIA

    70

    UNFETTERED

    MALAYSIA

    60.4

    PERSECUTION OF

    QATAR

    77.5

    NON
    BELIEVERS OF ALL
    SUDAN

    70

    OTHER RELIGIONS

    INCLUDING
    NON

    CONFORMING
    MUSLIMS

    SPORATIC ETHINIC

    CLEANSING

    GENOCIDE

    USE OF SHARIA LAW

    AS A WEAPON, AND

    JIZYA TAX PLACED ON

    INFIDELS

    FROM 80 TO 100 %

    BANGLADESH

    83

    DAILY INTIMIDATION

    EGYPT

    90

    VIOLENT JIHAD

    GAZA

    98.7

    STATE RUN ETHINIC

    INDONESIA

    86.1

    CLEANSING AND SOME

    IRAN

    98

    GENOCIDE AS THEY

    IRAQ

    97

    DRIVE
    OUT THE LAST

    JORDAN

    92

    OF THE INFIDELS AND

    MOROCCO

    98.7

    MOVE TOWARDS 100

    PAKISTAN

    97

    PERCENT MUSLIM.

    PALESTINE

    99

    SYRIA

    90

    TAJIKISTAN

    90

    TURKEY

    99.8

    UNITED ARAB EMIRATES

    96

    AT 100 PERCENT

    AFGHANISTAN

    100

    DAR ES DSALAAM

    SAUDI ARABIA

    100

    THE ISLAMIC HOUSE

    SOMALIA

    100

    OF PEACE.

    YEMEN

    100

    MADRASSES
    ARE THE

    ONLY SCHOOLS, AND

    THE
    KORAN IS THE

    ONLY WORD

    Unfortunately,
    peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims
    intimidate and spew hatred,

    and
    satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of
    reasons.

    It
    is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100%
    Muslim populations, such as France, the

    minority
    Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and
    within which they live by Sharia Law.

    The
    national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts
    nor schools nor non-Muslim religious facilities.

    In
    such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The
    children attend madrasses.

    They
    learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable
    with death.

    Therefore,
    in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more
    power than the national average would indicate.

    Today’s
    1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world’s population. But their birth
    rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddists, and Jews, and
    all other believers

    .
    Muslims will exceed 50% of the world’s population by the end of this century.

    In
    my opinion, Muslims should be expelled from all Western countries and
    isolated. It’s the only way we can avoid the impending violence.

    Islam
    is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In it’s fullest form, it is a complete,
    total, 100% system

    of
    life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military
    components.

    once
    you know all this and a whole lot more, its very hard to live in ignorance
    and so called bliss as this silent war goes on around you…

    …..and
    your Muslim neighbors who play with your kids, lol not likely they do not
    mix, and they do not believe they have to follow our laws

    but
    will take every advantage of them if it suits there purpose……they do not
    like bacon, or dogs…….or alcohol…….so in a hockey back bacon

    beer
    drinking country like Canada you really have to wonder what the hell there
    doing here…….other than to live off welfare while they drive cab

    and
    rape your daughter………so can not blame some for getting a little
    excited……….about the situation………however we do have laws in place

    some very recent as is bill c-24 finally
    updating our immigration laws after 57 years………..so this welfare Muslim
    free ride party is about to end..

    …….finally………….we
    hope……….stay on the internet for updates…………

  • Larrie Cole

    this post does not deal with spread sheets , it is a copy of inlamic adgenda.

  • EtoculusDei

    I’ve spent the last 20 years trying to tell people this stuff. The Islamist don’t hate the west because of the worst things we do. They hate us for the best things that we do. They hate us because we allow religious freedom and the free exchange of ideas. They hate us because we grant equal rights to women and minorities. Islamist are some of the most racist people on the planet. You won’t find many mixed Muslim Marriages. Islamist hate that we decries their violence. They hate us because we don’t consider children property. Most of all they hate our democracies. They prefer law be instituted by THEIR mullahs. That is the first thing they “fix” when they take over.

    Liberals have been telling us for years this was about Big Oil, Bush, Haliburton, et al, and yet in their own manifestos the Muslims say their hatred springs from our refusal to convert to their religion. THAT is their number one demand in this current insanely violent Jihad. Why have we refused to believe them. They do everything they threaten….without fail. We must be crazy….or blind.

  • TrickleUpPolitics

    Gee another liberal mugged by reality.

  • Richard Medicus

    “They have to build nations not ruled by the Quran, but by basic human decency toward everyone regardless of gender, religion or sexual orientation.”

    That’ll get your head cut off for sure.

  • eclecticmn

    Catholic doctrine proscribes premarital sex, birth control, and abortions. I had Catholic GFs long ago who engaged in premarital sex and used birth control. One said she had had an abortion. The other once drove a friend to get an abortion.

    They were not ‘good’ Catholics I guess. Their behavior did not change official Catholic doctrine.

    Some Musims are not “good” Muslims either as they are “moderate.” They do not change the teachings of the Koran or Islamic law as taught by the major Islamic Law centers. Where are the Islamic demonstrations opposing the murders of the cartoonists? The less devout Muslims still provide support and cover for the more devout and violent Muslims. They cannot argue that killing the cartoonists violates the teachings of the Koran.

    • slev09

      There have been Muslims that have spoke out and opposed this. They have almost universally spoken out, except for the fringe radical clerics that Fox News puts on TV.

      How do the less devout Muslims provide support for the most violent Muslims? How do moderate Muslims in Albania or Indonesia provide support for ISIS?

      • Bram

        Al-Quran 8:12: “When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”

      • slev09

        So your response is a quote from Tue Qur’an that not ONLY lacks context, but is a poor translation. The idea of “striking off ones head” is as much supported by the original text as homosexuality is an “abomination” is with the bible.

        Also, beheading is used only in a particular set of cultural circumstances.

        Lastly, here is what foows your quote: “But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that hears and knows (all things). ”

        The quote you used refers to invading armies

      • Bram

        Oh.. Then why didn’t Muhammad leave it to God to take care of Ka’b bin al-Ashraf (a Jewish poet who mocked him)? Instead Muhammad had him assassinated in an attack eerily similar to Charlie Hebdo.

      • Dajjal
      • Philip Schroeder

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxFRnyoEEr0

        Here is an Ayat in context, I’m looking forward to see your response.

      • Philip Schroeder

        But they speak out by condemning the killings, they don’t say that the teachigns of the uran need to be changed because they foster violence in the name of their religion nor are they able to disprove such accusations made by critics.

        Condemning violence while at the same time you support scriptures demanding exactly these, means nothing.

  • Bram

    I suggest you read the Koran and the Hadith (basically the Acts of Mohammed). Trying the protect a religion with little idea of what they believe and how the founder acted seems silly. Warning – not pleasant stuff.

  • Keith Thompson

    Why didn’t you just begin by actually studying the koran and ahadith as well as the best sides of both interpretations (i.e., those who say it teaches offensive jihad and terrorism vs. those who say its peaceful)? If you, and all the other liberal truth-deniers would just do that, you would never defend this religion to begin with. This is a major problem.

    • Dajjal

      There are two much smaller works that expose the evil core of Islam. “Jihad: The Islamic Doctrine of Permanent War” can be found quite easily on the web in html format and purchased from Amazon. It cites the relevant ayat and ahadith.

      “The Quranic Concept of War” is an out of print Pakistani strategy manual. it lists the specific ayat and ahadith related to terrorism. Every literate Liberal should read pages 58 through 60 at minimum.

      http://wolfpangloss.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/malik-quranic-concept-of-war.pdf#page=50

  • EtoculusDei

    From French polymath Ernest Renan’s 1883 Sorbonne lecture on Islam:

    Islam is the seamless union of the spiritual and the temporal, it is the reign of dogma, it is the heaviest chain mankind has ever borne. In the early Middle Ages, Islam tolerated philosophy, because it could not stop it. It could not stop it because it was as yet disorganized, and poorly armed for terror….But as soon as Islam had a mass of ardent believers at its disposal, it destroyed everything in its path. Religious terror and hypocrisy were the order of the day. Islam has been liberal when weak, and violent when strong. Let us not give it credit for what it was merely unable to suppress.

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  • Sabree

    @Allen_Clifton Nice take on the whole evolving crisis of Islam in the news. I appreciate your effort to be fair in looking at the Islamic faith and I can feel your pain when it comes to being sick of seeing all the violence in the name of Islam. Trust me, Muslims are very tired of seeing acts senseless violence perpetrated and then associated to their religion. My suggestion to you would be to stop spending so much time on the news and spend some time with the actual people. The mainstream media narrative seems to have a pretty fixed agenda to demonize Islam. You’d be amazed how many Muslims are out in the world doing good things in the name of humanity or even in the name of Islam and they get ZERO press. When is the last time you heard the term “Muslim philanthropist”? But if a Muslim so much as runs a red light its on the nightly news as “Islamic rebellion against western rule of law” (some exaggeration added). But since only bad news about Muslims makes the news, and most most Americans don’t know a Muslim or read accurate information about Islam, their media based education about Islam only creates a worsening impression to the extent that even people who want to be fair and objective like yourself start to become disheartened.

    Also don’t be so hard on other countries for not holding the exact same values as America does. Each society has their own values based on their unique culture and history. Some countries prefer kings, some prefer presidents, some allow weed, others don’t. Human values are impacted by several factors and change with time. Even the laws in America today would seem very alien to the laws of 20 or 30 years ago. Thing is, America doesn’t have many fixed cultural values since everyone came here from somewhere with a different cultural background and thus made this country the melting pot it is. So as culture in America is open to changes, so too are laws. Other countries (Eastern and even African) are not really melting pots like America and so they don’t change as commonly or radically as America does.

    People naturally fear what they don’t understand, and that fear can grow to hate and at worst violence. I think we need more understanding between the common citizens of the East and West.

    • Philip Schroeder

      It is great to do good things, but why do you need to support Islam at the same time?
      It is not that Islam is somehow inseparable from you.

      If you see, the religion has aspects that you cannot support, then just leave it.
      You can’t because the death penalty is on apostasy?

      One more reason to leave it, you don’t have that penalty in western countries, and here you have people to fight for your right to leave your religion, when only you show them, that you are willing to do so.

      BUT if you insist on going on and on blabbering about that Islam is a peaceful religion while being unable to disprove stuff like this

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxFRnyoEEr0

      Then you won’t find help nor support from Nonmuslims, and noone will believe your “there are good Muslims out there, the religion is inherently merciful”-crap..

  • There is only one state in the Middle East that fits your three criteria, but it isn’t Muslim — it’s Israel.

  • FactsRule

    “They have to build nations not ruled by the Quran, but by basic human decency toward everyone regardless of gender, religion or sexual orientation.”
    The reason this won’t happen is evident from the statistics:
    http://www.politicalislam.com/statistical-islam-pdf/

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  • Ryan

    Now you’re getting it. I just don’t understand how liberals can defend Islam when basically every Muslim disagrees with their beliefs on every level. Do they not realize how horrible the religion actually is? It is not a coincidence that Muslim countries have horrible human rights records and that there are so many terrorists that kill in the name of Allah. Use some basic reasoning, take a look at the Qur’an and the Hadith, it’s not pretty, and a quarter of the world population believes in this crap.

  • DNA

    You don’t defend Islam if you feel inadequate let me defend it instead. There is no-one on this earth that can attack Prophet Muhammad and the Quran and win. They are from God. Groups like ISIS etc are disowned by the Quran Sura 3:7 which disowns anyone using interpretations of the Quran to get up to no good. ISIS say they are fulfilling prophecies of the Day of Judgement which according to Sura 3:7 makes them a false group not Muslims.

    Sura 2:190 specifically tells Muslims not to attack first or initiate hostilities. Those who disobey this disobey their Quran.

    Both Muhammad and the Quran absolve themselves of things like murder etc
    Again. Let there be no compulsion in religion is in the Quran yet Muslims don’t obey it. Is that the Quran’s fault or Prophet Muhammad’s if His followers betray Him??

    The Hadiths are not authentic and can never ever be proven to be authentic therefore relying on Hadiths is ‘unconstitutional’. The ONLY authority in Islam is the Quran not Hadiths and not Mullas or scholars. Only the Word of God is authoritative and what all Muslims should be following and faithful to.

    Defend the Quran and Muhammad. You have to know and understand the Quran to defend it. This terrorism has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam. and if you know your Quran you can find plenty of verses that condemn groups like ISIS

    • Philip Schroeder

      what is with 9:28-9:30, what is with 4:92:4:94, what is with 2:217?

      • DNA

        The only issue Muhammad had in those days were mainly with the Quraysh who were the ISIS of His day, pure savages and barbarians worse than anything we’ve come across and they did as they pleased and Muhammad arose the protect the innocent from oppression.

        As far as Christians are concerned Muhammad never had any issue with Christians or Jews unless they supported the barbaric Qquraysh and it was to those he wanted to subdue and civilise and change from their barbaric ways.

        This is an excerpt from the son of Baha’u’llah regarding Muhammad’s treatment of Christians.

        ““Muhammad never fought against the Christians; on the contrary, He treated them kindly and gave them perfect freedom. A community of Christian people lived at Najrán and were under His care and protection. Muhammad said, “If anyone infringes their rights, I Myself will be his enemy, and in the presence of God I will bring a charge against him.” In the edicts which He promulgated it is clearly stated that the lives, properties and honor of the Christians and Jews are under the protection of God; and that if a Muhammadan married a Christian woman, the husband must not prevent her from going to church, nor oblige her to veil herself; and that if she died, he must place her remains in the care of the Christian clergy. Should the Christians desire to build a church, Islám ought to help them.

        In case of war between Islám and her enemies, the Christians should be exempted from the obligation of fighting, unless they desired of their own free will to do so in defense of Islám, because they were under its protection. But as a compensation for this immunity, they should pay yearly a small sum of money.

        In short, there are seven detailed edicts on these subjects, some copies of which are still extant at Jerusalem. This is an established fact and is not dependent on my affirmation. The edict of the second Caliph still exists in the custody of the orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, and of this there is no doubt.”

        “Nevertheless, after a certain time, and through the transgression of both the Muhammadans and the Christians, hatred and enmity arose between them. Beyond this fact, all the narrations of the Muslims, Christians and others are simply fabrications, which have their origin in fanaticism, or ignorance, or emanate from intense hostility.”

        Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “Some Answered Questions.” Bahá’í eBooks Publications,

  • DNA

    We Baha’is believe in the Quran as the Word of God as well as the Bible yet none of us have ever become jihadists or extremists.

    We do not accept the interpretation of the Quran current amongst Muslims but the one taught by Baha’u’llah the One foretold in all the Holy Books and scriptures.

    This is our fundamental prayer and belief….

    O Thou kind Lord! Unite all. Let the religions agree and make the nations one, so that they may see each other as one family and the whole earth as one home. May they all live together in perfect harmony. O God! Raise aloft the banner of the oneness of mankind. O God! Establish the Most Great Peace. Cement Thou, O God, the hearts together. (Baha’i Prayers)

    Baha’u’llah said these Words…

    We desire but the good of the world and the happiness of the nations; yet they deem Us a stirrer up of strife and sedition worthy of bondage and banishment…. That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled—what harm is there in this?… Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the ‘Most Great Peace’ shall come…. Yet do We see your kings and rulers lavishing their treasures more freely on means for the destruction of the human race than on that which would conduce to the happiness of mankind…. These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family…. Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind….

  • krkrkr

    i defend muslims because they are traditional, simple, believing people. we’ve killed A LOT of them. thousand times more than jihadists kill westerners, so its normal for them to form a kind of defence for their lands even if they are doing it the wrong way. the thing is political dont judge muslim ideology. there were no attacks before the formation of israel..think about losing your homeland to your enemy (isis).Would you stop resistance? AS for the laws of the quran, cant you accept that different Countries have different laws? seriously what are you a Law dictator or something? they believe in shariah its their choice godammit get over it

    • Philip Schroeder

      They can believe in Sharia in THEIR countries, but I don’t want them to bring their Sharia, when they emigrate to western countries, leave it at the border or don’t come.

  • DNA

    “Muhammad, the Apostle of God, bewaileth, in the all-highest Paradise, their acts.” ” (Baha’u’llah)

    A day shall be witnessed by My people,” their own traditions condemn them, “whereon there will have remained of Islám naught but a name, and of the Qur’án naught but a mere appearance. The doctors of that age shall be the most evil the world hath ever seen. Mischief hath proceeded from them, and on them it will recoil.”

    Excerpt From: Effendi, Shoghi. “The Promised Day Is Come.” Bahá’í eBooks

    • Philip Schroeder

      Evil is in the eye of the beholder, I’m looking forward to that day.

  • lifeok

    Christianity has caused more death in the world than all the diseases and wars combined. Islam was the pillar of civilization until the sacking of Baghdad by the Mongols in 1258, and guess what, the Mongols were Christians orthodox introduced by the steppe poeple in Siberia and Russia. Christianity is the religion of Lucifer and I’m glad people like Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and Jerry Falwell are in Hell right now giving their god Satan fellatio for all eternity..

    • Philip Schroeder

      Seriously? Did you ever take a look at the Quran or the Sirat?
      Islam started of with constant battles and at one time before the crusades, that were merely a reaction to that, conquered half of Europe throgh their “defensive wars”.

      You shouldn’t mix up what secular states do with what Christian countries do.
      The USA threw the nuke on Japan, not because god told them so, but because they wanted to win a worldly war (and they wanted to test their new toy, but that’s another discussion).

      Fightning wars in the name of religion is not the same as fighting wars for worldly reasons in countries were the mejority is coincidentally of a specific religion.

  • Mike SG

    It’s people like you who have made this a left vs. right issue, Allen Clifton. Desperately looking for arguments to defend Islam. Simply because you feel you have to. Why? Because it has become “progressive” instinct to stand up for the imperialistic and bloodthirsty ideology of Islam. An ideology that makes Nazism look liberal.

    All who dare question the Islamic ideology have been purged from the left. Ayaan Hirsi Ali started her political career in the Dutch Labor Party. She was told to shut up about Islam.

    In their embrace of Islam (and hatred of Israel and Jews-I-mean-Zionists), “progressives” have become the new reactionaries. Their opinions and political choices dictated by cheap sentiments and irrational fears.

  • carbs laredo

    Well, Allen, welcome. I share your numb feeling at the Hebdo killings just as I have felt it when it was Christians and Yazidis that were slaughtered for nothing more than their religious beliefs – let alone the savagery the befell women and children that survived. It defies credulity that the liberal left and your progressive ilk are so quick to denounce and wallow in schadenfreude when it is a religion other than islam that takes a hit or has a leader that fails. Your folks twist yourselves into pretzels and bend over backwards to explain away actions by radical muslims that, by any other standard, would be defined as reprehensible and loudly condemned. Why do you turn a blind eye to their stance against gays, abortion and infidels? Why do you ignore their misogynistic attitude on women’s rights? Are you afraid of them or is their ideology in line with yours? Take no prisoners and quash any dissent. Seems like the muslims and the progs have quite a bit in common. At least the same enemy.

  • Ilisha

    There’s a difference between “defending Islam” and defending Muslim civil rights. I don’t know why you would be called upon to “defend Islam” in the first place.

    • HerrSkolly

      I think the political sway is hitting a limit. I hope I’m right on that anyhow. We will see.

      • mike

        what in the world does that mean?

      • HerrSkolly

        Reference to the pendulum of politics.

      • mike

        yes the pendulum. trust me, it hasn’t even come close to its zenith. guys in boston wanting to behead cops. two americans driving 100s of miles to shoot people for drawing a cartoon. the American muslims seem to be getting worse, not better. wait til the jews really counter this BDS movement. American muslims are in for a long haul. and all these silly lawsuits aren’t helping.
        the pendulum isn’t swing back the other way anytime soon. the muslims are their own worst enemy.

      • mike

        so what did you think of the beginning of the second surah?

        The Cow

        In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

        [2.1] Alif Lam Mim.
        [2.2] This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).
        [2.3] Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them.
        [2.4] And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.
        [2.5] These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful.
        [2.6] Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.
        [2.7] Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.
        [2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
        [2.9] They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
        [2.10] There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied.
        [2.11] And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers.
        [2.12] Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.
        [2.13] And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know.
        [2.14] And when they meet those who believe, they say: We believe; and when they are alone with their Shaitans, they say: Surely we are with you, we were only mocking.
        [2.15] Allah shall pay them back their mockery, and He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on.
        [2.16] These are they who buy error for the right direction, so their bargain shall bring no gain, nor are they the followers of the right direction.
        [2.17] Their parable is like the parable of one who kindled a fire but when it had illumined all around him, Allah took away their light, and left them in utter darkness– they do not see.
        [2.18] Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.
        [2.19] Or like abundant rain from the cloud in which is utter darkness and thunder and lightning; they put their fingers into their ears because of the thunder peal, for fear of death, and Allah encompasses the unbelievers.
        [2.20] The lightning almost takes away their sight; whenever it shines on them they walk in it, and when it becomes dark to them they stand still; and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have taken away their hearing and their sight; surely Allah has power over all things.
        [2.21] O men! serve your Lord Who created you and those before you so that you may guard (against evil).
        [2.22] Who made the earth a resting place for you and the heaven a canopy and (Who) sends down rain from the cloud then brings forth with it subsistence for you of the fruits; therefore do not set up rivals to Allah while you know.
        [2.23] And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.
        [2.24] But if you do (it) not and never shall you do (it), then be on your guard against the fire of which men and stones are the fuel; it is prepared for the unbelievers.
        [2.25] And convey good news to those who believe and do good deeds, that they shall have gardens in which rivers flow; whenever they shall be given a portion of the fruit thereof, they shall say: This is what was given to us before; and they shall be given the like of it, and they shall have pure mates in them, and in them, they shall abide.
        [2.26] Surely Allah is not ashamed to set forth any parable– (that of) a gnat or any thing above that; then as for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord, and as for those who disbelieve, they say: What is it that Allah means by this parable: He causes many to err by it and many He leads aright by it! but He does not cause to err by it (any) except the transgressors,
        [2.27] Who break the covenant of Allah after its confirmation and cut asunder what Allah has ordered to be joined, and make mischief in the land; these it is that are the losers.
        [2.28] How do you deny Allah and you were dead and He gave you life? Again He will cause you to die and again bring you to life, then you shall be brought back to Him.
        [2.29] He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth, and He directed Himself to the heaven, so He made them complete seven heavens, and He knows all things.
        [2.30] And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.
        [2.31] And He taught Adam all the names, then presented them to the angels; then He said: Tell me the names of those if you are right.

    • B.D.S.

      Basically a mish-mash of unrelated things devoid of any context that puts a stamp of approval on collective punishment concluding that “yes, I resisted thus far to say this, but damn I agree that Islam is evil”. Of course, as usual no mention of foreign policies, why would he, the ultimate smoke-screen/cash cow – Islam, it still the gift that keeps on giving. 🙂

    • mike

      because islam is the motivating force behind many of the laws in Islamic countries. is that not obvious. why is it gays can’t be openly gay in countries ruled by sharia? name an Islamic country with gay marriage?

      • Ilisha

        Most Muslim countries do NOT have legal systems based on Islamic law. They have, for the most part, adopted the legal systems of their colonizers or other European powers.

        Your comment also has NOTHING TO DO with my reply. As I SAID clearly, there is a difference between defending MUSLIM CIVIL RIGHTS and DEFENDING ISLAM. A law-abiding citizen in the US deserves civil rights, which are not predicated on the legal and social customs of other countries. The notion a Muslim in the US doesn’t deserve his or her basic civil rights because, for example, Saudi Arabia doesn’t permit gay marriage, is obviously unjust and a form of “collective punishment,” based on nothing but shared faith.

      • mike

        you asked why would anyone be called to defend islam. isn’t that obvious. because they are muslim. just like Catholics would be called upon to defend catholic doctrine.

        the author asked three questions about muslim countries. what does that have to do with muslim civil rights?

        “Your comment also has NOTHING TO DO with my reply” – your comments have nothing to do with this article.
        yes law biding citizens in any country deserve civil rights. who said muslims don’t deserve civil rights? the author? me? but I guess if you make a law against being gay it is alright to kill them?
        DO YOU SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE? if not, why not? does it have anything to do with you being muslim?

      • mike

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_sharia_law_by_country

        Most Muslim countries do NOT have legal systems based on Islamic law

        so are you saying that countries shouldn’t base their law on Islamic law/sharia?

      • Ilisha

        No.

      • mike

        so countries should base there law on sharia?

      • Ilisha

        Countries should be free to decide. That’s the idea of a sovereign, independent nation.

      • mike

        ok. so if a country decides that:
        1. the punishment for homosexuality is death, you are fine with that?
        2. slavery should be legal, you are fine with that?

      • Ilisha

        What do you mean “fine with that”? I don’t have to approve, nor would I support military action to force change. Unlike many people, especially in the West, I don’t have the idea the entire planet is “ours” to rule.

      • mike

        I mean, fine with that. is it not a self explanatory phrase? if a country has a law saying gays should be put to death, are you fine with that? ok with it? not bothered by it? or possible even supportive of it?
        nothing about military action.
        if a country were to bring back slavery, would you be fine with that, as in not have a problem with it. as in not speak out against it? as in not think it is WRONG? do you now understand what I mean by ‘fine with that’?

      • Ilisha

        What’s the point of this tangent?

      • mike

        just trying to understand your political position. you are a muslim American, right? people tell me I should speak to muslims to find out what islam is really all about. you know, they say things like, ‘stop getting all your information from faux news or fear inc’. not that I get much information on islam from those sources, but anyway, here you are, ‘an average American muslim’. or maybe above average? 😉

        thusly, the questions remain.

        so if a country decides that:
        1. the punishment for homosexuality is death, you are fine with that?
        2. slavery should be legal, you are fine with that?

      • Ilisha

        Yes, I would rejoice. I also think every Muslim-majority country should impose a law demanding that all citizens stone apostates and eat puppies for breakfast. 🙂

      • mike

        i’ll take that as a yes and a yes. so you follow the sunnah? are you salafi?

        Narrated ‘Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”

        Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar: Allah’s Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.

        (not sure where you get the eating part from, but good to hear you don’t want to waste the meat)
        see, now we are learning something.
        so I take it you would also rejoice at sovereign nations that allow 9 year-old girls to marry as well?

      • Ilisha

        You would take that as a yes??? I gather you have no grasp of sarcasm.

        In any case, it’s Saturday and I have maple donuts to eat and chores to complete. I’m finished here.

        Take care.

      • mike

        oh sarcasm. I was thinking that might be, but then it would have left the questions unanswered. once again.
        maybe multiple choice is the way to go. on a scale of 1 to 5, 1 being total agreement, 2 somewhat agree 3 indifference 4 somewhat disagree and 5 total disagreement – how would you rate
        A) a law that said homosexuality is illegal
        B) a law that said slavery was legal

      • mike

        so did you get your chores done?
        you can understand my confusion on your sarcasm. you did after all say that you don’t find it disconcerting that so many muslims believe that apostates should be killed.
        so you aren’t for killing of apostates?
        but don’t mind it if a sovereign nation has that as a law?
        or that 100’s of millions of muslims believe you should?

      • Ilisha

        Why would I be scared? Of what? I always find this notion interesting, and ask if the one we allgedly fear will huff and puff and blow our house down.

        As far as I know you’re not officially banned. But you troll LW, have employed deceptive sock puppets, and your comments aren’t welcome there. We have enough trolls, especially lately.

        We publish comments at our discretion, period.

      • mike

        see. why are you scared? I don’t know why. only you would know that. fi you aren’t scared of me huffing and puffing, then why not allow me to blow?
        you mean sockpuppet36 was a ‘deceptive’ sock puppet? how can I deceive the truth that is islam?

        you are scared of my knowledge of islam. you are scared of my debating skills. you are scared of being called out on your hypocrisy.

        if you aren’t. then why not let my comment though?

        not ‘officially banned? what does that mean. I’ve had numerous accounts blocked. a red banner comes up and says ‘this account has been blocked’ or something like that. here it looks like this:

        We are unable to post your comment because you have been blocked by Raw Story. Find out more.
        but obviously says loonwatch instead. if you like I can try to remember my past accounts and try to login with them and comment, only to have said comments blocked, ‘officially’.

      • mike

        so ilisha, can you tell me where gog and magog are?

      • mike

        if you aren’t scared, let my comments through.

      • Ilisha

        No. It’s not a matter of fear. You add no value by trolling our discussions. You have a weird obsession, you engage in deceptiom, and if I see comments from you pending, I’ll delete them. Always.

      • mike

        “and if I see comments from you pending, I’ll delete them. Always.” but I’m not banned? hilarious. I mean clearly I’m not banned ‘OFFICIALLY’ lmfao.
        how have I engaged in deception?

      • Ilisha

        I would ban you if it were up to me. As I’ve said many times, I can’t ban people. Only the admin can.

        Have I engaged in deception? No. No incentive. If you were banned, I’d gladly tell you.

      • mike

        yes we are all familiar with your caveats. you don’t do the actual banning only the admin does that. and the police don’t put people in jail, the judge does that.

        “Have I engaged in deception? No. No incentive” I have no idea what this means?

        “If you were banned, I’d gladly tell you.” so I’m not banned. just my comments aren’t allowed? lmfao.

        what is it you are scared of?

      • Ilisha

        Other mods may allow your comments. I delete them, which is consistent with what I said. I would ban you if I could and gladly tell you. Why would I lie? I can’t imagine.

        We aren’t afraid of you. You flatter yourself. It’s common for people whose comments are unwelcome to decide it’s because we are intimidated by their devastating arguments. LOL. This is not true.

        Debbie makes better arguments than you do and while I disagree with her, she’s clearly not a fool. If we were scared of challenging arguments, she would be banned. Yet we’ve approved every single one of her comments so far, and I for one plan to continue to approve them unless she gets ridiculously mean and trollish.

        You are not welcome at LW, and the more you hurl accusations and pester me, the more you reinforce my distaste for you. You are a deceptive troll and as such, I won’t approve your comments.

      • mike

        Debbie’s agreements are idiotic. of course muslims have been killed by islamophobes/muslimphobes. only a fool would say such a thing.
        how have I been deceptive?

      • mike

        who are the other mods?

      • Ilisha

        All permanent contributing writers. At least that’s how it was in WordPress, where I could see who approved or rejected a comment. Disqus doesn’t have that feature. I assume the admin has the same setup now.

      • mike

        other than garibaldi, you are the only person I’ve ever seen with the gray square saying mod, next to their name.
        jsb is not a mod. Mehdi is not a mod. who else is a mod?
        you say that is the way it was at wordpress but that diqus doesn’t have that feature but then say you assume it is the same set up now. see. that doesn’t even make sense. this is why you fear me. you lack any logic. it is not me who flatters myself, but you who flatter me with your fear.
        ‘enjoin the good and forbid the evil’ free speech is clearly evil in your book.
        so you hate the cesspool that is America? but you were in Tunisia and you elected to return to America? why is that?

      • Ilisha

        There is no logical error on my part. We once had the WordPress comment system and in that system, it was easy for me to see which mod had handled a comment. I saw the names of all or most of the permanent (not guest) contributors. We have since switched to Disqus, where I can no longer see this information. However, the admin set up our comment permission in both cases, so I have no reason to think he changed the scheme. I haven’t confirmed for certain whether or not this is true because I don’t handle the administration of the site and I don’t care.

        Garibaldi and I are the main mods. We pop in frequently on a daily basis. That doesn’t mean we’re the only people with mod access. Maybe you’ll get lucky and an infrequent mod will not recognize you as a troll and let one of your comments through. Garibaldi and I have more or less the same opinion of you.

        I was born and raised in the US and am under no obligation to like every aspect of this culture, nor am I obliged to move. I’m free to express my distaste for the prevailing moral decadence and social decay as much as I like. I also described as an impoverished version of France. Why would I want to move there?

      • mike

        so who are the permanent contributors? not Mehdi, right? he is a guest.

        “doesn’t mean we’re the only people with mod access” so who else has mod access? micheal elwood? it is a simple question. why do you fear answering it.

        “Garibaldi and I have more or less the same opinion of you” alright then. good to know. birds of a feather, right.

        no one said you are under any obligation. I just thought, given your great distain for your birth country, you would want to move to an Islamic country, even an impoverished version of france would be better. I quess not. I hear great things about Pakistan over on thenation.

        so what do you think of morocco? turkey?

        what did you think of the attempted gay pride parade in Istanbul? praise allah for the water cannon?

      • Ilisha

        Turkey, or perhaps Jordan. I’ve at one time or another considered relocating to both of these countries.

        I’m not a supporter of “gay pride” marches. Turkey is a sovereign nation, and they don’t have to allow this behavior. No one was injured. They were deterred, and I don’t have a problem with that.

      • mike

        you sure that guy in the yellow pants wasn’t injured? yes, we all know turkey is a sovereign nation. so when the swiss banned minarets, well one canton did, you responded with – ‘they are a sovereign nation’? when the French banned the veil, you said what? so if someone was injured, then what? it goes from good to bad?
        you know turkey has legalized prostitution?

      • Ilisha

        Yes, actually, I have. You should have watched my debate on HP, where I said I agree the UK can make whatever laws they like, even if they curtail the free expression of Muslims. And when they do, the silver lining is we can hope they SHUT UP about what a bastion of freedom they are and stop using that as an excuse to bomb other people’s lands.

        Just because Americans have decided to give a moral seal of approval to every conceivable perversion doesn’t mean the rest of the world has to follow suit. I would be okay with same reaction if Turkish women hold a “Slut Walk.” Some people believe a traditional social order is worth preserving.

        Furthermore, I think countries should be held accountable for the promises they make. If the US says they are going to support homosexual marriage, then if they don’t, they can reasonably be criticized. Countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia have made no such promises. Obviously they can be criticized as well–any country can be–but calling someone out on failing to live up to their own ideals one thing, and questioning the ideals they have established in the first place is another.

        If the West wants to go on saying they’re the ultimate champions of individual freedom, then let them act accordingly or be exposed as liars and hypocrites.

      • mike

        wow. you have a terrible memory. but that is alright. you know what Nietzsche said: ‘blessed are the forgetful, for they get the better of even their blunders’. I saw your debate on harry’s place and you only said that after I called you out on your hypocrisy

        the UK is no bastion of freedom.

        yes, we all know you hate feminism. turn the water cannon on the sluts.

        “but calling someone out on failing to live up to their own ideals one thing, and questioning the ideals they have established in the first place is another.” more semantics. what does that even mean. if one sets a high ideal but doesn’t live up to it, they are worse than those who set a low ideal and achieve it?
        ‘the west’ is, how should I say this, not a monolith.

      • Ilisha

        I saw your debate on harry’s place and you only said that after I called you out on your hypocrisy

        Not really. I’ve said similar things many times, outside of that debate. An example:

        The point is not that Canada shouldn’t establish laws as they see fit. The debate we’re having is about whether or not these laws are really meant to keep law and order and improve society, or they are largely redundant and meant to capitalize on, and possibly expand, anti-Muslim sentiment.

        Nevertheless, with regard to your ill-fitting comparisons, countries that carry on about how tolerant and enlightened they are, they can reasonably be asked to practice what they preach. If Western countries want to become intolerant, then the silver lining should be that we don’t have to listen to them boast incessantly about their superior “Western values,” nor should we have to listen to them criticize those have joined in “intolerance” for being “intolerant.” And mercifully, we shouldn’t have to worry anymore about the West spreading those discarded “Western values” to places like Iraq through military force.

        You can’t be logically consistent and have it both ways.

        http://www.loonwatch.com/2015/03/if-stephen-harper-is-serious-about-criminalising-barbaric-cultural-practices-then-he-should-arrest-himself-for-even-suggesting-it/comment-page-2/#comment-287428

      • Ilisha

        And another example:

        Right, but the West is always on about “religious freedom” and how their tolerance makes them superior to everyone else. Saudi Arabia never makes such claims. I think people grow tired of the hypocrisy.

        If France wants to pass a series of intolerant laws curtailing freedom of religion, then we should at least be spared the holy-than-thou lectures.

        http://www.loonwatch.com/2014/10/paris-opera-expels-veiled-woman-during-performance/comment-page-1/#comment-275600

        This is a consistent talking point. Maybe it’s you who has a poor memory?

      • mike

        let me see if I follow you. Saudi Arabia, a devout Islamic country, never makes any claims about freedom of religion. but I’m constantly told islam has freedom of religion. as your boy Mehdi referenced earlier, 2:256 let there be no compulsion in religion. – so which is it? the Pakistanis aren’t hypocrites because of ordinance XX? in turkey they aren’t hypocrites because they turn a water cannon on a gay guy, because they told him he couldn’t march. when the OIC calls for an international blasphemy law, they aren’t hypocrites, because they never said they believe in freedom of speech.
        let me ask you this. does islam call for freedom of religion or not?

      • Ilisha

        Are you still here?

        In fact, the Saudis are hypocrites but for different reasons. I’m not impressed with the Saudi regime portraying themselves as the vanguards of Islam when in reality they will knock down some priceless Islamic landmark to make way for a public toilet. The Saudi regime was hypocritical and devious back when they made secret pacts with Israel while publicly denouncing Zionism. They have solved that problem by openly backing Zionists. I have little use for the Saudi regime. But NO, they are NOT hypocritical when it comes to boasting about how devoted they are to “freedom and democracy.”

        As for freedom of religion, Islam in my view is neither as stifling as the bigots insist, nor as free as Western liberals want is to be. Islamic thought is different. It will NEVER pass the sniff test in secular, liberal thought, and as far as I’m concerned, that’s a good thing.

        maybe kind of make it clear that if they do convert, things will be easier for them. they won’t have to pay that extra tax thing.

        I find it hilarious people are always on about jizya. As if we don’t pay taxes in modern states. Muslims paid zakat and non-Muslims paid jizya, which was for protection. Keep in mind the modern nation state didn’t come about for centuries. What modern Muslim-majority country still charges jizya? I don’t know of one. But if there is ever a khilafah, charging jizya would not necessarily make people worse off. It would be hard to beat the modern greed-based American economic system when it comes to savaging the common people, regardless of their religious affiliation.

      • mike

        yeah I’m still here. did you think I died? a muslim but a curse on me asking allah to kill me in September of 2013, but it doesn’t seem to have kicked in yet.

        yeah I’ve never heard the Saudis say they support freedom and democracy. obviously they don’t support either.

        “It will NEVER pass the sniff test in secular, liberal thought, and as far as I’m concerned, that’s a good thing.” so you aren’t a fan of freedom of religion. noted. that explains why you don’t find it disconcerting that 100s of millions of muslims support death to apostates.

        people are always on about jizya because it is a poor concept. “non-Muslims paid jizya, which was for protection” yeah, the mob collects ‘protection money’ too. abu bakr would have made a good godfather.

        yes, no modern Islamic country currently collects a jizya. that is why it is troubling to see muslims trying to bring it back. progress was being made, but now some want to reverse it.

        “savaging the common people” what in the world are you talking about. the ‘common people’ in America have one of the highest standards of living in the world. the muslim countries in the world, save those sitting on tons of oil, are some of the poorest in the world. you just said that Tunisia is an impoverished version of france.

      • Ilisha

        Your opinion of jizya is just that, for what it’s worth.

        No, I’m not aligned with the Western notion of unbridled individual freedom. I’ve already aaid that previously. I’m in favor of balancing individual rigjts against preserving a social order. The world is not a binary where there has to be absolute freedom or absolute tyranny. The Western concept of individual freedom leaves no room for nuance.

        Why is Tunisia an impverished version of France? Because the French colonized and plundered that land. The West has been unjustly enriched at the expense of others, and that theft continues, albeit through more sophisticated means.

        Let’s not conflate the matter of quantity veese sharing. Yes, the US pie is big but the rich eat most of it. I would like to see a more fair system.

      • mike

        so Jekyll have you considered Jordan or turkey vs new York?

      • Ilisha

        “doesn’t mean we’re the only people with mod access” so who else has mod access? micheal elwood? it is a simple question. why do you fear answering it.

        I don’t answer because I DON’T KNOW. I have explained to you, repeatedly, that I am not involved with the administration of the site. Why can’t you understand this concept?

        I have limited access, which allows me to post articles and moderate comments. I can’t see the list of other mods, or of profiles on the whitelist or blacklist. I DO NOT CARE about the details. I do the job I volunteered for and that’s all. I don’t quiz the admin about the details.

      • mike

        was that hard to say…I don’t know there their names. obviously you know garibaldi and her opinion of me.

        ‘I am not involved with the administration of the site.’ what? you are a moderator. of course you are involved in the administration of the site.
        lol. you post articles and moderate comments, how is that not part of the administration of the site. so in the years that you have been doing this, have you ever noticed another person, besides you and garibaldi, with gray rectangle the says Mod in it next to their name?
        so why do you do your job by blocking my comments? if it is not fear, then what?

      • Ilisha

        Not really. Administrator is a specific role. I’m not assigned to that role. I’m a contributor and a moderator. As such, I am involved in writing/editing/posting articles and approving/deleting comments.

        I am NOT involved in addressing prod support issues, minding any info or tips systems, managing templates or plug ins, changing graphics or other design elements, updating servers, coordinating hosting services, parceling out access to mods, profiles, etc. These are admin functions.

      • mike

        lol. your semantics are second to none.
        so why do you block my comments?

      • Ilisha

        Because I don’t like you.

      • mike

        clearly you are of a high intellect. sure you don’t mean, because I have coodies? that is quite the explanation.

      • Ilisha

        Yes, it’s because you have cooties. That’s the reason. And I’m afraid of you too. Cooties and fear. You have your answer.

      • mike

        see. you know how it is spelled.
        sarcasm, I love it. but it is the last bastion of defense for those who realize they are defending the indefensible. yes, I just made that up. booya…
        kind of like saying you would be happy if all muslims would kill apostates and eat puppies, while defending the views that muslims hold on killing apostates.
        good morning Mehdi. nice of you to join us. hang on. is that ‘creepy’? lol. ….wait, laughing out loud, now that was creepy. bam..hit it with some turmeric.

      • mike

        Mehdi, are you a supporter of gay pride marches?

      • mike

        Jekyll is here. with his private account. how scared can one man be?

      • mike

        × We are unable to post your comment because you have been blocked by Loonwatch.com. Find out more.
        what does this mean?

      • Ilisha

        I would have thought “blocked by Loonwatch.com” would cause your comments to automatically bounce without showing up pending. But they do show up pending, which is why I assumed you were NOT actually blocked. Maybe I’m making a wrong assumption about how Disqus works.

        I’m not able to see the whitelist or blacklist, so I can’t say if you’ve been blacklisted (blocked).

        If you’re that interested in finding out exactly what this message means, I’d suggest you ask Disqus.

      • mike

        different accounts. this mike is [email protected] – currently not ‘officially’ blocked. the one (among others) that gets the message ‘blocked by loonwatch’ is my brighthouse email. log out of Disqus and log back in using the email [email protected] with the password allah1234. then try to comment on loonwatch. you will get the message about being blocked. it is that simple. it doesn’t matter what you can see. although you can see IP addresses. after my first account was blocked you said to me, ‘I can see your IP address’ after I created a new account with a different email.
        when you click on the ‘find out more’ link. Disqus says that it is the website that is blocking you, not them.

      • Ilisha

        I can see IP addresses, and it IS the website that blocks you. But it is not *ME* personally who has blocked some of your sock puppets on LW, as I don’t have the access level necessary to block someone on that site. This really isn’t that complex.

      • mike

        again, whether my account is ‘technically’ blocked or not doesn’t matter.
        it is *YOU* who doesn’t let my comments through. you have said it several times. now why are you so concerned to make that point that *YOU* don’t have the access necessary to block someone. it doesn’t matter. obviously this isn’t that complex. you don’t allow me to comment because you are scared.
        btw, I still don’t now what sock puppets means. yes, I know you didn’t invent the term, but you are fond of using it. so what does it mean.

      • Ilisha

        I’ve already explained to you that I consider you a troll who does not add to the discussion. I don’t believe you’re there to engage in good faith. I find you creepy and obsessive. And it really doesn’t matter WHY anyway. If you would like to believe the reason if that I’m afraid of you, then by all means, go on believing.

        The bottom line is that we approve comments at our discretion, period. As long as I’ve been there, I’ve been perfectly transparent regarding this policy, and I don’t expect it to change.

      • mike

        lol. I’m creepy and obsessive. alright boss. you are hilarious. of course it matters why. and your why is silly. as to be expected.
        yes you have made it quite clear. no one has ever accused you of not being transparent in you hypocrisy.

      • Ilisha

        You are not as your comments continue to plague the pending folder. If you were actually blacklisted, I wouldn’t see them at all, I believe.

      • HerrSkolly

        Mmm … puppies … with Hollandaise. 😉

  • SOMEGUY7893 .

    Are India and Indonesia no longer things? Because they have most of the Muslim population.

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  • Tark Purush

    Why people need to even trust ISLAM? your article sound that Islam is correct and fair religion while it’s only an understanding issue.
    In fact it’s a faith of terrorism. Islam is not a religion. It should be banned in entire earth.

    Biggest problem is countries like India which are facing Islamic menace from a thousand years have submitted and compromised with their atrocities. A real step should start with banning Islam in all non Muslims countries first. Stop giving Visas to Muslims unless they convert to some human- religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity.
    France, USA, Britain are now also following India and compromising their national security to entertain some muslims for vote banks?

  • JO_QWERTY

    *Van Gogh. Grandson of the painter.

  • Michael

    Here we go again, my hart goes off to French people today…..how many have to die before we stop and face the fact that islam is a barbaric medieval ideology that has no place in a modern progressive society, islam not compatible with modern values.

    Btw, criticizing islam is not racist! islam is not a race, it’s an ideology a belief that is self imposed (you chose it) or imposed by others that modern world needs to collectively reject. We need a courage to address the elephant in the room. Time for political correctness is over.

  • OldRet

    Every Muslim will tell you that Sharia law supercedes the constitution.

  • Peter Wang

    There is nothing more gratifying than to see a progressive left journalist finally hit the wall of reality, and slide down it. I commend the author for his honesty, but it is a realization born out of denial that has slipped away. The author is nearly there, but still loathe to let go of the last vestiges of false belief, as in the quandary of the certain knowledge that one has to let go of an addictive and toxic love relationship, that the heart demands we remain in. It is true, that there is no Islamic nation in the Middle East with the qualities listed by the writer; however, there is one nation. It is Israel. And look how the progressive left treat that country.

    The notion that there are millions of moderate Muslims in the world is a fiction created by the progressive left, because they want it to be so; it has nothing to do with reality. There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim, there are only Muslims. This absurd notion of the moderate Muslim is founded on Western progressive dogma, not on Islamic ideals. It comes from a complete misunderstanding of Islam, which is a political system, not simply a religion. It is a system based on the Koran, which promotes an odious ideology.

    During the Second World War, we were faced with two equally reprehensible systems; one in the West and one in the East. No one supporting the Allies doubted during that time, that complete annihilation of both systems was required in order to ensure that neither regime ever again became a threat to humankind. That is to say, it required a commitment to total war in order to achieve the objective. That commitment is currently lacking in Western society, and irresponsibly so.

    The cold hard truth is, that until the West comes to the point of that commitment, and I believe it eventually will, Islamic terrorism will flourish and grow into world conflict. Now in fact is the time to do it, because less lives will be lost currently than in the future, and particularly when Islam obtains nuclear weapons. The mere fact of a nuclear Iran makes my blood run cold.

    What is required is commitment to the total destruction of Islam in all its forms and manifestations; in the same way that Islam has no qualms about the total destruction of Western Society, its freedoms and its systems. It has been suggested that the West should start with the absolute destruction of Mecca and Medina, and move out from there; in the same way that Islam moved to destroy Western icons such as the Twin Towers and other sites. Mecca and Medina are holy sites of Islam, and their destruction is a purposeful attack upon its central matrix. We also need to make some hard but necessary political decisions at home with respect to immigration, policies and laws against Islam and its practices. This is essential for our survival and our way of life. There is one country in the world that has no Islamic issues; that is Japan. Why? It’s because of its policies and laws against Islam. And American left-wing progressive style polices are not tolerated there either. Japan is a model for Western democracies in this regard. See http://chersonandmolschky.com/2015/04/13/islamic-terrorism-japan/

  • DNA

    The thing is here as in most western media people fail to tell the whole story. There are more Muslims killed by terrorism than westerners. There are more Muslims killed by western ‘collateral damage” than westerners in the last 3 decades or since the war on terror began.

    Western propaganda fails to state just how many Muslim women and children they regularly kill and of course we only get the one sided Paris story whereas the west is bombing and killing Muslims daily which we never hear about.

    You kill Muslims and they will fight back and kill you. All ‘s fair in love and war although the west refuses to acknowledge it is at war and tries to deceive its gullible, naive followers that there’s only the terrorist attacking innocent westerners for no reason except they don’t like our freedom. Really? Who’s been dropping bombs on Iraq, Afhganistan and Pakistan for the last 2 decades obliterating Muslim civilians??

    The west are ruthless butchers with their drones and so called ‘collateral damage’ and westerners are fool enough to accept anything that wears a uniform and has the Stars and Stripes printed on it as legitimate to kill and terrorise innocent people!!

    America is the most corrupt nation politically on earth. It has nuked two cities, used Agent Orange in a war and uranium shells as well. I am not a Muslim but a westerner yet I consider Americans barbaric as they kill and destroy like it’s all a video game and have no feelings for the people they massacre daily yet when one of their own get killed we hear about it all over the world. Boo hoo hoo!!

    I’ve got news for all the sons of bitches everywhere. Americans are not the only ones on this planet. There are other humans too who are sick of having the Saddams and Mubarak’s and Shah’s of Iran installed by the CIA to oppress their people. America is hated for very good reason because it is a big hypocrite. Preaching human rights then committing war crimes such as bombing hospitals.

    It was the Americans who invaded Iraq on false pretences not the other way round. If America want to manipulate and run middle eastern affairs then they can expect a backlash because they do not own the world and people are sick and tired of America trying to tell every nation on earth what it should or should not be doing.

    Americans do not view other people as human beings. They are the most racist nation on earth always mistreating their own blacks then attacking the coloured nations of the earth.

    One day America will no longer dictate to the world and we will have a just and fair system. Americans sicken me with ‘we are the victims’ mentality when it is them who are bombing the crap out of Muslim nations not just terrorists and have been doing this for over 2 decades.

    Wake up people. There are two sides to every conflict and so long as America and her cronies bomb the Middle East the Middle East will send suicide bombers to their cities.

    Or do you guys live in the fairytale world where the White House tells you you are the goodies and all others are baddies??? There is only ONE HUMANITY. We are all human. But racism and nationalism teaches it’s ok to kill those who are different. What a lie. Its fellow humans killing fellow humans and is DISGUSTING on both sides.

    Pity some people can’t understand that terrorism is caused by millions of innocent Muslims being killed at the hands of western invasions and sanctions, women and children. The west doesn’t like it when they get terrorised yet doesn’t think twice about terrorising Muslims.

    What blatant hypocrisy. To say Muslims are all evil while America is bombing the crap out of Innocent people. American low life’s need to wake up that westerners are the tiniest number dying here but get the most publicity. The western media will never publish the atrocities committed by America towards Muslims.

    It’s a joke that people come on these forums pretending that only one side is attacking the other and all westerners are ‘innocent victims’ when the truth and reality is America first invaded Muslim countries and established bases in their Holy Cities.

    There are TWO sides killing each other and BOTH are committing war crimes and BOTH are baddies.

    The $trillions the USA spends on war makes me wonder why they don’t spend the money own citizens instead?????

    The outright lies here that only one side is committing atrocities beggars belief. How many millions of Muslims have suffered and died under western sanctions which in the end were trumped up lies?? Compare that to how many westerners have been killed in terrorist attacks? A few thousand at most.

    Muslims don’t have the sophisticated weaponry that the Americans have but it is shameful that America and Co all they’re interested in is fighting wars. From Vietnam to North Korea to Iraq it’s as if America is addicted to war. What about world peace? When is America ever going to raise the call for world peace? Why is war always on America’s agenda but never peace?

    The world is sick to death of American Cowboys always stirring up trouble somewhere. Always lighting a fire. The Ukraine war began because the CIA overthrew the friendly Ukraine govt. When will America just stop MEDDLING???

    We want peace and war mongering America is the obstacle to peace. The world is sick to death of American Cowboys who all they know is to nuke cities and use drones against innocents. What America and Americans shamefully don’t know anything about is how to create peace. I suppose it’s bad for business. That’s capitalism for you. The more wars the more guns sold and America is the number one gun nation one earth.

    George Bush began this tit for tat war against Sunnis and it’ll never end until something really very bad happens. It would be easier to try and forge peace now than have a west vs east war. America should have learned from their civil war that the only solution is to unite not destroy each other.

    On lying. You gullible, naive fools really think the American admin tells the truth to its public? America lies, Muslims lies what’s new??

  • HoodooTexas

    The problem with Islam is not the terrorism, that is merely a symptom of a deeper problem within the practice of the “faith”. Terrorism grows out of a much harder to see daily practice of Islam, at home and in Mosques, and that daily practice is the problem. The practice of Islam is the preservation of a Man-Cult of voluntary ignorance that is vulnerable to radicalism as well as the subjugation of women.
    We can suppress terrorism to some extent after it rises but it not solving the problem. It’s a solvable problem, we just have to get past our bad habit of overtolerance.

  • cambrdige_unitedkingdom

    I know you people like you DONT CARE ABOUT STATISTICS, in your heart you have
    decided that you hate all muslims and even if statistics point the other way you will ignore them.

    Turkey has legalised same sex couples since 1858 and again in 1923 (search lgbt turkey for wiki page and sources). Christians openly practice their faith in turkey. And the UN classes turkey as number 72 in the world in terms of gender inequality (lower number means women have more rights). Admittedly this is really poor but turkey are doing better than mexico 74 and brazil 75 (search united nations gender inequality index). But lower than iran 69. Although this stat isnt great as it only looks at birth rate, education, and jobs and not the wage gap or other aspects of equaliy / womens rights.

    I know that most of you will probably ignore this, and continue to criticise all muslims as being racist bigots.

    I know that you wont’ change your article to admit there is at least ONE muslim country which isnot backwards.

    More muslims live in indonesia than in the WHOLE of the middle east.
    Ever heard of an indonesian terrorist? No.
    Only one in five muslims live in the mid east.
    Why are you painting everybody with the same brush?

    • Riza

      Ever heard of the Bali bombing and the suicide bomber in Jakarta just last month? Yes, they are Indonesian Islamic terrorists.

  • Shmalkandik

    Appalled by its many atrocities, many civilized have begun to support the sentiment “Death to Islam”. Rightly so, for is Is Death. It is Death to Women, Death to Dissenters, Death to any one guilty of un-Islamic activity. Communism killed more peasants and workers than any other system yet known. So to, Islam kills more practicing Muslims than any other faith or belief yet known. By killing Islam, we will save millions of lives, not excluding those of Muslims.

    I call upon the civilized people of the world to join in the great war against Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Queda, ISIS, and Iran’s Mullah’s – in short , make every day one of “Death to Islam”. Make it part of you greetings, phone calls, emails, Facebook pages, and post the sentiment in as many places as possible. Let your response be to any effort to defend this evil belief, this Islam, with hale and hearty shout “Death to Islam”.. And when we are shouting “Death to Islam” on every possible occasion, in all locations, and at all times, then we can hope to live to see the day when Islam is no more.

    Best wishes, and Death to Islam.

  • Shmalkandik

    I suppose some people who consider themselves supporters of social reform, automatically support Muslims coming from countries formerly occupied by Europeans in the Colonial period. But, just because some one was oppressed does not automatically make them fine fellows. The post-colonial Arab states have been, without exception, dictatorships. They are NOT an improvement upon the previous Colonial governments – rather the opposite. Marx famously supported France when it invaded and subjugating various African states, because it introduced to these people progressive European concepts such as rules of law, equality under law, and economic growth. He knew some things that most people calling themselves Progressive seem to have forgotten. Calling a position Progressive does not make it so: it is critical not to mistake words for things.

  • Rick Shonsite

    End Islam. Then you won’t need any more excuses.

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