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We Must Stop Allowing Far Right Conservative Christians to Dumb Down and Radicalize This Country

louie-gohmertThey believe that “God speaks to them,” that laws should be taken from religion, that homosexuality is a sin, that women shouldn’t have control over their own bodies and that all other religions besides theirs are wrong.

Oh, I’m talking about Islamic radicals, not conservative Christians.  Though I could see how someone might confuse the two.  They do have striking similarities.

Kind of ironic, isn’t it?

Especially when you consider that many conservative Christians loathe Muslims – all Muslims.  See, to a good deal of them, all Muslims are “Islamic radicals.”  Though I’m sure many of them are unaware that there are more Muslims found in south and southeast Asia than the Middle East.  But I doubt many of them are “alerted” by someone they meet from Indonesia.

And while Islamic radicals do pose a threat to the United States, mostly from afar, many conservative Christians pose a threat to this country domestically.

These people, empowered by the tea party in the last few years, are doing everything they can to dumb down this country and turn it into some kind of theocracy.

Instead of having debates on how to combat climate change, we’re stuck trying to convince tens of millions of people that God didn’t use a tornado to “punish” sinners.  Instead of figuring out how to make the United States a world leader in math and science, we’re debating whether or not the story of Noah’s ark should be in the chapter following the mapping of human DNA in science books.  Instead of embracing some of the most educated and intelligent among us, millions of Americans would rather listen to a bearded redneck from backwoods Louisiana tell them how the United States needs to be more “godly.”  And somehow “being godly” seems to mostly revolve around a strong disdain for homosexuals.

It’s absurd.

When we have a debate about science in this country we shouldn’t have to spend time debating someone who thinks the Flintstones is a documentary, believing that humans and dinosaurs roamed the Earth together just a few thousand years ago.  But that’s exactly what we’re having to do.

The vast majority of the world’s scientists agree that humans are causing climate change, a fact that’s really indisputable at this point.  Well, unless you’re one of the Christian conservatives who believes that God determines the weather or ridiculously tries to claim that the world is cooling – not warming.  That’s the funny thing about a lot of these climate deniers.  Half of them admit that the world is warming but say that it’s “natural,” while the other half tries to claim that the world is actually getting colder.

Meanwhile nearly every climate scientist, and most people who actually believe in science, think both groups are complete idiots.

The same goes for our Constitution.  These people continue to claim that this nation was founded on Christianity, yet the word “Christian” doesn’t appear even once in our entire Constitution.

And no, pointing out the reference to “the creator” in the Declaration of Independence doesn’t “prove” that this is a Christian nation.  These people don’t seem to understand that the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution are two completely different things.

And let’s face it, when it comes to homosexuality, if they had their way it would be illegal – just like it is in many Muslim countries.

I often get emails from conservatives telling me that I don’t “show them any respect” in my articles. And they’re right. I used to, but I can’t anymore. Not too long ago I actually engaged in far more debates with conservatives than I do now. But many of the ones I encountered had become so ridiculous that I simply couldn’t take them seriously any longer.

When I say to someone, “Well, essentially every astrophysicist agrees that (fill in the scientific fact)” and their response is, “Well, the Bible says…” I usually just toss my hands up in the air and walk away.  To me, that’s like discussing something in English with someone who only speaks Chinese. We’re not going to get anywhere because we’re not speaking the same language.

But the thing that bugs me most about their ignorance isn’t that they believe in this nonsense, it’s that their stupidity is taking the United States down with them.  While the rest of the world is pumping out more engineers and scientists, we have tens of millions of people who believe getting an education is tantamount to “liberal indoctrination.”

They literally believe that education has a “liberal bias” essentially because facts don’t often support their ideology.  To most people, that might lead them to question whether or not what they believe is accurate.  But not to conservatives.  Oh, no.  To them, if facts don’t corroborate their ideology, the facts are wrong or biased.

And they’re only getting worse.  But miraculously they’ve managed to do one thing: They’ve added a new kink in the theory of evolution by somehow managing to get dumber over time, not smarter.


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Allen Clifton is from the Dallas-Fort Worth area and has a degree in Political Science. He is a co-founder of Forward Progressives, author of the popular Right Off A Cliff column, and an unapologetic Hillary Clinton supporter. He is also the founder of the Right Off A Cliff facebook page, on which he routinely voices his opinions and stirs the pot for the Progressive movement. Follow Allen on Twitter as well, @Allen_Clifton.

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  • http://linkavengers.com Annie Layer

    This is so truly true. I cannot respect anyone who does not use facts or logic in looking at any issue.

    • Andrew Hagan

      Then I am surprised you find this to be true as there were none used, not to mention the writer contradicted himself by participating in all the wrongs he claimed the opposition to be so wrong in doing. Not to mention using a racist bigoted statement comparing to the Chinese. I think if you tried you’d find plenty of ways to communicate beyond a language with a fellow human not to mention they might even be bilingual.

      I am not Christian but I’m a gay rights conservative. I think you’d be surprised how many are and are even still Christian before you go lumping me into the uneducated pile.

      • NICKY DISKO

        if you think gay people should have different rights than normal people, you are uneducated. maybe you went to school, but your uneducated about sociology, and being.

      • Todd Fasnacht

        Nicky, is there any set of sexual behaviors that you think should have different rights? Are you good with pedophils, necrophiks, etc.? If so, you are guilty of exactly the same thing, you just choose to draw the line a different place.

      • bloomington333

        It is comments like these that make me worry about the future of this country. The sexual behavior between two consenting adults is not the same as the behavior of a pedophile or necrophiliac and you know it. Pedophiles have sex with children and necrophiliacs have sex with dead people. Two consenting adults who are not harming anyone should be able to do whatever they please in their bedroom, and if they choose to marry, should be allowed.

      • Todd Fasnacht

        So you do belief society should limit sexual behavior. That was the question. You said there should not be different rights for different people, and now you have reversed your opinion when confronted with specific behaviors that you don’t agree with. That’s the issue, the core issue. Should society limit sexual behavior, you seem to agree it should and you want your opinion about where to draw the line, ‘two consenting adults in private’ to be the standard everyone accepts. How about a little tolerance for those who don’t agree with your personal opinion about where the limits should be set. That’s my issue, people who can’t say, we disagree on where to draw the line, but rather, I’m right and you are a bigot.
        My immediate complaint about your definition is two. Why two? What business is it of yours if someone is into 3 or 4 or more. Why do they deserve different rules? Who defines adult? Who defines consent. My children as young as 10 were required to ‘give consent’ before they could participate in certain sports. Does that make 10 the age of consent?
        The behaviors of one ‘phi’ or another are not different accept in your mind. You have decided where you want the line drawn and your are intolerant of anyone that doesn’t agree with you, and that’s the problem.

      • Katie Weller

        You’re changing this whole issue to make it seem as if anyone who supports a same sex union supports all sorts of other things. The core issue isn’t setting limits on sexual behavior it’s FREEDOM. And as US citizens or even citizens of the human race, we are entitled to it. So feel FREE to keep being ignorant, it’s a FREE COUNTRY after all.

      • Todd Fasnacht

        Katie, freedom means supporting all those other things. That’s the point. If you want same sex Freedom, but not plural sex freedom, or public sex freedom, you are simply picking whose freedom you want to limit.

        That is the purpose of my post, to make people think.

        tf

      • Joe Justice

        But in public sex freedom you are protecting the general public, including children, from witnessing an act that they may not wish to witness. You are protecting their rights to be free of being forced to witness a sex act.

        And if by “plural sex” you mean sex between multiple persons, this is not illegal as long as it is between consenting adults. The police do not raid orgies unless they have evidence children, animals, or dead people (or drugs, I suppose) are present. Plural marriage is a different topic and has more to do with definitions of family and inheritance rights and other more financial based reasons. Personally, if 12 people wish to marry into a “family,” I don’t care. But these days it would probably be easier if they did it from a business perspective of forming a business partnership between the parties and then just all have sex together.

      • Todd Fasnacht

        Plural comments were in response to someone defining acceptable as 2 consenting adults in private. I wasn’t creating a definition, I was responding to someone else’s very narrow minded definition. A narrow minded definition that was being held up as open minded and inclusive.

      • Todd Fasnacht

        I want to thank everyone for proving my initial point. You all seem to strongly agree that society should limit sexual behavior. The only point of disagreement is where that line should be drawn. You all have aspect of sexuality that people are born with that make you uncomfortable or out right angry. Maybe the next time someone expresses discomfort with same sex relationships, you will be able to be a little more tolerant.

      • Sean Jones

        If your point is that we as a society should allow people to fuck children and dead people, you need to go play in traffic

      • Marie Noybn

        actually i believe that was the OPPOSITE of his point.. he was trying to show that everyone has uncontrollable feelings of discomfort, anger, even nausea when they contemplate certain sexual acts, and that what acts make them feel uncomfortable are the only real difference between those on both lines of this issue. That line keeps getting pushed farther back though, at one point anyone who considered themselves a moral person knew where the line was drawn, and then the line moved.. some people stayed where they were, others followed the line to see where it would move next… those of us on the front end of the line know where the back end leads and it scares the hell out of us.

      • sevs

        It’s not the same thing..

      • Joe Justice

        Sexual behavior SHOULD be limited when any of the persons involved is incapable of giving informed and mature consent. Children, animals, and the dead are not capable of giving informed and mature consent to a sexual encounter, thus we are protecting them by stating adults may not have sex with them. Children, by their nature of learning and self discovery, are forgiven, in most situations, when it is found they have engaged in sexual play, and even sexual intercourse, with each other. But adults, by nature of their experience and sophistication, are capable of coercing a less mature person and, thus, they are not allowed to engage in sex with children. We draw the line in this way to protect those with little ability to protect themselves until they reach an age at which most are able to make a more informed choice for themselves of whether they wish to engage in sex with someone.

      • Betty Miliano

        The difference is consenting adults, of LEGAL AGE…a child cannot consent, a dead person cannot consent, an animal cannot consent….and as far as marriage that is also consenting adults, of LEGAL AGE……people who are able to enter into a legal contact….If you do not approve of same sex marriage, then don’t marry someone of the same sex as you…Marriage is a legal contract that precedes/predates Christianity….Separate is never equal..You do not have the right to deny a right to someone else that you accept for yourself..No matter what you think, your religious views do not make you morally superior…and you cannot expect others live by the rules of your religion…

      • NICKY DISKO

        thank you sir..

      • Demosthenes

        you are a terrible person for making this false equivalency.

      • Todd Fasnacht

        Thanks Demosthenese, I always find personal attacks as the best approach to creating understandings between people who don’t agree. So you agree with Nicky that different rights for different people is morally correct?

      • Demosthenes

        actually, i agree on what you said later about where the line should be drawn. the comparison of homosexuals to pedophiles is decades old however and it’s a bit over the line, so i have a policy of lowering to the level of the claim in my response.
        all people are people and rights should be universal, illegal acts and loss of rights are the jobs of judiciary courts when an act takes place, in this case acts infringing on free choice by acting without consent

      • Todd Fasnacht

        The comparison is ‘over the line’ because A) it offends and shocks, and B) it reduces all arguments in favor of gay rights to a single hard to define term, consent. I’ll be happy to come back to that, but now that I seem to have your attention, let’s repeat my point. The initial post was a simplistic, it’s not fair/moral/right for different people to have different rights. The purpose of my post was that everyone agrees it’s fair/moral/right to restrict ‘some’ sexual behavior, the only point of disagreement is on which behaviors Nicky’s is simple, ‘two consenting adults in private’. Two men, fine. Three men and your are a pervert and your rights should be taken away. Husband and wife in the hotel room fine, husband and wife on that secluded little beach at 1 a.m., unacceptable. If we could just get everyone to accept that they draw lines and the disagreement is about where the lines should be, maybe we could be a little more tolerent of those that disagree with us.
        Back to ‘over the line’, a medical university (no, I’m not going to go find the article this second), reported last week that the brains of people attracted to young children work differently than the brains of people attacked to adults. In other words, they are born that way. The standard argument for gay rights.

      • Demosthenes

        3 or 4+ consenting adults is perfectly legal, just to say.
        as for pedophiles, violent dissociative schizophrenics are born that way but are dangerous. pedophiles’ actions are proven to ruin people’s lives and that is why their rights are restricted

      • Betty Miliano

        Absolutely, we will continue to protect children, animals, people with intellectual problems and yes, dead people…the fact that the brains of people who are sexually attracted to children are somehow different, does not change the fact that a child is damaged by adults who force or manipulate them into having sex…in an adult homosexual relationship there is no victim…

      • Katie Weller

        You just stand on this false platform because it’s the only one that supports your ignorant views. Anyone can twist words.

      • Todd Fasnacht

        Ah, come on Katie, skip the name calling. Do we treat everyone as equal or just some people? I’m not twisting anyone’s words. I’m demonstrating the larger truth you need to accept to speak those words and it makes you uncomfortable. See you are left with two choices admit you are a bigot who wants to limit some people’s freedom or support sexual behaviors that make you uncomfortable.

      • Idontlikeyou

        Your reasoning is very poor and your argument is flimsy at best. I mean from what I’m getting you are a pedophile. Otherwise why would you go to such lengths to create a ridiculous semantic argument about such definitions. Everyone else seems to understand that the author of the post was making a generalization. If I am to use your logic then it seems to me that you are in favor of rape, pedophilia, and whatever form of sexual activity that humans are capable of. This completely dilutes the argument and has no place within the context of the discussion. I’m guessing you would never actually state your bias though because you have much more fun just arguing semantics with people in regards to a controversial subject. I won’t call you names but I will say that you’re not a very nice person.

      • KG

        they are not different rights for different people! NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO SEXUALLY ASSAULT A CHILD. It doesn’t matter if you’re a pedophile or not, you have no right to sexually assault a child.

        You are viewing it as if a pedophile is entitled to practice his own preferred version of sex, just as so many believe homosexuals are. These are not the same. Because pedophilia is harmful to the child, it infringes on the child’s right to be safe from rape. Homosexuality does not infringe on another’s rights as long as both parties consent.

        To put it simply:
        Pedophilia = rape
        Homosexual non-consenting = rape
        Heterosexual non-consenting = rape
        Homosexual consenting = fine
        Heterosexual consenting = fine
        Three-some consenting = fine
        Orgy consenting = fine

        No one has the right to commit rape.

      • Really?

        These things aren’t the same at all. The former is between two consenting adults, and the latter two (misspelled) examples are between an adult and a child, and an adult and a dead person respectively, neither of which have the right to consent…

      • Andy Pennell

        That’s an ignorant statement

      • Shaun Lindsey

        There is a fine line between two consenting adults and the rape of a child. One doesn’t have to draw the line anywhere. Your argument is illogical.

      • Todd Fasnacht

        There is an obvious line between consent and rape. However where children are concerned our current laws are not worried about determining consent, all contact is defato rape.

        tf

      • Shaun Lindsey

        Well, obviously a legal line must be drawn in the proverbial sand as to when a child is no longer a child and is at an age to make decisions for themselves.

        Once said child hits that arbitrary age set by law makers, then by all means do whatever you will as long as they are consisting.

        However, pedophelia is an attraction. We can’t pick what we are attracted to, but we can choose what emotions and feelings we act on, and there are always consequences to our actions. This by no means makes it comparable to homosexuals. As I stated before that is consensual sex which is LEGAL. Having sex with a child is not legal and nor will or should it be, as they have been deemed unable to make that choice for themselves, and rightfully so! We know enough about the developing mind to know that it is wrong and hurtful to manipulate children into having sex. It can scar them for life, and it’s in NO WAY comparable to consensual homosexual sex.

        tl;dr: DUH!

      • sean

        it is illegal to be a pedophil or a necrophik….that statement was very telling you think homosexuals are in the same category as two illegal acts…i bet your conservative.

      • NICKY DISKO

        its extremely ignorant to compare pedophilia with homosexuality. incase you werent aware… pedophilia can be detrimental to the lives of its victems.

      • Steve Lowther

        Todd, your statement is disturbing and very unenlightened as a human being. You need differentiate those whose behavior is deleterious and those whose behavior is non-deleterious. You may as well be distinguishing between those attracted to people with blue eyes and those who are bank robbers.

      • Sean Jones

        Well, seeing that pedophilia and necrophilia are ILLEGAL, your argument is pointless.

      • Charles Vincent

        It was once illegal to be homosexual just saying…

      • Terry E. Christian

        Being gay is a not a matter of sexual behavior. Most gay people have realized their orientations well before puberty, well before having any inkling of sexual feeling whatsoever.
        Educate yourself in the basic facts of sexual orientation.

      • BackSeatJesus

        Jeezusfuckingchrist, you ignorant, bible thumping asshat, the difference is homosexuals are consenting. Children don’t consent, cadavers don’t consent, animals don’t consent. See the difference?

      • Killgore2025

        You sir win at the internet!! excellent “trolling”. Yes, i see your point, no I don’t think its very “smart”, just provocative.

      • ROFLMAOAY

        “normal people”?

      • June Goetz Lynne

        which different rights are you referring too? marriage would be an equal right, would it not?

      • libertariansftw

        Most far-right conservatives aren’t on the same page for gay rights, hence the specification that he it’s both proponent of gay rights and then typical. conservative beliefs. Also for someone who’s commenting on someone’s “education”, you picked a hell of a time to forget capitalization, grammar, and correct usage of your/you’re.

      • Hot Medusa

        Says the pot to the kettle. Before you scold another person for his/her grammatical errors, you yourself should look at the errors in your own post. The first portion of your comment (“…hence the specification that he it’s both proponent of gay rights and then typical. conservative beliefs.”) nearly makes no sense. I’ve highlighted your errors for you; you’re welcome.

        A little editing and proofreading goes a long way ;)

      • Hot Medusa

        Since the highlighted errors of your comments didn’t post as I thought they would, I’ll point them out to you this way: “…he it’s…”? And what is that period for behind the word, “…typical.”? I’m sure you know that a comma is the correct punctuation to use there…

      • Dave Girvin

        Nicky, if you don’t think gay people already have different rights, meaning less, than “normal people” you’re an uneducated, ignorant idiot.

      • NICKY DISKO

        I dont, so kiss my black ass

      • Dave Girvin

        Being black you should know what I’m talking about, you haven’t always had equal rights, I guess that was before you became a “normal person”. So who’s ass do you kiss?

      • T funk

        I bet your all fuzzy on the 3/5 clause also.

      • Dave Girvin

        Having 3 5ths of a brain like Nicky should only be worth 3 5ths of a vote, it has nothing to do with being black.

      • Whatisthis

        “Not to mention using a racist bigoted statement comparing to the Chinese. I think if you tried you’d find plenty of ways to communicate beyond a language with a fellow human not to mention they might even be bilingual.” You weren’t exactly supposed to take what he said literally when he said, “To me, that’s like discussing something in English with someone who only speaks Chinese. We’re not going to get anywhere because we’re not speaking the same language.” Here he parallels two different languages to those who use facts and logic with those who use the Bible to validate arguments. When one is using the Bible as proof of something, it’s as if they’re using a different language because it’s utterly pointless. The Bible isn’t everyone’s language.

      • Nan

        I’m sorry, I have read this twice and I still see no ” racist bigoted statement comparing to the Chinese.” ???

      • Dave Girvin

        Racists don’t know the difference between ethnic comments or racist comments, to them it’s all about race.

      • Ryan

        You spent the better part of your response nitpicking a metaphor. Seriously. The point of the article was not to say that every single conservative is stupid, and if that’s what you got from it then I’d invite you to take a step back and reread it.

      • Andy Pennell

        But every stupid person is conservative

      • Charles Vincent

        Well they have a lot of liberal progressives to hang with then don’t they.

      • Steve Lowther

        As opposed to what, conservative progressives?

      • Charles Vincent

        No liberal progressives can be and are just as stupid as Andy was trying to paint conservatives.

      • Steve Lowther

        Charles, you aren’t helping your case any. Your redundant term makes you look quite stupid.

      • Charles Vincent

        I don’t need a case, the plain fact is stupid doesn’t discriminate based on party affiliation, or anything else for that matter. That’s a record it took you two posts to start up with ad hominem attacks.

      • Steve Lowther

        You need to look up what an ad hominem attack is, Charles. If it were an ad hominem attack, I would have said that you were stupid. As it is, the redundant “liberal progressive” only makes you look stupid. I am suggesting you should consider another term. However, if you want to feel persecuted, by all means, be my guest.

      • Charles Vincent

        “Your redundant term makes you look quite stupid.”
        That certainly fits the definition of ad hominem Steve.

        “redundant “liberal progressive” only makes you look stupid.”
        As does this.
        Persecuted… Right not even close. Next time just say “I am suggesting you should consider another term.” And omit the your stupid portion. So you don’t have to back pedal like you are currently. Also your “point” is non sequitur anyway, saying its redundant is the same as being a grammar nazi. And liberals aren’t always progressive I know a few that have conservative and even classical liberal ideologies.

      • Steve Lowther

        Charles, you need to get over it. No, it is not the definition of an ad hominem attack. You need to do a little research to figure out just what the definition is. An ad hominem attack is a logical fallacy which avoids the salient points of a debate. I was addressing none of your points, simply that your being redundant made you appear quite stupid. In the future, if you want to avoid that impression, avoid the redundancy. Very simple.

        My remarks had nothing to do with any salient points you were making. What I was doing was criticizing your word choice. This is criticism, not an effort at refuting your arguments. In fact, your claiming it is an ad hominem attack is revealing even more that you still have quite a bit to learn before you can hold up your end of a debate.

        You seem to have grasped a few of the fallacies of debate, but you are still falling quite short of correct implementation. And no, pointing out your misuse has absolutely nothing to do with grammar. Perhaps you need to reach for a better understand what grammar is and is not.

        Compliments are nice, and can be soul satisfying. However, your real character and capacity to learn is revealed by how you respond to criticism. Either learn from it, or feel persecuted and make the same mistakes again.

      • Charles Vincent

        ad ho·mi·nem adjective
        1.appealing to one’s prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one’s intellect or reason.
        2.attacking an opponent’s character rather than answering his argument.

        Steve calling me stupid or saying a specific word choice makes me look stupid is the definition of a personal attack. Hence why I said don’t say it in the first place it negates any constructive criticism you may have been trying to communicate. Either case is a character attack regardless of whether you intended it or not.

        http://carm DOT org/logical-fallacies-or-fallacies-argumentation
        I reference recognized forms of logical fallacy arguments and I check before I speak hardly lacking a grasp for them.

      • Steve Lowther

        Thank you for making my point. Neither definition is pertinent to my remarks. What you stated made you look stupid. That is criticism, not an attack on your character. Get over it. It was true, and you can either learn from it or keep pouting.

      • Charles Vincent

        “What you stated made you look stupid.”
        Saying someone is stupid or looks stupid is a character attack. You can keep denying that but it won’t make it true Steve. Secondly you attacked my grammar which is also a personal attack. Ad hominem loosely translates to attack the person not the message. And another thing stop throwing out new stuff to see if you can get it to stick.

      • Steve Lowther

        You keep chasing your tail. You can’t take criticism, so you will likely keep making the same mistake. It makes you look stupid rather than letting you grow. It is the price of stubbornness.

        Seems you are too stubborn to invest any more effort in you. I’m done.

      • Charles Vincent

        Your criticism came in the form of a personal attack plain and simple. This is bad form there are many ways you could have posited constructive criticism that wouldn’t have come across as a personal attack and it wouldn’t have overshadowed the message you tried to communicate.

      • Steve Lowther

        Charles Vincent stated to Alikhat: “No need. Your pea brain and three syllable words are puerile at best.
        Cry more please and then let me know when your ninnyhammer fades away.”

        Here is yet another term for you Charles: hypocrite.

      • Charles Vincent

        That’s fighting fire with fire all that persons post have been nothing but insults so it’s fitting they get them back. You even though you resorted to insults weren’t doing it on purpose but that doesn’t mean I’d let you skate.

      • Steve Lowther

        Seems obvious your posts were much more offensive, Charles. However, it is your prerogative to rationalize as you please.

      • Charles Vincent

        My op reply wasn’t offensive they however replied with a condescending air and later with blatant insults. I don’t care if you like my method of dealing with people like that. I don’t need your permission. You get treated in the manner you treat me simple as that Steve. Their are plenty of spelling and grammar error ion the internet and on this site yet you singled my post out, why only you know.

      • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

        No, sorry. You don’t get to yell at other people for ad hominems when you engage in them yourself.

      • Charles Vincent

        Actually I can do what I wish and fire with fire seems to be the only thing you idiots understand.

      • Andy Kinnard

        Sorry, Charles, (and, you know, we’re at least acquaintances here; so, keep my “friendliness” in mind), but what Steve wrote was not an ad hominem: If it had been a personal attack, it would be, “You’re stupid “. However, what he wrote was that offering a poor argument makes you look stupid. That’s a whole different deal; it describes the consequence of offering a bad argument but does not criticize your person (in order to avoid addressing the material issues).

      • Charles Vincent

        No worries Andy its all water under the bridge. hope all is good for you.

      • Andy Kinnard

        Struggling with my third significant medical issue in less than a year, but it’s good to be alive! Hope all is well with you too.

      • Charles Vincent

        Well sending some well wishes for you and yours.

      • Charles Vincent

        Redundancy is a grammar issue.
        http://www DOT proofreadnow DOT com/blog/bid/30299/Avoid-Redundancy-in-Your-Writing
        And attacking grammar is another form of personal attack i.e. Ad hominem.

      • Steve Lowther

        grammar —

        the set of rules that describe the structure of a language and control the way that sentences are formed.

        Saying your sentence is redundant has nothing to do with grammar.

        You are making yourself look more and more stupid, Charles.

      • Guest

        If you believe your grammar defines you, then I can see how you’d take a criticism of it as a criticism of you. Most people don’t consider themselves so defined.

      • Charles Vincent

        Do you understand what an Ad Hominem argument is?

      • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

        No. Attacking you would be saying you’re ugly and your mother dresses you funny. Attacking your argument, which was the point of bringing up the grammar question, is perfectly valid in a debate.

        Not that this wasn’t a kind of stupid thing to argue about. I’m kind of with you there.

      • Charles Vincent

        read the whole exchange idiot calling someone stupid because grammar(or Spelling) isn’t perfect is an ad hominem.

      • BackSeatJesus

        Liberal and progressive are not interchangeable. I found this example for you: “A liberal policy towards prescription drugs is one that would throw a lot of taxpayer cash at the pharmaceutical industry to get them to provide medicine to the poor; A progressive prescription drug policy would be one that centered around price regulations and bulk purchasing in order to force down the actual cost of medicine in America (much of which was originally developed with taxpayer R&D money).” See the difference? So, I think one can be either Liberal or Progressive or perhaps one could even be a Progressive leaning Liberal.

      • HomoSapiensMostly

        Well, BackSeat, you win my admiration today. I’m gonna share it to my FB page.

      • Bob19006

        People who call themselves liberal or progressive are living a lie. They are for the most part statists who believe in the almighty power of the state accompanied by the unlimited power to tax others (people, corporations etc.). Back in the days of 1776, liberals said their is no such thing as the divine right of kings, individuals have rights that pre-exist government. Those real liberals today are now called “classical liberals” and are closest to libertarians and economic conservatives today.

      • androphiles

        Does that have anything at all to do with the OP?

      • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

        You can be liberal or progressive and be a statist. The two are not mutually exclusive. Just like there are conservatives who are statist (what else would you call banning gay marriage or abortion? That’s a statist position) and conservatives who are more libertarian. Don’t try to make “statist” equate to “left-wing” because they don’t describe the same tendencies. There are libertarian leftists too. They usually call themselves anarchists.

      • DavidD

        Ayn called ,she wants her cat of nine tails back now maggot and pick up

      • Susan Thornton

        Ironically, conservative policies at the state level lead to more dependence on the federal government: http://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/#barry-rabe

      • giankeys loves shemale porn

        gonna agree with Charles here,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but I hope Charles sees what ” religious” idiots are trying 2 do in USA

      • Charles Vincent

        I agree that some zealots are there. but we should be careful not to paint all people of religion with such broad brush. some seem to want equal protection under the law they just don’t say it well enough for people to see that.

      • giankeys loves shemale porn

        agreed,,,,,but why cant we just have religion IN PRIVATE???? no ads,,,,, no promotion: let RELIGION attract rather than promote– and start taxing them as BUSINESS

      • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

        I don’t agree with taxing religions as businesses. At the most I might agree with imposing an income ceiling on any particular church and if they bring in more than that, the additional amount would be taxed, but to tax every dollar would be an undue burden on the smaller groups–and we’re not just talking Christians, we’re talking Muslims and Jews and Wiccans and Native American organizations and on and on. And it would also be discriminatory because I don’t hear anyone screaming for taxation of secular nonprofits.

      • regressive white trash reli

        tax them to,,,,,but a ceiling based upon means testing is ok w me
        ======================================

      • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

        They say that’s what they want, but what they really want is to use their faith to hurt other people and then cry religious freedom when they’re called out on it. Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

      • Charles Vincent

        No where in the first amendment does it say I or anyone can only practice religion in private. Deal with it its the price of being free. You can ignore it or you can cry your choice.

      • Don Lee

        Then don’t get your panties in a twist when people call you on your hypocrisy and fake persecution.

      • Charles Vincent

        Need some massingil to get the sand out of your mangina????

      • T funk

        Wilson was a progressive and so is Hillary. You like em’?

      • Howard Sands

        Conservative and Progressive are incompatible with each other.

      • regressive white trash reli

        not really,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, white trash regressive religious scum ONLY want to hang with other white trash regressives

      • Charles Vincent

        misery loves company….

      • regressive white trash reli

        on both sides; in all countries
        =============================
        have a safe and prosperous new year Charles!

      • Charles Vincent

        Same to you be safe and may the new year bring you good things.

      • regressive white trash reli

        balance and health are all I desire
        ===============================
        and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, perhaps cowboys doing well in playoffs

      • buricco

        Nah, not every stupid person is conservative – just most of them. There’s people out there who keep an open mind but let their brains fall out – i.e., stupid liberals – and thankfully I don’t think they’re anywhere near a majority of liberals.

      • Bob19006

        Most of the stupid people I know are Democrats! Studies show that half of the people who voted for Obama -Biden cannot identify a picture of Biden. Isn’t that stupid?

      • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

        Which studies would those be? I know of no study that literally asks half the population anything. They ask a sample size, maybe 1000 people at most, and then extrapolate from there.

      • regressive white trash reli

        shall we look at the stupidity of rightwing stars such as perry and Bachmann and palin?

      • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

        No, there are stupid liberals too. And I’m a liberal.

      • DavidD

        Why? because you want it to be so .That’s not being objective or based on facts but an emotional response to gratify your ego.
        All humans by there very nature are subject to error.
        I know lots of conservatives way smarter than I am but I try to seek truth from real facts why they look at politics to gratify their emotions.
        Which is exactly the mistake you made here.
        It doesn’t make you a bad person and it’s a very human thing to do.

      • June Goetz Lynne

        He is referring to those on the far right … yes I’ve had my share of non-productive conversations as well. With well over 50% of the population supporting marriage equality, yes some are definitely Republican. However, if you go to some of these forums and say you are a Christian … you are a Conservative, and you support marriage equality, they will lambaste you from one end to the other … trust me, been there, done that!

      • Melissa Brown

        How is the Chinese thing racist or bigoted? If you think he insulted Conservatives by making them the Chinese in the metaphor, I suggest the racism is purely on your side.

      • Matthew_Bailey

        Missing. The. Point.

      • pHitzy

        So you’re not Christian, but you are against every honest, law-abiding citizen having equal rights. It’s cool that you didn’t need religion to be a bigot; you found a way to do it all on your own. Good for you.

      • godwasneveralive

        Haha your whole life is a contradiction

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        There used to be a saying, “It’s Greek to me.” Translation: I don’t understand. Nothing wrong with using Chinese. I wouldn’t understand someone speaking Mandarin to me. Hell, I have trouble understanding what some people use as English.

      • Christian

        Andrew,

        Your first sentence is incoherent.
        Your second sentence is nonsensical.

        Your third sentence is readable, but disregards the context of the “english/chinese” comparison posed by the article.

      • lindylou

        Typical conservative “thinking”, finding issues where there are none, and perserverating on it – “Not to mention using a racist bigoted statement comparing to the Chinese.”. Really? In other words you are honor-bound to refute Annie’s comment, with nothing.

      • Grand1

        Facts are not determine by a popular vote, Andrew. Facts are facts; provable, quantifiable realites. Opinions, which is what we just read can be held by anyone. We have to agree, as a society, on one reality. We have to agree on the rule of law in the USA. Otherwise, we will all would be able to choose to run red lights at intersections, steal from stores and murder people we do not like. If you don’t like the law, run for office and try to change it, however, you can change facts you don’t like.

      • Andy Baker

        You are exactly the type of person this article is pointing out! Your so frustrating pathetic and stupid! You can’t have a logical debate! You and others like you deserve NO respect! The old children should be seen and not heard comes to mind! The teacher needs to crack you across the knuckles with a ruler and put you in the corner! Until you decide to grow up and stop being a disruption to the rest of the class!
        We should start suing people like you for criminal negligence!

      • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

        Are you white? You’ve got to be, user icon be damned, the way you misidentify racism. There wasn’t one racist thing about his statement mentioning the Chinese LANGUAGE. The only problem I can see there is there is NO one Chinese language and he should have said “Mandarin.” And it’s a good analogy. English and Mandarin are completely different from one another. At least if you’re speaking English and your conversational partner is speaking German you’re going to find some words in common. You can’t do that with Mandarin because they are completely different language families. It’s an ANALOGY because someone coming from a scientific point of view is going to have a completely different worldview than someone coming from a religious fundamentalist point of view. It’s exactly like speaking two different languages, from two different language families. Race has NOTHING to do with it.

      • lindylou

        Now here’s where you have a clinker in your thinker: the reference to trying to communicate with a “Chinese speaker” is not racism. He is pointing out that they can’t understand each other. You are obfuscating the fact by driviling around about assuming a person is not bilingual or understands sign language. This is a typical uber conservative tactic, veer off into some other territory so as to ignore the point.

      • Dave Girvin

        WTF is a “gay rights conservative”? You sound like a “mentally challenged conservative” liberally spread hate and conserving the use of your brain. It’s time for you guys to go hide in a closet.

      • Katrina Soto

        The reference to speaking Chinese was not racist, nor bigoted. Saying that a person doesn’t speak English is just a statement, not a racist remark. Do you think it is? If so, I wonder who the racist is.

      • Howard Sands

        There was no bigoted statement. It was a metaphor of speaking two different languages. Something the author failed to indicate is the blatant twisting of things that conservatives do, like what you just did. Its admirable that you are a Gay Rights Conservative. But you have to admit, it must be lonely.

    • david

      there is your problem. A real man or woman can respect someone for who they are, a human being, not what they believe or don’t believe. We have drawn the line in the sand so far as to say, if you believe in science, then you are acceptable and tolerable, but if you believe in God you are ignorant and intollerable and how much longer before the scientists and liberals get together and make religion and chritianity illegal and export all those who don’t believe what they do. Sounds like a pretty intollerant society. Crazy Christian calling the nice liberal intollerant.

      • rapier1

        I don’t think that is what they are saying. You can believe in god and fully believe in an ancient earth and evolution and all of the other sciences. Believe it or not, evolution was accepted as truth by the Catholic church since the beginning of the 20th century. I believe what the author and poster here are opposed to are the people who use faith as a means to get around the dealing with the world as it really is. Look, faith is awesome. I’m 100% behind it. Faith doesn’t mean you get to make up your own facts about the physical world though. That’s not how it works.

    • The Walking Cuban

      I’ll sit down and listen to what you have to say 1 hour a week, and consider and investigate it, if you will do the same with me.

      • http://linkavengers.com/ Annie Layer

        Listening is always good – so is investigation. Let’s try and see how we do.

      • The Walking Cuban

        Please be my guess and go first. Teach me whatever you want.

  • tariq

    Too Late.

    • Avatar

      No it’s not too late in Vermont. We are blocking every initative of dumb-down education policies by very small number of Christians.

      • Roger Barton

        Shhhh… don’t say things like that, you’ll get inundated with fed-up thinkers from all the red states trying to move up there.

      • Andy Pennell

        Or to liberal California

      • Andy Pennell

        so is California

  • Tim

    It’s almost like you’ve never actually met a “Christian” and have taken all your presumptions from a bad episode of The West Wing.

    • Bob the Builder

      If only. It’s like you haven’t been watching the news for the past 35 years.

      • Brian McCready

        Yeah because News is a truly representative example of American Culture. Kappa. What kind of ignorant counterpoint is that?

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        How is the news not representative of American Culture?

      • Andrew Hagan

        It’s funny you cite bull propaganda that the far right doesn’t even pay attention to nor trust.

      • elfinito

        Yeah — the Far Right does not trust guys like David Barton, Kris Kobach, Tony Perkins, or Ted Cruz, or a guy like Jerry Falwell in the past.

      • Richie Cunningham

        Actually if you had watched the news 35 years ago, you would be worried about global cooling back then.

    • Steph

      I don’t know where you live, but here in Ohio (I’ve lived in several different parts) you can’t avoid Christians. Tell me, where in the US could you possibly avoid Christians?

    • sfwm.son

      oh, Tim. I think everyone here knows these vocal lunatics don’t speak for the majority of Christians. You don’t have to get your robes in a bind. But like religions everywhere, the asses do NOT condemn the idiot fringes for fear they are somehow pointing out the dumbass side of their beliefs. If anything, standing up to these fringe chatterboxes would STRENGTHEN the views of faith and the good it does for many people.

      • elfinito

        And its amazing from the same groups that tend to demand Muslims be more open in denouncing the radical side. (while being blind to any Muslim demonstrations that do just that.)

      • chaserblue

        Then that’s the fault of the majority of Christians that are not speaking up to point out the differences. I keep hearing that excuse “It’s not the majority of Christians, but the vocal minority” Then get louder than them. If you don’t want your beliefs mistaken for theirs, make the differences KNOWN. If you do not want to be lumped in with them, then set yourself apart. Otherwise you have no excuse or room to deny them.

    • Andrew Hagan

      It’s funny how they will preach against ignorance but partake in it. And also preach so much in general. I wonder just how far these people awareness extends beyond what they told to worry about the others in this nation instead of actually being self aware.

      • Andy Pennell

        They “trust” and cherry pick crap from the holy babble. The bible was *written* by men who felt superior and needed to keep the ignorant in-line and scared shitless

      • chaserblue

        The bible was never meant to be the bludgeon it’s used as today. It was simply the scrapbook of a desert dwelling nomadic tribe. It had the laws they used to keep themselves safe in a time where there was no refrigeration, to keep the superstitious in line when many strange things were happening, and to try and explain their circumstances. But leave it to man to take something and run with it until the wheels fall off…
        If you read Exodus with an eye kept toward Velikovsky, he believed that Exodus was not an escape from the pharaoh so much as it was a group of survivors. *IF* Velikovsky is correct, and no one has proven he isn’t—then the “plagues” of Egypt were a result of catastrophic planetary trauma. Something like that is NOT easily explained to superstitious children. You create myths and threats of gods and retribution. It keeps them moving in a (relatively) straight line.

    • elfinito

      The article was about “Far Right Christian Conservatives” — not “Christians”, not even “Christian Conservatives.”

      • June Goetz Lynne

        I think he wrote it so that everyone would understand what he was saying … I thought it was a great article! They say, no matter who you are, to never write anything past a 7th grade level!

    • June Goetz Lynne

      As a Christian, I could have written the above article!!! Yes, yes, I know, I am not “Christian enough for you”

    • suburbancuurmudgeon

      Where have YOU been living, Tim?

      • Tim

        I live in a major metropolitan area and I’m one of these terrifying Christian conservatives that these people love to stereotype. That’s the only identifying information about myself that I’ll give though because liberals are some of the most intolerant, spiteful, angry people I’ve ever encountered in my life and I’d hate to end up on the wrong side of the tollerance litmus test!

  • Austin

    I’m always amazed at how ignorant some of these Christian conservatives can be. If we used my girlfriends moms logic we wouldn’t need medicine to cure disease, just really hard prayer. If we keep letting this disease of religion spread into our politics it’s going to get really bad in a hurry!

    • Terry Call

      They don’t believe in medicines until they end up in the hospital. One of them is the head of PETA, who railed against medicines until she needed them, then they became a “special” case.

      • EdwardDowd

        Exactly!
        Never forget that the founder of PETA declared that “even if animal researched cured all human diseases, we would still be against it.” And when asked about rescuing either a drowning human, or a drowning pig, she answered: “If it was a smart pig and a dumb human, I’d save the pig.” These are all actual quotes from Ingrid Newkirk.

      • Marie Noybn

        “one of them” is the head of PETA… one of whom?? Ingrid Newkirk is as far from being a Christian OR a Conservative as a block of cheese is from the MOON. The woman is inescapably nuts but has nothing to do with this conversation, as far as i can see. And there is NO “disease” of religion, the REAL disease in politics is moral relativism. and in THAT YOU have far more in common with Ingrid than she does with Christian Conservatives.

  • Brocephus

    Lots of colorful language, but very little substance in this article. I don’t disagree with quite a few of your points, but the liberal use of sound bites where you scream out labels turns me off in the worst way, and cheapens your argument. It’s very divisive and should be well received among the freshly educated crowd.

  • sfwm.son

    I don’t think they are increasing in numbers, thankfully, but they do have all the social media everyone else uses to give themselves a (seemingly) much bigger voice. I welcome it, no matter how painful, because they are clearly showing everyone who and what they are. It will doom them in a few decades.

    • fap

      They ARE increasing. This country is fucked.

  • zPAN89

    I don’t think Christians are to blame for the lack of engineers , Scientist used to be the heroes of the 60′s and 70′s . It was a time of exploration and the astronauts were at the helm flying into the unknown, now the heroes we see are decided by MTV. We graduate 6 lawyers to 1 engineer in America ; thats the problem when to many people have degrees in one field of study you have to create bullshit for them to do, so Americans sue the crap out of everything now raising the price of everything because it all requires litigation to get anything done. Beyond that the price of school is out of control people know they aren’t going to get the high paying jobs just because you went to school, I mean how many art school grads have to be stuck working at Starbucks before we get the picture, Fine Arts Degrees are not useful in the normal world. Now we have a whole group of college grads who are underemployed and having to move back home.

    • Kyle

      We graduate 6 lawyers to 1 engineer? Well that just simply isn’t true at all. Not even close in fact. Based on my research we graduate about 45,000 lawyers and 83,000 engineers per year (plus another 47,000 with engineering Masters degrees). As an engineer myself I agree that we need to get more kids interested in science and engineering, but the numbers you give about the number of graduating lawyers and engineers are just plain wrong.

  • http://www.mikemchargue.com/ Mike McHargue

    “They’ve added a new kink in the theory of evolution by somehow managing to get dumber over time, not smarter.”

    Although this is a common misconception, the Theory of Evolution via Natural Selection does not imply that organisms will get “better” or “smarter” over time. Instead, Evolution ultimately rewards mutations that manifest themselves as benign or beneficial adaptations. That means that Evolution optimizes organisms to be *timely*. The Dinosaurs were better adapted to their conditions that we would be, just as they would likely be ill-adapted in our time.

    • Fap

      You totally missread that. Hes saying that instead of getting smarter about evolution, Christians are dumbing it down.

      • Not a theist

        No he didn’t, and no he isn’t.

  • DudeFaceofAmerica

    “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.” Isaiah 5:20

  • Fred funk

    Science is the kryptonite of conservatives.

    • Richie Cunningham

      Science is actually your enemy. You don’t understand the scientific method if you make the claim that conservatives (or Christians) don’t like science.

      • Marie Noybn

        Christians arent afraid of junk science, we know that Actual Science will prove out at the end. And we know that God created science and math as a way for us to begin to understand the miraculous complexity of the world He created for us. The striving for understanding of this is what led many CATHOLIC scientists to many of the great scientific discoveries of the world, to opening universities and hospitals to share this knowledge and put it to work… the idea that Science and God are somehow at odds with eachother is absurd, and is based only on a flawed, fundamentalist, sola scriptura reading of the often mistranslated Bible in isolation from the revealed truth in its other forms. Priestly scientists were basically the norm for many years, the seeming “conflict” between science and faith is based on a protestant misunderstanding of God…my protestant and fundamentalist brothers and sisters rely on the written Word alone to understand our God who is much more complex than any book could explain, that is where they lose ground. There is no conflict, and anywhere you seem to find one is due to a misunderstanding of either the facts, or the faith, not to a failure of one or the other.

  • aintnorest

    The so called “christian right” is destroying their own religion in the information age. This is not the middle ages, everybody has the chance to learn to read.

    And anybody who cares to can read the bible and see how often it speaks against concepts such as greed vs how often it mentions gay sex.

    People can see how selectively this loud minority of “christians” apply their supposed faith…and if people who profess to believe that the bible is the word of god don’t take their own religion seriously, why should anybody else?

    They’ll erode Christianity’s relevance more vigorously then any amount of secular activists could ever hope to accomplish.

  • Leon Carter

    I think your religion is environmentalism and government is your god. You think DC can control the climate with the right legislation? It sounds as ludicrous as

    Christians saying god is punishing fags with tornadoes.

    • Danny Wade

      There’s good science, and then there’s the argument that sounds like a gum commercial (“9 out of 10 climatologists recommend Dentene to their patients who chew gum.”)

      That argument stinks, but so does yours. Saying climate change is caused by human activity (for which there’s hard evidence) ain’t the same thing is saying DC should legislate this way or that. Solutions are a separate issue. First we must agree on the facts.

  • Danny Wade

    I believe it’s naive to think Christian conservatives are the only people dumbing down this country. Let’s talk about the number of people of every stripe who believe in psychics, UFOs, energy healing, therapeutic touch, vaccines causing autism, and even reptilian aliens taking over the government. F#*KING REPTILIANS!

    • James Leno

      You have a good point, and I’m not trying to give them any respect. But there was also a time when saying that all major US banks are controlled by a few corporations, or the government is spying on its own citizens, or is torturing and imprisoning people without trial, those things would have sounded like wacky conspiracies too.

      • Danny Wade

        For those examples, we have hard evidence. The truth has come out. I have no problem believing (always provisionally) a claim that is backed up by evidence of several kinds from several directions.

        My problem is with people who go on believing wacky claims in spite of having no positive evidence to back them up, and often in the very face of contradictory evidence. That’s the heart of the problem.

  • Dave

    I agree. The Romans had it right, We should round up all dumb people, and Christians and crucify them, before their ideas bring us anymore unhappiness Unreal, to think, that to live as if the 10 commandments were God given, and if we all really tried to live like that would help our society, please, get with the times man. We need to decide ourselves what truth is, based upon science, and just live accordingly. We would all live in harmony then. In fact, the world is just only getting worse because of these damm Christians I mean what else on earth could it be? Without them we would all be better off.

    • Melinda Hailey

      Please don’t lump all Christians into the wing-nuts category. I am a liberal Christian lesbian. I believe God equals Love, simple as that.

      • Marie Noybn

        sooo, your only response to that comment is “dont include me in the roundup please!” but to round up and kill all your fellow Christians and dumb people, and Crucify them as other liberals did to Jesus…. that is, by inference, a-ok with you, as long as you escape the slaughter that is??? By the way, while being a lesbian Christian is ok, since we are ALL sinners… being a LIBERAL Christian is an oxymoron. LIberals support the platform of the genocide of the human race via abortion, that is completely anti Christian and cannot be tolerated by anyone who believes God is Love…God is also Jesus throwing the money changers out of the temple in wrath.

      • Melinda Hailey

        Wow, angry much? I said not to lump me with the extremist, hate screaming christians and that I believe God is simply love. And in response you puke up garbage in a snit? Please inform me which Christian denomination you are a part of so I can be sure and avoid it while praying God has mercy on you. You poor child, May happiness and love bring peace to your heart one day.

    • Marie Noybn

      Yet another loving, tolerant, open minded liberal speaks.

  • Todd Fasnacht

    Funny, as a non-Christian conservative, I have a similar list of complaint when trying to talk to most liberals.

    Maybe if we could get past that on both sides we could get something done.

    • mrgingrich

      How so?

  • BenTheGuy

    Strawman, you are arguing against a conservative that barely exists. And regarding the Constitution versus the Declaration of Independence, such a left wing luminary as Ezra Klein thinks they were both written about 100 years ago, and Rolling Stone, a pop-culture magazine that obviously leans very liberal, had John Hancock signing the Constitution on their front cover.

    Ignorance is all over the place, and easy to find if you’re looking for it. Knowledge is also easy to find, but it doesn’t seem like you sought out knowledge, so you didn’t find it. You found what you sought, and then declared you are no longer interested in talking to conservatives.

    A refusal to hear anything from a large number of people simply proves your own ignorance.

  • Matthew_Bailey

    I should point out that it is a fallacy that evolution LEADS ANYWHERE.

    Evolutionarily speaking, the ONLY thing that matters is:

    Does it lead to the production of more offspring.

    Since Conservatism is dominated by Evangelicals, who see it as their duty to procreate, and create huge families, they are fulfilling their evolutionary duties, and in the process, they are dumbing down the gene pool (although even that is questionable, since intelligence isn’t entirely hereditary/genetic).

    But it DOES MEAN that the children are going to be indoctrinated, and then lead to having to devote a lot more effort to undoing this indoctrination later.

    FORTUNATELY, demographic trends show that conservatives are literally dying off. The younger generations, indoctrinated or not, as children, seem to be rejecting the premises, and arguments made by conservatives in favor of fact based policies.

    It will take some time, but we will get there eventually.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/compuaid/index.htm Ather

    Watch Idiocracy. Then realize, it’s a historical documentary from our future.

  • OZ_in_OK

    “The same goes for our Constitution. These people continue to claim that this nation was founded on Christianity, yet the word “Christian” doesn’t appear even once in our entire Constitution.”

    It’s even more basic than that. What kind of ‘Christian’ could look at a country where slavery was legal (and in more than half the 13 states you actually had to be a slave-owner in order to vote), where women had absolutely NO RIGHTS whatsoever, ethnic minorities had absolutely NO RIGHTS whatsoever, underage marriage was considered normal as a ‘Christian nation’? It’s ridiculous on its’ very face.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/compuaid/index.htm Ather

    Read the bible sometime. Nowhere does it actually say how god made the universe. So, how can you sit there and say there as no Big Bang? There’s no alternate explanation provided (form the book with all the asnwers). Nothign like a no, there totally wasn’t a Big Bang at all. Yet still, people swear the bible disproves the Big Bang ever happened. How can you disprove something that isn’t mentioned in the bible, by using the bible?

  • http://www.freewebs.com/compuaid/index.htm Ather

    If god didn’t want men having the butt sex, why was he so stupid as to make the butt hole the right size for a penis to go into it?

    • Marie Noybn

      you are pathetic. And obviously a troll, go back under your bridge and screw a bear, their butt is probably the right size too… see if you manage to live through it.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/compuaid/index.htm Ather

    So, it’s OK for animals to eb gay. OK for insects too. Just not humans. OK. Glad to see the bible proves god discriminates. No wonder his followers like to discriminate. Just following their fav creator. Looks like god is a bad influence on Americans.

  • IsaacM50

    I must say, I found this hard to believe, but then I started to do some research on the far right and tea party and , YEP, dem some crazyfolk in dat dere place!..

  • Gail BrownEyedredskinsforlife

    God would not approve of this.

  • ronkgman

    OK People..pay attention!! Nothing this guy says can be construed as factual in nature!! He stirs the pot for a living, one side against the other, none are so blind as those who will not see..Maya Angelou..(sp)..

  • jessedukes

    Thanks for your thoughts Allen. As a follower of Jesus, I found a lot of your critique painful, but also true enough to cause some serious reflection.

    I just hope you all can understand that “Far Right Conservative Christianity”, is not the way of Jesus by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone who wants to take the time to read Jesus’ words, and get an actual big picture of the Bible can see that.

    Jesus’ harshest words were for religious hypocrites, who preached judgement and condemnation, but who were just as (or perhaps even more) filthy and broken inside, than the “sinners” they were condemning.

    Being a follower of Jesus isn’t about trying to force your way down people’s throats from on high, its about serving and loving people regardless of race, gender, age, sexuality, religion, or political affiliation.

    We believe that God will sort everyone out, and that just because someone claims to know God, or be on His side; that in no way makes them a genuine follower of Christ. Jesus said you all can know His followers by how well they sacrificially love people (John 13:35).

    But also, don’t fool yourself into thinking, “All the ‘Far Right Conservative Christians” were a bunch of A-holes’ will be a good argument before God when you have to give an account for your life before Him, just like they will.

  • Redpill

    I wish folks would stop using the phrase “believe in science.” This makes it easy to equate the scientific method with a religious belief system. Religion by definition requires belief in order to exist. Science is a way of thinking and critically evaluating observations and in no way requires belief to be valid.

  • Jason Bourne

    There is a special place in hell for those radical Christian conservatives. With the likes of Ronald Regan, Jerry Falwell, Margret Thatcher already in it. They are dancing around Lucifer’s room and serving him fellatio.

  • Don

    Take a minute to read your over generalizations and extreme characterization of conservative thinkers. You sound like the people you are criticizing.

  • Salty_Dave

    Americans are screwed up people – ask any Canadian.

  • Joe Justice

    A person can be a deeply spiritual, and even a religious person and discuss heady scientific topics. Science does not destroy the Bible, or the Quran, or the Bagivad Ghita, or the writings of Confusious. What destroys the Christian Bible is when the radical religious insist on taking it so literally that thinking persons begin to consider it not worth the read. By understanding the Bible was written by Iron Age humans attempting to make some sense of a very violent and confusing world but that who were also experiencing some deeply spiritual insights, one may see it for what it is, a guide for helping people behave better when living in larger groups. Accepting it as more mythology and a guide to loving others and even deeper comunnion with divinity allows one to see how it is even supports higher learning and scientific knowledge and does not contradict it. Only by attempting to take the Bible as literal fact put down by the actual “hand of God,” you take something that was only meant to be a field guide and turn it into an idol that should not be worshipped.

  • Taiyo

    My little brother’s Nanny doesn’t know Chinese, but still manages to carry out a conversation with my Grandpa who doesn’t know English. Every day for an entire year.

  • Thunder03

    Just saying but if you go back in history.Yes it doesn’t say its christian in those documents but the people who made them and there beliefs were part of it.I do believe our country was found on some christian belief because thats who they were.But some people take it to far and to say that it wasn’t is dumb.Because if you knew your history you could understand from the people who were apart of it were. Of course not all but a lot.But none the less I do think we should be able to have our religious freedom.At the end of the day the reason part of these problems arise is because we have these freedoms and other abuse the fact of what it is.

    • Sue Roediger

      Some of the founders who you think of as “Christian” were Deists who believed in a creator, a God, but not in a certain denomination or all the dogma. Religious freedom is essential – until somebody’s “religion” does harm to someone. For example , when a parent’s religion is against blood transfusion or medical treatment and a child id at risk of dying the State can over rule the parents and give treatments to save that child’s life. In the event that a religiously motivated withholding of care causes a death the parents are prosecuted. Teaching that the earth is 6,000 years old, that dinosaurs and people coexisted, that God literally made the world in 6 earth days …………. is actually abusive to those kids when they get to a real school and try to advance in science.

      • Thunder03

        Agreed on that for the most part.I still believe that there was a few who were christian but majorly a lot did believe in a higher power.Honestly you can say it will hurt them but thats when you got to get kids to open up to other ideas and thought regardless of anything else. Who knows maybe it was all apart of the plan.

      • Thunder03

        Gotcha and seriously thanks.I never thought about exactly in detail and am learning a little more.So I am wrong.But I understand a little better now.Doing more reading and checking sources.It all makes sense now.A lot of questions I need answered now.

      • Sue Roediger

        Cool … I hope my words didn’t come out too strong. I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic schools. When we learned about Creation we were told the “day” in the Bible was one of “God’s days” and could be a million years. We studied evolution as part of God’s plan. The Catholic religion is different in practice than the Protestant faiths that were mainstream. We were free to practice or faith but not to push it on others. So we didn’t try to get divorce to be illegal, or force “no meat Friday” on the rest of the world.
        I wish you well in your future studies.

  • Joe

    It appears that this article does not designate a separation of conservatives but instead makes a sweeping generalization of them. I do not agree with homosexuality, but that does not mean I hate them. I don’t agree with illegal drug use, and I know some people who use, but I do not hate them. I believe that science helps explain the bible in many ways. And the reason for us not producing more engineers, scientists, etc. isn’t because of conservatives it is because our society has become lazy.
    This article is extremely biased, and full of opinions. Great use of the freedom of speech, but please do not try to pass off generalizations and opinions as fact. This is America and we are entitled to the freedom of religion, speech, and if course our political alignment. I am not saying that Christians are perfect, neither are conservatives, but liberals are not either, along with all other religions. By comparing extremists to extremists you taking one bad apple out of a hundred and comparing it to the other bad apple out of the next hundred. I know many people that are nothing like described in this article.

    • DesertFlower78

      Well said! I couldnt agree more. :)
      Based on what you said, I imagine we dont agree on some major policy issues. But thats ok, differing opinions can co-exist.. Heck, discussion & civil debate between differing opinions can even lead to learning/understanding/& the birth of new ideas etc. We can actually all be better for it.
      Unfortunately, rather than talk about these things like sane rational adults, I typically see close minded extremists spewing vitriol (frm both sides). And instead if sharing ideas, too often all they wanna do is cut each other down. :(
      Its a bummer.. And our nation suffers due to it too.
      I would love to see more frm reasonable respectful mature fair individuals like yourself.

  • Richie Cunningham

    “ridiculously claim that the world is cooling”… You mean like the popular opinion 40 years ago? Way to know your history, sheep.

  • HaydenG

    Who would read this garbage?
    Its just a “Christianity is destroying America” straw man the guy repeatedly attacks.
    You don’t have to be Christian to be against killing unborn babies.. Nor do you have to be Christian to be against reckless economy destroying CO2 taxes in America when China is building a new coal plant every day that makes anything we do moot.
    And if you don’t think the vast majority of college professors aren’t liberally biased you are living in a fantasy world… You’re also living in a world without facts.. because there have been multiple studies confirming the vast majority of college faculty donate to liberal candidates.

    Its easy to isolate yourself from the cold reality of economics and the effects things like minimum wages and high corporate taxes have on the well being of Americans when you are tenured and can spend all day talking about women’s studies or some other crap while the rest of us make the world go round.

    • Sue Roediger

      well — I have observed lately the effect of low minimum wage and LOW corporate taxes is affecting us…………..

      • HaydenG

        And what effect would that be?

      • Sue Roediger

        you know the fact that the top 5% have more income than the rest of the 95%. That people can’t live on a basic job. DessertFlower 78 says it eloquently

    • DesertFlower78

      The cold REALLY of economics are this:
      Increasing the minimum wage would improve the well being of Americans. Higher corporate tax rates would improve the well being of Americans and strengthen America in general. There are numerous examples of this, take America frm the 50′s to early 70′s. (If you adjust for inflation, you will find that that was the situation during America’s most prosperous eras.)
      America began to decline when wages & benefits started to stagnate & even decrease.. And when taxes on corporations & the highest income bracjets got slashed. The economic policies that were implemented in the early 80′s kicked off the decline.. And both these policies & their negative impacts slowly progressed over the last 30+ yrs, resulting in the state of things today.
      And nothing conservatives say changes that.
      If you don’t comprehend, or refuse to accept this, then fine. You are entitled to hold whatever fairytale ideas you have about that regardless of how absurd. But please keep them quietly to yourself & get out of the way.. Some of us are trying to fix this mess. Geesh!

      Ps: The bias you cite is acceptable. It’s rational to be biased towards facts, reality, & truth. — If you don’t like this, then that’s fine.. People are not required to like facts, reality, & truth. But that does not validate denial of these things.. Nor does it excuse any attempts made to hinder the dissemination of that knowledge to others. :/

      • DesertFlower78

        Pss: China has also already vowed to reduce emissions drastically over the next decade.. Not even they are denying the reality of the impact that society & human industry has on our planet! They are still gonna do what they can to strengthen & better their country, understandably. But they also accept the reality of our predicament, & they would like to avoid future turmoil, & spare their country the catastrophic environmental effects of climate change if at all possible. So, they acknowledge their role in this issue.. And have chosen to be responsible members of team Earth by taking on the burden of engineering & implementing solutions.
        (And really, there’s no law which states that environmentally safe must = economically crappy. ‘Green’ can be a profitable industry that uplifts our nation. — The oil & coal industries are only so incredibly profitable now because they are the dominant energy sources.. But if there were more players in the game…. Understand? — Oh, & why ever would anyone suspect them of dirty dealings when it comes to not allowing that to happen.. And who wouldn’t wanna relinquish a profitable & powerful stranglehold on energy?! I mean, how absurd!) :/

      • HaydenG

        I guess you would be one of those people who don’t like facts then because the US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world. It also has the highest average wages in the world.

        en.wikipedia dot org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage

        We don’t have a problem with low wages you ninny. Its jobs.

        Since Obama took office the unemployment rate has been plummeting and is the lowest its been in almost 40 years.

        data.bls dot gov/generated_files/graphics/latest_numbers_
        LNS11300000_1978_2014_all_period_M05_data.gif

        Raising the minimum wage will do nothing if there are no jobs. If you don’t have a job the minimum wage is irrelevant.

  • glebec

    I gave up hope when even the economic crash did not move Democrats enough to consider making the effort to compete with the Right Wing in the marketplace of ideas. The GOP leadership sat down after Nixon left office and developed a long term strategy for changing America – and they have executed it one step at a time. Nothing is secret about it. Books have been written about it – books have been written about what to do about it. For 20 years I have been pounding on every Dem elected official – and nothing happens. I surrender. It takes more than articles on sites that preach to the choir. It takes systematic, planned social marketing of Democratic and/or Populist values and ideas. It takes leadership and collaboration. Not happening.

    • marckohler

      I cannot agree with you more!! The Left in this country never acquired the skill to translate legislation into profits in their pockets, and in the end, those billionaires an billionaires did–the controlled Dems and GOPers to suit their needs, and the computer gave them the ability dupe millions. Thin about it, the 10 million sub-prime mortgages went to 14% after two years. All the bank knew it. Thousands of investors lost millions of dollars buying stock backed by these fraudulent financial products—BUT, hedge funds who bought Credit Default Swap Bonds made $30 for every dollar in every foreclosure. So, when a $100,000 house goes into foreclosure, a CDSB holder is paid $3,000,339 by AIG!!!

  • Bill Healy

    How ironic that an ad for liberty university graces this on my feed, One of the few institutions of “higher” education that validate the conservative mockery of science.

  • LR7410s

    Ironically, this is not the first time religious conservatives have destroyed a civilization; the Muslim clerics, during the 12th and 13th centuries, managed to make scientific inquiry into a heresy – and the civilizations which preserved Aristotle and Plato, mathematics and astronomy, diminished into fanaticism and faith.

  • marckohler

    Too late, too little, and way too meaningless. These deeds started decades ago…in 1972 two born-again-Christians hit on me to “profess” my faith in public just like some bible passage that he read to me…was I ready to confess in public??? Why then?? Well, after the Civil Rights Bill passed and school integration really happened in the South, most white children left public schools and started attending private Christian academies. By the end of the 70s, Christian fanatics made a mockery of Carter’s “American Family” conference, and by then the goals were set. The wealthy decided to use religion as their battering ram of lies, distortions, massive theft, immoral wars, and death.

    • Sue Roediger

      sadly — true

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  • Tim

    Allen Clifton: Future Press Secretary for the Antichrist.

    • Sue Roediger

      oh my Tim ….. I shall pray for you.

  • HomoSapiensMostly

    Please avoid saying that you “believe in evolution.” We all need to understand the difference between belief and observable, testable knowledge. For example, at the moment I think that my new Windows computer is free of malware, and that the older one is infected. I have evidence that leads me to think this way. But new evidence could convince me otherwise.

    At the moment I think that evolution provides a sufficient explanation for sentient life on earth. We short-lived humans have such a poor understanding of what a billion years is like! (My thanks to Neil deGrasse Tyson’s visual representation of this on his Cosmos TV show.)

    • OooShiny

      Perhaps accepting evolution and gravity rather than believing in the sciences could help.

  • bobby

    YYYYYEEEEEPPP!

  • Nancy Ogg

    Getting dumber does not necessarily mean a kink in the soundness of evolutionary theory. It could just mean that in today’s world, “dumb” has somehow become a survival trait.

  • chaserblue

    Wow…can you just say whatever 2 or more “CONSENTING ADULTS” agree to behind closed doors should be completely up to them? Barring anything like snuff films… It doesn’t need to be picked apart. You have no business legislating morality. Not only does it make you look like an fascist idiot, it never works. If it did, prostitution would have been wiped out aeons ago. There are two mortal enemies to freedom, those that try to control everyone and those that will not control themselves.

    • Buck

      There are two mortal enemies to freedom, those that try to control everyone and those that will not control themselves.

      Precise and succinct.

  • Linda Doucett

    all one has to do to see the validity of this post is read the comments

  • Pete Davis

    “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…” – the start of Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli. Unanimously ratified by the Senate and signed into law by President and Founding Father, John Adams. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

  • m sfiorare

    The Republicans:

    #1 Conservative Christians

    #2 Religious fanatics (look at the presidential candidates they presented)

    #3 Want to seriously limit the freedoms of women (till nothing is left ?)

    #4 Oppose equality for man and woman. (oppose equal pay for women)

    #5 Want to redefine RAPE so it can be blamed more to the woman

    #6 Are in favor of a theocracy

    The Taliban:

    #1 Conservative Muslims

    #2 Religious fanatics (speaks for itself)

    #3 Want to seriously limit the freedoms of women (till nothing is left ?)

    #4 Oppose equality for man and woman. (oppose education for women)

    #5 RAPE is always blamed on the woman

    #6 Are in favor of a theocracy

  • Wallace Torbert

    Dinosaurs were not on a boat that using math, physics could not possibly held two of each species and the amount of water vapor in the air in a world flood would have made respiration impossible so all of the animals on the ark would be dead including Noah.

  • me

    im pissed that both sides are sucking our country into this stupid religious war when most of us just want to live and be free.

  • surfjac

    Mark Twain — ‘Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.’

  • Craig Peters

    This pretty much sums it up.

  • http://www.danaseilhan.com Dana

    First off, you’re misconstruing what evolution is, which really doesn’t help your case against creationists. Evolution is not about getting “better.” It’s not about “improving.” It’s about adapting to the environment, including to environmental changes. Not that education is really about evolution–evolution doesn’t happen that quickly–but you could say that in an environment which rewards dumbing down, learning to think like an idiot would be adaptive in that environment because you’re more likely to be rewarded and less likely to be punished.

    If we’re going to encourage intelligence in the population then we have to start rewarding it. Right now we “reward” intelligence with debt slavery and wage slavery and derision, though at least the latter is diminishing as more of us embrace geek culture. It isn’t just the right-wingers being dummies, though, and fighting intellectualism. That happens all across the political spectrum. I could rattle off several subjects that I’m not allowed to discuss in center-left circles because I will be shouted down and it doesn’t matter what evidence I present. The pitfalls of veganism are one excellent example. (If you really believe in evolution, you can’t believe veganism is healthy. Even gorillas and orangutans eat bugs which, last I checked, are animals. Don’t tell that to most liberals though, even the omnivores.)

    Meanwhile, I’m not sure what you mean about “not allowing” conservatives to dumb down this country. I don’t think anything short of military action is going to stop them, UNLESS you start building alternatives. And here’s where I bring up another subject that center-leftists like to shout down: Start listening to the radical leftists. Because they’ve been trying to build new institutions for years and you’ve been ignoring them and calling them crazy. Maybe it’s time you shut your mouth and open your ears and learn a few things. Wouldn’t kill ya.

  • Ryan

    Not sure which is worse. The dumbing down from the far right or the pussification from the far left. Sucks either way…

  • Morgan

    BRAVO! Excellent, spot-on article!

  • Jeremy Rawley

    This is why we need enforced atheism in this country. Letting religious nuts have freedom was a big mistake. It’s time we punished these fucking enemies of American liberty, equality, and state secularism by force of arms. The tree of liberty is mighty thirsty and in dire need of pruning.

  • John Chrystal

    What is driving this is the guidance and monetary support of the evilest of the 1%, who could care less about Christianity, but are really good at using them!

  • Jack Lynch

    Hey has anyone noticed how crazy wacked out Republicans sound when they think they are being smart…SO STUPID! They all sound like the rattle snake priest who goes into the snake pit and claims they will not get bit, only to go down 5 minutes later after a bite!