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How Conspiracy Nuts Are Duping Well-Meaning Liberals

IMG_66829683434449As you know, I have a very low opinion of conspiracy nuts and the media personalities who cater to their delusions, like Alex Jones. And while many people on the left like to say that insane ideas like Obama is a time-traveling, shape-shifting reptile from another dimension are confined solely to the paranoid, right-wing fringe, they’re wrong.

Take, for example, the very popular Facebook page The Mind Unleashed, which has almost 2.5 million “likes,” and there’s nothing conservative about it at all. You won’t find racially tinged tirades against immigrants or dogwhistles about “urban people” and food stamps. You won’t see quotes from Sarah Palin, Allen West or even Alex Jones. Instead, these pages go with a subtle approach and draw people to them, then slowly slip in their agenda. Using images with quotes from John Lennon, Albert Einstein, George Carlin or Robin Williams that they’ve collected from around the Internet, The Mind Unleashed has built up a very large and devoted audience.

“So, what’s the deal with The Mind Unleashed?” you might ask. Well, when you have an audience and reach like this, there’s quite a bit of money to be made from advertising and merchandise by appealing to the left, which is exactly what they are doing.

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The Mind Unleashed, NaturalNews and others like them pose as science and education pages when they actually disseminate pseudoscience and utter bullshit, for profit. Go to the links that they post and then search on those websites for articles concerning vaccines, fluoridated water, GMOs and if you’re feeling really adventurous, chemtrails. Yes, the batshit crazy idea that somehow our government has been spraying the US population with chemicals from jet engine exhausts to make them dumb and subservient for decades – they cover it, a lot.

Do the owners of the pages that publish these lunatic stories actually believe in what they’re posting? I’d venture to guess that they and people like Alex Jones really don’t. Chances are that they take the money made from advertising on their websites and spend it on non-organic food and modern medicine (including vaccines), all the while laughing at those who are gullible enough to take what they share as factual.

Unlike Infowars, which many people know makes little effort to hide their crackpot ideas, pages like The Mind Unleashed and WorldTruth.tv are far more subtle, at least on the surface. But dig down a little deeper as I have suggested and you’ll find Holocaust denialism and other anti-Semitism in addition to the usual vaccine conspiracies or government mind control or weather control stories.

Instead of blaming the problems our country faces on gerrymandering, voter apathy and unlimited money in politics, these sites blame wacky conspiracies. They encourage people to open or free their minds which really means to abandon educated skepticism and critical thinking and embrace pseudoscience and fantasy instead. Again, these aren’t right-wing prepper sites trying to sell overpriced survivalist gear or books. Pages like The Mind Unleashed or WorldTruth.tv are aimed firmly at the left and once they get you hooked on one kooky idea – like vaccines are plot to depopulate the planet – then they can introduce you to other insane stories and further line their pockets with advertising or merchandise dollars. Just think of it like a gateway drug to the world of anti-Semitism, chemtrails and lizard people.

It’s easy to point fingers at the some of the gun nuts and their crazy stories, but sadly, we see people on the left share stories based on utterly nonsensical, discredited hypotheses like the anecdotal “Amish don’t vaccinate” story and outright falsehoods like chemtrails all too often. You cannot claim Creationists are stupid for believing that the Earth is only 6,000 years old but then state that the flu vaccine gives you the flu, when in fact the injection contains dead viruses which have zero chance of causing an actual infection. You cannot say that conservatives are morons for believing that Obama is going to send UN special forces door to door to seize guns when you’re sharing false information from the left’s version of Infowars or collective-evolution.com yourself.

So what am I suggesting that you do? Be careful as to what you like or share on social media. Take a minute or two to see what a Facebook page is actually promoting instead of blindly sharing an image with a quote on it that you like. I’ve seen far too many large, otherwise reputable pages pass these pictures on without realizing they’re inadvertently advertising entities that are actually counter-productive to the liberal/progressive cause. And finally, if you or someone you know subscribes to these pages, clicking “unlike” or warning those who do is a great first step.


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  • JGISD

    WOW. You have to be stupid to not understand the basic mechanism by which “dead” flue virus can indeed give you the flu.

    If you’re going to bitch about the idiocy of others, at least do research at actual health sites before posting your own idiocies.

    • BDavid

      Spelling it flue don’t inspire confidence

      • Marilyn Olsen Scheffler

        “doesn’t” not “don’t”

      • BDavid

        Kinda the joke

      • FD Brian

        I see what you did there.

      • Paul M

        Don’t you see what he done there?

      • waltinseattle

        fing diversionists got you surrounded. wstch your heels. little nippers are pesky dat whey

      • waltinseattle

        that is a frigging imcomplete sentence, sweetheart.

      • Bryon Anderson

        complaining about a word you obviously know makes you out to be an attention seeker

    • Are you seriously posting anti-vaxxer shit here? Under this article?

      Kudos to you on your balls, but take it away again +2 for illustrating just what the author is talking about.

      Have a nice day.

    • Daniel Tabor

      I’ve never seen anyone claim that vaccinations give anyone polio, cholera or rabies. If dead flu viruses “can indeed give you the flu,” the same would be true of other viral vaccines that most commonly use “dead” viruses as their base.

      And I’m not even going to claim you have to be stupid to not understand the basic mechanisms by which vaccines work. But I can say you must be ignorant of how viruses work to say that dead ones can reproduce, propagate and infect a host.

      • sparkkeh

        There *is* flumist – which uses attenuated (weakened) live virus and isn’t given to people with weakened immune systems who can then get the flu (tho usually a mild case). Also, people are mostly idiots who think “three days of feeling a little under the weather and kind of achy due to normal immune system activation” is the same thing as “i caught the flu from a vaccine” – these are people who have never actually had INFLUENZA – which leaves you on your back whimpering in pain as every air molecule slams into your skin with little knives, your fever so high the room spins when you sit up, hardly able to swallow liquids in between coughing and sucking for air like there’s no room in your lungs. They’re the same people who think that vomiting & diarrhea (i hate that word, never could spell it LOL) – stomach flu – is prevented by the vaccine, and since they get “stomach flu” even though they had the flu shot that the shot is defective. TL:DR? PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS.

      • buricco

        The stomach flu isn’t actually flu though. (But I figure you knew that.)

        I usually refer to it, euphemistically, as “the 24-hour bug”.

      • John E. Conway

        Most cases are actually mild food poisoning.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Yes, that’s exactly what she’s saying – that people who get a flu shot and then get “stomach flu” claim the shot didn’t work, when technically and actually, they didn’t have influenza at all.

      • waltinseattle

        they prefer not to dwell on how the influenza epidemics were handled. but then…that was abrogatiom of personal unbridled freedom and past instances of shoot on sight would undermine the thesis of “its all going downhill..”.fema trains etcetc.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Excatly why I get a shot every year. I’ve had real influenza, and I NEVER EVER want to get it again. EVER.

      • buricco

        Actually, I have heard people claim that one of the two major types of polio vax can actually cause polio. (The attenuated virus kind as opposed to the killed virus kind.)

      • Scott Furciniti

        But just because you’ve heard people claim it doesn’t mean it’s true, correct?

      • buricco

        It neither necessarily means that it is or isn’t true. The parent post had stated that he had never heard of such a claim; I was replying to that by saying I had heard of such a claim, without making any statement as to my opinion of its veracity.

      • Scott Furciniti

        Thank you for clarifying. I hope you can see how your comment may have been misconstrued.

      • waltinseattle

        see my above about bad suppliers offshore. early im poloo vaccine thete were some issues until proceedures were codified. its like with the anti psych variety who dredge out 1930 and the era of e.c.t. with car jumper current levrls and talk of “literally melt the brain.”

      • buricco

        I have personal issues with psychiatrists, but that’s another story and has to do with me double-checking what a script was for before going to get it filled and finding out I got prescribed 2 things that weren’t supposed to be prescribed together.

      • JGISD

        Our bodies are incapable of distinguishing between live viruses and dead viruses, and immediately jump into action producing antibodies to fight any invasive substance. For those in perfect health, that poses little risk, but for the 80% of Westerners who face compromised immune systems, the risks include death and immune systems spiraling hopeless out of control.

        I’m not an anti-vaxer, but the flu vaccine in particular is one that is far over-prescribed, without first giving those receiving the shots accurate data. Look on the CDC website for instance, and you will see non-stop claims about how deaths are not widespread, and how side effects are “generally” minor, yet their information completely ignores the wide-range of secondary effects that are directly triggered by the shots in anyone with immune systems that are already overactive. It is that direct attack on our immune systems that opens the door for flu and other viruses to take hold. With those with compromised immune systems, it is our bodies attacking things they should not be attacking that represents the greatest risk. Controlling that mechanism is crucial, and flu vaccinations often send the reaction out of control. Of course, those who are harmed from reactions to flu shots are never listed as being harmed by the vaccinations themselves, because that’s not how the mechanism works. It’s not a direct cause-effect relation, but that doesn’t make it any less harmful.

        Estimates are that 40% of those receiving the shots are exposed to greater risk of harm than if they had simply taken common sense measures to avoid contact with other carriers. If you have auto-immune issues, the shot WILL make you sick, it’s all a question of when and how severely. Group immunity is a good thing, but flu vaccinations are a poorly executed solution.

        BTW, if the best argument of people is to pick on an obvious typo, then THEY are a better part of the problem.

      • JR

        You’re really uneducated on the subject. Please stop trying to pretend to be a self-made expert and leave it to the health professionals such as myself. You don’t get influenza from the vaccine. Ignorance spreads like fire, let’s put it out before it starts.

      • Paul M

        I don’t think JGSID is saying that you get flu from the flu vaccine…

      • JGISD

        “You don’t get influenza from the vaccine.”

        And I’ve never claimed that you do. My exact words were “You have to be stupid not to understand the basic mechanism by which “dead” flu virus can indeed give you the flu.”

        Here it is, in case you skipped class that day:

        Flu vaccines force the body to react to the virus as if it’s alive. Without that reaction, the vaccine would be pointless. That sends our immune systems into overdrive, and it is that compromise to our immune system that often allows LIVE flu viruses we come into contact with to take hold. Thus, it is the vaccine itself which CAUSES the flu in a high percentage of those who take it. An indirect cause, but a trackable cause-effect relationship nonetheless.

        I’m not arguing against vaccines, but I have no intention of letting uninformed idiocy pass as facts. If you are indeed a health professional, go do a little more studying before you hurt someone.

      • BioWonk

        80% with compromised immune systems? Then my wife’s practice should be overflowing. Please provide some verifiable evidence from a credible source that substantiates this claim.

      • Brian

        BTW, if the best argument you have is that the CDC is part of a conspiracy, then you are a better part of the problem

      • JGISD

        The CDCs goal is herd immunity. It is in their best interests to withhold any information that subverts that goal, regardless of the cost ton the minority with auto-immune issues. The last entity in the world that I would listen to in the event of an out of control biological pathogen, is the CDC. They aren’t there to protect individuals, they are there to play the odds.

      • RundesNettes

        80%!? Laughable, if it weren’t sad that you believe that.

      • cable1977

        “Our bodies are incapable of distinguishing between live viruses and dead viruses, and immediately jump into action producing antibodies to fight any invasive substance.”

        As someone who actually has been doing immunology research for quite a few years, you clearly don’t understand the biology involved. Of course your body can distinguish between a live virus and a dead virus, primarily because they behave differently.

        A live virus actively invades cells and results in production of different viral proteins intracellularly that can then be presented to the immune system through a variety of mechanisms. There is no such mechanism with an inactivated virus because, well, it’s inactivated and can’t enter cells or replicate. This changes the dynamics of the immune response because the exposure, both in the quality (i.e. types of antigens) and the quantity (i.e. replicating vs. inactivated) of antigens is different between the two scenarios.

        “the 80% of Westerners who face compromised immune systems”

        Please define compromised and provide some peer-reviewed data to back up your assertions. An individual with a reduced immune response (i.e. HIV patient) is at significant risk from a live virus infection, but does not have significant risk from an inactivated vaccine because it is replication deficient.

        “Estimates are that 40% of those receiving the shots are exposed to greater risk of harm”

        Where, precisely, did you derive this figure from?

        “Case in point, those with over-active immune systems develop the flu after receiving a vaccination at a rate 8 times of those without.”

        Since “the flu” requires viral invasion and replication, how does a person with an “over-active” immune system turn an inactivated virus into an activated virus able to infect cells and replicate? Please be sure to be specific in describing the process, detailing the molecular mechanisms that occur.

        You are a PRIME example of what the author of this article is talking about.

        P.S. I think the concerns about your spelling were valid as it does seem to be correlated with your overall lack of understanding of the subject.”

      • JGISD

        “Our bodies are incapable of distinguishing between live viruses and dead viruses”

        It sounds like you missed a few crucial days of medical school. Vaccines work by tricking our bodies into creating antibodies in response to dead viruses. They wouldn’t do this if they were capable of distinguishing between live and dead viruses.

        “Since “the flu” requires viral invasion and replication, how does a person with an “over-active” immune system turn an inactivated virus into an activated virus able to infect cells and replicate?”

        Congratulations on failing Reading Comprehension 101. I didn’t come close to claiming that auto immune issue are capable of turning dead viruses into live ones, but go ahead and continue puking up that arrogance and get it out of your system to allow a little more room for things like education and facts.

        Flu vaccines force the body to react to the virus as if it’s alive. Without that reaction, the vaccine would be pointless. That sends our immune systems into overdrive, and it is that compromise to our immune system that often allows LIVE flu viruses (that anyone with either an underactive or overactive immune system comes into contact with), to take hold.

        That mechanism may sound counterintuitive, but when your body attacks EVERYTHING because it believes those influences are causing it harm, then the body becomes drastically weaker. NOBODY with auto-immune disease (40% of America), should subject themselves to vaccines without considering the substantial risks.

        I hope this explanation sufficiently justifies to your linear uninspired mind that it is the vaccine itself which CAUSES the flu in a high percentage of those who take it. An indirect cause, but a trackable cause-effect relationship nonetheless.

        P.S.: The spelling of “flue” was an auto-correct, not something I typed. Good to see some consistency with your predilection for jumping to unreasonable unjustified conclusions though.

      • cable1977

        “Vaccines work by tricking our bodies into creating antibodies in response to dead viruses. ”

        Here’s a hint, read the second paragraph in my response above. I explained precisely WHY our immune systems can differentiate between live and dead viruses. They induce different immune responses because the pathogens behave differently. Why are you only choosing to focus on one aspect of an immune response, antibodies, why ignoring everything else? Oh yea, because all the other parts of a response make your claim fall apart faster than a house of cards in a hurricane.

        “I didn’t come close to claiming that auto immune issue are capable of turning dead viruses into live ones”

        You claimed that vaccines cause “the flu” more in autoimmune people. Since, by definition, a disease requires infection with a live virus, the only way you could make such a claim is if you are going to state that . If you wanted to state that a person develops gets the flu from other souces, then that is what you should have said. Don’t blame other people for your inability to property communicate in the English language.

        Also, I’d like to see your evidence that vaccines increase the risk of a flu infection. Since rheumatologists (the doctors of autoimmunity) recommend numerous vaccinations for their patients, I’m not sure your arguments hold much weight in the absence of evidence. You seem to make a great deal of claims, but balk anytime someone asks you for a source. Typical of a denialist.

        “That mechanism may sound counterintuitive, but when your body attacks EVERYTHING because it believes those influences are causing it harm”

        Where is the evidence that an autoimmune disease is your body attacking “everything”? Please be sure to list the sources of your evidence. As someone who has spent the last 10+ years researching autoimmunity, I’d be interested to see your list of peer-reviewed sources that make such a claim.

      • waltinseattle

        “common sense measures to avoid..” was where you.lost my receptiveness..utter ridicilous in a modern urban world. sounds great…till one THINKS.

      • waltinseattle

        what has happened is that unregulated overseas compamies not only.cut drugs and contaminate them but they dont “attenuate” thrm well. thus there are outliers of what he mentions. outliers do not condemn the industries big players….except.in conspiracyland

      • JGISD

        Except I’ve not claimed anything close to that, ye of a 5th grade reading comprehension. Flu vaccines force the body to react to the virus as if it’s alive. Without that reaction, the vaccine would be pointless. That sends our immune systems into overdrive, and it is that compromised immune system that often allows LIVE flu viruses we come into contact with to take hold. Thus, it is the vaccine itself which CAUSES the flu in a high percentage of those who take it. An indirect cause, but a trackable cause-effect relationship nonetheless.

        I’m not arguing against vaccines, but I have no intention of letting myopic uninformed idiocy pass as facts.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Well, no. Immune response isn’t like having a bunch of army units that are all sent to one place at the same time, leaving other places undefended. The immune response also does not go into “overdrive” and strip the gears of the rest of the response. If you are saying that the immune response may, while it’s occurring, momentarily, while it’s mounting, leave the body open to attack from… something, I suppose that’s not impossible, but to say that getting a flu vaccination sets up a process that then allows influenza to attack the otherwise immune individual – no, I can’t even write that so it makes sense. You might see it as “a trackable cause-effect relationship” but I don’t. And I don’t recall reading anywhere that it is, let alone in any great percentages.

        I’m also pretty sure that comments like “ye of a 5th grade reading comprehension” and “I have no intention of letting myopic uninformed idiocy pass as facts” help your case, certainly not as much as evidence supporting it might. In fact, you might say that the rest of us also feel that letting myopic uninformed idiocy pass as facts is not why we’re posting, but we see little good in insulting those who disagree with us.

      • JGISD

        “The immune response also does not go into “overdrive” and strip the gears of the rest of the response.”

        You continue to demonstrate with each response exactly how little you understand about auto immune issues. The risk with auto-immunity is the body is incapable of moderating its response. It works at full steam to attack anything it perceives as a threat, and those attacks in turn lead to more attacks in a never ending downward spiral. The very act of being attacked triggers the body to launch more attacks, often against things that that person normally has no issue with. In that state, something as benign as dish washing detergent could end up killing someone suffering from auto-immunity. They needn’t be allergic to dish washing detergent, and there is no predicting which things an auto-immune person will react to. In my case, an agent to dilate the pupils almost did me in.

        The body quickly becomes exhausted, and open to attack from a host of other influences trying to seek advantage, just as it does with someone fighting a virus, for instance. That’s why we make sure that the elderly and the young get their vaccinations, because they lack the ability to fight as well as others, and their bodies quickly become exhausted.

        Someone who is auto-immune and gets a vaccination is actually increasing their likelihood of developing the very problem they took the vaccine to avoid, and the effects of that disease will be far greater to them than to others having a reaction to the vaccine. Those with auto-immunity need to avoid at all costs the very triggering effect that vaccinations use for their success. It’s inviting death. The largest priority of fighting auto-immunity is to stop the downward spiral from starting in the first place. That means no vaccines.

    • 2Smart2bGOP

      And your doctorate is from which university?

      • JGISD

        Cornell. You?

      • Paul M

        Well played sir, very well played.

      • Brian

        He means the John W. Cornell school of Mom’s Basement, but easily confused with that school in Ithaca

      • Paul M

        GUFFAW! HUZZAH!

      • Adam Eraky

        And your Doctorate is in…..? Just curious here.

      • 2Smart2bGOP

        Hmm…..didn’t realize that Cornell offered Ph.D’s in Dumbassery. Interesting curriculum….

      • JGISD

        Cornell. Yours?

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Ah. Now I get it. I had a colleague who went to Cornell Med school, and he apparently also had to take the “how to be a miserable, angry prick and condescendingly aggravate and insult everyone you meet” class as part of his studies. They don’t make you take that one at Harvard, I think because genuine intelligence takes its place, and at Columbia they have a different, though similar course. Perhaps it’s something in the New York water…

      • JGISD

        You not liking facts that don’t fit your predetermined narrative is not my problem.

    • Rhonda Painter

      So, zombie flue (sic) viruses can give you the flu. Please elaborate on the mechanism for that. I could use a good laugh.

      • sparkkeh

        If you have a weak immune system and get flumist instead of the shot, you might be able to get a mild case of the flu.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        JGISD isn’t saying that. He’s saying that ALL flu vaccinations give you flu, or that they can, and do in a high percentage. He’s not talking about flumist.

      • JGISD

        See my response at the top of the thread.

        I’ll be awaiting your apology. right after you’re done laughing like a crazy person.

    • Sandy Lorvig Mathews

      NOPE!! Dead flu virus does NOT give you the flu. Here’s your sign!!

      • JGISD

        See my comments at the top of the thread. Here’s your mirror!!

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        No, but it does cause the body to mount an immune response. Which is the whole point.

      • Sandy Lorvig Mathews

        DUH!

    • Rex

      The injected flu vaccine contains only dead virus and poses zero risk of giving you the flu. There is an alternative version of the vaccine that is inhaled through the nose in which the virus is not completely dead that poses a very SMALL risk of infection. This is what people are thinking of. Most people get the shot, so there is nothing to be afraid of. A dead virus can’t give you an infection any more than a dead bear can eat you.

      • JGISD

        “The injected flu vaccine contains only dead virus and poses zero risk of giving you the flu.”

        That’s not how the mechanism works. See my comments at the top of the thread.

      • cable1977

        That’s exactly how the mechanism works. See my reply to you and read an immunology book or two.

      • JGISD

        Flu vaccines force the body to react to the virus as if it’s alive. Without that reaction, the vaccine would be pointless. That sends our immune systems into overdrive, and it is that compromised immune system that often allows LIVE flu viruses we come into contact with to take hold. Thus, it is the vaccine itself which CAUSES the flu in a high percentage of those who take it. An indirect cause, but a trackable cause-effect relationship nonetheless.

        I’m not arguing against vaccines, but I have no intention of letting myopic uninformed idiocy pass as facts.

    • BioWonk

      I had a 4th grade girl explain to me, in her own words, what is an acellular vaccine and why you cannot get the flu from a flu shot.
      Congratulations, you’ve demonstrated how a 10y/o is better informed than you.

      • JGISD

        Flu vaccines force the body to react to the virus as if it’s alive. Without that reaction, the vaccine would be pointless. That sends our immune systems into overdrive, and it is that compromise to our immune system that often allows LIVE flu viruses we come into contact with to take hold. Thus, it is the vaccine itself which CAUSES the flu in a high percentage of those who take it. An indirect cause, but a trackable cause-effect relationship nonetheless.
        Congratulations, you’ve just put your life at risk by relying on medical advice from a 10 year old child.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        ” it is the vaccine itself which CAUSES the flu in a high percentage of those who take it”

        So since I got the flu several times before I started regularly getting vaccinated, and never once since, I’m an outlier? Can I get a ref to the stats you’re so sure of?

      • JGISD

        Apparently have a problem with logic. Just because “A” is not true does not mean “B” is necessarily true. You should study up on how auto-immune works. You are looking at it through the wrong lens. What you have experienced is not relevant to what someone fighting auto-immunity experiences. Auto-immunity feeds itself. The key to controlling it is to avoid setting off the response. Once you trigger it, including through the trickery of vaccines, there is no going back.

  • onelonesapper

    I would be interested in hearing from the moderator why my comment was not approved as the content did not seem to break any rules that I am aware of.

    • Bryon Anderson

      Doubt you will get an answer I know my comment will be erased also because of the authors last name.

      • Reckless

        Man, you’re dense. “Manny Schewitz?” It’s a joke name, dingbat.

        Moderator, please leave all this fog-brains posts up. They really accentuate this article well.

  • FD Brian

    Anti Vaccers are so misinformed it’s scary to think of the kind of epidemic that could happen because of their beliefs. Imagine all these kids dying, truly a sad ordeal if it were to happen.

    • chichi54

      It’s already happening.

    • Smoktwomore

      I just don’t understand why I should get a flu shot when I haven’t gotten the flu in years. When I did have it I didn’t think it was that bad. I’ve felt more ill several times.

      • Brian

        I think it is fine if you choose not to get a flu shot, that one is pretty much personal choice and focused on those at higher risk. That is not the same as with most vaccines. However, if you were not getting the flu shot because of conspiracy nonsense, that would be bad.

      • Smoktwomore

        I don’t feel there is a conspiracy behind vaccines but I do know a person who has autism but was normal before she received her vaccines at 3. All the doctors they have taken her to said it could be contamination in vaccines or possible mercury from the seal. I’m no expert on vaccines but what I know from a family’s personal experience scares me.

        P.s. She received her vaccines in Southern Africa around 1989

      • Brian

        Except the link between vaccines, mercury, and autism have been conclusively ruled out by research. Those doctors were probably influenced by the paper purporting a link which was so flawed that it was retracted from publication. Autism signs show up at different ages and what you see as a possible causation could simply be a coincidence. If she had a first bit of sushi at age three before developing signs of Autism, would you suggest that the sushi caused it? I know that people try to find reasons for bad things happening and often look for someone to blame for it.

      • Smoktwomore

        Best response! Ty.

      • Laurie Neufeld

        Smoktwomore you are going off of debunked, discredited swill from ONE source. Mercury is NO LONGER used in vaccines, and the English doctor who made the autism allegation has been shown as a fraud. You’re a poster child for what this post is decrying.

      • Stacy Methvin

        Yes…..there are many horrible things used in vaccines…..go to the CDC website and look at the ingredients for them.

      • Laurie Neufeld

        Are you a chemist or a practicing medical doctor, Stacy?

      • Stacy Methvin

        I am informed. Anyone can go to the Center for.Disease Control and see what they are being injected with. It’s pretty horrifying to learn that animal embryonic stem cells, mercury, aluminium, and the sorts are being used as additives during the first years of a child’s formative years and while building an immune system.

      • Laurie Neufeld

        So that’s a NO.

      • Stacy Methvin

        My husband is a Chemist/Biologist and No I am not, but it doesn’t take a medical doctor to read the ingredients, listing what is in the vaccines the Pharmaceutical companies use. When my 3rd grandchild had seizures and 106° temps after his vaccines my daughter and me did research into vaccines and the ingredients,frequencies, combinations, immune deficiency relatedness etc. And some things seem very apparent. Certainly not worth sarcasm and arguing when your talking about possible loss of life.

      • Laurie Neufeld

        And yet, in replying to Voice of Treason, you were cheering him on because he advocated more people dying of natural causes. Hypocrite. Why didn’t your husband do the research, since he’s a chemist/biologist?

      • AQ

        I call bullshit on your husband being a Chemist/Biologist. A degree from a paper mill is not legit.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        I work in a law office, and we spent last week researching how someone could be exposed to lead. Lead is in EVERYTHING, quite possibly because of lead in gasoline (from a long time ago) that is still EVERYWHERE, because it doesn’t just wash away or degrade. Mercury is in most fish, unless it’s farmed (and there are other issues with THAT).

        I’ve read all the labels, and I’ve had preventable illnesses. If given the choice between having the flu again and the nano amounts of crap in a vaccine? I’ll take the vaccine.

      • Stacy Methvin

        There is no proof of this

      • Brian

        no proof of what exactly?

      • Stacy Methvin

        no one has proven that there is no link between vaccines and autism. In fact several law suits have recently been settled in favor of the child with symptoms, allegedly caused by vaccines. Look it up!

      • Brian

        that is completely wrong.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        I have, and you’re wrong. Present a profoundly damaged child to a jury, and you win, regardless of the truth (and even more so in the South, which has become a litigation swamp). Can you convince a jury of a link between vaccines and anything? Yes, just like you, a layperson with no real understanding of it, can be convinced. That does not make it true, or real. Just convincing.

      • AQ

        But Brian, don’t you get it? Science is just a huge conspiracy by Big Pharma to poison us all! Naturalnews told me, so it MUST be true!
        (for the anti-vaxxers err the stupid: that was sarcasm)

      • Erwin Blonk

        Autism becomes apparent around that age, it has nothing to do with vaccines. Children who don’t get vaccinated also get autism at the same percentages. Correlation is not causation.

      • Stacy Methvin

        You don’t know that

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Neither do you.

      • AQ

        Correlation is causation to stupid people like Stacy Methvin.

      • baxters

        Most cases of autism are not diagnosed till around age 3 or later. I don’t know about your friend, but they have looked back at home videos and photos and found signs of autism in many babies whose parents believe they had no signs till age three. I know many people who are fully vaccinated and are not autistic.

      • Pithy Eponym Here

        early symptoms of autism can be observed in children as young as three months to a year. My sister in law has been involved with autism research and Aspergers for two decades. Vaccines mean jack all in this research field.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        And many people who were never vaccinated and are autistic. Or deaf or blind from measles. Or sterile from mumps.

      • Vaxxlover

        Another thing… Even if there were a link, isn’t autism better than smallpox, tetanus, etc.? Seriously, go look up pictures and descriptions and tell me you’d rather have smallpox than autism.

      • Stacy Methvin

        Smallpox has been eradicated, we dont vaccinate for that anymore.

      • Brian

        because everyone got vaccinated

      • Vaxxlover

        That was an example :p

      • Pithy Eponym Here

        There is no provable link between autism and vaccines. Please by all means educate yourself and stop reading these conspiracy sites or listen to Jenny McCarthy. That is a rabbit hole people keep tripping down.

      • Smoktwomore

        I guess you didn’t even bother to read all my post. I didn’t just read that somewhere

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        So you’re saying that you have proof that a vaccine caused autism, presumably in someone you know. Let’s see the evidence. If it’s true, I will be the first to sound the alarm. But it isn’t true, and even if you have one, single, personal experience with vaccinations and autism? I have thousands of cases where children were vaccinated and did not suffer any ill effects, let alone autism, and those are just the ones in my personal experience, there are millions, no billions more. I also know children who are autistic who were never vaccinated, very many fewer, not more than a dozen or so. How does your “vaccine autism link” explain them?

      • suesista

        It is exactly people who repeat anecdotal tales associating autism with vaccines who perpetuate the problem. You are officially an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist…always prefacing your silliness with the disclaimer, “I’m not a conspiracy nut, BUT…..” Yes. You ARE a conspiracy nut. And you are now complicit in the spread of preventable diseases which finer minds than yours had almost eradicated….through vaccinations.
        I’m struck by the overwhelming self-regard—On the ZERO, DISPROVEN mistaken and rigid opinion that YOUR child will develop autism, you are willing to endanger millions. Lack of critical thinking, obsession, self-involvement and the thrill of feeling rejectionist have conspired to dump you into the nutty bin.

      • Smoktwomore

        If I say I don’t think vaccines are a conspiracy to harm people that means I’m NOT an anti vaccine conspiracy theorist. I’m asking question here not just throwing around opinions. I never said I’m against vaccines just afraid of what I could be putting in my body.

      • suesista

        If you’re “afraid” then there’s nothing to be done about it. You give more credence to the meandering spew of a Playboy bunny than to all of science. It is what it is. Just keep listening to your anti-vaxxer pals, and eagerly lap up their campfire stories, and imagine that you are somehow noble for it. Don’t even try to clear your mind. Once you’ve gone down the conspiracy path, it’s very difficult to come back. Sorry.

      • Smoktwomore

        No one is talking about Jenny McCarthy but you and I don’t have anti vaxxer pals. You’re so closed minded you assume you already know me and assume you know where I get my information from. You’re fucking stupid.

      • Stacy Methvin

        Yes…..it is and maybe one day all of you will realize the path leads to no where and turn around and follow your own heart and mind instead of believing everything your big government tells you! Hahahaha!!!!

      • Stacy Methvin

        Don’t listen to the uniformed sheeple. Keep folowing your heart and mind. Do your research….read the facts. Stay healthy!

      • You’re correct. You’re no expert.

      • Smoktwomore

        Wow that was the most useful response. Thank you so much! Your such a science wiz.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        And you’re not as smart as you think you are. But yes, we are wasting our time arguing with people who believe they know better. You don’t, but it’s also not my job to convince you.

      • Stacy Methvin

        My grandson had seizures the day of his vaccines and hasn’t been the same.

      • AQ

        And the cousin of a friend of mine died in a car wreck because his seatbelt wouldn’t disengage and the car caught fire. Therefore all seatbelts are bad, and we need to not use them.
        Do you see how ridiculous that is? You’re using that kind of logic.

      • AQ

        lrn2autism–autism is NOT caused by vaccines.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Yep. Not an expert. Not even very educated on the subject. Your belief that someone who was vaccinated became autistic as a result does not make it so.

      • Smoktwomore

        I never said it was in fact the vaccines that caused her autism but that is what her family has been told and believe. I’m here sharing this story because I am curious. Please take your condescension somewhere else.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Again, one story does not the truth make. If you are curious, you listen, you explore, you question. You don’t say, I was told this, and none of you can convince me it’s not true, and I’m going to keep telling you all that …

        “You’re fucking stupid.”

        You also don’t know anything about ME. At a certain point, I’m entitled to be condescending to someone like you.

        And since this is a thread decrying endless anecdotal nonsense with no basis in fact, YOU take yourself somewhere else.

      • Laurie Bee

        LIes, all lies…

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Children who are not vaccinated also become autistic. You do not “get” autism, it is not communicable in that way, nor is there any know trigger, at least, not after birth. If she has gone to doctors and they say it could have been “contamination in vaccines or possible mercury from the seal,” I would go to another doctor, as they have no idea what they are talking about.

        And what Irwin Blonk said.

      • Scott Furciniti

        I have to disagree with you both. Influenza kills thousands and is the straw that breaks the camels back leading to tens of thousands of other deaths annually just in the US. Even if you get a case of the flu that’s mild to you, the fact that you can pass it on to someone else who might not be so fortunate should be reason enough to get the shot every year.

      • Brian

        The distinction I was trying to make is that we don’t try to get everyone to have the flu shot to provide herd immunity. If he chooses not to have the flu shot it isn’t going to change the likelihood that I will get the flu. Additionally, until the recent strains of H1N1 etc. the flu shot was only highly recommended for particular groups like the elderly, not for all adults. I concede that you could get someone sick who has a weaker immune system, but consider it different in kind from things like measles or polio.

      • redspear2

        A reasonable response. Influenza is responsible for one of the deadly outbreaks in history and it is the biggest killer when it comes to infectious disease so I don’t consider it a small thing.
        The flu vaccine is not as effective as other vaccines out there. its hard to predict yearly mutations and that makes it harder to get herd immunity. I think that attitude is changing in the medical community over the past few years though as each person who is immunized can help prevent multiple infections.
        There are still many high risk/local infection vaccinations out there that are not recommended unless there is a reason. Like rabies or Japanese encephalitis.
        I have seen the I am healthy argument and can withstand flu/measles/mumps what not argument way to much. I consider it to be self centered and dangerous because it ignores the reality of infectious disease. If an adult doesn’t want tetanus fine but when these adults make decisions for kids that don’t just affect their children(which is bad enough) but there community its not acceptable.

      • Laurie Neufeld

        If he or his spawn cough, sneeze, spit or breathe on you, Brian, your chances go waaaaaay up.

      • Brian

        That is true, but also true for the majority of the population. Do I get the flue shot? Yes. Should everyone get it? Yes. However, if someone decides they don’t want to get it, I’m not going to get nearly as worked up about it as with people who don’t vaccinate for measles etc.

      • Stacy Methvin

        Why? If you are vaccinated for Measles and your family is vaccinted for Measles and my children weren’t, then what would you have to worry about? You’d be protected right?

      • Brian

        you keep failing to understand that some people can’t get vaccines and they rely on everyone else to get them in order to keep them safe

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        You’re right. If it weren’t for the fact that unvaccinated people are a risk to immunocompromised people, I wouldn’t care in the least if you all get sick. You probably won’t. There are enough sane and sentient people who do get vaccinations and vaccinate their children so you’re probably protected, as long as it’s JUST you and your family. Sadly, it isn’t.

      • Laurie Bee

        Seriously, get educated about vaccines. They don’t work 100% of the time…that’s why “herd immunity” is so important.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Well, no. We can all still get measles from someone who isn’t vaccinated. This is especially true if the virus comes from somewhere where the virus is wild, which much of it does. Still, we vaccinated otherwise healthy people won’t get nearly as sick as YOU if we do get sick, and then there are all those unvaccinated for unrelated medical reasons. But even if you couldn’t care less about the Public Health aspects of vaccination, there’s an even more important reason to get vaccinated against as many illnesses as you can: YOU DON’T WANT TO GET SICK. I have had many illnesses, all from wild viruses, and I promise you, you don’t want to get measles, mumps, chicken pox, or influenza. Or pneumonia. You really don’t.

      • Stacy Methvin

        How? If your vaccinated?

      • Laurie Neufeld

        Because he is refusing to be vaccinated because he doesn’t want to.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        So all the rest of us have to get vaccinated so you don’t have to? What does that say about YOU?

      • Laurie Bee

        you’re

      • Elvis Oswald

        “…you can pass it on to someone else…”

        I can’t pass it along to people who got a flu shot. :)

        So get yours…. I’ll be fine without it.
        Same goes for your kids. Leave mine alone.

      • redspear2

        Elvis not everyone can get a flu shot. Maybe that grl next door has advanced HIV maybe you will urn into a girl with leukemia on the bus. Just because a person has a weakened immune system doesn’t mean that they can’t work or go out in public and the flu is a serious illness to them. By getting a vaccine you create a barrier for others.
        At this point I will mention that vaccines are not 100% and its selfish to assume that someone can just vaccinate to protect them selves. Lets say a vaccine is 80% effective that means 1 in 5 who vaccinate COULD get infected. If 90% of a population vaccinate the number of infected will be significantly less than if only 50% vaccinate. At 90% protected that vulnerable 1 in 5 is much less likely to get infected and if they do they are less likely to pass it on. However if only 20% vaccinate than that 1 out of 5 has no herd immunity and is essentially left unprotected.
        Ignorance does kill.

      • Laurie Thomas

        Yes, you can pass the flu along to someone who got a flu shot. Not everyone who gets the shot develops protective immunity as a result. The people who are at the highest risk of dying of flu complications are the ones who are least able to develop protective immunity from the shot.

      • Nick

        Herd immunity only gets you so far. The main reason we are having the worst outbreak of measles and whooping cough is because enough morons like you decided not to get vaccinated, allowing the “bugs” to gain a foothold. The danger of not vaccinating for the flu is that you pass it on to a young child, the immune compromised or the elderly, at risk of death from fever and dehydration. Your actions are directly harming other people and it is disgusting.

      • Judith_Priest

        AND harming your own children.

      • buricco

        If I got the flu I’m not leaving the house, so it doesn’t really matter much to me 😛

      • JoInPeoria

        You may be contagious before you develop the flu and don’t leave the house. In that case, you are putting other people at risk.

      • buricco

        To clarify, I live alone.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        When you get the flu, and someday you will, you will understand why a cheap, simple shot is so much better than not caring about whether or not you give it to someone else. In someone who does not regularly get a flu shot, it can be a weeks to months long illness, if you get pneumonia even longer, and I cannot describe how horrible you will feel, certainly not in print. Get vaccinated, you can still get the flu, but it will a milder and far less debilitating occurrence.

      • JGISD

        Get vaccinated when you are auto-immune (severe allergies, for instance), and your immune system could easily go into hyper drive, exposing you to no end of infectious hosts, such as lung infections or the very flu you were attempting to protect yourself from.

      • dr. angelface

        proof please

      • JGISD

        Anyone with auto-immune problems (allergies are the leading auto-immune disease), should never risk their lives to vaccines, which kick their immune systems into overdrive, and make their bodies host to a wide range of invasive hosts, such as lung infections or the flu itself.

        Your arrogance in deciding that your life is the only one worth protecting is disgusting.

      • Scott Furciniti

        Wrong. In some people, vaccinations are not 100% effective. So yes, you and your un-vaccinated kids can indeed pass influenza on to someone else even if they have been vaccinated.

      • Caroline Kozar Nordlund

        Bravo!!

      • Laurie Neufeld

        You’re relying on “herd immunity” Elvis. And every year the vaccinated people who provide that herd immunity are fewer, just because of this idiocy of “I’m not gunna cuz you did”.

      • Stacy Methvin

        Hahahahha….right! My unvacinnated kids dont get sick. :-)

      • Fullerene

        So you just don’t give a sh*t about those with compromised immune systems (e.g., AIDS patients, leukemia patients, etc.), and the elderly? Screw ’em, they can just drop dead?

        I see where you’re coming from.

      • AQ

        Actually, yes you can pass it along to people who got a flu shot. Vaccines are not 100% effective, and nobody is billing them as such–sometimes they fail. So yes, you CAN pass your shit along to somebody who’s been vaccinated.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        My parents kept me away from all other children until I was in kindergarten. I was a walking virus magnet. I don’t think I went to school more than a week in a row from October until May until the third grade. I had everything, and I was sick for a month to six weeks with each one. My brother and sister were lucky, they got infected from me – so they got a weakened version, and they weren’t out as long as me. I would have given anything to not get sick all those times. Did all my children get all their shots? You bet they did.

      • JGISD

        I spent 2 years in the hospital because well-meaning but entirely clueless medical professionals kept telling me that those with auto-immune issues need to get all their vaccinations. It turned out that “herd mentality” is dangerous as hell when everyone ends up being wrong. It wasn’t until I started seeing a functional medical doctor that we cut through the falsehoods that pass for *medicine* in modern western medical care.

      • Paceride

        Sure you can. Just like if a woman gets birth control she may still get pregnant. Selfish much?

      • VoiceOf…Treason

        The world is overpopulated enough as it is. People need to die of natural causes so humans can continue to evolve. Enough with the playing god already. Death is a natural part of the process.

      • Stacy Methvin

        Well finally someone.said it!!!!!! Thanks

      • AQ

        Fuck you, I’m going to vaccinate. If you want to be a Luddite and live without modern medicine, you go do that–without spreading your diseases to the rest of us.

      • VoiceOf…Treason

        I received standard vaccinations growing. When it comes to the flu shot though… If I get the flu and die because I didn’t get vaccinated, then oh well, I guess I am not for this earth. I haven’t had the a flu shot in 15 years and have not had the flu in that time.

      • AQ

        OK, good for you. That doesn’t change what I said.

      • Diane Moffatt

        Will you say that when your loved one dies?

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        You know what? We sane and sentient people will NEVER win an argument against someone who believes that death is natural, so if you die of a preventable illness it’s just the way it is. Like trying to teach a cat to read, it is a waste of your time and it annoys the cat.

      • Amy Lemons Lamont

        Creating the yearly flu vaccine is a crap shoot. They look at the strains circulating and make an educated guess as to which ones to include. Most of the time their guesses are correct. But if they get the flu strains wrong as they did a few years ago, you aren’t completely protected from getting the flu. If you do get it, it might be a mild case. The real problem is not the virus itself. It’s the pneumonia and other opportunistic infections that hit the body when it’s weakened by the virus.

      • Lars Jakob Furunes

        The point isn’t that you personally should get every available vaccine. A flu shot is pointless if you are a normally healthy, grown up human being.
        The problem with anti vaccers is that they refuse to have their children vaccinated against diseases that may threaten their life or give them long term suffering, at the same time that they put other people’s children at risk because the un-vaccinated kids are likely to spread disease.
        Imagine that you have a child that for some reason _can’t_ receive a vaccine. If every other child around was vaccinated, your child would be safe. If one other child has idiots for parents and isn’t vaccinated, then your child might catch a disease from the idiot’s child and get sick or even die.

      • Scott Furciniti

        Lars, I disagree about the flu shot. Influenza IS a life threatening disease. Even healthy adults should be vaccinated in order to reduce their risk of passing, what to them might be a mild case, on to others who’s general health is not so good. Vaccines work because of herd immunity.

      • Brian

        The flu shot currently doesn’t work that way. Less than half of the population in the US gets the flu vaccine. We would need the upper 90’s to get herd immunity, but even then it would only be those specific strains, so while you would reduce the instances of the flu and mortality, you would not eliminate them. I get the flu shot every year because I don’t want to get sick and miss work, but until we fine a long term vaccine over a broader range of strains, I believe herd immunity is a long way off.

      • Daniel Hawkins

        Herd immunity isn’t a binary proposition; it’s not like if you vaccinate a specific percentage of the population, all of a sudden herd immunity exists, and below that threshold it doesn’t. At every percentage, each additional vaccination adds to herd immunity. It is true that for a given vaccine, when you get below a certain threshold the incremental gain in herd immunity for each additional vaccination is quite small, but it is never zero.

        You concede that vaccination of a healthy person would reduce mortality in the rest of the population, but not eliminate the virus, as though reducing mortality were a side consideration, but that’s the whole point. Healthy people should get the flu vaccine to avoid being either a primary source of transmission leading to death, by directly passing it to an immuno-compromised person, or a secondary source, by acting as a reservoir for the virus, which other people will eventually spread to an immuno-compromised person.

      • Brian

        I don’t disagree with you, however, I’m also a realist as it comes to human behavior. Getting a series at childhood that provides lifetime immunity is very easy to get rational people to do. Getting a shot every year for the flu for life is not as easy. People forget, supplies are often inconsistent, and people who get the shot may still get a flu strain that is not covered by the vaccine. Sure, I totally agree that it is great to get it and I do every year, but I can’t get as worked up about someone not getting the flu shot as I do about other diseases where it is basically possible to eliminate risk to the whole population.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        I get the flu shot because I’m selfish. I’ve had the flu, and I hated it. A vaccination is one tool that helps me not get it. Ever again.

      • Nice

        Getting the flu shot is important to protect OTHER people. If you take mass transit, work in a school, hospital, daycare or any large building full of people then you are putting them at risk.

      • Lars Jakob Furunes

        The problem with the influenza vaccine in general is that influenza isn’t simply “the flu”. You’re vaccinated against the strand of virus that researchers think is most likely to hit the population.
        I agree that vaccinating your children against known diseases is necessary for their own and other children’s health, but a flu shot each year doesn’t to much for herd immunity or help save as many lives as many would suggest.

      • Smoktwomore

        Ty. Good response.

      • Sam

        Please don’t sneeze on anyone else. Or go near babies. Or older people. Or in public where you may come in contact with people with compromised immune systems.Vaccination isn’t just about keeping yourself safe, it’s about halting the spread of diseases–especially among vulnerable populations.

      • Brian

        I’m very pro vaccine, but considering that less than half the population in the US gets the flu vaccine, they can’t all stay indoors.

      • suesista

        Oh, do you really think this is about getting a flu shot? Gee.

      • Brian

        ????

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        You’re right about that. What we’re talking about is immunization generally, not just against flu. I have had the flu shot so regularly, I can forget here and there and I still have residual immunity. I didn’t get one for the 13-14 season and even though several people in my office got sick, I didn’t. My calendar is marked for this year’s shot though. Don’t want to forget two years in a row.

      • Jillian Carleton

        i’ve only gotten the flu shot once… about ten years ago. i got the sniffles, but it did its job. haven’t gotten one since…. haven’t gotten the flu either. *shrugs,* so i guess we cancel each other out.

      • AQ

        This.
        I can’t get the flu vaccine, because for whatever reason my body doesn’t seem to care for it (but I have no problem whatsoever with TdaP, MMR, and others–go figure). If I do get the flu, I do my best to stay the fuck home specifically because I don’t want to make anyone sick. If I absolutely must go out (like to a doctor’s office or–gods forbid–to the store or school), then I make liberal use of hand sanitizers and wear facemasks, and try to stay away from others as much as possible.

        It’s just too goddamn bad that anti-vaxxers are so narcissistic and selfish that they can’t be arsed to do the same.

      • Jillian Carleton

        so you are suggesting that ANY vaccine that is available should be taken en masse to help protect vulnerable populations? i can understand dtap, measles, tb…. but a flu vaccine? you do know that those vaccines are made annually to protect against one particular strand of the yearly flu? it doesn’t protect you from all the different varietals of the flu… hell, that specific strain can evolve given enough time. and who walks around sneezing on people? if i need to sneeze, i will do it… sneezing is fairly reflexive, i’ll try not to get it on you… but do us both a solid and buy yourself a bubble.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        So don’t get one. Otherwise healthy adults probably don’t need one. The flu shot is for those who have pulmonary issues where pneumonia would be life threatening, the very young, and the elderly. I get one so that, if I do get the flu, I won’t be very sick, or for very long. I spent most of my childhood being sick from what are now preventable diseases, and a couple of times as an adult I had seme pretty serious infectious illnesses that keep me out of work and/or away from school for weeks. if a simple, cheap shot can keep that from happening again, I’m having it.

      • JGISD

        My beef is with a disinformation machine that tells people that the vaccine could save your life, without also telling you that anyone with auto-immune issues (allergies is the leading auto-immune issue) could easily die from complications of the vaccination. NONE of these deaths are listed as being caused by the shot, since the effect is indirect. Trackable in a cause-effect relationship, but indirect. The CDC will make you believe what they want you to believe.

      • Paceride

        So if you know you have an auto immune issue don’t get the shot. In the meantime, we’re still waiting for your proof that 40% of th population has auto immune issues.

      • Odd Jørgensen

        The National Institutes of Health (NIH estimates up to 23.5* million
        Americans suffer from autoimmune disease and that the prevalence is
        rising. We at AARDA say that 50 million* Americans suffer from
        autoimmune disease. Why the difference? The NIH numbers only include 24
        diseases for which good epidemiology studies were available.

        And to say that all that suffer any autoimmune issue can`t be vaccinated is just hogwash of the highest caliber.JGISD is just full of hyperbole and tinfoiltrooper nuttery.

      • Paceride

        The flu shot protects agains 3 types of flu (4, last year I think), and they are types they think may be going around. Since the shot does give residual immunity, you really are protected from more than the ones given in a particular year. I hope you never get the real flu, cause you won’t be walking around if you do, you’ll be flat on your back. Problem is many of these anti flu shot people don’t know what it really is to get the flu. They get a cold and think it’s the flu.

      • Da La

        I agree with immunization but will probably never get the flu shot. Problem with a lot of these pro flu shot people is they fool themselves it works, but it only works for a couple types of flu, and they get sick anyway. I simply don’t get the flu, haven’t in 17+ years, and if I ever do, I certainly won’t be going to work like the idiots who think their oncoming flu must be a cold because “I had the flu shot!”. I had flu so many times as a kid, maybe I built up a strong immunity – whatever the case, EVERYONE (nope, not exaggerating) I know who gets the flu shot gets flu anyway, EVERY YEAR, I guess because of different strains and their exposure. As for being a “carrier” – get real. ALL the adults I know who’ve gotten flu in the last few years got it from their kids, and I frankly stay the hell away from kids as much as I can anyway – they’re FAR more likely to make ME sick than the other way around. And no, I don’t consider it irresponsible – I consider it irresponsible to assume that that vaccine protects people when in fact it really seems to do nothing very much.

      • Avery

        “…EVERYONE (nope, not exaggerating) I know who gets the flu shot gets flu anyway, EVERY YEAR…”

        I seriously doubt that you have discussed this with EVERYONE that you know.

      • Jared

        luckily since i never get sick that isn’t a problem.

      • Pithy Eponym Here

        Thinking that just because you didn’t get the flu in no way precludes you from carrying the virus and passing it on. There is no closed system in viral pathogens. Vaccines cut down on transmission vectors. The “just because it doesn’t happen to me” excuse doesn’t hold water.

      • Caroline Kozar Nordlund

        As an elementary school teacher, one year I did succumb to the pressure of getting a flu shot, as they came to our school, and THAT year, I was sicker than I’ve ever been! ! The worst flu of my life…NEVER AGAIN FOR ME OR MY OWN KIDS…

      • You cannot get the flu from the vaccine. The virus is deactivated. It is impossible.

      • LeeAnneClark

        It’s a losing battle. You cannot change the minds of irrational people using rationality.

      • You young lady worry me. I do hope that you’re not passing on this ridiculous ‘logic’ you’ve jumped to to the children that you’re responsible for. I really don’t understand what is up with people trying to find any possible reason for getting the flu.

        Shit happens. Deal with it. Get vaccinated.

      • FD Brian

        I’m sorry you were sick. But correlation is not causation. And I would love for you to define “sicker”, did you get a few colds, do you keep track of your colds from year to year, how do you scientifically know you were “sicker”, did you just feel sicker? Did you feel sicker because you “Got that flu” shot and I read somewhere they make you sick? please elaborate.

      • suesista

        Oh goodie! Unbelievable in this day and age with the internet available, that someone would post such a thing.

      • Junk.science.kills

        One year I gave in to pressure to get a flu shot, and THAT year, I got into TWO car accidents. The only time that’s ever happened to me. The flu vaccine clearly causes car accidents. NEVER AGAIN FOR ME OR MY OWN KIDS…
        [See what i did there? 😉 ]

      • Riot Nrrrd™

        Personal body chemistry is an amazing thing. You had one experience. My experience is 180° different. When I don’t get a Flu shot, I get the Flu several times a Winter. If I do, I never get it. I went 18 months without getting it recently. Then forgot to get the shot that Winter, and … boom.

        For me, at least, Flu shots work. Despite whatever mercury, formaldehyde and pig’s blood is in them 😉

      • Smoktwomore

        Ty for a good response.

      • Laurie Neufeld

        My paternal grandfather DIED in the influenza pandemic of 1918. It IS a big deal. And even if you didn’t feel bad when you had it, I’m sure the people that you coughed, sneezed and breathed on really didn’t appreciate it.

      • Smoktwomore

        I don’t ever cough
        Sneeze or breathe on anyone. You may do all that but I don’t

      • rogerston

        I just don’t understand why I need to wear a seatbelt, I haven’t gotten in a car accident in years.

      • Smoktwomore

        Sounds good at first but that’s a terrible analogy. The safety and effectiveness of seatbelts are a common belief. Flu shots not so much. Also I’m gonna go out on a limb and say more people die in car accidents than influenza.

      • he_who_scoffs_at_danger

        I think if you’ve had the flu before and learned the hard way the behavioral and nutritional measures you have to take to prevent getting it, a flu shot is an unnecessary expense. That however is something completely different from believing vaccination is a conspiracy to pollute your fluids.

      • Stacy Methvin

        I haven’t gotten a flu vaccine since 1995. I have not had the flu one time since then either. My husband gets the vaccine and it makes him sick every time. Last year the lymph nodes under the arm where he got the shot swelled up and were sore for three months. The doctors did a biopsy even! Noooo thank you! He won’t get another vaccine, he says.

      • Fullerene

        Then you haven’t gotten a strain like H1N1, or another strain you didn’t have much immunity to. You’ve been lucky. It sounds like a great way to live, hoping the big one doesn’t hit you.

        You must not have a very important job if it’s no big deal that you miss a couple of days just because you think a flu shot is too much trouble.

      • Smoktwomore

        No, I don’t ever want another job! There’s way more to life than “commuting to a job you hate so you can buy things you don’t need” I know not everyone hates their jobs but I think most people would not go back to their jobs if they didn’t have bills.

    • Caroline Kozar Nordlund

      If your kids are vaccinated, then you certainly have nothing to worry about, eh? Why can’t you just leave the people who don’t want to inject unknown chemicals, and known toxins in their kids, Alone?!!

      • Vaccinations are not 100% effective. Higher vaccination rates will decrease infectivity rates for everyone, not just the unvaccinated.

      • LeeAnneClark

        Because not everyone can get vaccines due to health issues. And among those who can, vaccines aren’t as effective in people with impaired immune systems. So the people who are most at risk from these diseases remain unprotected, and are relying on the rest of us to do the right thing and get vaccinated.

        So yeah, thanks for continuing to spread your pseudo science bunk. You’ve killed people today. Feel good?

      • Why don’t you ask your children what THEY think. Your children or not, you are willing to risk the health of your children simply because you got the flu once? You’re a total moron and I worry for your children. You may be able to weather the flu, but I don’t know how old your children are and worry that they may not.

        What’s worse? A vaccine that billions of dollars of investment, and countless years of work, and many brilliant minds, managed to create to reduce the risks/affects of the flu, or not getting your children vaccinated because apparently you now know better than a thousand scientists, who put in thousands of hours, on something that you do not understand and shouldn’t be so arrogant as to pretend that you do.

        I know the answer. Unfortunately for your children, you do not.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Exactly. If my children got any of these preventable diseases and after all the suffering they went through they found out I could have prevented it with a few shots? I think they’d be pretty angry.

      • FD Brian

        The chemicals are not unknown. They are well know, well studied and scientifically tested. You are quit possibly endangering many lives including your child’s life. I’m not sure about you, but I’m my child died I would be crushed, especially if it was from a disease that could have been prevented with a vaccine.

      • suesista

        Well, that would be great, if we could just quarantine them for life away from the rest of responsible, thinking society.

    • Judith_Priest

      I’d like to thank the anti-vaxxers of the Los Angeles Burning Man Community for the whooping cough I picked up at your NYE party in 2011! I also appreciated the shingles that THEN attacked my weakened immune system. Sick as a dog for six months.

      Again, thanks ever so, folks.

      • GM Miller

        Didn’t your vaccine work to protect you?

      • Laurie Neufeld

        You can’t GET the shingles vaccine until you’re 50, GM Miller. Snark failure.

      • a

        but his Tdap clearly failed.. or he cares just enough to bitch but not enough to actually get vaccinated

      • Edath Feston

        The Tdap he was given as a baby will no longer be effective when he is an adult. Even the measles vaccine loses effectiveness by age 12 and it is recommended that a booster be given after age 12. No adult who hasn’t had the booster is immune to measles any more. It’s the same with Tdap and Tetanus. Ask your doctor. Because children are running around now with these diseases a great many of us who were vaccinated but not updated on our vaccinations are at risk!

      • Testament

        Really, so this fact doesn’t tell you that Vaccines are utter bullshit? Next to no one gets updated booster shots and low and behold there hasn’t been an outbreak of diseases among adults. Great job undermining your argument by presenting factoids in your own words that completely contradict your entire belief.

        Dumbass, quite getting distracted from real issues by this dumb shit.

      • Edath Feston

        We will see who is the dumbass in a few years.

      • George Washington

        We sure will. O wait I mean I will because I will still be alive.

      • Nemisis

        Testament…Actually, the vaccines do work, they work great. Adults don’t get the “Childhood” diseases at the same rate as children because their immune systems are very robust and because of the vaccines received as kids. Your immune system does not forget how to combat a virus once you’ve been infected. That does not mean you won’t contract a virus again. It means your body will recover faster and the virus will not be as effective. If you have not had the vaccine and you are a child you will be in for the fight of your life. Literally…I don’t mean the “new ” definition of “literally” that means “figuratively” I mean you may die. Pretty good chance that you will, the younger you are the more deadly measles is. Also…the flu can kill you and whole list of other virus that we had in check that are now becoming so “retro”, don’t worry though the life expectancy of anti-vaxers is relatively short. It’s too bad that we have to suffer along with them. Oh yeah…the shingles virus. If you have ever had the Chicken-pox you’ve already got the virus. laying dormant. hidden from the immune system until…your immune system gets weakened by another illness or age.
        Most likely you’ll get sick, probably bacterial in nature at first, then you get to enjoy Shingles. Why is the vaccine only available after 50? Because that’s who is most susceptible. People aged from 50-79…It’s an elders disease. Come full circle, haven’t we.

        I love the “Amish don’t vaccinate” argument by the anti-vaxers….Polio vaccine introduced in 1955 poli cases dropped to 61 in 1965. In 1979 the Amish enjoyed an outbreak of polio. Only the Amish.

        Stop being distracted by your ignorance.

      • Avery

        “Next to no one gets updated booster shots…”

        [Citation needed]

      • Bloodysot

        Perhaps next to no one at your local witch doctor gets them…”cuz vaccines cause autism!” Here in reality people DO get boosters

      • Anonymous Me

        Then it’s because your vaccines aren’t up to date, not because other people choose not to vaccinate. Your Doctor isn’t doing a very good job, I get booster shots, flu shots and pneumonia shots.

      • Stacy Methvin

        Thank you……the (MMR) doesn’t last….and whooping cough is curable with antibiotics. I got it two yrs ago when exposed, because my vaccine had worn of from childhood and I was treated with two rounds of antibiotics. So you see….vaccines don’t last a lifetime anyway. The medical community doesn’t tell us the truth!

      • Fullerene

        Yeah, there’s some kind of conspiracy, where they tell everyone what the booster schedule is, and people then don’t pay attention. Yes, a conspiracy or something.

      • cable1977

        “vaccines don’t last a lifetime anyway. The medical community doesn’t tell us the truth!”

        Actually, they tell people to get booster shots pretty regularly. Why is it that anti-vaxxers always seem to lie when they make their claims?

      • AQ

        Because they know that their “truth” is anything but.

      • Marty

        The very fact that booster shots are even necessary, and that vaccines do not guarantee immunity (and conversely, the fact that unvaccinated ppll do not necessarily become infected) prove that the med/pharma mafia have you right where they want you : believing that immunity comes in a $yringe, rather than originating from a well-nourished body.

      • Nemisis

        “the fact that unvaccinated ppll do not necessarily become infected)
        prove that the med/pharma mafia have you right where they want you. ”
        That is not a fact, that is a supposition.
        This is closer to a fact than what you just said.

        I have not been struck by the moon therefore I must be immune to it.

        The very fact that humans are unique and nature ensures that everyone has a similar yet different immune system. This is so that we humans have a better chance of survival as a species. Basically that is true of all lifeforms.

        Vaccines can be tailor made to a very specific person. Have you got that kind of money?
        The general population doesn’t. If they did vaccines could be brought up to 100% effective.
        Since they don’t we must rely on a more generalized application.

        For example there are a lot of cars. They use parts, parts made specifically for those cars. However there are also some things that are not made specifically for any car. Such as paint or tires or oil or gas. There are cars that don’t run on gas. There are cars run on diesel. if you put the wrong fuel in a car designed to run on diesel, it won’t work.
        You might even destroy the motor.
        Vaccines work the same way. They are not for everyone, and there are people that vaccines can not help. There are people that vaccines may actually kill. That does not mean we stop vaccinating, because when we do that nature will start doing what nature does. Nature likes to thin herds down rapidly.

      • How did you miss that the Amish had a Polio outbreak in 1979? 24 years after everyone else was free of it?

      • simhedges

        A well nourished body didn’t stop Elizabeth I, or any number of other wealthy and well fed people getting smallpox. But now no-one gets smallpox because vaccination completely eradicated it. Of course, good health and good food will help anyone fight a disease, but it’s not substite for proper vaccinces.

      • AQ

        Vaccines aren’t meant to last a lifetime, you simpering Luddite. You have to get them updated–even then, they are not the magical 100% protection that you seem to feel we pro-science people are billing them as.
        Learn some basic immunology, ffs.

      • maluja

        or a child fighting cancer

      • Edath Feston

        Whooping cough is also a death sentence to the elderly and anyone who’s pulmonary system is compromised or weakened because of another disease. It’s bad now matter how you look at it. Even when you are fully recovered and no longer contagious, the cough can last weeks. I had it as a child back in the 60’s. Imagine not being able to sleep at night because the coughs come again and again. It’s hell.

      • Dion Kerfont

        Antibiotics treat bacterial infections, not viral ones. Vaccines treat viral infections, not bacterial ones.

      • mig

        Uhm…. almost. Vaccines stimulate the human immune system, but not necessarily just against viruses.

        There do exist a handful of antibacterial vaccines, of which pertussis is one. This is one of those rare diseases for which vaccination and antibiotics are both effective.

        Which, of course, is no reason to avoid the jab. People who don’t vaccinate threaten more than their own health, and that’s where the issue jumps the shark into moral bankruptcy.

      • maluja

        Children die from whooping cough. Children who are fighting cancer have no protection from any preventable disease.

      • Edath Feston

        It was because of the regular immunization of children that the medical community weren’t worried about recommending updating your vaccines as an adult. That’s why they didn’t feel the need to mention it until now. They didn’t need to worry about that until antivaxers came along. They were not consciously lying to you.

      • androsje

        I wish I could be vaccinated, but my body cannot stand vaccines, so I have to trust the rest of the world for my own protection, thanks to all those antivaxxers, I got chicken pox 2 years ago, when I was 20 years old, the older you are the worst the pain.
        Thanks folks, you’ve almost killed me more than once.

      • Jillian Carleton

        suck it up buttercup, it gets harder.

      • soxinsc

        I heard that about chicken pox, but had it when I was 30 and itched more than anything else. It so completely drained me of energy I wasn’t able to walk from one room to another without needing to sit down.

      • DJEB

        I love it when the ignorant think they have a slamdunk. The pertussis vaccine is 80-90% effective, meaning that although it works very well, it is not completely bombproof. That makes it kinda like a seatbelt in a car, or a helmet for motorcycle riders.

      • seraphimblade

        But unlike those, a vaccinated population also creates herd immunity. If everyone is 90% immune, epidemics will be stopped dead in their tracks. If a few people can’t tolerate the vaccine due to a medical condition, they will be far less likely to be exposed.

        Antivax isn’t only a threat to the antivaxer or even just their kids. They jeopardize that herd immunity.

      • DJEB

        True dat.

      • guest

        You mean they jeopardize that herd mentality, right?

      • Nemisis

        I’m pretty sure he/she meant herd immunity.
        Ponder this, ant-herd mentality…Are you going against the herd because of the group you want to be with is against the herd. A herd of anti-herds…Are you not going with the herd-mentality then? Or do you consider yourself spontaneous anti-herd…Something rare and unique among people…that would make you the leader of the anti-herd…Is that not still just a herd with you at the helm? Rage against the herd, you’re still in a herd.

      • George Washington

        The herd is ignorant!

      • jamesofthecommons

        Cattle,goats,pigs,horses et,are herd animals,not human beings.A family ,town,state nation,nor group of nations is not paramount to a herd.This being the case,the concept of herd immunity is simply not an applical model when forming personal nor public health policy.
        I have a hunch that the money spent on artificial immunization therapy, would be better invested in further research into possible means of viral iradication.
        I apologize for getting off subject at this point,but the authors of this website are either uninformed,or in denial of the extreams the international corporate/ banking elite, have been proven to be willing to go to, in order garner complete control over both the planets resources and the people of this planet. Operation/project Monarch along with numerous other clandestine military/industrial, secretly conducted experiments, are now well documented.History,indeed recent history, is rife with both plannend conspiracies and carried out conspiracies,that are at this time documented fact. I must argue that anyone claiming any sort of automatic,or instinctial disdain for so called ”conspiracy theorists” are in fact likely to be party to conspiracy themselves !
        Good night folks,gotta get some rest before a trip to Georgia to take some pics of the Georgia Guidstones.

      • Bloodysot

        So you are upset by the term “herd”
        Herd immunity or herd effect, also called community immunity, describes a form of immunity[1] that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.

      • jamesofthecommons

        A community is very different than a herd ! I understand your argument but I am not so sure I agree with it. Furthermore, I am not sure if I could ever be convinced that people should be forced to take vaccines. Diseases are dangerous, even deadly, but so are polocies which take away a persons right to control what substances will be put into their bodies. I am especialy fearfull of said polocies during a time such as ours when our government is not a government of the people for the people, but rather a tool of the corporate elite, an elite which largely controls the flow of information in our society. It is also a fact that certain members of the elite view the average individual as useless eaters, and they would like to see the human race culled. Imagine how easy it would be to carry out a mass culling of the useless eaters, if a mass mandatory vaccination program were in place. The genocide, and or, at least attempted genocide of one group of people against another is a reacurring event throughout history, so please do not even mention the word paranoid.
        We will need to argue this later, I am dead tired !

      • Ellen H.

        You have to get a booster for whooping cough. Adults used to not have to worry about it until the anti-vaccine crowd started up.

      • Stacy Methvin

        Ha! If you were vaccinated for whooping cough (MMR), then how did you get the virus? I thought vaccines worked????? And shingles come from chicken pox, so if you had chicken pox, then you gave yourself shingles…silly.

      • Fullerene

        You ought to get a clue before you comment on medical matters, clueless lady.

        You get a shingles outbreak when your immune system is weakened by, for example, a case of pertussus. Protection from the MMR vaccine doesn’t last forever (you need boosters throughout your life), and for some with compromised immune systems, it doesn’t work well in the first place. That’s where herd immunity comes in.

        So, you don’t get a vaccine, get sick, think it’s no big deal, and pass it on to someone with AIDS or leukemia. No big deal, since it doesn’t affect you, and that’s all that matters.

      • Shell

        My mother got shingles and the doctor told her it was because she was exposed to chicken pox. She had it as a child. A weaken immune system is the cause of all diseases. If you had chicken pox as a child then you won’t get chicken pox again but sometimes in the form of shingles. I haven’t had any vaccines since a child. the last time my family had the flu I didn’t get it because my immune system was working properly and maybe the organic green tea I drank. It got me over the flu a year before.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Well, no. That’s not how it works. Good thing to work in your immune system, and it does give you some protection, but in a full on outbreak you will still get sick.

        Green tea, organic or otherwise, is neither immunizing nor curative. Good for you, and it likely made you feel better, but nothing more.

      • JGISD

        Immunizations are not “curative”. They are a method of tricking our bodies into producing antibodies.

        The same reaction that leads our immune systems to react to the dead virus and giving us protection, also runs a considerable risk of sending our immune systems into overdrive, exposing us to greater risk of the very thing the vaccine is intended to protect us from.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        “also runs a considerable risk of sending our immune systems into overdrive”

        Well, no, and nothing in my many years of participating in medical research and writing lit reviews has told me otherwise. If you have a ref for that, I’d love to see it.

      • JGISD

        Seriously? lol. Anyone with auto-immune issues (40%) of our population, should strenuously avoid setting their immune system into overdrive by tricking it into thinking it’s being attacked through vaccinations. Doing so sets in motion a highly destructive (or even fatal) response of the body attacking EVERYTHING, leading to the body to exhausting itself, and allowing hosts such as the very flu you are trying to avoid, to take root.

        It never ceases to amaze me when health “professionals” deny basic science because their lemming mentality (read: peer review) tells them it doesn’t exist. Have a quick chat with any doctor versed in treating auto-immunity, and you will destroy much of what you *know* about science. Auto-immunity is more to blame for most US health epidemics such as obesity and diabetes than any other cause.

      • Odd Jørgensen

        idiots that reads “all you can eat buffe” and take that as a challenge is to blame for obesity and diabetes, not auto-immunity.

      • JGISD

        “You get a shingles outbreak when your immune system is weakened”

        You also get shingles when your immune system is OVER active, a far bigger problem than the one that you’ve pictured. That’s where “don’t get the shot because it could kill you” comes in. Nearly every mass health woe America faces today is the result of toxic overload leading to auto-immune disease, something the CDC entirely ignores in its advice on its website.The CDC can’t achieve mass immunity without forcing harm on those whose immune systems should NEVER be jolted with tricks of the sort that modern vaccination use.

        It’s a good system for 60-70% of the population. The rest of us with auto-immune issues should not be guilted into making your lives work for, at the expense of our own health. As long as it works for you though, that’s all that really matters.

      • Avery

        @JGISD:disqus

        “Nearly every mass health woe America faces today is the result of toxic overload leading to auto-immune disease…”

        [Citation needed]

      • ThorazineShuffle

        MMR is not whooping cough, it is a vaccine that only covers Measels, Mumps and Rubella. Whooping cough, aka Pertussis, is covered by the Tdap vaccine (Tetanus, Diptheria, and Pertussis). And each lasts for only so long. I believe MMR booster is every 10 years and Tdap is every 5 years, or vice versa. Also, vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing disease, just as birth control is not 100% effective at preventing unwanted pregnancies. People who are imunocompromised can not get any vaccines whatsoever as their immune system can not handle them. This is why healthy people who are able to be vaccinated need to get vaccinated for anything, including influenza.

      • MooCow

        Do they give you Tdap when you get your normal tetanus booster?

      • androsje

        As I said to another person in this very same comment section: “I wish I could be vaccinated, but my body cannot stand vaccines, so I have to trust the rest of the world for my own protection, thanks to all those antivaxxers, I got chicken pox 2 years ago, when I was 20 years old, the older you are the worst the pain.Thanks folks, you’ve almost killed me more than once.”
        That’s my story.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        MMR is MEASLES, MUMPS, RUBELLA. If you don’t want to get WHOOPING COUGH, you need to get the DTaP or Tdap booster for adults, which protect against WHOOPING COUGH, TETANUS, and DIPHTHERIA. You can also get a chickenpox vaccination, but that is yet a different shot. If you have had chickenpox, as your immune system gets older, you should get a SHINGLES shot. There has only been an immunization against chicken pox for the past ten or so years, so everyone who had chickenpox before then is at risk for shingles.

        Yes, vaccines work. I will refrain from an ad hominem at this point. Let’s see how long it takes before I need one.

      • JGISD

        “Yes, vaccines work.”

        You are using that claim in a blanket fashion, making your statement dangerously incorrect. Anyone with a compromised immune system, either underactive or overactive, is putting themselves at enormous risk every time they trick they bodies into producing an immune response. About 40% of America fits into that description, some worse that others, but the risk is still there.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        I’m not making a claim, I’m making a statement. That they may not work for everyone, and may cause harm to some, does not obviate the fact that where millions of American children got measles at one point in time, and fyi, measles causes dangerous complications and death, now very few get the measles BECAUSE of vaccination.

        However, I take issue with your claim that 40% of “America” is immunocompromised. That’s 127,353,800 plus people, and it seems a bit, no, it seems very high. If you make a statement like that, it either needs to be generally recognized as true, which it isn’t, or you need to provide supporting evidence. I’d like to see it.

      • JGISD

        “. If you make a statement like that, it either needs to be generally recognized as true,”

        Which it is, by every doctor who specializes in auto-immunity, and by precious few who don’t. Welcome to modern Western medical care, where the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing, and where book learnin’ means you are WAYYY smarter then those who actually know what they are talking about. Your arrogance is not justification for me to do your homework for you. “Peer review” is often the equivalent of “everyone in my circle is wrong.”

      • Paceride

        “Which it is, by every doctor who specializes in auto-immunity, ”

        So IOW, you have nothing to back that statement up other than “I said so”.

        ” “Peer review” is often the equivalent of “everyone in my circle is wrong.””

        uh oh, it’s a conspiritard! Run!!

      • Camp

        And that is why no one listens to anyone else. All you did was show why you are part of the problem. You do nothing more when you spout what you believe. There is evidence out there for both sides. You are only willing, however, to accept one view and hate those that choose a different path. I thought being enlightened and free to choose your own path was part of this group. Too bad accepting others as having the right to their own isn’t.

      • Da La

        All she did was ask you to provide supporting evidence, which you still have not done – it’s not you doing her homework, it’s you proving a statement you want people to accept. And most expect their doctors to have both “book learnin'” (which doesn’t make you smarter but DOES make you more educated, and doctors do need that knowledge) AND common sense. Your refusal to prove your point makes it look like you can’t. Do not expect anyone to agree with you just because you get sarcastic when they challenge you to prove your statements. I think there probably is room for debate on some vaccines but there’s no debate of any kind without proof, and you haven’t given any.

      • Camp

        generally recognized as true? like vaccines are the only good choice? like the earth is flat? That isn’t fact and shows you are really willing to believe anything. Shame on you.

      • Skeptical O Everything

        Please provide references

      • Camp

        How about read more, and look it up yourself? Not everyone has all the time in the world to educate you. Why not try it yourself? If you have an open mind, and want to be educated, try learning and researching yourself. Don’t depend on everyone else to lead you to the trough.

      • Avery

        The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, rookie.

      • Labgramma

        MMR is NOT for whooping cough. MMR is Measles/Mumps/Rubella. DPT (Diptheria/Pertussis/Tetanus…now called TDAP) is for whooping cough. Any dr will recommend regular boosters over a lifetime. Herpes zoster which cause chicken pox is also responsible for shingles.

      • Shank

        Christ alive, you people are stupid.

        Get it straight, fuckwit: Nothing in REAL medicine is 100% effective. If anti-vax disease vectors like you persist in coughing and spluttering over vaccinated people EVENTUALLY you’ll inevitably cough over someone whose vaccine didn’t provide 100% protection. If you think that’s an indictment of vaccines then you’re a fool. It’s an indictment of anti-vaxxers!

        If vaccines don’t work, how do you explain the fact that measles cases in America declined from 400,000 in 1961 to less than 50,000 within 5 years of the measles vaccine’s introduction in 1962? How do you explain that by the mid ’80s it had virtually disappeared altogether? And how do you explain that since you morons came to prominence and vaccination rates dropped measles has started to come back?

        That’s what you get for listening to Playboy models and snake oil salesmen instead of scientists.

      • Camp

        Just as a thought, you might consider this as a viable theory. Many epidemics peak then wane. Science and History proves this time and again. It could have been that folks started avoiding the sick, isolating them to their sick bedrooms until it was well. Handwashing became a big part of the norm at that time too which is the number one thing you can do to avoid disease. When we have open borders, and folks come across from other countries with less hygiene education, and new strains to us, it erupts again, and will peak and wane. That is a scientific explanation. One several DOCTORS who with more study and research than you, have told me is the reason they do not vaccinate their children. You are the one calling someone stupid, you are the one calling names and saying “morons” when you are not actually as informed as you think. Using “herd” as any type of explanation shows you are not versed on anything other than talking points from some political view. Facts show that a large part of the population is harmed by the vaccinations, and you feel it is more important that you are not harmed than them. It isn’t a small faction, it is a large part of the population. There are a lot of diseases that vaccinations can cause, per a very well educated doctor working in a prominent large city hospital I spoke to during a time I researched and studied vaccines thoroughly. Why should they be forced to be sick so you have better chances? You are saying that you are more important than them. They are saying their lives are important and are making the best choices for themselves and their kids…you are spewing out of selfishness. This is a ridiculous debate. People who choose not to vaccinate are not harming you. You are a bigger threat to their health, but it is convenient to spew political hatred than to acknowledge that. Wow. Just wow. You need to read more.

      • Avery

        “Facts show that a large part of the population is harmed by the vaccinations…”

        Not if you can’t cite credible sources for those “facts”.

      • Ian Carnel

        MMR is Measles Mumps Rubella… NOT whooping cough

        Whooping Cough is Pertussis…the P in DPT or TDaP as they call it now.

        I’m actually allergic to DPT Vax but I’ve had all the others.

      • maluja

        Stay away from my child, keep your children away from my child. He is fighting cancer and will die if exposed to preventable diseases

      • Morgan O’Brien-Bledsoe

        No one wants to be anywhere near your stupid child.

      • Hannah

        Morgan: I can guarantee most people don’t want to be anywhere near an insensitive jerk like you!

        maluja: I hope your son is well soon.

      • Morgan O’Brien-Bledsoe

        You’re right and I’ve apologized. What i said was heartless and wrong. I thought they were a troll because i misread something. Again I’m sorry.

      • Judy

        You really said that about a dying child?

      • Morgan O’Brien-Bledsoe

        Oh damn you’r right. I so read that in response to someone else. I so misread it. I’m truly sorry maluja.

      • Neil Hopkins

        Fucking idiot.

      • Stacy Methvin

        Exactly my point! I was vaccinated for whooping cough (last one at age 12) they NEVER mentioned having to receive another booster until the lasted outbreaks (for which my entire family got whooping cough/ Pertussis from) Then, they tell us we need boosters throughout our lives…that they don’t last forever! Lmao…well now I have antibodies!!! And you are wrong about shingkes…it’s a virus that comes from a dormant and replicated chuckien pox

      • bmc

        Why don’t you try taking care of yourself instead of blaming others. I guarantee if I observed your health habits for a wk, I’d find them to be abysmal.

      • Avery

        “I guarantee if I observed your health habits for a wk, I’d find them to be abysmal.”

        No, you actually can’t guarantee that.

      • Jillian Carleton

        TIL: that the burning man community is brimming with people that abhor the current approach to health to the frustration of those that don’t actually know what burning man represents.

        nvm, it’s burning man and this lady obviously didn’t put two and two together.

      • JGISD

        It didn’t *weaken* your immune system, it made it overactive.

      • Anonymous Me

        I’ve been fully vaccinated my whole life and caught Shingles. Many adults had Chicken Pox long before the vaccine for it was invented. You can also catch it from a spine injury. But if you are fully vaccinated and so are your children,then if others don’t vaccinate it shouldn’t affect you because you are supposedly immune.

    • Carl Mayo

      yes, because thimerosal is good for you.

      • FD Brian

        Do you even know what that is?

      • Carl Mayo

        i know exactly what it is.
        thimerosal is a toxic mercury-based preservative used to prolong the shelf life of vaccines, as well as some other drugs prepared in liquid form.
        in my early twenties, i nearly sustained permanent eye damage because of a reaction to thimerosal in a contact lens cleaning solution given to me by my eye doctor.

        mercury is not safe in any form. vaccines would not need to have thimerosal in them if they were made only in single-dose ampules. it is only added to multi-dose vaccine bottles.

      • FD Brian

        In a word, no. Thimerosal is not mercury; it is an organic compound that contains mercury. That’s an important distinction, because it changes how the chemical is absorbed and processed inside the body. Many vaccines used to contain thimerosal as a preservative because it would prevent the growth of harmful bacteria in the vaccine medium. According to the USFDA, thimerosal was eliminated or reduced to trace amounts in most vaccines in response to growing concerns about its safety. Today, most of the vaccines recommended for children under 6 are thimerosal-free, with the exception of flu vaccines (and you can even request a thimerosal-free flu vaccine). Contrary to this meme’s assertion, most vaccines do not contain thimerosal.

        Now let’s address the second part of the statement: can thimerosal kill you? Well, it’s no secret that mercury is exceedingly bad for you, but different compounds of mercury behave in different ways. Thimerosal is a derivative of a compound called ethylmercury. The Center for Disease Control explains that ethylmercury, unlike elemental mercury and methylmercury, is broken down and eliminated by the body. It doesn’t slowly accumulate to dangerous levels; furthermore, the few vaccines that still contain thimerosal have it in exceedingly low concentrations.

        You’ve no doubt heard stories of people who claim that they or their children were made ill by a vaccine. There will always be people who react badly to certain vaccines, but it almost certainly has nothing to do with mercury. As with mammograms, vaccines represent a miniscule risk, and the benefits far outweigh it.

        One more question needs answering: if thimerosal is so harmless, why did the FDA request that vaccine manufacturers remove it from most of their products? The FDA and its European cousin, the AAP, followed a better-safe-than-sorry approach. They opted out of thimerosal in the remote chance that it was harmful, reasoning that there was little harm in being overly cautious. Unfortunately, the destructive and now discredited ex-Dr Andrew Wakefieldconfused the issue by releasing a study supposedly establishing a link between the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism. To the conspiracy-minded, the timing was too good to ignore: of course the FDA knew that vaccines cause autism; that’s why they rushed to eliminate thimerosal. By the time the dust settled on the Wakefield scandal, the damage was done. Too many parents still refuse important vaccines for their children in the mistaken belief that they pose a health risk. Subsequently, dangerous diseases that were once under control are making a roaring comeback.

      • Carl Mayo

        thank you for that detailed response. you’ve given me food for thought. i’m not anti-vaccine; i just want to know that vaccines are safe, and contain only the needed ingredients to provide immunity, without risky additives.

        what are your thoughts on squaline?

        my understanding is that squaline is added so that vaccine makers can use less of the actual vaccine, because squaline provokes a greater immune response to it.

        the problem is that squaline is so similar to myelin, (the insulating material around neural fibers) that it provokes an auto-immune response to the body’s own myelin.
        this has been linked to several degenerative neuromuscular diseases, because when myelin breaks down, electrical insulation is lost between nerve fibers, so that muscles don’t receive signals from the brain.

      • FD Brian

        Squalene is a component of some adjuvants that is added to vaccines to enhance the immune response. A naturally occurring substance found in plants, animals and humans, squalene is synthesized in the liver and circulates in the human bloodstream. It is also found in a variety of foods, cosmetics, over-the-counter medications and health supplements. Squalene is commercially extracted from fish oil – in particular shark-liver oil – and is purified from this source when used in pharmaceutical products and vaccines.

        Squalene alone is not an adjuvant, but emulsions of squalene with surfactants enhance the immune response when added to antigens. MF59, a proprietary adjuvant containing squalene, is included in a seasonal subunit influenza vaccine licensed by the Italian regulatory authority in 1997 and subsequently by several other countries. The vaccine contains about 10 mg of squalene per dose. Over 22 million doses have been distributed since that time. Reported rates of adverse events and local reactogenicity are not in excess of those that would be expected with other inactivated seasonal flu vaccines, suggesting that squalene in this vaccine poses no significant risk. This vaccine has been administered primarily to individuals aged 65 years and older, for whom the vaccine was licensed.

        Several experimental vaccines, including some pandemic flu vaccines, malaria vaccines, and various viral and bacterial vaccines, are also being developed with squalene-containing adjuvants, with the intention of enhancing immunogenicity and thereby efficacy. Clinical studies of squalene-containing vaccines have been performed in infants and neonates without evidence of safety concerns.

        A link between the health problems of Gulf-War veterans and possible presence of squalene in vaccines received by these soldiers has been suggested. One published report has suggested that some army veterans who received anthrax vaccines developed anti-squalene antibodies and that these antibodies caused disabilities. However, squalene was not added to the vaccines administered to these veterans, nor was it used in the manufacturing process. Various papers have been published outlining the technical deficiencies in that original report.

        Most adults, particularly older ones, irrespective of their history of vaccination, have naturally occurring antibodies reacting with squalene. In a clinical trial, immunization with the licensed influenza vaccine containing squalene did not affect the frequency or titre of anti-squalene antibodies.

        The Committee concurred that fears of squalene in vaccine-inducing pathological anti-squalene antibodies are unfounded. It did note, however, that the experience of squalene-containing vaccines has been primarily in older age-groups and recommended that as squalene-containing vaccines are introduced in other age-groups, careful post-marketing follow up to detect any vaccine-related adverse events needs to be performed.

  • Chris Weiss

    I have known a few people that are very hard-core about this type of thing……. Having argued the real science of the issues with several of them, I have only been able to enlighten one (1) to the point that they seek out real truth rather than believe opposition just because they don’t trust those in power (not that I do, all should be questioned in their authenticity). I find that the majority believe it with all the fervor and faith of the religions they tend to so strongly denounce (not that I am religious, either). I love that the author made mention of the chemtrail theory, because it has been driving me batshit of late.
    What I really find interesting is that theorists of this type can’t even decide what they believe these phantom conspiracies are for. They range from more mundane theories like “they are spraying to cool the Earth and combat global warming” to strangely self-defeating strategies like “The are spraying as a form of population control, to either give us cancer or make us sterile”. None have ever answered my simple question to satisfaction when I ask why they would spray for that purpose, when they breath the same air we do? The best anyone has come up with is “They have better health care that will save them from the effects”. Sometimes you just can’t get through to people no matter what logic and science you use.

    • onelonesapper

      The problem with trying to convince a conspiracy theorist that they are wrong about chemtrails is that they can say that it has happened before and they would be right. In my other post I talked a little about Operaton LAC and Operation Dew, two programs that the government was forced to admit to.

      If you move past that there is a laundry list of conspiracies that were theories and turned out to be true. The Tuskegee Airmen experiments, The experimentation that was done one the Inuits in Alaska.

      To be honest I don’t know the truth or really the conspiracy about Chemtrails because I tend to focus on other things, But the Authors way of trying to shame Conspiracy theorists for what they think falls a little short when you stop to consider the history of human experimentation by the government of the United States.
      And that is the problem with this article, the writer talks down and insultingly to conspiracy theorists because they are falling for “weak science” but at no point is the real history of human experimentation that has happened in this country mentioned.
      If that history is ignored it will happen again.

      • acupunk

        I think you have the Tuskegee syphilis experiment confused with the Tuskegee Airmen. Two very different things…

      • Chris Weiss

        First of all, lest look at Operation LAC and Operation DEW, what you are pointing out as conspiracy theories that turned out to be true. Lets start with the word “conspiracy”. It is defined as “an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons;”. Now if we apply that to the actions of the government, everything they might do to protect the country qualifies under the “surreptitious” heading as a conspiracy (they wouldn’t want other world powers to steal technology or get too far ahead that protective measures were useless), meaning that in the most benign sense, these conspiracy theories are true. The problem comes when theorists automatically attach a sinister component to to actions taken.
        In the case of the two operations you mentioned, the government released zink cadmium sulfide, over large urban areas as well as giant swaths of the U.S. This compound is a fluorescent, meant to actually show where the compound reached for the purposes of tracking the way a possible chemical attack on the U.S. would work. At the time, this compound was chosen because it was thought to be benign in its effects on the populace while providing the needed visual tracking component. As it turns out, large doses of said compound can have harmful effects, however, it would require pretty much drinking it to be so. The small amounts that people may have come in contact with would have been no more harmful than if they had released calcium chloride dust (a salt that is often included in food-stuffs and used for many other purposes) which at most can be a skin irritant to moist skin because it acts as a desiccant.
        I wont even get into “it has happened before”, because that is a fallacious argument, one does not prove the other.

      • Brian

        I quit reading when you couldn’t even define conspiracy correctly

  • onelonesapper

    The
    problem with this article is that it declines to mention that the
    reason so many conspiracy theorists believe in Chemtrails is because it
    has happened before. Except Operation LAC wasn’t airplanes dumping
    chemicals into the sky, it was chemical dispensers
    that the U.S govt. put on the roofs of low income housing in St.Louis,
    Missouri during the 50’s and 60’s. Then there was Operation Dew. You can
    read about them both on wikipedia and other places, they have been well documentated
    . When the government has admitted that they have done it in the past, it is easy to believe that they would continue human experimentation as they have done before.

    • Bloodysot

      And crop dusters have been around since the 1920s…what’s your point? The US tested aerosolized dispersion and realized that from 8 miles up, it is too hard to predict where the wind will take it.

    • Paul M

      I take your point. There’s a subtlety here; conspiracy enthusiasts seem unable or unwilling to comprehend that because small-scale programs have taken place, this does not mean that we’re being sprayed each and every day.

    • Tony Sharpe

      In my experience, anyone who references Wikipedia as a source is probably misinformed.

      • Paul M

        Wikipedia is very good for scientific articles. Good level of accuracy; certainly on a par with traditional scientific encyclopaedia.

        In my experience people who dismiss Wikipedia do so because other people do 😉 (sorry for the mild trolling)

      • JR

        No academic will accept wikipedia for a good reason. Please don’t call wiki a good scientific source.

      • Paul M

        We recommend our students don’t directly cite Wikipedia, agreed. They should use common sense and discretion, checking out an article’s talk page to see if there’s dispute.

        Wikipedia’s scholarly articles, especially scientific articles, are generally high quality and a good starting point.

      • Nathan Reeheehe Blair

        Wikipedia is actually a good hub of information. While one can’t use Wikipedia as a source itself, the site has tons of links to legitimate resources that you can read and use for projects or proving your friends wrong (:

      • Poo bear

        Rationalwiki is pretty good for a general guide to what’s pseudoscience and what isn’t.

      • Paul M

        RW needs to improve the tone and quality of a huge amount of articles tho. I’m a massive fan btw. Some of the people articles are more like Encyclopedia Dramatica entries at the mo :)

      • Eli Cabelly

        I start from wikipedia for some academic articles if I need to check on something, then go to their source and cite that instead of the wikipedia page. That being said, I have used some of the illustrations straight from wikipedia because they do a good job getting the message across.

      • Brian

        exactly, and also their illustrations are generally free to use as well

      • No academic will accept *any* encyclopedia. For a good reason. But Wikipedia has a lot of good overviews and has citations that can be very useful.

      • BioWonk

        Wikipedia is an expedient means to trace and collect sources, but considering its open access platform, it’s the sources of an entry that actually need to be read,evaluated and cited, but only if valid. Not the wiki entry itself.

    • Sandy Lorvig Mathews

      Exactly the kind of cray cray this article is talking about…..here’s your sign!!

    • Poo bear

      @Onelongsapper – You’ve been completely and utterly mislead.if you genuinely think what you’ve said is true.

    • FD Brian

      the real problem with conspiracy theorists is that they are anti government and conspiracies back up that belief system. They are SO anti government that they can’t believe the science disproving many conspiracies because then they wouldn’t be able to be so anti government. They also tend to make the exception the rule.

      • Smoktwomore

        What is more American than being anti-government?

      • Jan Civil

        Right, because when this country was established, it was a non-country with no government and all of the Constitution did was foment dissent right from the git-go. It was pro-Shays’ Rebellion and everything.

        Moron.

      • Smoktwomore

        Sarcasm

        Asshole

      • Sondra Carr

        Well, the two operations cited there weren’t governments attempting to do something to their people – they were tests designed to figure out how an impending attack by enemies would probably affect the populations. Turns out that the compounds they chose to mimic things that are really dangerous like anthrax, weren’t as safe as they thought – stupid but not conspiratorial. I always find if funny when people say “you can read about it on wikipedia!” and then when you do, it becomes apparent that they didn’t before saying that. It’s as if the operation being on wikipedia somehow backs any claims they’ve heard – if it exists, then all that’s said about it must be true.

        Let me state that I don’t believe the government is spraying us with chemicals in chem trails or making us submissive with flouride – for the record.

        But I stop short of complete dismissal of conspiracy theories because 1. there have actually been government (and other) conspiracies in which there was actual nefarious intent by probably every governing body in the world. The degree to which they enact those nefarious operations has varied of course, but how weird to dismiss it. I mean it’s happened – even if these operations cited above aren’t conspiracies – the fact is that we did do drug trials and STD trials on poor people and people of color in the past with no consent. These are facts, not “theories” of even the non-conspiratorial type.

        What is needed here is a critical eye on both sides – it’s dumb to pretend that governments are always good and always looking out for us and really, we have an obligation to check on our reps and never believe they are “leaders”. But we also have to check our own paranoia and assume at least some modicum of humanity unless otherwise proven – perhaps expecting stupidity before plotting in underground lairs?
        I’d really like to see communication, both online and off, in which there was less wholesale dismissal of others’ feelings and thoughts – they came from somewhere. And despite how these binary/ polar discussions that are all the rage these days, the reality is that most of this stuff is kind of nuanced and not at all easy to dissect. Can we all just kind of acknowledge that – you know, the way most mature adults throughout history used to.

      • Sondra Carr

        Shoot – I had a “2.” when I started writing that, but it eludes me now. Apologies.

    • Jan Civil

      Operation LAC wasn’t ‘human experimentation’, it was believed that this would not make people sick and it is still believed it didn’t.
      The point of it was to observe dispersal.

      Operation LAC wasn’t airplanes? The U.S. Air Force loaned the Army a C-119, “Flying Boxcar”, and it was used to disperse zinc cadmium sulfide by the ton in the atmosphere over the United States.[4]

      So the connection with ‘Chemtrails’ as a plot to take your mind over is a bit thin and you seem confused as to your facts as I try to verify them so far.

    • Marcus Henry Weber

      The problem with your logic is the problem with conspiracist logic: Evidence for a mundane, provable thing does not = evidence for your conspiracy theory.

    • Since when has Wikipedia been the font of all truth? An online encyclopaedia, that anyone can write, and anyone can change, without anyone’s permission. Find me a credible source and I may take you seriously.

  • Edward Krebbs

    One short explanation is that the world is becoming so complex that people can’t keep up. Being a conspirist gives one a sense of having control by being one of the few who truly understand.

    • Edward Krebbs

      Alternate proposed explanation:

      Every time the NSA gets caught with its hand in the cookie jar only for the govt response to be that “there is nothing to see here” it makes the other conspiracy theories more believable.

      Every time a govt whistleblower is denounced as jeopardizing national security, it makes other conspiracy theories more believable.

      And to make it plain that I’m talking on both sides of the aisle, every time we’re told there is “clear, incontrovertible proof” of WMDs including biologic weapons and yellowcake uranium, the other theories become more believable.

  • Bryon Anderson

    But the holocaust was fake no evidence shows the type gas used was ever there not to mention their tour even states multiple gas chambers were built after the war. To be honest the Jews came up with the ultimate hustle free country, they control ours and many nations money supply, they control all forms of media politicians even have the most powerful lobby AIPAC that literally answers only to a foreign country and have attacked America multiple times they should have a month long celebration of Hitler man wish I was Jewish. But you cannot ignore the real men behind the power this guy is trying to hard with the if you believe you must be crazy we have this thing called history and everything he stated that was not true already has happened and even been documented so I guess no need to worry about fluoride, GMO, 911 committed by Arabs who died then apparently was found alive back home.

    • TenchCoxe

      Translation please? I don’t speak batshit loco.

      • Paul M

        Basically he hates Jews and Arabs.

      • Bryon Anderson

        How about you do some basic research.

      • Bryon Anderson

        So you wont do any research about it provided not by revisionist but by
        Ashkenazi Jews who each decade lowers the amount to now 1.5 million last
        I checked. If you want ppl to believe don’t build the chimney
        supposedly the infamous ovens capable of burning a body every 12 minutes
        and not connect it like they did. And dont have signs that read gas
        chambers built after the war…if you plan on fooling the world on an
        event illegal to discuss they should have put a lil more effort into not
        my fault their lazy.

    • Mike Charette

      you are a poison to society.

      • Bryon Anderson

        How about you research my claims 1st before condemning them. Just like 911 I can either believe a political hack or I can believe architects. You do know throughout history they are the only race to be kicked out of every country they settled in you would be surprised what you learn if you just read.

      • Mike Charette

        There is no need to research the validity of what you said. It is false. The holocaust happened. Millions upon millions of people were tortured and killed, and when you say something so inconceivably stupid as to refute the contrary you are just that. You want to soapbox some spoon-fed wacko bullshit on the internet, fine, hop on and join the rest of the poison like yourself. Just do us all a favor and never get into a position of power. Because it’s sociopathic lunatics like you that made the Holocaust happen in the first place.

      • Bryon Anderson

        So you wont do any research about it provided not by revisionist but by Ashkenazi Jews who each decade lowers the amount to now 1.5 million last I checked. If you want ppl to believe don’t build the chimney supposedly the infamous ovens capable of burning a body every 12 minutes and not connect it like they did. And dont have signs that read gas chambers built after the war…if you plan on fooling the world on an event illegal to discuss they should have put a lil more effort into not my fault their lazy.

      • Mike Charette

        You are a pathetic, misguided fool. Stop talking to me.

      • Bryon Anderson

        You replied to me not my fault basic learning is oblivious to you.

  • Seth Williams

    This article makes a completely false statement. I said that the Flu virus is made up of DEAD virus. That is partially UNTRUE. The shot (the one you get in the arm) is a killed virus while the intranasal is a live or sometimes modified live virus. The article talks about falsehoods but then presents its own. I typically don’t mind articles from Forward Progressive but at least make sure you are telling the truth.

    • Slartibast

      You are wrong in a right way, and right in a wrong way.
      No virus is live, as in living. It is a passive entity until it comes in contact with DNA in a cell.
      A flue shot can be made of amino acids that mimics aminoacids or sites on the surface of the real virus. So you do not need viruses to make a flue shot. You need something to trigger the imunsystem to learn the “form”, prepare for the real thing.

      • Seth Williams

        You have killed viruses and modified-live viruses and live viruses when it comes to vaccines. Trust me, I work in vaccine research. You are right that that SOME vaccines work that way, in others there is such a small does of a virus or a modified live virus that it does the same thing. Not all vaccines work the same way, hence why you have the different types.

      • Slartibast

        Doubtful, with all the errors and bad reasoning

      • Seth Williams

        Believe what you want. I actually work in vaccine research, you don’t.

  • DanthePeacenik

    This article is brilliant, except for one point which I notice a LOT of liberal/progressive writers putting in. GMOs. I’ve heard anti-GMO people compared to the batshit crazy of the 9/11 truthers and chemtrail believers, and that’s just wrong. Wanting to know what’s in our food and not put something in our bodies which we believe could harm us is not crazy. Bottom line: I don’t believe that GMOs are some sort of crazy government conspiracy to make us all grow three nipples or whatever, but I also don’t believe that they’re good for you.

    • V_ger

      Maybe you’d be more likely to believe that , since the early 2000’s Monsanto has been poisoning our food with GMO’s and, in 2004 (under Bush) the Millennium Challenge Corporation was legislated by Congress to organize corporations giving food aid to countries. Sounds good on first thought until you understand that part of MCC rules governing food aid distribution forces those countries to accept Monsanto’s GMO seeds in order to get the food aid. THis clearly gives corporations like Monsanto, et al, carte blanch to poison crops across the globe for their own personal profit. The law further forbids countries to buy non-GMO seeds from their own local farmers. Obama recently signed the “Monsanto Protection Act” which further cements Monsanto’s powerful position in the world. The law was written by Monsanto, legislated by Congress and outright prevents SCOTUS from doing anything to stop Monsanto from forcing it’s hand on farmers and consumers. This is no “conspiracy theory”, this is fact. Everyone should be up in arms over this.

      • Paul M

        What do mean “poisoning”?

        GMO = good
        Patenting food = Bad

        Why can’t people separate the two things?

      • JGISD

        Let me ask you a question: Did you drive to the store the last time you bought organic kale? If so, you deposited far more toxins in the air in a single shopping trip than you will get rid of by avoiding GMOs for a month.

      • Paul M

        I’m not arguing with you at all :)

      • Rex

        If you’re going to post something that you know sounds bat shit crazy and then say “no conspiracy theory, this is fact” then post a link or some citations. Email forwards from your aunt don’t count…

      • JGISD

        Let me ask you something: Did you drive to the store the last time you bought organic kale? If so, you deposited far more toxins in the air in a single shopping trip than you will get rid of by avoiding GMOs for a month.

      • Dawniel Kupsch

        This protestation is exactly the point of the article. The GMO issue exemplifies the success story of the conspiracy theory married to pseudoscience with a dash of anti-intellectualism and a whole lot of ‘Science R scary!’. The corporate shenanigans of Monsanto is reprehensible. However the science is amazing and potentially life saving for the entirely of the human race. The science mimics what nature does on its own in large part. Traits are isolated and replicated to increase yield, tolerate drought, and resist pests. You guys have this ‘let’s go back to nature’ thing which sure sounds quaint- but you have no comprehension that ‘Nature’ is doing its best to kill us off as a species, and the ‘evil’ scientists are in the trenches trying to prevent that from happening. And personally I have a less than romantic view of going back to the ‘before’ part of our history where science had not yet figured out immunology, transportation, or mass production.

      • Erin Loving

        We also must remember that just about EVERYTHING we eat has been modified genetically, even the organic food. So really, the whole argument is asinine.

      • Smoktwomore

        If you don’t have a romantic view of the way the world was then perhaps you have not pondered the idea of bitter sweet. Maybe life is more cherished if it’s fragile. Maybe a journey can be more rewarding if more difficult. And maybe taking the time to craft something with your hands because you had the skill and knowledge makes it worth more.

      • MaineJen

        Spoken like someone who has never had a taste of that fragile existence before we had vaccines and drought-resistant crops. Dying of measles…starving during the famine. No thanks.

      • Smoktwomore

        Humans have made it this far through history without those things. You’re a fool to think they are essential to survival and happiness.

      • Jan Civil

        You’re the fool. You aren’t even addressing points. I for one think that not being subject to these diseases having been inoculatated against is a happy thing and that IS OBVIOUSLY about survival.

      • Smoktwomore

        Just because you’ve been inoculated and didn’t catch a disease and didn’t die doesn’t mean you’re happier than the person dying from disease.

      • MaineJen

        …..so a dead person can be happier than a live one? Okay, now I’m backing away slowly.

      • Smoktwomore

        “Dying”

      • MaineJen

        Yeah…cause that’s less crazy.

      • Adam Raymond Ravenhurst

        I understand what you’re saying completely. I think that the past three hundred years have brought remarkable advances in human technology, and that there is much to be saved from it, but also much which could be cast aside. Antiseptic and antibiotics are amazing, useful applications of knowledge, atomic bombs and automatic rifles not as much.

      • Adam Raymond Ravenhurst

        This is about where I stand: utterly against Monsanto as a corporate citizen holding a near monopoly on seed stock and their influence on government officials due to financial backing. They really don’t help the public perception of genetically modified foods.

      • Jan Civil

        There is no Monsanto Protection Act. That was The Farmer Assurance Provision, a rider in the emergency budget through Sept 30 2013. It was written so it did not supersede the Plant Protection Act which goes back a ways.

        It clarified the law so: a farmer using a biotech product could not be stopped planting just through ONGOING LITIGATION.
        If a biotech crop had already been approved (or deregulated) by the USDA and a court reversed that approval, the provision directed the Secretary of Agriculture to grant temporary deregulation status at the request of a grower or seed producer, to allow growers to continue the cultivation of the crop while legal challenges to the safety of those crops would still be underway.[7]

        Cf., Monsanto v Geertson Seed, a case which goes back to the mid-oughts. Both sides claimed victory in that case BTW.

        This rider was in the House budget originally and reiterated in the Senate, per Roy Blunt.

        It in no way ‘cements Monsanto’s poweful position in the world’. There is no mention of particulars.

        You aren’t dealing in facts, you are spreading propaganda, about something you can’t be arsed to check.

      • Jan Civil

        Another problem with your assertion is, Monsanto is not “poisoning our food with GMO’s”/sic. That’s just a belief you picked up along the line somewhere and decided it sounded so righteous you’d spread it given half a chance.

      • Jan Civil

        “…that part of MCC rules governing food aid distribution forces those countries to accept Monsanto’s GMO seeds in order to get the food aid.”

        I do doubt that. Look, either you can cite that bit or you can’t. I’m pretty confident it’s bullshit.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Oy. It’s too tiring to refute all that needs it in that tirade. Please, someone else do it…

    • JGISD

      ” I don’t believe that GMOs are some sort of crazy government conspiracy to make us all grow three nipples or whatever, but I also don’t believe that they’re good for you.”

      GMOs account for a fraction of 1% of our toxic load. Living in houses, driving cars, burning fossil fuels as our primary fuel source, and living better through toxic chemicals for nearly everything we manufacture, clean, etc, provides over 60%. Our focus is misplaced.

      • >GMOs account for a fraction of 1% of our toxic load.

        GMOs account for 0% of our toxic load. They are not toxic. They are food.

      • JGISD

        ALL food is toxic. It’s all a question of degrees.

    • BioWonk

      This whole “right to know” slogan is merely an excuse. Opponents to so-called GMO only want to instigate a de facto boycott based on the fear-mongering of manufacturing an association of GMO with “toxic”, “unnatural” and “unhealthy” in contradiction to all available robust evidence from credible sources and the consensus of relevant science researchers.

      Labels exist for no other reason than to convey information. So, exactly what information do consumers feel they need to know by only labeling GMO and not other products? Why so selective?

      And if it is a “right to know” based on health and safety, then the real target should be the organic produce. Organic produce has been traced to outbreaks of Salmonella and E.coli contamination which has made people sick, and has even killed a few. 51 people died after eating contaminated organic brussel sprouts. This has *never* been the case for any GMO produce.

      So, again, if it really was a “right to know” then labeling advocates would have *started* with that argument instead of settling on it after years in which their claims of safety concerns with GMO had been soundly trounced due to their lack of evidence and the plethora of evidence to the contrary.

      It is nothing more than the attempt to forge another false association of labeling=democratic in the same way that vaccine opponents try to claim a “right to choose” in creating a public health hazard or how bigotry is obfuscated under the excuse of “religious freedom.”

      This “right to know” is purely political theatrics with no basis in fact and no foundation for necessity. It is as disingenuous, misinformative and misleading as everything else from this particular anti-science community’s rhetoric.

      • hyperzombie

        Great comment +10!

      • cable1977

        It’s always humorous to me how one conspiracy advocate likes to distance themselves from the “real crazies”.

      • Smoktwomore

        Consumers just want to know if a product is GMO or not. I don’t see how such a smart person like yourself has trouble understanding that? That’s good information for a consumer being conscious of what they are buying. What else do you think we are forgetting to label? Also are you claiming that no GMO produce has ever been contaminated? Because I call bullshit on that. My primary reason for not wanting to buy GMO is because the seed companies try to patent GM seeds and limit the supply of non patented seeds. I feel it is fundamentally fucked up to allow people to own something like seeds.

      • Jan Civil

        Because the seed companies ‘try to patent’? And you believe this started with GMO or even Monsanto.
        How utterly stupid.

      • Smoktwomore

        I’m not talking about where the practice began. Just who is doing it. Obviously.

        How utterly stupid. And rude.

      • Smoktwomore

        I never even mentioned Monsanto. You’re all up and down this page defending them. Do you work for Monsanto? Or do you just hate anyone concerned about what they consume.

      • Joe Black

        Only a close minded individual, like yourself, would call someone stupid for being concerned with the fact that big companies are taking complete control of seeds. I worked on farms in Arkansas and even the farmers were concerned with this growing issue. They are no longer allowed to own their own seeds and if they get caught holding onto excess “patented seeds” they face massive fines and even jail time. People like you and the author of this article (and the rest of the people posting hating comments on this post) are the reason why our civil liberties are being taken from us by the day. The problem with close minded people is that they are, in fact, the problem. When some new idea comes out– that is “different” than what you already know— you all are the first to let you hating opinions be known. It must be a sad life you live thinking that nothing beyond what we already know is possible. I completely understand why you all think these things and I do not hate them at all. But for some reason you just can’t let people think for themselves without giving them a piece of your ignorant mind.

      • BioWonk

        You cherry-picked my post and ignored or refused to acknowledge those points you couldn’t refute.Typical.

        So again, due to the deliberate misinformation campaign of “GMO” (not even the accurate term. It’s transgenic) opponents, there is no “good information for a consumer being conscious of what they are buying.”

        And as an example of how “GMO” opponents willfully disregard health and safety issues with their own food of choice, I provided 3 specific examples of organic produce causing illness and death due to contamination. You cited none for “GMO” produce being traced to causing the same, but still called bullshit.

        if you expect to be taken seriously, learn to back up your claims when you make them.

      • hyperzombie

        Because I call bullshit on that. My primary reason for not wanting to buy GMO is because the seed companies try to patent GM seeds and limit the supply of non patented seeds.

        No one is limiting the supply of non patented seed, farmers just don’t buy them much, because they don’t offer an advantage. it is as simple as that.

        I feel it is fundamentally fucked up to allow people to own something like seeds.

        WTH, I am sure you mean patents on seed stock, cause every farmer owns seed and there are most likely a bunch in your fridge right now. Patents on plants and crops have existed sine the 1930s this is not new.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        And as you pointed out, not all seeds are protected by patents, and farmers/growers/gradeners can buy the non-protected seeds.

      • hyperzombie

        yep, and if you discovered a new type of tomato in your yard, you could patent it and make a few bucks,

    • Alieninvader

      Agreed. I love how so many liberals, who believe that industries need better regulation, want to give GMO companies a free, unregulated pass.

      • trevorkidd

        Who said anything about giving GMO companies a free, unregulated pass?

        You do realize that new crops derived through all the other plant propagation techniques are not tested or regulated in the way that GMOs are? Do you know what those various methods are? Do you realize that the major examples of unsafe plants hitting the dinner table are all from traditional breeding (eg the Lenape Potato). Eating food that was derived through conventional breeding, radiation, chemical mutation breeding, etc all comes with a risk. Because GMOs are tested, and the changes are known it likely carries the least risk.

    • trevorkidd

      Anti-GMO people are the most misinformed people I have ever met. 9/11 truthers, chemtrail believers, anti-vaxers, creationists, and climate change deniers all drive me crazy, but none of them seem to be as completely filled to the brim with lies and as misinformed about basic science as the anti-GMO people I have met over the last couple years.

  • TenchCoxe

    The title of this article presupposes that liberals not only are not or cannot be conspiracy theorists, but also that they can be well-meaning.

  • Dave

    Bashing The Mind Unleashed, eh? You’re that “special” kind of stupid, aren’t you?

    • Poo bear

      The Mind Unleashed is indeed, as stupid as it gets.

    • BioWonk

      We understand your passionate defense of the site. The Mind Unflushed uses appeals to emotion and the illusion of empowerment through the propagation of “censored knowledge” to make people too stupid to understand science feel that they are “special.”

  • AnnieH

    I agree with a lot of things in this article but I want to say that I love organic food and vinegar is the shit for a lot of home remedies and cleaning. I won’t spray it on you or the sky, though, don’t worry. None of this makes me bat shit crazy. Just saying.

    I wholeheartedly agree that not focusing on the right things like gerrymandering and Citizens United is a very dangerous thing. I have several raging anti vaxxer friends who are part of the organic militia who think that the whole Monsanto issue is way more important than trying to fix the real issues because they think there is no point because all politicians are corrupt. They don’t realize that things like campaign finance reform and controlling gerrymandering would actually work towards a less corrupt system that might actually end up putting more controls over Monsanto going crazy with their food patents. It’s very frustrating but I don’t know if we will ever get through to them. I have tried, countless times. They just put a wall up and see me as blind and stupid (oh, the irony).

  • Gunther Gunderson

    the word conspiracy implies that their belief system is false. its a cheap way for close-minded people to discredit someone who knows more than you. if you are unable to open your mind than don’t ridicule someone else’s beliefs. people who are “conspiracy minded” should really be called CRITICAL THINKERS. while the rest of the population is controlled to think inside of the box.

    i’ve spent the last 9 years researching stuff that sheeple are unwilling to. so that would mean i spent 9 years critically thinking about reality in a different way than you have. my experience cannot be taken away, the information cannot be taken away. you can demonize people who are critical thinkers but to them you just look like a babbling fool.

    when you have spent 9 years critically thinking about reality I’m sure your mindset would be different than it is now. its okay simple minded folk, keep researching because knowledge is power and you cannot ever have that knowledge taken away by anyone. not even by the person who wrote this article. in my experience in 2005 when i started this research people were totally asleep to reality. as we move into the next age the awakened people are blossoming very rapidly! damn it feels good to be aware of reality!

    • hyperzombie

      Wow, you really dove head first into the Kool-aid, and wasted 9 years of your life doing it.

  • Chuck

    Nice schtick to grab some market share. I’m quite sure you’re cashing your advertising checks too. It’s all good … & look, you’ve really got them talking! lol

  • Stephen Barlow

    Now THAT’S ENTERTAINMENT!

  • Alieninvader

    I am about 80% in agreement with this post, but I have seen a dangerous flip side to this. Many liberals are choosing to blindly accept pharmaceutical companies and Monsanto as being innocent victims of the conspiracy theorists. As for vaccines, that’s stupid. Pharmaceutical companies don’t get rich on vaccines. Unfortunately, though, there is plenty of scientific evidence showing pharmaceutical companies hiding data that proves that many of their long-term use drugs are dangerous.

    As for GMOs, the jury is still out and even many liberals seem to be glomming on to the idea that they are safe, despite the fact that we don’t have decades of scientific trials proving so.

    • hyperzombie

      despite the fact that we don’t have decades of scientific trials proving so.

      3 decades and counting, as of now, how many more decades do we need?

      • Alieninvader

        I’ve never seen a 30 year trial. Links, please.

      • hyperzombie

        30 year trial.

        ???? Are you saying that we need to lock someone up in a room and feed them nothing but GMOs for 30 years, to satisfy your insane safety concerns?

        Over 30 years of study and not one credible study finding any harm.

      • Alieninvader

        Insane safety concerns? Really? Cancer rates have dramatically increased over the last 30 years. I’d like to find out why. Maybe we could look at our food sources, for one.

      • hyperzombie

        Cancer rates have dramatically increased over the last 30 years.

        The overall cancer rate is down since 1996 when GMOs were introduced to the public.

        (check it out)

        So I guess, using your logic, GMOs cure cancer.

      • Alieninvader

        Apparently, I can’t post the CDC links I’m trying to post, so I’ll just say this.

        Since 1996 is not three decades.

        Several key cancer rates are up.

        I am not saying with certainty that GMOs are to blame for anything. I am pro-science. Give me science, not anecdotes.

      • hyperzombie

        Since 1996 is not three decades.

        GMO studies preceded the release of the product by about 2 decades. So yes there is over 30 years of testing.

        Several key cancer rates are up.

        So GMOs only cause some cancers and cure others, or is it the other way around? Or maybe it is the growth in the organic industry causing cancer, they use mutagenic copper compounds to fight diseases.

        I am not saying with certainty that GMOs are to blame for anything.

        Well that is a start… :) and you are still discussing the matter, so you’re not a zealot. You haven’t called me a corporate troll or a shill yet, so that is a plus.

        I am pro-science. Give me science, not anecdotes.

        Me too, but sadly no links allowed.
        First rule of science: correlation does not = causation.

      • trevorkidd

        What are these key cancer rates, and why do you think that the increase of those specific types of cancers would be linked to food?

      • Slartibast

        Or our oil and plastic use..

    • trevorkidd

      “As for GMOs, the jury is still out”

      The jury is still out how? As every major scientific organization disagrees with you, what is it that they are getting wrong?

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        No, every major scientific organization does not agree, on anything, let alone this. Belief and fact are two different things.

      • trevorkidd

        Every major scientific organization agrees on all kinds of things. Do they agree on the specifics of GMOs? Probably not. Do some of them argue that the jury is still out in terms of the safety of GMOs? No, because the evidence is completely one-sided. Every major scientific organization from the AAAS, AMA, Royal Society, National Academy of Sciences, European Commission, to the WHO agrees on this. To disagree would require them to abandon the carefully accumulated mountain of scientific evidence on the issue.

  • FD Brian

    for you Gunther Gunderson.

    Myth #2: The flu shot contains dangerous ingredients, such as mercury, formaldehyde and antifreeze. (Not exactly, and the ingredients aren’t dangerous.)

    Single dose-shots of the flu vaccine and the flu vaccine nasal sprays do not contain any mercury compounds. The multi-dose flu shot does contain a preservative called thimerosal, which breaks down into 49% ethylmercury and used to prevent bacterial contamination of the vaccine container. Ethylmercury, as I’ve discussed before, is processed differently by the body than methylmercury, the neurotoxin that can build up in the body and is found in fish. (Keep in mind the difference a letter can make in chemistry: methanol is anti-freeze while ethanol is a Chardonnay.) Ethylmercury is made of larger molecules that cannot enter the brain andexits the body within a week.

    There is no danger in receiving a vaccine with thimerosal – they’re given all over the world and it’s been extensively studied, even for cumulative effects on children over several years. And, keep in mind, if you’re just one of those paranoid types, you can easily request and get a flu shot without the preservative.

    Formaldehyde is used in safely small amounts in several flu vaccines (Fluarix, FluLaval, Agriflu and Fluzone) to inactivate the virus so it cannot cause disease. It is not in other influenza vaccines (Afluria, FluMist and Fluvirin). Formaldehyde also occurs naturally in fruits and vegetables even is produced by the human body for a variety of functions, including making amino acids. The amounts of formaldehyde in these vaccines vary from 5 µg per dose (Fluarix) to 25 µg per dose (FluLaval) to 100 µg per dose (Fluzone). For reference, a pear contains about 39 to 60 mg/kg of formaldehyde (100 µg = 0.1 mg, so pears contains approximately 39,000 to 60,000 µg/kg) A typical pear weighs about 220g, or 0.22 kg. That means a single pear (0.22 kg) would contain 0.22 times the 39 to 60 mg/kg, or 8.6 to 13.2 mg (8600 to 13200 µg). (Meanwhile, a single dried shiitake mushroom contains 100-406 mg/kg of formaldehyde.) (Meanwhile, a single dried shiitake mushroom contains 100-406 mg/kg of formaldehyde.)

    The claim of antifreeze being in vaccines comes from the use of octylphenol ethoxylate (Triton X-100) (in Fluzone) or octoxynol-10 (Triton X-100) (in Fluarix) used to inactivate those viruses or to purify other vaccines. Polyethylene glycol by itself is one component of antifreeze but is not antifreeze itself, just as water is a component of antifreeze. But these are not the same as polyethylene glycol and involve the use of Triton X-100 as a splitting agent, which has beenshown to be safe. Learn more about specific components of flu vaccines here, but remember, again that ONE LETTER can make a huge difference in what you’re talking about.

    • Barbara D Holtzman

      Thank you so much for this lovely explanation!

  • Mike Charette

    You want conspiracy theories, check out Michael Cole on WWE! That guy never shuts up about em

  • JoAnna Luffman

    What fascinates me is the number of otherwise stable people I know, on both sides that believe crackpot theories. The anti-vax movement isn’t just in the anti-government Right, it’s the uber-crunchy -Left as well. Same with the GMO hate. Stupidity sadly isn’t monopolized by any part of the political spectrum.

  • Marc D

    Totally agree! Conspiracy theories and pseudoscience are targeted at both sides of the political spectrum. The right has Benghazi, the left has 9-11. The right denies global warming, the left claims GMO’s cause cancer. There’s always someone who knows how to exploit a bogeyman–be it big-government, or big-business–to make a buck. Science and logic must come first because your politics will not protect you from the scam.

  • Lumen

    The one thing I think the Climate Denialists have contributed to all this is they have provided an amusingly convenient shorthand for illustrating the thought process of modern anti-science conspiracies. The anti-vaccination and anti-GMO proponents really gets worked up when someone points out the similarities in their logic to climate deniers. Bad arguments are bad arguments, regardless of what motivates them.

  • Smoktwomore

    I remember in an article someone claimed GMOs will continue to mutate without manipulation. If true, does this worry any of you claiming eating GMO free is a waste. Also what are your opinions on Organic? Are we ingesting poisonous chemicals from the herbicides and pesticides?

    • trevorkidd

      All living things can mutate. The original pink grapefruit stems from one mutated limb on one grapefruit tree in a Florida Orchard in 1907. They have simply cloned that mutated limb countless times since all over the world (and then in 1968 Rio Red grapefruit was created by bombarding seeds with thermal neutron radiation). Neither were subject to testing, as they would have been if a scientist used an exact method to place a single gene that is well understood into an exact location to create a genetically engineered crop.

      My opinion of organic: despite much of being produced by well-meaning farmers, it is surrounded by pseudo-science and produces lower yields. Lower yields means that more land is required which results in me ranking it as worse in terms of the environmental impact.

      As to ingestion of poisons, read the work of Bruce Ames on the pesticides that are found naturally in plants.

  • Smoktwomore

    What do antisemitism and holocuast denialism have to do with the mind unleashed? Have they come out and made statements or written antisemetic articles?

  • lu minati

    You are a piece of trash.

  • Slartibast

    Wow that “The Mind Unleashed” page was scary manipulative. This is political and social dangerous.
    Who is working to remove critical thinking from schools… I think it is from many different sources.

  • Mike Rothschild

    The far left and far right have much more in common than either side would like to believe – not the least of which is a predilection to be taken in by insane conspiracy theories.

    • It’s like they’re the opposite ends of a horseshoe, nearly meeting again in the middle.

  • n_djinn

    I hate the mind unleashed so much. You are right on, it is duping people left and right (no pun intended). I have research so many of their poorly written “articles” and fund nothing or less than nothing, contradictive information in their sources. I hate them so much.

  • Marcus Henry Weber

    Here’s my impression of a lot of commenters: “I like the article, except it criticizes my favorite conspiracy theory, which I will now begin to promote with pseudoscience and half-truths.”

    • Barbara D Holtzman

      LOL. Made me laugh! Completely right.

  • Carl Hays

    Interesting article and discussion. However, I think it’s important to be wary of writers who lead off with the old “conspiracy theorist” ad hominem attack. An ad hominem attack is the easy way of discrediting someone who disagrees with you. If someone dissents from the “mainstream” view then it’s much simpler to smear them with “crackpot” labels than to actually look at the evidence. After all, no one wants to be associated with a “pseudoscientist.” I have no comment on whether vaccines have a downside, chemtrails are streaking through our skies or lizard aliens disguised as humans are occupying the White House. But the one thing I do know something about–water fluoridation–can be summed up as follows: a bad public health policy supported by very flawed science. When I first became aware back in the 90’s there were a group of people against fluoridation besides General Ripper from “Dr. Strangelove,” I assumed like most people–and the writer of this article–they were nutjobs and decided to write an article debunking them. But when I actually did the scientific research–and by the way, I’m a former biology major and current non-fiction science book reviewer for “Booklist” magazine–I realized just how shoddy the science supporting this policy really was. There has never been a single double blind study proving water fluoridation reduces cavities, for instance, and industrialized countries that don’t fluoridate, such as most of Europe, have the same or better rates of toothy decay. After recently reading a very scientifically grounded book called “The Case Against Fluoride” by three environmental toxicologists, I saw just how absurd this health policy really is. I can only conclude that the whole “conspiracy theorist” argument against fluoridation dissenters acts like a pair of jumbo sized blinders that keeps otherwise intelligent people from reconsidering the evidence.

  • Chris

    I wish we could blame that shit on money. Unfortunately, most of those conspiracy theorists and writers for pages like The Mind Unleashed are probably just legitimately a little cray cray.

  • Anthony Vincent

    .. your opinion, manny. you do not click in with being a progressive and don’t wear that badge too proudly, since you do not deserve it. sounds to me like you’re just plain jealous and that posturing I read between the lines above is a rather weak ‘we’re better than them’ stance. pathetic.

  • Swen.Ardere

    Speaking of which, it’s a bit hard to take anyone seriously, who calls himself Manny Schewitz.

  • Narbig Enoals

    Dear idiot,
    Fyi a vaccine is a weakened version of a virus not a dead virus, also they contain retro-viruses depending on the “cocktail” the transient substrate in this country is mercury and in California where people think they are aware it is liquid aluminum. Both are known toxin and have serious side effects. Further more when you infect half the population with a weakened viral strain the other half gets ill from the known fact that all viruses evolve in your body at a rate of generation increase around 5000-1 allowing for “mutated” strains to emerge new and vicious on a unsuspecting population. Its saddens me to see you trying to build up your page (cash cow) by trying to defame people only stating what they believe, whilst using the same tactics you attempt to discredit these other websites/facebook pages. Weak just weak, please never do this again it is people like you that make me lose hope in this world.
    Sincerely an actual immunologist
    PS: people with mercury and or aluminum injected into their bodies into their bodies have a lower iq then those who don’t. Please do research before sharing your idiocy as fact.
    PPS: People are just now learning what memes are they get excited just like you in sharing this opinion based article, so you know please again research!!!
    PPPS: When you comment this ass-hole gets your email and this is where spam comes from!!!!

    • “Fyi a vaccine is a weakened version of a virus not a dead virus”

      Some vaccines are weakened (attenuated); others are dead. This mistake alone is enough to disregard everything you say.

      • Barbara D Holtzman

        Then there’s the fact that “liquid aluminum” would be melted aluminum, which would be really hot…

    • cable1977

      “in California where people think they are aware it is liquid aluminum”

      Think? Not quite. Wow….here’s a hint – take a basic chemistry class where you learn something about the difference between atoms (mercury and aluminum) and molecules (thimerosal and aluminum hydroxide or phosphate).

      You see, when an atom of one element joins with an atom of another element, the chemical properties of the molecule change dramatically. That’s why an aluminum based adjuvant is not the same as “liquid aluminum”. If someone were injected with liquid aluminum, they would instantaneously have major problems since they’d be getting injected with something around 1200 degrees Farenheit. Just out of curiosity, if you go swimming in the ocean, do you think you’re swimming in liquid sodium and liquid chlorine because the salt that makes up the ocean is sodium chloride?

      “Sincerely an actual immunologist”

      HAHAHAHAHAHA. How about you regale us all with some of your myriad publications? I’m curious where you got your medical degree since you seem to have flunked Chem 101.

      P.S. Why don’t you provide some actual citations for the various “facts” you claim? Apparently, wherever you do your “research” is not a very reliable source.

  • Narbig Enoals

    Oh and from a purely evolutionary standpoint we need to allow people to just get sick and die otherwise we will weaken our species until our children basically born with Aids. But if people wish to be ignorant then enjoy!!!

  • MLR

    I don’t find myself agreeing with you often but on this one I do. I’ve actually almost liked a page until I realized it was subtly right-wing.

  • Manny Hagman

    Thank you for this. I consider myself to be very liberal and get sick to my stomach reading the conspiracy stuff (I try to avoid it as much as I can)

    I’ve found the same anti Semitic drivel in a lot of this stuff.

    There is an absolute rejection of scientific reasoning and historical method.

    Honestly I can’t tell the left from the right very much these days with this stuff. A lot of fear, misinformation and a mistrust for science seems to be par for the course.

    The sad part to me isn’t that this crap is out there, but how many people actually believe in it. IMO an alarming amount of people simply lack critical thinking skills and are scientifically illiterate.

  • Katie Jane

    How about not wanting your kids vaccine schedule to be herd like. I don’t know if it’s beneficial to health to have 6 shot vilest continues for infants. I am pregnant and horrified by the list provided by my doctor. I want to protect my child from disease and greedy drug companies. It’s hard to know who to trust in today’s world.

    • Trust evidence. Distrust people who feed you scary stories without evidence. Your kids will get more ‘toxins’ in them from just living their daily lives than they will from *all* the vaccines combined.

  • tennisnut

    thank god somebody is saying this. from the right or from the left: investigate ALL bullshit posts and things on the internet before sharing. educate yourselves. people from both sides and everywhere are attempting to corrupt our minds for some reason or another. don’t drink the kool aid. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS SAYING STUFF YOU WANT TO HEAR! those things need serious investigation.

  • Caroline Kozar Nordlund

    Just keep sticking your head in the sand!!!

  • blake minnerly

    It is interesting to consider who, by axiom, is capable of advancing a “conspiracy theory” and who is not.

    All individuals and all scientific, governmental and economic institutions perceive reality through the lens of a world view to some degree. That lens inevitably leads them to interpret that reality in ways that at least partially reflect their personal agendas. Thus, in every realm, there are those more or less inclined to bend the information they perceive into the shape required to protect and advance their world view.

    What intrigues me is how the cultural, political and economic power of beholder changes the perceived legitimacy of theories they advance.
    If a group or individual is relatively low on the cultural totem pole, their ideas can be labeled conspiracy. If they are a major player in the marketplace of ideas via their political or economic power, they cannot. For example, no one, then or now, described the theory that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction a conspiracy theory, in spite of the fact that the claim clearly required a highly selective and skewed interpretation of the available information and was long clung to after substantial evidence to the contrary began to pile up. (Examples of this kind are plentifully available on all sides of the political spectrum, BTW.)

    It is my belief, therefore, that the label “conspiracy theory” says more about the degree of power possessed by those so labelled than it does the relative rationality of their beliefs.

  • Wachinagi

    I’m fairly liberal in my leanings, so I’m a bit shocked to see that the opinion is that liberals seem to be the ones who believe the anti-vaccination BS. I am 150% PRO vaccines; they are scientifically proven to work. I don’t believe that anything is being sprayed from airplanes, and instead believe it to be (And I am correct in this) condensation trails. The only people I’ve ever spoken to who are anti-vaccination, or believe the spraying conspiracy have been conservatives. They believe vaccinations are a government conspiracy, and that the planes are spraying to control us and keep us more docile. I’ve never met nor heard of a liberal who believes either of those things. That’s not to say there aren’t any, just that I’ve never met them. Liberals in my experience tend to research things and try to understand them. They see inherent contradictions such as “Hey, if those planes ARE spraying, wouldn’t we see the people in charge of such a program outside wearing protective clothes and gas masks? How can they avoid breathing the same air as we do?” Whereas conservatives (And not all of them) just watch Fox news and repeat whatever they hear as gospel truth. “A school in Oregon is taking peanut butter away due to allergy concerns. IS this actually just part of Obama’s agenda to undermine American traditions and values?” (Actual Fox news story, which conservatives used as a talking point for a few weeks until liberals pointed out the absolute sheer ridiculous nature of the idea, and even then it has still come up) As for vaccines, I say this. Liberals tend to be pro-evolution. Conservatives tend to be anti-evolution. We need to (Those who need to) get a flu shot every year because the Flu virus EVOLVES each year. It adapts in it’s attempts to infect us. Who is LESS likely to believe that the flu evolves and the shot is needed every year, hence who is more likely to be anti-vacc? Food for thought.

    • cable1977

      There are tons of liberals who are anti-vaxxers. It works well for the crunchy, organic, granola eating, anti-corporate liberals. Not all liberals are anti-vax, nor are all conservatives, but anti-vaccine beliefs are one type of science denialism that knows no political boundaries.

      Belief in evolution has nothing to do with it. Instead it’s the fear of government (for conservatives) and fear of corporations (for liberals).

      • Wachinagi

        Agreed that it has no political boundaries, and as stated, not all conservatives I know are anti-vaccine, and none of the liberals I know are, but that is not to say there aren’t any out there. I can see how the “tree-hugger” pot smoking “Gov’ment is bad, man…they are just part of the corporate machine (Takes another hit off the pipe)…man…uh…I’m hungry” types might go anti-vacc, but I tend to think of them as young idealistic burn outs without 2 brain cells to rub together. Just as on the other side of the spectrum you might have the “Squeal like a piggy!” hilly billy types being anti-vacc because “the ” ‘merican” government is trying to poison them an take their land. But on the opposite side of those spectrums, where the “highly educated” from each side are concerned, I see liberals with good information making smart choices. and I see Conservative politicians with higher educations going on record saying so ridiculously wrong, things that can’t even be labeled as pseudo-science, that I have to wonder. If both ends of their side of things seem to be “rotten” of deep does the rot creep into the middle? But for the record, I’m speaking from my own experience. There may be more liberals out there than I know of, and maybe even a few in high positions that are just a wrong. I just haven’t heard of any.

      • cable1977

        I’ve come across quite a number of liberals on various forums. Anti-vax views go well with several other liberal related anti-science beliefs like anti-GMO and alternative medicine support.

      • Willard M

        Alternative medicine is not anti-science. Some may be, but a lot is not.

      • cable1977

        Most of it is. Homeopathy, reiki, most herbal medicine, supplements, most chiropractic and numerous other avenues are all unsupported by good scientific evidence. We have spent billions of dollars on NCCAM, the alternative medicine wing of the NIH, and it hasn’t managed to find any breakthroughs whatsoever.

        Alternative medicine is nonsense. The stuff that works gets incorporated into any conventional medical practice.

      • Wachinagi

        As far as alternative medicine, I simple state that: Alternative medicine has either not been proven to work, or been proven not to work. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that’s been proven to work? MEDICINE. :) Now, Anti-GMO…that’s an issue. Firstly, just from a supply aspect, GMO’s are not a bad idea. I’ve done extensive research on GMO’s and here’s my conclusions: Given the numerous non-biased studies that show a MASSIVE increase in cancer and reproductive issues in animals fed GMO soy and corn, it’s safe to say it’s highly likely that GMO’s can cause these issues. Now, SOME GMO’s in your diet probably aren’t going to have lasting effects, but long term exposure to nothing else…? Probably not the best idea, but given the NEED for food, I don’t oppose GMO’s as a rule, but as a choice for myself and my family I avoid them often enough. The issue is that GMO crops are LITERALLY invading non-GMO fields. Let’s just say, for the sake of argument, that GMO’s are actually REALLY bad for you, but we don’t reach a consensus regarding that “fact” for many MANY years. If the GMO crops have invaded all crops, there will be NO non-GMO crops left. So…then what? We all die from starvation, or we all die from poisoning? Which would you choose? I say grow all the GMO crops you like, eat what you choose, but let’s have some serious regulation to avoid contamination, and clearly labeled food so everyone has the right to choose for themselves. If GMO’s aren’t so bad, I have to ask: Why are the companies using GMO’s spending so many BILLIONS of dollars fighting against the clear labeling laws? Food for thought.

      • cable1977

        “Why are the companies using GMO’s spending so many BILLIONS of dollars fighting against the clear labeling laws? Food for thought.”

        And there’s a simple answer. There is so much misinformation about GMOs and about how dangerous they are when, in fact, there is virtually no good science to support such aclaims of danger. So, companies understand that there is an irrational fear in regards to GMO products and that irrational fear will have an impact on their bottom line. So, of course they are going to oppose labeling because they understand human nature, that irrational fears are only very rarely conquered by facts, one simply needs to look at the survival of the anti-vaccine movement as evidence of that.

        I’m not particularly for or against labeling, but I can certainly understand why companies would be afraid of it. Humans are reactive, fear based creatures and our fear very quickly overruns our ability to think critically, not to mention that it allows us to fool ourselves into thinking bad evidence is good evidence.

        “Probably not the best idea”

        Why? What evidence do you have that supports the belief that long term exposure to GMOs is bad? Your reasoning in your last sentence amounts to nothing more than the very conspiratorial thinking that the above author is writing this article about.

        I think there is very real regulation that should occur with GMOs, for example your point about cross-contamination. I also think the monopolization that companies have in this space is not good. But both of those are separate from the scientific question of whether or not GMOs are more dangerous than any other type of food.

      • Wachinagi

        Agreed that people are panicky animals at best. And while I agree that GMO producing companies don’t want their bottom line to be hurt…doesn’t spending billions of dollars to fight labeling laws hurt their bottom line? As for the science regarding GMO’s, as stated, in small quantities and not the entire diet, they shouldn’t do any lasting damage. The studies I’ve read (All non-partisan) Rats were fed in three pools. GMO Only, Non-GMO only, and a mix of both. In the GMO only group the results were inability to sustain a pregnancy (about 98% of the pregnant rats gave birth to still-born babies, compared to 0% from the non-GMO fed rats) and when the dissected the rats at the end of the experiment, 89% of the GMO only group had massive tumors, compared to about 1% of the non-GMO fed rats. That 1% had small, common tumors. This experiment was replicated at various colleges to confirm/invalidate the results and they found the same thing. In the mixed fed pool, the results were pretty much 50/50. The science adds up to at the very least “Highly likely” the GMO’s have negative effects. This isn’t conspiracy theory at work. As I’ve said, I see the inherent NEED for GMO food, there are simply too many people in need to risk mass crop death by sticking solely to “traditional agriculture”. The problem for me is cross contamination of the two sources, and the growing demand for non-GMO food seems like a cash cow for those companies trying to make a buck. They get to charge more for one thing, and the market is bigger. Most other nations flat out refuse to accept GMO food exports from us, so that market alone is worth several billion dollars a year, not counting those of us here who would prefer not to consume GMO’s. The FDA requires that all ingredients be listed on a package of food, and the food companies fought that for years. Now the fight is to get them to list if they use GMO’s or not. They spent billions fighting this, why not just save those billions, and lose the market of customers that don’t want what they’re selling? Basically the argument I see is that the right of companies to lie to us, or hide the truth from us so they can make money is more important than the right of the individuals to the information regarding what we’re buying. Why are their rights more important than ours? Because “We’re too stupid to choose correctly for ourselves”? Which seems more likely: That companies making billions want to keep making billions, or that all the testing done by non-biased scientists who won’t profit either way is just “conspiracy”? Where is the motivation? I see plenty of motivation for the money makers and non for those who just run the experiments and report what they found. Remember, believing that cigarettes were bad for you was “anti-science” at one point… I can see many of your points as being well thought out, and I applaud both your thinking and your civility in the discussion of the ideas. I just tend to disagree based on my own experiences. I’m quite happy to hear anything else you have to say on the subject: Maybe you’ve heard something I have not, and I can always use more information. Cheers!

      • cable1977

        “doesn’t spending billions of dollars to fight labeling laws hurt their bottom line?”

        Except that they probably aren’t spending billions, they are spending millions. It’s likely a drop in the bucket compared to the revenues generated.

        “The studies I’ve read (All non-partisan)”

        There really is no such thing as a non-partisan study. You could argue that the individuals were not connected with a particular company, but they have their own motivations as well that can be just as damaging to the science as financial ties to a corporation.

        So, the question is not about the motivation, but about the quality and thoroughness of the scientific research. If you have a particular reference to share, I’d be happy to look at, but the papers I’ve read that purport to have show deleterious effects of GMOs are shoddy, methodological messes fraught with a variety of flaws.

        A Pubmed search of “GMO cancer rat” only found one publication by Seralini which has been widely panned for its numerous methodological flaws to the point where the paper was retracted. And yet, despite it’s numerous flaws and retraction, it is touted by those outside the scientific community as proof, as you did above, all the while failing to address the numerous flaws that prevent you from coming to the conclusion that you do. That is the anti-science aspect of GMO opposition.

        “The science adds up to at the very least “Highly likely” the GMO’s have negative effects.”

        No it doesn’t. The scientific community has certainly not come to that consensus or even close to that consensus by any means.

        “Why are their rights more important than ours?”

        That’s an entirely different question than the one I’m engaging in, the scientific question. As I said above, I don’t particularly care about labeling. I see why you would want labeling, but I also see why companies would want to fight it. The difference is that I don’t see a nefarious intent to cause physical harm.

        “non for those who just run the experiments and report what they found.”

        Fame and prestige are quite high motivators. You underestimate the egos of scientists. They are human, not saints. Also, just because you don’t see a financial motivation, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. It is naive to think that the only motivator is money, it shows you’ve never interacted with many scientists. Also, financial motivations are not always readily apparent. Andrew Wakefield’s financial motivation took several years to be exposed. I’m not saying any authors had a financial motivation, but to only pretend motivation for skewed results only exists on one side is false. I prefer to look at the science, not the motivation and in that case, the anti-GMO side clearly fails.

        “Remember, believing that cigarettes were bad for you was “anti-science” at one point”

        Not really. The science itself was pretty clear back even before WWII. There were clear epidemiological links between cigarettes and lung cancer, but nothing similar exists for GMOs, not even close. The problem was the messaging, not the science. Also, I reject the notion that money can change the scientific consensus on a subject easily. If that were the case, then the scientific community would be in full opposition to the facts of climate change. They aren’t, no matter how much money oil companies throw at the situation.

  • mitster

    theres no forward thinkin in someone spouting off on how low an opinion they have of someone else..

  • Aaron Stanton

    You’ve hit the nail on the head!

  • I don’y actually see any specific references to Alex Jones’s ideas here – just an Ad hominim derision. It is extremely easy to cloak your own intentions in the guise of being ‘rational’ and appeal to mainstream ‘common sense’, very safe territory indeed. Where is the discussion of the economic arguments put forward by Infowars, the reporting of insane police extremism and the pernicious political agenda behind the federal move towards draconian methods and the erosion of liberty? Where is the discussion about Alex Jones’s team offering a very real alternative to the daily news -when all the mainstream news teams puts out is vapid infotainment and political reinforcement of the insane ‘War on Terror’ that justifies the dreary roll out of this Orwellian militarism of our Police forces-the demonization of Veterans and patriots? You strike me as being a very superficial commentator, you have not even studied your subject well – or are you one of the many government paid internet writers employed to discredit this alternative discourse? Yes there are indeed some cynical people that seek to exploit the gullible-but Alex Jones is one person actually offering an alternative account – because the mainstream is saying nothing of value, and we live in very strange times indeed.

  • ssss

    Why is it so hard to believe that the government would do disgraceful and despicable things to further their agenda? It has happened many, many times before. Why is it so hard to believe that the government is, and has been, putting flouride in our water since the 1950s? Its common knowledge, now the question is, why? I highly doubt they care that much about the publics dental health and besides, it is known to cause cancer and calcify the pineal gland (which is responsible for maintaining circadium rhythm, hormones, creative thought and intuition). Now why would this be allowed when we are bombarded with ‘what not to ingest’ everyday because some study somewhere linked a food or medicine to cancer or other illness. Seems a little…odd doesn’t it? I rather be aware of potential truths than blissfully ignorant WHEN shit hits the fan. Just sayin’.

  • The Truth Hurts

    You can all kiss Alex Jones’s ass you misinformed and unread zombies!

  • Shell

    The best way to avoid disease and the flu is a good immune system thru a good diet. You can avoid most anything with a good diet.

  • Willard M

    Are concerns re: the corporate control of our food supply via GMOs researched, funded and pushed by large multinational chemical companies really the same as anti-vax or “Chemtrails”? I say no.

    • Willard M

      We know for instance that a lot of processed food is designed to be ‘addictive,’ that highly refined foods are bad for us, that high levels of anti-biotics used prophylactically in CAFOs are helping in the rise of super bugs, and resulting in trace anti-biotics in our own meat.

      So count me among the skeptics who think that corporate control, via fewer and fewer corporations, utilizing fewer and fewer genetically distinct varietals and moving more and more toward mono-culture–all trends related to the corporatization of our food supply, as are GMOs which are being designed primarily in their real world usage to increase the ability to have mono cultures, use massive amounts of chemical additives, and otherwise accrue benefits not to the consumer but mostly to the patent holder, no technology is neutral (as it is by definition applied) it all has an agenda behind it, someone funding it,etc.–is perhaps not the best trend for a livable planet.

  • cable1977

    All the complaints about this article can be summed up in one sentence:

    “Well, yeah you’re right about those conspiracy nuts, except of course for the conspiracy I think is perfectly valid. Then you’re dead wrong.”

    • Willard M

      Until recently people would have thought that some of the stuff Snowden revealed was ‘conspiracy.’ Just saying. I stand by my comments that the increasing corporate control of our food supply, and the shrinking of genetic diversity representing 10,000 years of horticultural work is problematic on many levels.

      • cable1977

        I’m sure you do stand by your comments, but that doesn’t imply that my criticism is inaccurate.

      • Jillian Carleton

        so every opinion you have is the majority opinion? one would be inclined to question your unflinching trust in the masses or be deeply concerned by your lack of questioning.

      • cable1977

        “so every opinion you have is the majority opinion?”

        Science is not a democracy, nor should it be. Nor are all scientific ideas created equal. Those with evidence and data supporting them are inherently better. The only relativity in science is Einstein’s theory, no post-modern relativism needed here. There may be consensus, but it is collected evidence that drives a consensus, not just “opinion”.

        “one would be inclined to question your unflinching trust in the masses or be deeply concerned by your lack of questioning.”

        Ah yes, but that assumes that I”m simply trusting or not questioning. Nice false dichotomy though.

        I trust in evidence, science, skepticism, and my own ability to critically think and analyze the world while keeping in mind the various psychological biases I am hampered with as a human being.

  • BAHAHAHAHA! This is great. See a post or quote on Facebook you like WAIT don’t share it. Instead chase the rabbit down the hole all the way to Wonderland if you must to find out somehow some way it’s connected to some kooky conspiracy site that’s brainwashing liberals by the tens of thousands. Sounds like the rantings of a conspiracy theorist to me. This kind of juvenile reporting is precisely what drives conspiracies in the first place. Speaking of false fronts what about the fake advertising on Forward Progressives? Go play for the other team, Manny, you remind me of the wackos I used to laugh at on Coast to Coast AM.

  • G Wagner

    Just spent about 1 1/2 hrs. trying to prove your point for The Mind Unleashed. Sorry, couldn’t do it. But found quite a few pretty cool pages. Thanks!

  • Test this

    sorry buddy but working the medical testing business you are wrong on alot of levels. Thank you for spreading more nonsense. But yes, the flu shot CAN and WILL give you the flu. Some just get it a little others alot. …..

  • kuroxan

    This article is terrible. This guy spews just as many unsubstantiated claims as the conspiracy nuts he criticizes. He cites zero evidence supporting any of his arguments regarding anything he talks about. His whole rant basically implies “if you believe this then you are crazy and need to research more”. Oh wow, check mate conspiracy nuts!

    Except Geo-engineering is a very real, very well known activity with many world scientists having expressed concern over long term health implications. Do you know what happens to people when you sprinkle aluminum in the air for forty years? No? Neither does anyone else. Information regarding this activity is available on many news sources (not just conspiracy centered ones) citing various accredited researchers expressing criticism. Does spraying vinegar in the air counteract this process? That’s new information to me and I doubt it. Does the fact that someone else can make it sound ridiculous mean its not happening? No.

    This reminds me of when people were convinced global warming wasn’t a real issue because “it sounded ridiculous/” and then one government sponsored scientist of a completely unrelated field of science said “yeah nothing to worry about people.” completely ignoring the actual field of science that was waving all the red flags until years later.

    In the end it boils down to whose information am I going to have faith in? Governments who have been caught throughout history violating the rights of people in the interest of power? Or a panel of independent researchers and scientists who make little to no money doing any of this research? I get that its comfortable to read stuff from people like this who tell us “stop worrying everything is fine”. I used to indulge in it myself before I started taking a more serious interest. But the simple truth is there are many things going on in the world that are NOT fine. The simple truth is one look at the world around us and we can see that things are about to get much worse. People like this who encourage people to bury their heads in the sand are part of the problem.

    • lancesackless

      tl;dr

    • Hug Doug

      “Geo-engineering is a very real, very well known activity”

      no, it’s not.

      “with many world scientists having expressed concern over long term health implications”

      that bit is true. that’s why these scientists have advocated further study before any attempt at geoengineering is begun.

      there is utterly no evidence of any worldwide geoengineering attempt that is currently ongoing.

      “Do you know what happens to people when you sprinkle aluminum in the air for forty years? No? Neither does anyone else.”

      good thing nobody is doing that, then.

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  • eric

    I’m a paranoid right winged nut and I take offense to the association with conspiracy theorists. Just because I think government will always be infiltrated by powerful men with ill intentions doesn’t mean I think lizard people molest me or that covering myself in crystals that turn out to just be colored glass will “cleanse my energy.”

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  • DJEB

    I had to check the author to see if I didn’t write this. Bravo! This needed to be said (in public) and needs to be spread.

  • lancesackless

    Nothing like watching the insane defend themselves.

  • Jared

    So, worries about fluoride and GMO’s are fringe conspiracies? So those medical journals and doctors who bring up legitimate concerns about it are also nut jobs? I’m sure you are plenty qualified to make that assumption, you scientist you! lol

    • Hug Doug

      certainly there are some legitimate concerns about Fluoride and GMOs.

      however, there are far, far more who are paranoid nutjobs and conspiracy theorists, who have only delusional things to say about Fluoride and GMOs.

  • Shane Whelan

    Motherfucker, your’e a conspiracy Nut if your claiming informative mediums are “posing” as “science and information sites”. Like come on dude, be the intellect you “POSE” as. Your claiming ALL of the conspiracies are delusions etc. etc. Then your popping out some bullshit about how ‘the mind unleashed’ pretending to be a scientific or informative avenue of knowledge seeking so as to “sell the t-shirt” to the far left? And your claiming it with very little substance to back you up. And fair dues you have a neat little site here, but “forward progressive” your not. You see if your just demoting conspiracies and pinning sheer wrong to the ideas of the conspiracy theorists or giving them the “crack pot” label without actually understanding every aspect of their claims for your self, your hardly forward progressive at all. I don’t know if your far right, down centre or what have you… But you seem very closed to a lot of ideas, now i think Alex Jones is a mad man, i think the theory of a reptilian empire infiltrating our military ranks etc. etc. is all bullshit. I’m with you on that, but iv’e done the research, and it’s 50/50 on the truth front, i mean i know factually that governments (especially the American government) lie on a daily basis, fool their nations people, i know that to be 100% true. I also know that there are profiteering agendas from the far left also, but the fact is, 99.9% of any controlling body from media entertainment right down to charities are ALL profiteering. So the fact that ‘the mind unleashed’ maybe too, is no surprise, and frankly, your attempt in bashing their cause is futile at best, your sprinkling fairy dust on magic cupcakes man, your helping their propaganda efforts just by mentioning them, so if you believe in the conspiracy that all conspiracy awareness sites are just masquerading as such for profit, then welcome to the conspiracy nut world my friend. Plenty of notices from sites such ‘the mind unleashes’ HAVE BEEN PROVEN FACTUAL, iv’e checked myself, to be honest though i’m a centre piece, i don’t go on government official stories or the whacked up conspiracy theories, i simply ask my self what my common sense deducts with a reasoned approach, and generally the answer is obvious. I’m an “anti-vaccer” in practice where choice is available, since the alternative medicines I KNOW WORK BETTER FOR A FACT are a posting and packaging nightmare and i can only make-do with what a hospital or a doctor can offer, the trouble is your pharmaceutical companies have literally fucked the ease of access to alternative medicine, and if you believe pharmaceutical companies function on the moralities of CARE and LOVE then your a misinformed tool no better than the nut-job reptilian hunters out there. EVERY pharma-company is a profit organisation whose soul care and purpose is to literally dominate and earn. They (most of them) don’t care what is in their product, what it does to people or even so much as even runs a proper trial to determine the ACTUAL effects, i mean for fuck sake Bayer pharmaceutical company, the people who created “aspirin” also manufactured Heroin to cure the common cold! The entire world is run from the corporate mind-scape, your government, your banks, your local grocery all the way to your doctors, banks etc. it’s not a conspiracy, it’s not some illuminati threat, it’s not reptilians, it’s not info-sites posing as info-sites to create a false world ideology, it’s simple. It’s about 75 of the world most wealthy people who own globally more than half of the worlds wealth bypassing common-sense and literally devising a maintenance system for humanity to abide by so as their profit margins never falter, that is all you need to know. If you believe the heightened clearly deluded conspiracy your an idiot, if you believe your government are really a caring controlling body with your best interests at heart, your an idiot. If you believe that a government is and does what it say on the tin, your an idiot. If you discount the possibility that a heavy amount of events and incidents that have, will and are taking place are not on some level COVERED UP, then your an idiot. So the only reality worth abiding by is the one of sought verification of all knowledge, theory and information that passes trough the sound waves that reach your ears, the writings that touchdown on your eyes and become thoughts, don’t just dismiss everything because to you it sounds maddening. That makes you a bigger idiot than the conspiracy nuts, at-least their open-minded. Your just dismissive and closed off from actualities that clearly have been misrepresented throughout history. And it would do you some good to observe and research and be impartial to all and every form of idealism that you cross paths with before attemtping a judgment.

    • DJEB

      TL;DR. Poorly written. Reminds me of why the paragraph was invented.

      The important thing for you to realise, however, is that conspiracy hypothesists are crackpots.

  • Dr. Rice

    If you still trust the authorities after learning about Operation Northwoods, you are just deluding yourself that your elite care about you.

  • Zephyros California

    Ok. Look. There is nothing batshit crazy about the fact that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US, and people all over the world, see chem trails in the sky that are purposefully left there. They are not just random exhaust from planes. You see them criss crossing the sky all the time. They’re seen all over the world each and every day. The craziest one I saw was from 2010 here in San Francisco. It was the SF Giants World Series parade. The entire Bay Area seemed to be there, over 1million. It was a very warm day with little to no wind. Half way during the parade I looked up at the sky. It was a very clear day yet there were these two ENORMOUS chem trails criss crossing downtown San Francisco… in an otherwise clear sky. These were the biggest and most pronounced I’ve ever seen. The US may not be spraying it’s citizens with vaccines or anything else, but the question DOES remain: what are these being used for? It IS a conspiracy of some sort. I notice chem trails mostly on warm, clear, windless days. Don’t tell me it’s cloud seeding either. This one conspiracy is still not answered by anyone. I really don’t think it’s batshit crazy to question what the hell these are.

  • mothernatureearthmom

    Why does Manny Schewitz thing this junk is aimed at people on the left, or that the left believes it? I don’t see it.

  • J dogg

    lol, immunisation does work mostly… but its about the choice, if you don’t want it/believe in it then why should you be forced to have it! Which is whats happening in most developed countries. I got the best immunisation against chicken pox, mumps measles! I actually got those infections as a child so now im sorted for life. As for flu immunisations, thats a joke, just eat healthy food, (non processed, no GMO etc) and get regular excise and you will be sweet. I think the flu is a natural process that actually cleans out your body of old cells etc, not a bad thing to have 2 days off work and chill, catch up with game of thrones etc. then get back to life after feeling 110%.

  • Jeremy Rawley

    This is why we need to make anti-science rhetoric a crime. Nobody ever has the right to spread pseudoscience nor to believe it. If a cherished idea fails a well-designed test, you don’t have the right to believe it anymore. Renounce your beliefs or report to a FEMA camp for reeducation. Only smart people deserve to rule and everyone else must step back as per the science clause in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution.

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  • Elizakei

    I wonder why this article is specifically bashing “The Mind Unleashed”. Scrolling through the past month of that page, which I like (my son is current on his vaccines btw), I saw good articles on signs of heart attacks in women, aspartame in kids vitamins, wind power, sustainable farming, meditation benefits, detoxifying foods. Saw nothing about Chemtrails or anti-vaccine propaganda. If those, and other questionable theories are what the page wants to promote, they are doing a bad job.

  • Altreg01

    I always thought liberals were mostly smart enough to not be fooled by dumbass conspiracy theories, that only conservative believed everything they read. After all if its on FB it Has to be true.

  • S.D.

    Good read and very true.

  • Wilko Schutzendorf

    I have seen the mind unleashed liked by friends of facebook. I found it a bit woo like.
    But I have a huge problem with this article. If you call someone anti-semitic, you got to back it up. Link to the anti-semitic article please. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was true, but your word alone doesn’t help.

  • Caleb Disorda

    America needs a vaccine for liberalism.

  • Matt TribalJewelry Moskal

    Conspiracy theories are pretty much the epitome of liberalism. From claiming breast implants give you cancer, to claiming overpopulation will destroy the world by 1990, to claiming pollution will destroy civilization by Global Freezing, I mean Global Warming, to insisting Catholics not wanting to pay for abortion inducing drugs is a war on women while ignoring those who behead women for reading, to insisting America has formed a culture of rape when rape has been going down steadily for 40 years, insisting Israel protecting itself is genocide while ignoring the ethnic cleansing of Muslims killing all Christians in rhe Sudan, Egypt, Nigeria and now Iraq… apart from a few nutty survivalists, all the real conspiracy theories come from the left…

  • Serious Questions

    New to the “discussion” here, but not to the conflict/debate/issue. It would honestly be more helpful to all if people would refrain from ad hominem, as it interferes with discussion that could lead to crucial decision making.

    What’s important is factual information provided by clinical studies and actual scientific research which is not underwritten by companies with a motive for profit at all costs. (a concern that I as a current anti-vaxxer have contended with) More about that in a paragraph below.

    There is a lot of misinformation that one has to wade through. It doesn’t help when people get down on “anti-vaxxers”. Some of us thought we were doing our research and homework to protect our own children at all costs, not due to “conspiracy theories”. And, it doesn’t help an “anti-vaxxer” to be brow beaten, because it won’t help. I know it wouldn’t have helped me at the time and won’t now. Honestly, I did not vaccinate my children as a result of reading what I thought was credible, scientific, but alternative research. I’m in a state of flux now, dealing with the idea that my child could possibly be one of the ones harmed by a vaccination, he could be that “percentage” that takes a bullet for the herd, and that’s hard to accept. What is important is credible, verifiable scientific research, and the continuation of making “herd immunity” safer for as many as possible. (Still have a 12 year old who has never received any vaccinations except a tetanus after exposure to stepping on a nail, and am presently considering whether to begin vaccination. Please keep in mind that my pediatrician is a conventional medical professional who administers vaccinations, not an “alternative” doctor.

    Are there ways to determine if a person has an auto-immune disorder early on so harm can be reduced? My brother is 51 years old. It was discovered when he was a child that he had allergies to egg yolk, and therefore wasn’t able to have certain vaccines. What is being done to reduce the harmful factors of vaccination? (I’m looking for real, scientific answers here,so please don’t reply if you don’t have real, verified answers with links to research).

    My grandson who was just about 2 years old at the time, and hadn’t been vaccinated up to that point, got a whole series of vaccinations in one fell swoop and ceased talking completely, his last word being “help” after receiving the vaccinations. He is now recovering, and is progressing in his speech. He was underweight and probably nutritionally compromised at the time of the vaccinations. What went wrong? Could that have been avoided if the doctor was wise enough to look at his body weight and held off until he was in better shape? What happens to that doctor? Only doctors and scientists need answer, please, so if you’re not that, or can’t point to credible answers, please don’t respond and waste my time and the time of others who are truly seeking answers. I’m willing to give up any pseudo science that is thrown my way and that I’ve bought into, seriously.

    What I’m honestly asking is, is there a way for medical professionals to pre-screen individuals for possible complications BEFORE applying the one-size-fits all approach? 20 years ago when I chose not to vaccinate my daughter, my pediatrician, who is NOT an “anti-vaxxer” made me aware that the schedule for vaccinations is for the convenience of the doctor, it just makes it easier. Maybe his answer was anecdotal? I don’t know. He certainly did not advise me to not vaccinate, and did advise me to do so, but since at that time I had to sign a WAIVER for certain vaccinations, to release from harm, he couldn’t force me to sign the waiver and vaccinate.

    I don’t know if this is an applicable analogy, but we give infants analgesics like aceteminophen and ibuprofen based on body weight, because they are specifically dosed for approximate body weight. Are these factors that should be considered in vaccination? Does a child HAVE TO receive 6-8 vaccinations in ONE VISIT??? I don’t think there is a “one-size-fits-all” answer here, and that is a problem that many of us face. We don’t want our children, or yours, for that matter, to be a statistic, but we all are statistics in some way, shape or form.

    I think one of the aspects I have to deal with is not that there are massive conspiracies to harm my child by some government agency, but that there is, and always has been corruption and misrepresentation by those who are motivated by profit and power, and I am sure that pharmaceutical companies are not magically exempt from this all too human issue.

    I haven’t said everything I wanted to say here, or address, but I think it represents some critical issues. I know I’m asking a lot of questions but I want to paint a picture of the questions this current anti-vaxxer asks themselves, and is asking. These are serious, credible questions and I am looking for serious, credible replies. It’s hard to change my mind, though I am an educated, degreed and well read person, who has changed my mind about a number of issues once credible information was presented. I’m not a scientist or a medical doctor but a parent, a grandparent, a mom, with my child’s best interests at heart. And, once again, if you can’t answer the questions accurately, please be respectful and sincere, because my questions and comments are respectful and sincere.

    Thanks for reading and your respectful replies.

  • Serious Questions

    Duh, I just realized that I was responding to an anti-vaccination conversation that started here as a result of this article, somewhere in the comments…if those who were part of that conversation care to reply that would be appreciated! If not, then onward and upward and have a great day!

  • Many of the quotes attributed to various celebrities and famous historical personages are fake. I never take seriously those images with superimposed text. Sometimes, I get irked enough to research and debunk. But I can’t dedicate my life to it.

  • Melinda Hailey

    This article was not forward, progressive, or backed by any facts, sources, or creditable scientific study citing. I thought of a number of things about which to comment, but after reading the comments below I have nothing new to add. Well, except that I am un subscribing to this site. You have just done what you accuse others of doing. Shame on you.

    • Tonka

      Took the words right out of my mouth

      • DJEB

        It shouldn’t have.

    • DJEB

      It presents arguments against a few sites, including The Mind Unleashed. It correctly cites the audience reach, and the sort of articles they post.

      Furthermore, this article is not making any scientific claims so they would not need to cite any scientific sources backing those lacking claims, obviously.

      To say that stories like the “Amish don’t vaccinate” have been debunked does not need a PubMed citation. If you make a scientific claim that argues against the scientific consensus, then you need to present a logical argument and sufficient, credible evidence to back that claim. You don’t need it to say something like “anthropogenically-produced CO₂ is a greenhouse gas.”

  • Shelley Jones Beek

    Hey, thanks for the article. I haven’t seen this Mind Unleashed site before. Didn’ t see any of the stuff you talked about just a lot of other great stuff so I liked the page. If any of the info you mention shows up I trust my ability to discern. I don’t have to throw out the baby with the bath water.

  • hmc8432

    “There’s a sucker born every minute”

  • J.E.Escoffier

    Adblock plus works very well.

  • Eli Kopras

    Is it ironic that this page is criticizing The Mind Unleashed website for irresponsible advertising when this site hosts irresponsible advertising?

    • Tonka

      I found that ironic as well

  • Psykotik_Dragon

    …Or you can just like/share a pic you find funny…there’s always that too…

  • Changes

    I agree with Eli Kopras.

  • Changes

    I’m confused about this comment area — I posted something in response to this article about an hour ago and it seems to have disappeared. Then I responded to someone else’s comment a few minutes ago and I see my response, but not ‘his’ comment to which I was referring. Someone please help me understand this comment area. Thank You!

  • Changes

    Sorry, I do that I need to sort by ‘newest,’ in order to see the comment I was referring to, but I still don’t see where my original comment in regard to this article is. Again, seeking help. I sorted part of it out, but the original comment has disappeared and I’m confused about that. Thank You!

  • Tonka

    I don’t think this post is very valid.
    I can understand that not everyone claiming this is correct.
    But, the author of this article is only badmouthing people. And pointing a finger at the ideas or facts about something without any evidence for your egotistical rebuttals does not make you right either.
    How about you take a look at the big picture and connect the dots yourself before you go and make your claims.
    And this goes beyond politics, beyond religion, beyond healthcare.
    We are the universe.
    There is much to learn.
    Don’t assume you know things without taking a step back and look at it from the outside in.

    • DJEB

      I’m not sure what you think medical researchers are doing when they investigate things, but I can assure you that is involved a great deal of careful dot connecting.

      You are right, though. There is much to learn. That is why they keep on researching.

  • cactusue

    Totally disagree with this article Alex jones and Mike Adams tell the truth vs mainstream media mind control and propaganda

    • cactusue

      This the first time to this site. What a propaganda rage sheet and why I am independent and search for the truth. It just screams and polarizes of course they all do to some extent.

  • gc

    So… What you’re statlng is that you have a conspiracy theory thay The Mind Unleashed is engaged I’m some conspiracy to disseminate anti-progressive conspiracy theories… Were you trying to be meta, ironic, or just unaware?

  • guest

    It seems like a lot of you are assuming the unvaccinated are always getting sick, this is just not true, they build up their immune system. It is almost always the vaccinated who come down with something. How can they catch something from the unvaccinated who are not spreading germs.

    • Mario

      Certain germs are too risky to build up an immunity against the old fashioned way because of how virulent they are. Smallpox did not just evaporate into thin air overnight. Vaccines eradicated it. So if you honestly believe that the unvaccinated are not spreading germs even though whole colonies of antivaxxers have caused outbreaks, then you’re an idiot.

    • DJEB

      You have a very poor grasp of mathematics. Very poor.

      If 99.990% of the population is immunized, they will contract the majority of the instances of a disease because no vaccine is guaranteed to be absolutely 100% effective.

      What is instructive is the rate of illness occurring in the immunized verrsus the non-immunized. Look into that and you will find that those who are not immunized contract a given disease at a higher rate.

      Also, your assertion that the unvaccinated are not spreading infection is ludicrous.

  • Dwayne Gresham

    The flu vaccine has given me the flu on a couple of occasions. How? The virus in the vaccine is SUPPOSED to be dead. Sometimes they don’t accomplish killing all of it when they make the vaccine. It’s not a “conspiracy.” It actually happens. Also, I agree on the chemtrails…just dumb. It would be very easy for any person to take samples of the soil that these chemicals would have fallen on and have them tested at a lab. Labs that do this testing are private businesses, not government labs.

    • DJEB

      The live attenuated nasal spray vaccine can present very mild symptoms in some individuals, but the attenuated virus cannot survive in the lungs. The inactive vaccine contains a dead virus – full stop.

      Flu vaccines do not offer 100% immunity, and the bodies immune system needs 2 weeks to achieve humoral antibody levels sufficient to provide immunity. In this latency period, one can contract the flu and become ill.

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  • Tazewell Reed

    you are assuming that this site doesn’t meet your own terms for “Crackpot”, I used to think otherwise till I Learned of this sites “sellout’. yeah they are NO Conspirators altering facts for their own agenda’s. In this case Killing the messenger wouldn’t be a bad idea People always need to be VIGILANT against Conspirators the world is full of them.

    • DJEB

      If you has some non-derpsite evidence, share it.

  • 21stcenturyquaker

    Here’s quote from Mind Unleashed: “The textbooks our children read are printed by companies who, ultimately, are Zionist owned. What are the chances that a Zionist view” Holocaust deniers? They are publishing full blown anti-Semitists.

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  • Alex

    Actually, very few posts on “The Mind Unleashed” are intended to sell a product, as a little over 99% of their posts are simply pictures and blogs. Only OCCASIONALLY will you find a blog intended to sell and, in my opinion, some of which are worth buying. Some people spend $50 on a pair of pants and lunch, I bought a $50 portable solar panel that works awesome. Furthermore, the concern with the flu vaccine is the high levels of thimerosal. Surely a science website like this can’t deny that thimerosal is not harmful to the human body and brain.
    Also, the majority of people on “The Mind Unleashed” are not Alex Jones or even think that Alex Jones is a rational human being. A conspiracy is a wrong doing or a crime/potential crime without hard evidence. On a small scale, plotting to murder somebody is a conspiracy; it happens everyday. Once there is evidence pointing to the murderer, it is considered a crime. Surely you can’t say that people in high office don’t commit crimes and cover it up-no rational person would. Remember that almost everything is a conspiracy before it is a crime (ex. Watergate).

  • ricky jr

    pontypool

  • George Washington

    This site is worse than those mentioned in the article. Should be called backward regressive. The average person is soooo unaware and uneducated apparently. Manny says it like he thinks it is: he is just wrong.

  • Brian Bentley

    Such strong and condescending language in this article. Sounds like fear to me.

  • spreadthelight

    what a total moron that write this article. Must be on Obama payroll….what a douche bag human being.

  • spreadthelight

    wrote

  • Ryan

    The most despicable thing coming from these sites at the moment is alternative remedies for Ebola. There’s a NN “article” about how ultraviolet light kills Ebola and I’ve even seen it pop up on my FB from people I know. People take this rubbish seriously and can die. It should be a criminal offence in my opinion.

  • Giovanni Campanella

    Any page that uses appeal to emotion as the foundation for their content is highly suspect of government propaganda. Too much cable news and not enough time outside of public education.

    There is not much that is black and white in this; sure there are those that take these ideas to the extreme, but to act like that represents all of the argument is foolish.

    Anyone one that uses the word ‘cult’ or ‘crackpot’ is one of the people. They don’t see how the government, with it’s flags, parades, marches and use of force to support their ideas and control those who disagree is ironically a cult.

    This OP is pure sophistry and appeal to emotion, not to mention straw man fallacy galore.

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  • wishinforbetterdaysahead

    If you go to the sites calle what in the world are they spraying or Why in the world are they spraying, people around the globe post pictures daily of their sky. Sorry folks those younger than 40 who spend most of their lifes indoors watching videos, talking on cell phones and playing on their computers, probably have never laye in the grass and watched the skies above. I am in my 50’s and have always watched the clouds and storm clouds. These con trails are not normal. Do your own research. You will see the military an HARP have been toying with climate change and weather manipulation since before the Vietnam War. Infact they plan on owning the weather by 2025, and that is a fact you can find when you research. They have added new names to strange clouds and many old weather books can no longer be found in public libraries. Fact….. There can be no denying the photos from amature photographers that are not photoshoped. There can be no denying a push for a one world Government led by the elite of the world. U.N. sustainability aka Agenda 21. nor any real argument that the global “Climate Change” blames the damage to our environment on the people and over population. Do your own research this writer hopes you are just a sheep that will fall into line with harsh words

    • Alex

      We were taught about condensation in high school. Probably wasn’t on the curriculum back when you were at school.

  • Shane Beaufait

    what a bunch of dummies.

  • Johan Seed Launo

    Haha this is the typical shit that comforts the sheeple. Fortunately it’s not gonna stop the actual people from raising awareness. Manny SCHEWITZ (filthy nazi progeny) is simply doing his job. This ridiculously late in the game you’ve either already allowed yourself to wake up to the truth, or keeps your illusions alive through bullshit like this.

  • Ima Zoom

    I was subscribed to the mind unleashed but unsubscribed after this, was considering it since they post a lot of spiritual-woo bullshit. God knows why I followed in the first place… must’ve been drunk.

    Other fringe ideas promoted by nuts include Vitalism, ‘free palestine’, and deepak chopra’s babble.

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  • Eric Marshall

    This reads like a conspiracy theory about conspiracy theorists….

  • Modern science indicates that ingesting fluoride is ineffective at reducing tooth decay, is harmful to health and a waste of money Fluoride is neither a nutrient nor essential for healthy teeth. Like all drugs, fluoride has adverse side effects which are revealed in peer-reviewed scientific journals See http://www.FluorideAction.Net/issues/health

    Consuming a fluoride-free diet will not cause tooth decay. Rotten diets make rotten teeth a no amount of fluoride can fix or change that

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  • Hodor?

    I liked that page thinking it was a skeptic type page and upon further inspection it turns out it’s pure woo, nothing but complete bullshit! I hope none of my friends caught me liking it, how embarrassing.

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  • Chiel Wieringa

    I have read a lot of crazy conspiracy theories, but this must be the craziest of them all. Thanks for the great laugh though.